*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (13 Viewers)

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Or, as my friend who still won't get vaxxed called it, "hot mess garbage from the CDC" :(  

unfortunately, CDC under both Trump and Biden has not been great at communicating.  

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Or, as my friend who still won't get vaxxed called it, "hot mess garbage from the CDC" :(  

Yeah, it's just a recommendation, so if the school leadership (or state-level politicians) don't want it to happen, it won't. 

My best hope at this point is that the fact that there is a CDC rec will at least nudge up mask usage to the point where there won't be peer pressure against my kids if they wear them. The younger one will probably do it regardless, but our older is entering middle school and is in that stage where he's acutely aware of what others think of him.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Yeah, it's just a recommendation, so if the school leadership (or state-level politicians) don't want it to happen, it won't. 

My best hope at this point is that the fact that there is a CDC rec will at least nudge up mask usage to the point where there won't be peer pressure against my kids if they wear them. The younger one will probably do it regardless, but our older is entering middle school and is in that stage where he's acutely aware of what others think of him.

Totally.  But a lot schools, businesses, and people state they are just deferring to CDC guidance.  

 

[jobarules]

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1420043125309980677

Awful. I understand for unvaccinated kids but for vaccinated kids who already had a miniscule chance of having serious effects, why punish them?

 

[Payne]

https://twitter.com/kaitlancollins/status/1420043125309980677

That will really motivate people to get vaccinated. 

 

[Capella]

Awful. I understand for unvaccinated kids but for vaccinated kids who already had a miniscule chance of having serious effects, why punish them?

Yea I agree with that. If my kid had the vax I’d be fine with him going to school maskless, if most of the other kids were vaccinated too. 
 

The CDC has really handled this all terribly. I understand that some of this is with hindsight but they haven’t been in front of the narrative at all. 

 

[Capella]

Very little momentum to 5-12 year old approval.  I really thought they'd square this away before school.  Going to be a lot of kids that just spent a full year on zoom thrown into a classroom with 0% peers with shots. 

So basically my 4 year old is never getting this? God this sucks. 

 

[jobarules]

That will really motivate people to get vaccinated. 

Exactly. Im on the fence with my 12 year old leaning no right now. If they said vaccinated kids can go unmasked in school Id probably lean towards him getting the vaccine.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Exactly. Im on the fence with my 12 year old leaning no right now. If they said vaccinated kids can go unmasked in school Id probably lean towards him getting the vaccine.

It probably changes in the spring once Delta burns out and more people are vaxxed/immune and less likely to be spreading.  The evidence of vaccinated people able to spread even if mild/no symptoms is the issue now.  And the unknown/fear of long covid.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

So basically my 4 year old is never getting this? God this sucks. 

I often find myself thinking about how thankful I am that I didn't have school-aged kids during the pandemic.  I'm pretty sure my level of frustration would have reached unhealthy levels a long time ago.

 

[Capella]

I often find myself thinking about how thankful I am that I didn't have school-aged kids during the pandemic.  I'm pretty sure my level of frustration would have reached unhealthy levels a long time ago.

Yea. Last year was fine (relatively) because he was too young for preschool so we didn’t miss anything. But now he can start and he needs to make friends and learn stuff and now it’s a problem. Still better than some because he doesn’t HAVE to go to preschool and we could afford a tutor, but still not ideal. 
 

And to think like 6 weeks ago I thought him going was a done deal. 

 

[skol asylum]

CNN: CDC will recommend everyone in K-12 schools wear a mask -- regardless of vaccination status -- in new guidance.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/27/politics/cdc-mask-guidance/index.html

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Awful. I understand for unvaccinated kids but for vaccinated kids who already had a miniscule chance of having serious effects, why punish them?

I'm not looking to argue this point or tell you you're wrong to feel that way, but I find it kind of jarring that people view wearing a mask as a punishment. I was actually worried early on in the pandemic that my kids would have issues with masks, especially the younger one who is on the autism spectrum, but it's become a total non-issue, just something that they put on when they're leaving the apartment. It's as much of an imposition as their school's dress code (which just consists of a polo shirt and shorts).

I definitely recognize that other parents have not been so fortunate, and again, no judgment toward you. Just sharing my reaction.

