*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (14 Viewers)

[Mene]

During the previous century we had children survive 2 world wars, a global pandemic, and a depression.  Many of The Greatest Generation were born and raised during a world war and a pandemic.  We seemed to come out of all of it okay.  We now live in a time where technology lets them continue their education from home, maintain contact with friends and family from home, and have endless entertainment options at home.  Yet, we are convinced that any effort to limit spread of this virus by having children proactively quarantine when exposed will cause them irreparable harm?

Look, I get it that remote learning isn't ideal.  I get that lack of in person social interaction isn't ideal.  This idea that we are damaging these kinds beyond any hope of a successful life by having them quarantine when appropriate strikes me as a bit hyperbolic.  I'm certainly not advocating for more shutdowns and quarantines, but I'm really starting to tire of this idea that we are destroying an entire generation by taking the precautions we have been taking during this pandemic.  

The last 20 months have sucked for most of us, we've all had to make adjustments, we've all sacrificed.  I'm confident the kids will be okay.  Kids have been raised into successful adults through much worse.

 

[Tom Servo]

This is never going away.

No matter what measures we take, this will continue to evolve and mutate…just like the common cold or the flu. 

 

[jobarules]

During the previous century we had children survive 2 world wars, a global pandemic, and a depression.  Many of The Greatest Generation were born and raised during a world war and a pandemic.  We seemed to come out of all of it okay.  We now live in a time where technology lets them continue their education from home, maintain contact with friends and family from home, and have endless entertainment options at home.  Yet, we are convinced that any effort to limit spread of this virus by having children proactively quarantine when exposed will cause them irreparable harm?

Look, I get it that remote learning isn't ideal.  I get that lack of in person social interaction isn't ideal.  This idea that we are damaging these kinds beyond any hope of a successful life by having them quarantine when appropriate strikes me as a bit hyperbolic.  I'm certainly not advocating for more shutdowns and quarantines, but I'm really starting to tire of this idea that we are destroying an entire generation by taking the precautions we have been taking during this pandemic.  

The last 20 months have sucked for most of us, we've all had to make adjustments, we've all sacrificed.  I'm confident the kids will be okay.  Kids have been raised into successful adults through much worse.

Tell that to the doctors who we all trust to get us through the pandemic.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/08/kids-growing-up-in-the-covid-19-era-are-damaged/

The surgeon general has released a rare public advisory about an “emerging youth mental- health crisis.” In a 53-page report, we learned that symptoms of depression and anxiety have doubled during the pandemic, with 25 percent of youth experiencing depressive symptoms and 20 percent experiencing anxiety. 

The surgeon general also warned that conditions like ADHD are on the rise

Among teenage girls, suicide attempts are up a shocking 51 percent (and among boys, 4 percent).

Tell that to this guy

Jay Smith, the father of Spencer Smith, a teenage boy who died earlier this month of suicide, explained his son ’splight, as reported by NBC News: He said Spencer had spent all summer working out and getting in shape so he could play on the school’s football team as a lineman. When the sport was changed to flag football because of the pandemic, Spencer “gave up on it,” his father said. “It wasn’t the same type of practice because they had to social distance. He didn’t like that part of it,” Smith explained. 

Spencer eventually stopped working out, and his grades began to suffer as he grappled with remote learning. 

At one point, the teenager was attending in-person school one day a week but asked his parents if he could stay home because he found it too difficult not being able to interact with his peers. 

Smith said his son left a note behind detailing his struggles with being isolated, writing that he felt like he was “locked in this house.” 

Follow the science

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Tell that to the doctors who we all trust to get us through the pandemic.

https://nypost.com/2021/12/08/kids-growing-up-in-the-covid-19-era-are-damaged/

Tell that to this guy

Follow the science

I would guess that parents are PARTLY to blame.  The way they handle the pandemic directly effects their children more than anything else out there.  It's safe to say a ton of parents aren't handling this well and have been hell-bent on fighting things from the start.  For starters, politicizing a virus was/is as dumb as it gets.

Whenever I see a child on the news at some mask protest in front of their school or some ####, I wince when I hear the words come out of their mouths.  It is 100% regurgitated from their irate, irrational parents.  I could go further but I won't.

