*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (10 Viewers)

[That one guy]

What’s protocol on vaccination scheduling and being exposed to possible/probable covid infected individual?

I'm scheduled for round 1 tomorrow.  My wife (*Borat voice*) is sick and has been since Sunday.  She was around and with people who tested positive prior to coming down with whatever she now has.  There’s no at-home tests anywhere and scheduling through any facilities that offer testing are booked til next week.  She’s mostly better by today with lingering meh-ness.  She’s isolating in spare bedroom, but clearly I was around her before the bottom fell out on her.

Do I cancel/reschedule or go for it?  I haven’t felt anything outside of normal allergies from ragweed season

 

[IvanKaramazov]

How many of their parents or grandparents got sick?   

It's a highly contagious virus.  It doesn't exist in a vacuum.   

Sure, I agree.  Obviously their parents and grandparents should be vaccinated by now.  If for no other reason than helping society keep schools open so their kids and grandkids can get a quality education. 

One thing that people like me find extremely frustrating about this situation is the tendency to punish people who haven't really done anything obviously wrong to protect people who have really done something obviously wrong.  Vaccinated kids and their vaccinated family members are not the people who are causing issues with the pandemic.  It is not March 2020 any more.  Everyone involved except for the immunocompromised should be fully vaccinated, and they're never going to be fully vaccinated.  It is time to move on.  There are real costs involved with school disruptions.

 

[jobarules]

Because some only pay attention to the "micro".

That means I'm taking sides?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

That's something a lot of people don't consider.

Does it really matter much if kids tend to fare all right with COVID? What about kids as COVID conduits to other people?

I think schools can be and have been conducted in person with reasonable safety, but I don't agree with the "kids don't get it" angle. So what if "kids don't get it"? They're links in a chain, strands in a web.

The "strands in a web" argument is why I was in favor of closing schools in spring 2020 and skeptical about reopening in fall 2020.  (I was wrong about fall 2020, fortunately).  

In January 2022, the "strands in a web" argument doesn't apply so well.  The kids are vaccinated, the teachers are vaccinated, and the family members are vaccinated.  Or they should be.  The one definite factor is that kids who are stuck with remote school are being made worse off, possibly and probably permanently, especially the longer we disrupt schools.

I was okay with living in isolation for a year because of the pandemic.  I am not okay with making other people's children miss another year of school.  There is a real cost to this sort of policymaking and I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with our willingness to shift that cost to little kids to benefit grown adults.

 

[jobarules]

So now we're in favor of mandates?

So hard to keep up with all of the contrarian positions.  Also,  vaccines don't protect third parties.   It's a virus.  How hard is it for you to understand that people do not live in bubbles?  It affects families, friends, groups of people, workplaces, and even hospitals.   

Who said I was in favor of mandates but they are in fact reality so why the #### aren't teachers safe now?

 

[Doug B]

I am not okay with making other people's children miss another year of school.  There is a real cost to this sort of policymaking and I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with our willingness to shift that cost to little kids to benefit grown adults.

Are the Chicago teachers asking for more testing and other safety measures, or are they insisting on school closures? I am asking in earnest ... I have not read into this topic in detail. Not sure if you've followed it closely or not.

 

[gianmarco]

Most kids have been back in school for a while. Short term remote learning, especially when those under 20 make up 30% of the cases isn't bad policy if case counts suggest it should be done until this wave peaks.

Losing a couple weeks of in person school is disruptive. Losing family members, which has and continues to happen (sometimes parents themselves) is even more disruptive.

 

[jobarules]

Most kids have been back in school for a while. Short term remote learning, especially when those under 20 make up 30% of the cases isn't bad policy if case counts suggest it should be done until this wave peaks.

Losing a couple weeks of in person school is disruptive. Losing family members, which has and continues to happen (sometimes parents themselves) is even more disruptive.

I agree with this. Case counts too high in a school. Go remote for 10 days.