 

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Hospitalization percentages in MS (source MS Dep of Heath) 

Age Group (Proportion of Hospitalizations)
0-19  (Up 500% from 1 year ago)
20-29 (Up 300%) 
30-39 (Up 200%)
40-49 (Up 200%)

- Positivity at an all time high (15% and climbing fast)
- 3600 new cases over the weekend / 1300 new cases today / almost all likely delta)

More fuel to the kids and young adults are going to be getting very sick and or dying this time around.... 

Buckle up and hunker down. 

 

[PIK95]

That will really motivate people to get vaccinated. 

It will motivate vaxxed people to start going after their unvaxxed friends and family probably.  I have been calling out everyone all along.  I knew this was coming.  Selfish nonvaxxed jerks...

 

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I'm not looking to argue this point or tell you you're wrong to feel that way, but I find it kind of jarring that people view wearing a mask as a punishment. I was actually worried early on in the pandemic that my kids would have issues with masks, especially the younger one who is on the autism spectrum, but it's become a total non-issue, just something that they put on when they're leaving the apartment. It's as much of an imposition as their school's dress code (which just consists of a polo shirt and shorts).

I definitely recognize that other parents have not been so fortunate, and again, no judgment toward you. Just sharing my reaction.

This is @shadyridr we are talking about... go back and read his posts from the start of all this and his continued dragging of the feet and disconnect from science will make more sense. 

 

[jobarules]

I'm not looking to argue this point or tell you you're wrong to feel that way, but I find it kind of jarring that people view wearing a mask as a punishment. I was actually worried early on in the pandemic that my kids would have issues with masks, especially the younger one who is on the autism spectrum, but it's become a total non-issue, just something that they put on when they're leaving the apartment. It's as much of an imposition as their school's dress code (which just consists of a polo shirt and shorts).

I definitely recognize that other parents have not been so fortunate, and again, no judgment toward you. Just sharing my reaction.

It definitely feels like a punishment wearing one all day in a classroom for most kids.

 

[jobarules]

This is @shadyridr we are talking about... go back and read his posts from the start of all this and his continued dragging of the feet and disconnect from science will make more sense. 

Dude enough is enough. Im entitled to my opinion so get off my nuts 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

This is @shadyridr we are talking about... go back and read his posts from the start of all this and his continued dragging of the feet and disconnect from science will make more sense. 

I don't understand. He previously posted under a different name?

Anyway, I don't particularly care about any of that, but my general impression from Joba's posts is that I sometimes agree with him, sometimes don't, but I've generally found him to be a pretty thoughtful poster who, like the rest of us parents, is navigating a tricky situation in which there are no easy answers. There are probably some other regular posters here who, if they had said something similar, I wouldn't have bothered responding to.

 

[skol asylum]

Of course, I'm in Florida so I know what our governor will say to the CDC. 

Desantis is terrible.

 

[skol asylum]

Awful. I understand for unvaccinated kids but for vaccinated kids who already had a miniscule chance of having serious effects, why punish them?

You know what's worse punishment? Long Covid destroying their future health.

 

[skol asylum]

Yea I agree with that. If my kid had the vax I’d be fine with him going to school maskless, if most of the other kids were vaccinated too. 
 

The CDC has really handled this all terribly. I understand that some of this is with hindsight but they haven’t been in front of the narrative at all. 

Problem is most kids are probably not vaxxed.

 

[skol asylum]

It probably changes in the spring once Delta burns out and more people are vaxxed/immune and less likely to be spreading.  The evidence of vaccinated people able to spread even if mild/no symptoms is the issue now.  And the unknown/fear of long covid.

Until the next worse variant comes along because selfish people refuse to get us to herd immunity.

 

[skol asylum]

CDC also supposed to recommend all masks for everyone for indoors again.

 

[BigJim®]

I'm not looking to argue this point or tell you you're wrong to feel that way, but I find it kind of jarring that people view wearing a mask as a punishment.

Can't we just view it as efforts to save lives? It's only a punishment for people who view mask wearing as making some other statement, typically a political one. It's just not.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

CDC also supposed to recommend all masks for everyone for indoors again.

I think only in areas with high community spread.

 

[jobarules]

You know what's worse punishment? Long Covid destroying their future health.

I see little evidence of this happening in children.

 

[jobarules]

Can't we just view it as efforts to save lives? It's only a punishment for people who view mask wearing as making some other statement, typically a political one. It's just not.

Wearing a mask to the store is barely an inconvenience. Wearing a mask all day in stuffy classrooms only allowed to remove to eat lunch in the same classroom and then put the same mask back on is punishing. Do you not see the difference?