Anyway, those kids are not being taught the right ways in which to handle adversity, to say the least. 

So going back to what Mene was saying, I would hazard a guess that this generation's parenting skills are not what previous generation's skills were.  We grew up in much more privileged times and maybe that is part of it, I don't know.  But today's kids seem less "resilient", for lack of a better word, thus the fallout.

 

[belljr]

I would guess that parents are PARTLY to blame.  The way they handle the pandemic directly effects their children more than anything else out there.  It's safe to say a ton of parents aren't handling this well and have been hell-bent on fighting things from the start.  For starters, politicizing a virus was/is as dumb as it gets.

Whenever I see a child on the news at some mask protest in front of their school or some ####, I wince when I hear the words come out of their mouths.  It is 100% regurgitated from their irate, irrational parents.  I could go further but I won't.

Anyway, those kids are not being taught the right ways in which to handle adversity, to say the least. 

So going back to what Mene was saying, I would hazard a guess that this generation's parenting skills are not what previous generation's skills were.  We grew up in much more privileged times and maybe that is part of it, I don't know.  But today's kids seem less "resilient", for lack of a better word, thus the fallout.

So my daughter developed anxiety because I'm a bad parent? Because we took this seriously from the start?

Maybe I should start beating her like my generation was....

That's a hot take you got there

 

[jobarules]

I would guess that parents are PARTLY to blame.  The way they handle the pandemic directly effects their children more than anything else out there.  It's safe to say a ton of parents aren't handling this well and have been hell-bent on fighting things from the start.  For starters, politicizing a virus was/is as dumb as it gets.

Whenever I see a child on the news at some mask protest in front of their school or some ####, I wince when I hear the words come out of their mouths.  It is 100% regurgitated from their irate, irrational parents.  I could go further but I won't.

Anyway, those kids are not being taught the right ways in which to handle adversity, to say the least. 

So going back to what Mene was saying, I would hazard a guess that this generation's parenting skills are not what previous generation's skills were.  We grew up in much more privileged times and maybe that is part of it, I don't know.  But today's kids seem less "resilient", for lack of a better word, thus the fallout.

Yeah those parents are the issue rather than the ones that teach their kids to willingly comply with everything. What a joke.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

So my daughter developed anxiety because I'm a bad parent? Because we took this seriously from the start?

Maybe I should start beating her like my generation was....

That's a hot take you got there

I knew this might open up a can of worms.  That's why I capitalized "PARTLY".  I think it has something to do with it, in SOME households, NOT yours.  So no, I am not talking about your daughter, or anyone here directly.  I don't know why you'd even think that. 

I am generalizing and happen to be elaborating on Mene's point is all, please don't take it personally.

 

[jobarules]

So my daughter developed anxiety because I'm a bad parent? Because we took this seriously from the start?

Maybe I should start beating her like my generation was....

That's a hot take you got there

Tell your kid to suck it up buttercup because Harry Frogfish says so

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Yeah those parents are the issue rather than the ones that teach their kids to willingly comply with everything. What a joke.

No need to embellish, Dad.  Those aren't my words.

If you think parents don't have anything to do with how their children react, respond and handle this, I disagree.

 

[belljr]

I knew this might open up a can of worms.  That's why I capitalized "PARTLY".  I think it has something to do with it, in SOME households, NOT yours.  So no, I am not talking about your daughter, or anyone here directly.  I don't know why you'd even think that. 

I am generalizing and happen to be elaborating on Mene's point is all, please don't take it personally.

You are right. Hits close to home. My daughter is a great tough kid who went to pieces last year. Still got great grades but really struggled with anxiety all of a sudden. Luckily I think we are passed all that now but it was heart breaking to here her description

 

[Pip's Invitation]

I don't know who is the bigger idiot here! My MIL or the school! 

Yes. 

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

You are right. Hits close to home. My daughter is a great tough kid who went to pieces last year. Still got great grades but really struggled with anxiety all of a sudden. Luckily I think we are passed all that now but it was heart breaking to here her description

Because of the masks or due to the whole pandemic and isolation in general?

 

[belljr]

Because of the masks or due to the whole pandemic and isolation in general?