 

[Biff84]

Probably a bad sign: my wife and I got Covid-19 boosters at Walgreens this morning.  Everything went smoothly.  Went back at 4pm for my daughter's appointment and there was a sign on the door "store is temporarily closed"

Unfortunately that’s gonna happen in a lot of places. Most pharmacies are running on skeleton staffs already due to people quitting and now getting sick. I follow a bunch of pharmacy staff on Twitter and seemingly everyone tested positive or have co-workers who have. One guy had two techs positive, a third who walked out and the other pharmacist tested positive. He’s currently sick and waiting for test results. That’s the entire staff outside two limited students. If he’s negative he will be the only person running the pharmacy.

I’m already preparing for a similar situation at my store. It’s when not if it will happen. I requested a vacation day at the end of the month and was shocked that it got approved.

Was it the pharmacist that gave you the shot?

 

[the rover]

Most kids have been back in school for a while. Short term remote learning, especially when those under 20 make up 30% of the cases isn't bad policy if case counts suggest it should be done until this wave peaks.

Losing a couple weeks of in person school is disruptive. Losing family members, which has and continues to happen (sometimes parents themselves) is even more disruptive.

pretty simple.  

 

[the rover]

Are the Chicago teachers asking for more testing and other safety measures, or are they insisting on school closures? I am asking in earnest ... I have not read into this topic in detail. Not sure if you've followed it closely or not.

they want weekly testing.  the district and city refuse.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

The "strands in a web" argument is why I was in favor of closing schools in spring 2020 and skeptical about reopening in fall 2020.  (I was wrong about fall 2020, fortunately).  

In January 2022, the "strands in a web" argument doesn't apply so well.  The kids are vaccinated, the teachers are vaccinated, and the family members are vaccinated.  Or they should be.  The one definite factor is that kids who are stuck with remote school are being made worse off, possibly and probably permanently, especially the longer we disrupt schools.

I was okay with living in isolation for a year because of the pandemic.  I am not okay with making other people's children miss another year of school.  There is a real cost to this sort of policymaking and I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with our willingness to shift that cost to little kids to benefit grown adults.

Going remote a week or two in order to allow testing and isolation coming off of the holidays while averaging 600k cases per day is not the same as March 2020 and was a more than reasonable solution to prevent further outbreaks. 

 

[Biff84]

I agree with this. Case counts too high in a school. Go remote for 10 days.

I agree. Right now it seems like schools can make the choice to go remote or wait until they are forced to. I really don’t want them in remote and likely won’t choose to take them out if in-person is an option. Maybe my unvaxxed pre-K girl but not the 1st grader.

Another consideration is that there hasn’t been great numbers on the pediatric vaccine yet. Last I heard it was maybe 20-30%.

 

[[icon]]

Shelby County (Memphis) 
+45.01% test positivity

Jesus

 

[ZADO]

Is Omicron as dangerous?  No.  However, it's more contagious.  Therefore, more people will get it.  Therefore, it's going to cause a lot of hospitalizations. 

Hence, bad

If its not dangerous then why go to the hospital? 

 

[Doug B]

"Less dangerous", not "not dangerous".

 

[Biff84]

If its not dangerous then why go to the hospital? 

You’re at least the second person who has misread this he said it’s not AS dangerous as in comparison to Delta infections. It’s still dangerous.

 

[jobarules]

You’re at least the second person who has misread this he said it’s not AS dangerous as in comparison to Delta infections. It’s still dangerous.

I'm the first? I definitely misread it the first time too.

 

[ghostguy123]

If its not dangerous then why go to the hospital? 

Said this 10 times already

Much less dangerous, however much more contagious.

Therefore many more people getting it.

So, if its 10x less dangerous but 10x more people get it.........dangerous.  

Not sure how else to say this for it to sink in

 

[Biff84]

I'm the first? I definitely misread it the first time too.

Maybe, I just remember someone else having the same reaction. Admittedly, I misread it initially.

 

[ZADO]

Said this 10 times already

Much less dangerous, however much more contagious.