 

[BigJim®]

Wearing a mask to the store is barely an inconvenience. Wearing a mask all day in stuffy classrooms only allowed to remove to eat lunch in the same classroom and then put the same mask back on is punishing. Do you not see the difference?

It is "Punishing" in the definitional sense? i.e. "inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code." Are you sure you don't mean "really inconvenient" or "uncomfortable"? Why does it have to be described as punitive? 

 

[skol asylum]

I think only in areas with high community spread.

Yeah this. I missed that. But that's like 2/3 of states and rising. Just a matter of time.

 

[Doug B]

I think only in areas with high community spread.

"Areas with high community spread" is just "areas" these days, no?

Tongue only slightly in cheek.

 

[Doug B]

The U.S. Department of Education just put out a white paper on:

Improving Ventilation in Schools, Colleges, and Universities to Prevent COVID-19

Clean air is essential for living and learning, and effective ventilation is an important part of COVID-19 prevention. We know that even before the pandemic, some schools, colleges, and universities had indoor air quality challenges, which many school, district, and higher education leaders worked to address as they reopened schools for in-person learning over the course of the last year.

As we move into the 2021-2022 school year, ventilation continues to be a top concern for many communities. Proper ventilation is a key prevention strategy for maintaining healthy environments and, along with other preventive actions, can reduce the likelihood of spreading disease. Wearing a well-fitting, multi-layer mask helps keep virus particles from entering the air and protects mask wearers. Good ventilation is another critical step to help reduce the number of airborne virus particles.

The ARP provided $122 billion for the Elementary and Secondary Schools Emergency Relief (ESSER) Fund to help schools prevent the spread of COVID-19 and recover from its effects, including by improving indoor air quality, so school leaders across the country can act now to improve ventilation in their buildings. The ESSER funds and Governors Emergency Education Relief (GEER) funds provided under earlier appropriations can also support this work. In addition, Higher Education Emergency Relief (HEER) funds provided under the ARP and previous stimulus funds can support many ventilation improvements in institutions of higher education (IHEs). While these funds provide an important foundation, President Biden’s Build Back Better agenda would tackle longstanding school infrastructure needs, including ventilation improvement.

ESSER, GEER, and HEER funds can support both immediate actions and longer-term projects, including the inspection, testing, maintenance, repair, replacement, and upgrading of projects to improve indoor air quality in school facilities. This can include system upgrades, filtering, purification and other air cleaning, fans, and window and door repair.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Wearing a mask to the store is barely an inconvenience. Wearing a mask all day in stuffy classrooms only allowed to remove to eat lunch in the same classroom and then put the same mask back on is punishing. Do you not see the difference?

Last year, when my previous employer brought us back into the office, I had to share a room with a coworker (probably 12'x12'; we sat about 6 feet away from each other with a cheap Plexiglas divider between us that almost certainly provided no value). The first few days, I would wear a mask when I was in the hallways but take it off when I sat down. Then I decided that, to be safe, I would wear it all day and only take it off when I was eating. I initially thought it would be a huge pain, but after a day or two I got used to it.

When we hit the fall surge, I asked my coworker if he would consider doing the same thing. He said he just couldn't bring himself wear it all day. On the one hand, I was like "You could. It's not that hard." At the same time, I didn't feel like it was something I could really press him on. (We ended up compromising; he put his mask on whenever I took mine off to eat. Once we both got vaxxed we ditched the masks when we were in the office together.)

All of which is to repeat what I said in my original post: I don't really have an issue with masks (and also think that "punish" is probably too strong of a word) but I generally get where you're coming from.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

The U.S. Department of Education just put out a white paper on:

Improving Ventilation in Schools, Colleges, and Universities to Prevent COVID-19

This is great. One silver lining of Covid is that it's helped bring a bunch of pre-existing problems to light. Poor ventilation has been causing problems in schools, especially low-income ones, for years, particularly kids with asthma. Hopefully we will come out of this better than we were previously on that front.

 

[leftcoastguy7]

I saw a doctor on the news yesterday that said Delta is 1000 times more contagious than the original strain. I thought that was hyperbole on his part so I did some googling. Turns out there is some basis behind that 1000 number.