 

[top dog]

My covid positive MIL has been getting a bit worse. We bought her a pulse oximeter and I told her that if she goes below 95% it might be time to reach out to the doctor. My QANON Nurse sister-in-law corrected me on the phone and said, "That is not true. When a patient gets below 92% it is time to look at administering oxygen. I told her I appreciated her medical advice, but I had done my own research.   

So far the MIL is hanging in there, but coughing pretty bad... feels like she got run over by a train...  

 

[Dragons]

My covid positive MIL has been getting a bit worse. We bought her a pulse oximeter and I told her that if she goes below 95% it might be time to reach out to the doctor. My QANON Nurse sister-in-law corrected me on the phone and said, "That is not true. When a patient gets below 92% it is time to look at administering oxygen. I told her I appreciated her medical advice, but I had done my own research.   

So far the MIL is hanging in there, but coughing pretty bad... feels like she got run over by a train...  

Even my sister in law who suggested ivermectin agreed that monoclonal antibodies was a better option. Maybe you can work that angle.

It's really weird to not advocate for the best possible care (even if someone thinks it's not really needed).

 

[Biff84]

I do agree that parents on both extremes may be contributing to the anxiety and mental health issues. It’s at times putting them into the extreme political stances as well. But everyone seems to be focused on the isolation being the major cause and ignoring that many of these kids may have relatives who have gotten very sick or died from COVID. Or the fact they’re being used as pawns in political games.

Kids should be in person as much as possible but we shouldn’t be avoiding common sense quarantines out of fear. If you want to reduce your risk of them having to quarantine, do your part. Have them wear a mask to school, get them vaccinated when eligible and wear a mask in public because you’re still a risk to spread it to them of cause them to quarantine. If you’re not willing to do that and want to ##### about kids quarantining, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

During the previous century we had children survive 2 world wars, a global pandemic, and a depression.  Many of The Greatest Generation were born and raised during a world war and a pandemic.  We seemed to come out of all of it okay.  We now live in a time where technology lets them continue their education from home, maintain contact with friends and family from home, and have endless entertainment options at home.  Yet, we are convinced that any effort to limit spread of this virus by having children proactively quarantine when exposed will cause them irreparable harm?

Well, yeah, kind of.  There's a reason why we think that kids should normally be in school -- they learn better that way, and the social skills they develop are just as important as learning the quadratic equation.  I don't think there's even a serious argument to be made against the idea that widespread school closures over a two year period have real costs.

Like most other things, this is a cost-benefit calculation.  If covid-19 were getting kids sick, putting them in the hospital, and killing them at rates like what we see in the elderly, then it would probably be worth leaning more heavily on remote learning to get through the pandemic.  But of course that's not how covid works, and we've known that more or less since the beginning. 

In 2020, the argument for remote learning was that we needed to keep kids at home to prevent them from bringing the virus home to grandma.  That was highly debatable at the time -- I'm pretty sure there's at least some evidence out there demonstrating that school closures actually increased community spread, but I don't know if that issue was ever really settled.  It's moot now.  Grandma can get vaccinated, so we don't need to worry so much about little Johnny picking up SARS-CoV-2 at school. 

At this point, it seems like "Stay home if you're sick, come to school otherwise" is a perfectly fine approach to things.  I'm having a hard time seeing what the argument is for doing otherwise.  Adults can easily mitigate their risk, so why impose any cost on kids?    

 

[top dog]

Well, yeah, kind of.  There's a reason why we think that kids should normally be in school -- they learn better that way, and the social skills they develop are just as important as learning the quadratic equation.  I don't think there's even a serious argument to be made against the idea that widespread school closures over a two year period have real costs.

Like most other things, this is a cost-benefit calculation.  If covid-19 were getting kids sick, putting them in the hospital, and killing them at rates like what we see in the elderly, then it would probably be worth leaning more heavily on remote learning to get through the pandemic.  But of course that's not how covid works, and we've known that more or less since the beginning. 

In 2020, the argument for remote learning was that we needed to keep kids at home to prevent them from bringing the virus home to grandma.  That was highly debatable at the time -- I'm pretty sure there's at least some evidence out there demonstrating that school closures actually increased community spread, but I don't know if that issue was ever really settled.  It's moot now.  Grandma can get vaccinated, so we don't need to worry so much about little Johnny picking up SARS-CoV-2 at school. 

At this point, it seems like "Stay home if you're sick, come to school otherwise" is a perfectly fine approach to things.  I'm having a hard time seeing what the argument is for doing otherwise.  Adults can easily mitigate their risk, so why impose any cost on kids?    

I agree with you on most of this. Except a couple points. I find it hard to believe keeping kids at home in 2020 increased community spread, but like you said, it is pretty much a moot point now and impossible to prove either way.

I think "Stay home if you're sick, come to school otherwise" should be "Stay home if you're sick, come to school otherwise... UNLESS SOMEONE IN YOUR HOUSE HAS COVID."

Sending kids back to school when mom or sibling has covid is just asking to spread it around more. People took their kids out of school for vacations and what not all the time before the pandemic. Now we are acting like Sally staying home for 10 days because she is living in home with a covid positive person is destroying her life? Not buying it.

 

[Mene]

Well, yeah, kind of.  There's a reason why we think that kids normally be in school -- they learn better that way, and the social skills they develop are just as important as learning the quadratic equation.  I don't think there's even a serious argument to be made against the idea that widespread school closures over a two year period have real costs.

Like most other things, this is a cost-benefit calculation.  If covid-19 were getting kids sick, putting them in the hospital, and killing them at rates like what we see in the elderly, then it would probably be worth leaning more heavily on remote learning to get through the pandemic.  But of course that's not how covid works, and we've known that more or less since the beginning. 

In 2020, the argument for remote learning was that we needed to keep kids at home to prevent them from bringing the virus home to grandma.  That was highly debatable at the time -- I'm pretty sure there's at least some evidence out there demonstrating that school closures actually increased community spread, but I don't know if that issue was ever really settled.  It's moot now.  Grandma can get vaccinated, so we don't need to worry so much about little Johnny picking up SARS-CoV-2 at school. 

At this point, it seems like "Stay home if you're sick, come to school otherwise" is a perfectly fine approach to things.  I'm having a hard time seeing what the argument is for doing otherwise.    

I'm not arguing that the widespread closures didn't cause harm.  I think the evidence is pretty inarguable at this point.  There was undoubtedly some overreaction at the time, due to a lack of information, and probably a lack of preparation on how to deal with something like this.   

My argument is more against the debate now as to whether any precautions should be taken.  The people declaring that any quarantine, any masking, any precautions at all are damaging beyond all hope of recovery just rings hollow to me.  We should absolutely be doing everything we can to keep them in school.  However, the idea that we are to the point we can just return to normal, at least as it relates to the children, seems to be ignoring the fact that we are still in a pandemic. 

I've agreed with your stance that for most of us, a return to normal once vaccinated is appropriate, to a point.    I still think some small measures are warranted, like testing and isolation (as much as possible) after a known exposure (similar to the NFL, since this is a football message board).  Mass closures, 100% masking, quarantining prophylactically, should all be in the past at this point.  I just disagree with the growing belief that we have destroyed this generation, and will continue to do harm unless we just allow the kids to return to pre-pandemic lifestyles. 

I qualify this by saying I am in no way trying to minimize the suffering that has already taken place, and will continue to take place.  I feel awful for the parents of children who have suffered mental trauma from all that has happened.  I just hesitate to declare that all of that suffering and trauma is the fault of any person, or persons.  Much of this is just the result of the pandemic that fell upon us, and from good faith efforts to try to get it under control.  That's not say that we haven't seen some bad actors, with hidden motivations, but for the most part I think that most of what has happened was truly an effort to control the pandemic.       

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Well, yeah, kind of.  There's a reason why we think that kids should normally be in school -- they learn better that way, and the social skills they develop are just as important as learning the quadratic equation.  I don't think there's even a serious argument to be made against the idea that widespread school closures over a two year period have real costs.

Like most other things, this is a cost-benefit calculation.  If covid-19 were getting kids sick, putting them in the hospital, and killing them at rates like what we see in the elderly, then it would probably be worth leaning more heavily on remote learning to get through the pandemic.  But of course that's not how covid works, and we've known that more or less since the beginning. 