I guess when doctors are first seeing Covid patients now and are looking at their respiratory tracks, they are seeing 1000 times the amount of the virus that they saw back in patients in 2020. I don't know if that means Delta is 1000x more contagious however. This is scary nonetheless. 

 

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I saw a doctor on the news yesterday that said Delta is 1000 times more contagious than the original strain. I thought that was hyperbole on his part so I did some googling. Turns out there is some basis behind that 1000 number.

I guess when doctors are first seeing Covid patients now and are looking at their respiratory tracks, they are seeing 1000 times the amount of the virus that they saw back in patients in 2020. I don't know if that means Delta is 1000x more contagious however. This is scary nonetheless. 

From what I understand (grain of salt), 1000x is viral load, not transmissibility (two are correlated but not directly). 

I've heard 2x as contagious, which is a pretty scary figure in and of itself. I think it's too early to have a firm R0 though. 

Either way I believe that doctor misspoke based on current knowledge of the strain. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I saw a doctor on the news yesterday that said Delta is 1000 times more contagious than the original strain. I thought that was hyperbole on his part so I did some googling. Turns out there is some basis behind that 1000 number.

I guess when doctors are first seeing Covid patients now and are looking at their respiratory tracks, they are seeing 1000 times the amount of the virus that they saw back in patients in 2020. I don't know if that means Delta is 1000x more contagious however. This is scary nonetheless. 

I heard a similar stat that I initially doubted (might have been from a link posted here):

Emily Alpert Reyes @AlpertReyes

Maybe the most useful comparison I’ve seen: “At the beginning of the pandemic, the CDC said that a close contact was somebody that you’re indoors with unmasked for 15 min or more. The equivalent of that with the Delta variant … is one second.”

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Should the Delta Variant cause me to take extra precautions or not travel etc due to having unvaccinated kids?

Thread Scott Gotlieb retweeted:

https://twitter.com/joannekenen/status/1404272835032403970?s=21

UK is delaying their "reopening" from June 21 until July 19, due to the Delta Variant.  Should we be exercising some caution instead of letting our guard down?  

We means society in general.

The UK is better vaccinated than us and has been a bellwether for things to come here often and they are delaying a much celebrated reopening plan due to the variant.  Now, it does appear that the Delta has taken a strong hold there, but I am reading that Delta could be the dominant strain in the USA in 2-3 weeks . . . . 

Understood.

I have viewed this thread as a good unfiltered source of information and as a means of seeing what responsible people are doing to keep their families safe, despite what may be going on around us.

The variants to date have been nothing-burgers, but Delta seems a bit different given the carnage in India.  So I just wanted to see what the learned group here was thinking.

Sooooo, the answer was yes, we should be exercising caution.  

 

[jobarules]

It is "Punishing" in the definitional sense? i.e. "inflict a penalty or sanction on (someone) as retribution for an offense, especially a transgression of a legal or moral code." Are you sure you don't mean "really inconvenient" or "uncomfortable"? Why does it have to be described as punitive? 

Its a punishment for the unvaxxed and the vaxxed are getting lumped in with them.

 

[jobarules]

For all the concerns about Delta, the #s in India are considerably lower than they were back in May. Why? Are their vax #s much better now? No. Only 7% of their population if fully vaccinated. 

 

[jobarules]

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/covid-19-delta-infecting-even-fully-vaccinated-at-a-greater-rate/articleshow/84773989.cms

 

[worrierking]

The U.S. Department of Education just put out a white paper on:

Improving Ventilation in Schools, Colleges, and Universities to Prevent COVID-19

They heard my rant up thread and got busy!!

This is great stuff.  

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

For all the concerns about Delta, the #s in India are considerably lower than they were back in May. Why? Are their vax #s much better now? No. Only 7% of their population if fully vaccinated. 

Just spitballing here, but isn't there some level of seasonality with the virus that causes it to ebb and flow?

 

[Jackstraw]

For all the concerns about Delta, the #s in India are considerably lower than they were back in May. Why? Are their vax #s much better now? No. Only 7% of their population if fully vaccinated. 

The highly vaxed UK has seen a big drop as well so those two countries are encouraging. There have been big questions about the data coming out of India for a while so I give more creedance to the UK numbers. Still, even those extrapolated over our population size would be well over 100K a day right now and they are significantly down from their latest peak. 

 

[BigJim®]

Its a punishment for the unvaxxed and the vaxxed are getting lumped in with them.