In 2020, the argument for remote learning was that we needed to keep kids at home to prevent them from bringing the virus home to grandma.  That was highly debatable at the time -- I'm pretty sure there's at least some evidence out there demonstrating that school closures actually increased community spread, but I don't know if that issue was ever really settled.  It's moot now.  Grandma can get vaccinated, so we don't need to worry so much about little Johnny picking up SARS-CoV-2 at school. 

At this point, it seems like "Stay home if you're sick, come to school otherwise" is a perfectly fine approach to things.  I'm having a hard time seeing what the argument is for doing otherwise.  Adults can easily mitigate their risk, so why impose any cost on kids?    

I still have people in my circle (work, neighbors) who struggle with “stay home if you’re sick, come to school/work otherwise.”   

 

[AAABatteries]

I do agree that parents on both extremes may be contributing to the anxiety and mental health issues. It’s at times putting them into the extreme political stances as well. But everyone seems to be focused on the isolation being the major cause and ignoring that many of these kids may have relatives who have gotten very sick or died from COVID. Or the fact they’re being used as pawns in political games.

Kids should be in person as much as possible but we shouldn’t be avoiding common sense quarantines out of fear. If you want to reduce your risk of them having to quarantine, do your part. Have them wear a mask to school, get them vaccinated when eligible and wear a mask in public because you’re still a risk to spread it to them of cause them to quarantine. If you’re not willing to do that and want to ##### about kids quarantining, I don’t know what to tell you.

Yeah - in person school was something that early on my wife and I decided to do (once the option was available).  My kids are older so asking them to wear masks wasn’t a huge deal and it was obvious our school system was not doing remote learning well.  We followed all guidelines for quarantining and avoided being around anyone elderly or large groups, etc.  We were very fortunate compared with many as both my wife and I worked remotely (and still do) so it was fairly easy and allowed the kids to still go in person.  We also got them vaccinated as soon as they were eligible.  I think the decision parents had to make regarding their kids was super tough, especially for those with young kids, special needs kids, limited caregiver options, etc.  Again, I consider myself unbelievably fortunate for how things played out for my family.

 

[AAABatteries]

I still have people in my circle (work, neighbors) who struggle with “stay home if you’re sick, come to school/work otherwise.”   

I think one of the reasons for this is something we discussed in one of the threads around here - namely, some of us aren’t “healthy” all the time.  People with allergies or not great immune systems can have cold or cold-like symptoms A LOT.  It becomes almost impossible for people like that to stay home from work given the guidelines for Covid symptoms.  Again, I was lucky enough to WFH so I didn’t have to deal with it but I could easily see that I would have had a hard time knowing what to do if I was forced to go in to work AND try to follow staying home if I had any symptoms. 

 

[top dog]

So to recap, my Mother-In-law is sick with covid. So far she has been pretty sick, but not bad enough to worry about hospitalization or anything.. So far so good there.. Taking my old man to the hospital to start some cancer treatment on Monday. My brother is the only other of my siblings local and had asked him to help out with what he can. He calls me just now to tell me that he is currently at his in laws house because HIS mother-in-law just got out the hospital from COVID and was supposed to go to a rehab facility because she is dealing with brain fog from the covid. She insisted on going home. Her husband ALSO has been dealing with covid, but didn't need hospitalized. He collapsed tonight and had to be taken to the hospital with his oxygen levels at like 85%. The mother-in-law, father-in-law and my brother's wife are all unvaccinated. Because his mother-in-law can't be alone and the husband is now in the hospital, AND BECAUSE MY SISTER-IN-LAW REFUSED TO GET VACCINATED... My brother who is vaccinated (and boosted) is staying with the MIL until they can get her into a rehab facility. But now that my brother is potentially exposed to COVID and my old man is going to go through some chemo... He is no longer in the equation of helping with my old man. 

 

[PinkydaPimp]

So to recap, my Mother-In-law is sick with covid. So far she has been pretty sick, but not bad enough to worry about hospitalization or anything.. So far so good there.. Taking my old man to the hospital to start some cancer treatment on Monday. My brother is the only other of my siblings local and had asked him to help out with what he can. He calls me just now to tell me that he is currently at his in laws house because HIS mother-in-law just got out the hospital from COVID and was supposed to go to a rehab facility because she is dealing with brain fog from the covid. She insisted on going home. Her husband ALSO has been dealing with covid, but didn't need hospitalized. He collapsed tonight and had to be taken to the hospital with his oxygen levels at like 85%. The mother-in-law, father-in-law and my brother's wife are all unvaccinated. Because his mother-in-law can't be alone and the husband is now in the hospital, AND BECAUSE MY SISTER-IN-LAW REFUSED TO GET VACCINATED... My brother who is vaccinated (and boosted) is staying with the MIL until they can get her into a rehab facility. But now that my brother is potentially exposed to COVID and my old man is going to go through some chemo... He is no longer in the equation of helping with my old man. 

geez.  Sorry bro.  Hoping things get better for your family. 

 

[The Z Machine]

So to recap, my Mother-In-law is sick with covid. So far she has been pretty sick, but not bad enough to worry about hospitalization or anything.. So far so good there.. Taking my old man to the hospital to start some cancer treatment on Monday. My brother is the only other of my siblings local and had asked him to help out with what he can. He calls me just now to tell me that he is currently at his in laws house because HIS mother-in-law just got out the hospital from COVID and was supposed to go to a rehab facility because she is dealing with brain fog from the covid. She insisted on going home. Her husband ALSO has been dealing with covid, but didn't need hospitalized. He collapsed tonight and had to be taken to the hospital with his oxygen levels at like 85%. The mother-in-law, father-in-law and my brother's wife are all unvaccinated. Because his mother-in-law can't be alone and the husband is now in the hospital, AND BECAUSE MY SISTER-IN-LAW REFUSED TO GET VACCINATED... My brother who is vaccinated (and boosted) is staying with the MIL until they can get her into a rehab facility. But now that my brother is potentially exposed to COVID and my old man is going to go through some chemo... He is no longer in the equation of helping with my old man. 

@IvanKaramazov, stuff like this is why the pandemic isn't over for some people. 

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Caregiver friend of mine had her client go unconscious on her today.  They 911'd her to this very good local hospital minutes away.  The family are wealthy donors (no idea the level), so when the hospital couldn't take her and sent her to their other hospital 1/2 hour away, the daughter lost it, thinking her Mom might die. (They're vax'd, btw.)

Thankfully she's back home now but until these kind of things really hit home hard, this stuff will only continue.  However when I read posts like top dog's and others, I don't think anything will wake the anti-vax contingent; it's never ending.  They don't realize hospitals are still strained and the far-reaching effects that has to others.  They don't even want to.

My own family has drawn various lines in the sand, old and young.  It's so divisive it's maddening.  I mean Covid brought my stud (GREAT shape, mid 50's), unvacc'd brother-in-law to his knees.  Yet his own children refuse to relent, even in the wake of seeing it firsthand. 

These people are so dug in, whether it hits home or not, most will never budge.  In their minds, they have something to prove.  I'm to the point I don't think anything will change that.  Depressing.

 

[Navin Johnson]

My covid positive MIL has been getting a bit worse. We bought her a pulse oximeter and I told her that if she goes below 95% it might be time to reach out to the doctor. My QANON Nurse sister-in-law corrected me on the phone and said, "That is not true. When a patient gets below 92% it is time to look at administering oxygen. I told her I appreciated her medical advice, but I had done my own research.   

So far the MIL is hanging in there, but coughing pretty bad... feels like she got run over by a train...  

Are you talking about oxygen saturation?  I had a severe asthma attack a few years back and was put on oxygen in the ER.  I was at 92 when we got there.  Told me it reached 95 I needed to see a doc.

 

[top dog]

Are you talking about oxygen saturation?  I had a severe asthma attack a few years back and was put on oxygen in the ER.  I was at 92 when we got there.  Told me it reached 95 I needed to see a doc.

Yes Oxygen saturation. 

 

[jobarules]

@IvanKaramazov, stuff like this is why the pandemic isn't over for some people. 

People who chose to be unvaxxed. Isn't IKs point all along that the pandemic is basically over for people who are vaxxed and the ones who are unvaxxed by choice made their bed?

 

[top dog]

People who chose to be unvaxxed. Isn't IKs point all along that the pandemic is basically over for people who are vaxxed and the ones who are unvaxxed by choice made their bed?