It's not a punishment to anyone. It's a measure - one of the few we have - in effort to reduce transmission.

 

[jobarules]

New unpublished data showing that vaccinated people infected with the Delta coronavirus variant can have as much virus as those who are unvaccinated is the primary driver for the CDC's latest mask guidance change, a source involved with the decision process told CNN.

So does the NFL change their policy now? Are we still shaming unvaxxed people because they are possibly spreading Covid while the vaxxed are not?

Seems to me that getting the vax for Delta is now strictly about your own health and not civic duty.

 

[Doug B]

For all the concerns about Delta, the #s in India are considerably lower than they were back in May. Why? Are their vax #s much better now? No. Only 7% of their population if fully vaccinated. 

Just spitballing here, but isn't there some level of seasonality with the virus that causes it to ebb and flow?

Seasonality is not yet apparent. However, a distinct pattern of rises and falls -- waves, IOW -- is apparent. It's become a matter of how fast a country gets through the wave.

Looking at countries that dealt with Delta** earlier than the USA -- chiefly the UK and India -- a fairly quick-arriving fall comes after the rise. Delta is not yet causing especially sustained peaks anywhere -- not like the winter peak in the U.S., anyway. Cold comfort for those effected, but that's the way Delta looks from the top of a mountain.

** sorry, couldn't resist

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

I find articles like this really frustrating:

CDC reverses course on K-12 mask guidelines, clashing with DeSantis’ plans for school

BY ANA CEBALLOS HERALD/TIMES TALLAHASSEE BUREAU

JULY 27, 2021 03:38 PM

Gov. Ron DeSantis on Monday held a closed-door panel discussion in which he doubled down on his opposition to mask wearing in schools, adding fuel to a debate that has intensified as kids get ready for the start of a new school year in a couple of weeks.

The discussion — which the governor’s office said was meant to be a “closed discussion” — took place a day before the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended children and adults wear masks indoors at K-12 schools, regardless of their vaccination status.

The federal mask guidelines are reversing course on an earlier recommendation suggesting fully vaccinated students and teachers were safe to attend school without a mask.

The federal agency’s recommendation are at odds with the views expressed by DeSantis and the panelists on Monday, including remarks that “masking children is child abuse” and that mask mandate recommendations for children is “virtue signaling” and based on little evidence.

“There is no evidence in places where you say, well, gee, because they didn’t have masks, they had these horrible outcomes. That just didn’t happen,” DeSantis said during Monday’s panel discussion, with four physicians, a parent and a student whose views aligned with the governor’s on masks.

[...]

At the time, Corcoran said data showed districts’ face-covering policies do not impact the spread of the coronavirus; that families and individuals should maintain their ability to make a decision unique to their circumstances; and that broad sweeping mandatory face-covering policies “serve no remaining good at this point in our schools.” But he did not include any data or studies to back up his reasons in the memo.

On Monday, DeSantis reiterated his skepticism about the science behind mask requirements.

“Can they point to something and say, well, gee, the Chicago school district had a mask requirement, this other school district didn’t and look how poorly the school district that didn’t have the mask requirement performed? Are there even examples of that?” DeSantis said.

Isn't it a reporter's job to actually tell us what the evidence does say so that we can evaluate the claims by Corcoran and DeSantis, rather than just telling us whether or not they provided it? As the parent of kids who will be attending school in Florida this fall, I'd really like to know!

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Seasonality is not yet apparent. However, a distinct pattern of rises and falls -- waves, IOW -- is apparent. It's become a matter of how fast a country gets through the wave.

Looking at countries that dealt with Delta** earlier than the USA -- chiefly the UK and India -- a fairly quick-arriving fall comes after the rise. Delta is not yet causing especially sustained peaks anywhere -- not like the winter peak in the U.S., anyway. Cold comfort for those effected, but that's the way Delta looks from the top of a mountain.

** sorry, couldn't resist

And like was posted above I think, Delta is probably more rampant here than what is being reported due to lack of testing and tracing, so we could be close (hopefully) to heading back down.  

 

[SpurrierisisGod]

Just took my 14 yo daughter to get 1st Pfizer shot.  Walgreens was packed.  I guess everyone down here saw that CNN sent a crew to investigate why our number of vaxxed is lagging so far behind....

17yo son still resisting.  He's about to get the "well you are going to sit home and do nothing" talk. No soccer camp, no girlfriend visit, no soccer tournaments.....