I'm vaxxed. And my life is very much being impacted by some who are not. My father is also vaxxed and boosted. But once he starts chemo, that protection takes a serious hit. Now I will have to be extra careful because while I trust that the vaccine will help me if I get covid, I can't take the chance that I can pass it to him. 

I do agree those that have chose to go this route have made their own bed, but it doesn't mean that I still don't care for my mother-in-law. I can't just turn off those emotions and be like "Welp, she got what she deserved." My brother couldn't just tell his unvaccinated wife "That is YOUR mom. (His MIL also has covid and is unvaccinated) You are staying with her. I know you chose to not be vaccinated and I did, but screw it. You go sit in there and we'll hope for the best." No. Of course he went in her place because he didn't want to put his wife in that danger. Those who are unvaccinated and don't directly involve our day-to-day lives... Good luck to you. I wish you the best. But the reality is too many people are still getting covid for us to call this over. Even if we are vaccinated. 

 

[jobarules]

I'm vaxxed. And my life is very much being impacted by some who are not. My father is also vaxxed and boosted. But once he starts chemo, that protection takes a serious hit. Now I will have to be extra careful because while I trust that the vaccine will help me if I get covid, I can't take the chance that I can pass it to him. 

I do agree those that have chose to go this route have made their own bed, but it doesn't mean that I still don't care for my mother-in-law. I can't just turn off those emotions and be like "Welp, she got what she deserved." My brother couldn't just tell his unvaccinated wife "That is YOUR mom. (His MIL also has covid and is unvaccinated) You are staying with her. I know you chose to not be vaccinated and I did, but screw it. You go sit in there and we'll hope for the best." No. Of course he went in her place because he didn't want to put his wife in that danger. Those who are unvaccinated and don't directly involve our day-to-day lives... Good luck to you. I wish you the best. But the reality is too many people are still getting covid for us to call this over. Even if we are vaccinated. 

My point was people who chose to be unvaxxed are impacting YOUR life and making the pandemic not over for YOU. it sucks and my heart goes out to you. I obviously hope everything works out. Remember you're talking to a guy who's wife refuses to get vaxxed so I get it completely.

 

[top dog]

My point was people who chose to be unvaxxed are impacting YOUR life and making the pandemic not over for YOU. it sucks and my heart goes out to you. I obviously hope everything works out. Remember you're talking to a guy who's wife refuses to get vaxxed so I get it completely.

Gotcha. And for full disclosure, I wish everyone WOULD get vaccinated, but I don't hate those who chose not to. I'm pro-vaccine and anti-mandates. So I don't want my frustration to come across to anyone as being hateful to those folks and their choices. It makes me   when I deal with my in-laws because they have almost all chosen a path down the conspiracy and political rabbit holes, but I respect their decisions regarding their body.

I personally know a number of people that have died from covid. The last one was a friend of mine that was in WAY better shape than me (workout warrior who at my age was still working out with my workout warrior son half his age) and chose to take his chances with the virus vs. the vaccine. That choice didn't work out. 

I wish everyone could look past the noise and nonsense out there and make the right choices here, but the reality is that is not going to happen. It's ok. We will continue to go forward and eventually we will be through this bs. Kind was hoping by December 2021 things would have been a bit MORE normal.. But here we are. 

 

[gianmarco]

People who chose to be unvaxxed. Isn't IKs point all along that the pandemic is basically over for people who are vaxxed and the ones who are unvaxxed by choice made their bed?

The pandemic is no where over for anyone, vaccinated or not.

Hospitals are filling up (again) and a lot of beds are taken up by Covid patients, the vast majority of which are unvaccinated.

But once again, as this has been repeated here over and over again, that impacts non-Covid related illnesses. Elective surgeries are postponed or cancelled. Hospital beds aren't available which leads to delay in care for heart attacks, strokes, etc., transfers to other facilities to get care, and overall decline in overall care to everyone because of how full and busy things are with decreased staffing.

Not to mention how it impacts those people who are unable to get vaccinated (not by choice). 

We do not live in isolation. What we do as a population and community affects everyone. So even for IK, who right now isn't directly affected, hopefully the time doesn't come that he gets ill with something else and can't get timely care as a result of our current situation. 

Again, the pandemic isn't close to being over.

 

[nysfl2]

Some people seem to want nice clean answers on the vaccines, but there's a ton of factors to consider on how to message this:

- All of the initial vaccines seem to show that vaccine effectiveness wanes over time. Pfizer (and I think J&J) seems to drop pretty substantially after six months, Moderna's protection seems to last longer because it was a larger MRNA dose than Pfizer. Nevertheless, waning vaccine effectiveness is still better than unvaccinated. 

- Natural immunity from having caught COVID factors in to how urgent it is to get the booster. Natural immunity protection seems to vary significantly from individual to individual, and is less reliable than the vaccine. Vaccine+NI from a breakthrough infection or getting vaccinated after having COVID seems to generate really good protection. 

- We are still learning how new variants affect protection. What was good for delta may not be as good for Omicron. The booster seems to help against Omicron, better than NI or the initial vaccine, so as Omicron spreads, it's a good idea for more people to get boosted, to protect themselves and lessen the spread and burden on hospitals.

It is a public messaging nightmare to try to boil all of these complex factors down into a two sentence sound bite that people will actually read and try to understand, so the message frequently just boils down to "it's a good idea to get your booster".

 

[jobarules]

But once again, as this has been repeated here over and over again, that impacts non-Covid related illnesses. Elective surgeries are postponed or cancelled. Hospital beds aren't available which leads to delay in care for heart attacks, strokes, etc., transfers to other facilities to get care, and overall decline in overall care to everyone because of how full and busy things are with decreased staffing.

Man if only we didn't fire a bunch of healthcare workers due to vaccine mandates

 

[gianmarco]

Man if only we didn't fire a bunch of healthcare workers due to vaccine mandates

We didn't. Very few left as a result. Most ended up getting it.

Glad that's also what you seemed to take from my post. Beds would still be full or close to it even with full staffing. But only a part of the big picture.

 

[gianmarco]

Healthcare workers lost to vaccine mandate

 

[dawgtrails]

a virus that has killed AT MOST 0.02% of the population.

.2%

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

a virus that has killed AT MOST 0.02% of the population

Multiply by 10 or 15 and you're close.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

But agreed most of us should all lose weight.  And get rid of any immunocomprising conditions we might have.  Oh, and also get younger.

 

[massraider]

Again, the pandemic isn't close to being over.

Yes. 

Our Covid exhaustion doesn't make it any less real. 

 

[gianmarco]

We didn't. Very few left as a result. Most ended up getting it.

Glad that's also what you seemed to take from my post. Beds would still be full or close to it even with full staffing. But only a part of the big picture.

Healthcare workers lost to vaccine mandate

You laughed at my post @jobarules

Did you bother to read the link I posted? More than 99% of healthcare workers stayed on across multiple healthcare organizations and hospitals.

So, we didn't "fire a bunch of healthcare workers". But let's not let facts get in the way of our arguments.

 

[soothsayer]

This seems like a good spot to jump in and remind people that the "Ignore" function on this board is easy and useful. There are a few who continue posting in this particular thread that make it nearly unbearable - thankfully I only have to see their nonsense when someone quotes them.

Carry on and stay safe.

 

[Desert_Power]

This seems like a good spot to jump in and remind people that the "Ignore" function on this board is easy and useful. There are a few who continue posting in this particular thread that make it nearly unbearable - thankfully I only have to see their nonsense when someone quotes them.

Carry on and stay safe.

Just as a tip, you can also choose to ignore the reactions people like to troll with.

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Yeah those parents are the issue rather than the ones that teach their kids to willingly comply with everything. What a joke.

Another predictable, dramatic overreaction.  Surprising.  You must give great, level-headed "talks".

 

[belljr]

Another predictable, dramatic overreaction.  Surprising.  You must give great, level-headed "talks".

Not sure why I wouldn't teach my kid to follow the rules

 

[Harry Frogfish]

Not sure why I wouldn't teach my kid to follow the rules

Oh please, save it.  I'd love to see how the messages are delivered.  I'm thinking Archie Bunker here.

 

[belljr]

Oh please, save it.  I'd love to see how the messages are delivered.  I'm thinking Archie Bunker here.

Huh. I was agreeing with you

 

[gianmarco]

Huh. I was agreeing with you

Just save it!

 

[Doug B]

Huh. I was agreeing with you

I think Harry thought he was responding to another poster.