Therefore many more people getting it.

So, if its 10x less dangerous but 10x more people get it.........dangerous.  

Not sure how else to say this for it to sink in

what would be the point you felt you needed to go to a hospital? Fever? coughing? muscle aches? night sweats ? 

For me it would not be any of the above ,it would have to involve scary level breathing issues

 

[[icon]]

Direct Quote from a discussion tonight with female cop friend tonight: 

"Which ever. Still Less likely to get it. The more shots you get the easier it is to get it in my world. I don’t know where y’all work or what type of folks y’all are around but in the police world. Only never had covid people and vaccinated people are getting sick. From the where ever this #### came from covid.

Look into some different studies that focus on the ‘covid’ immunity as you call it.  As you know they also block things that go against their findings. I remember when you could find articles of people who did the same study and came out with different results.  It use to be a thing." 
 

My response paraphrased:

"That's not being 'blocked', that's called peer-review... and they failed it." 

 

[GroveDiesel]

Both administrations were good at getting the tests to the market.   Neither was good at getting them to the people.   I agree that both missed the boat on what an important tool testing is to understand and limit spread.    

Actually, they’ve been pretty miserable at getting tests to market. Europe has way more tests approved than we do. The FDA is so freaking slow to approve stuff and it continually creates problems that shouldn’t exist.

 

[the rover]

Said this 10 times already

Much less dangerous, however much more contagious.

Therefore many more people getting it.

So, if its 10x less dangerous but 10x more people get it.........dangerous.  

Not sure how else to say this for it to sink in

Google "law of large numbers," deniers.

 

[jobarules]

Google "law of large numbers," deniers.

That's not the law of large numbers but nice try

 

[Desert_Power]

700k cases and 1.8k deaths reported on the most recent day per Worldometers :(

 

[fatness]

Teachers should be forced to be exposed and to infect their families?   If the teachers get sick and die, does that help the kids learn?

Do the vaccines not exist in thus reality?

Yes, if I happen to need a hospital in the next month, I agree that would be bad.

At the individual (micro level) covid for the fully vaxxed is not bad or a concern

At the macro level it is bad until the curve declines

 

[fatness]

Everyone involved except for the immunocompromised should be fully vaccinated, and they're never going to be fully vaccinated.  It is time to move on. 

Dream on.

It's a highly contagious virus, currently filling up hospitals in the US. "Move on" means ignoring that. Might be a comfy choice for you, but urging others to stop talking about it is futile because most people care about it more than they care about making you feel comfortable.

 

[fatness]

Copied early today from here --- % increase or decrease in hospitalizations in states over last 7 days. The numbers are likely different now since it keeps updating. There are some informative graphs and tables there.

 South Carolina    +1781.5
 Guam            +324.6
 Alaska        +254.2
 Arkansas        +211.5
 US Virgin Islands  +195.9
 Mississippi    +190.2
 Louisiana        +189.5
 Utah            +188.2
 North Carolina    +178.8
 Texas        +177.6
 Alabama        +170.6
 California        +162.9
 Nevada        +159.2
 Delaware        +154.5
 Wyoming        +144.5
 Oregon        +144.4
 Tennessee        +137.6
 Montana        +134.2
 Vermont        +129.6
 Rhode Island    +127.6
 West Virginia    +125.8
 North Dakota    +120.6
 New Mexico        +116.1
 Virginia        +113.9
 Florida        +112.6
 Massachusetts    +110.9
 Nebraska        +109.3
 South Dakota    +109.1
 Colorado        +106.9
 Kentucky        +105.1
 Oklahoma        +104.5
 Missouri        +102.9
 Arizona        +102.4
 Georgia        +98.8
 Pennsylvania    +98.8
 Puerto Rico    +95.4
 Indiana        +93.1
 New Jersey        +91.1
 Michigan        +83.7
 Hawaii        +83
 Kansas        +82.6
 Connecticut    +82.1
 New York        +80.8
 Minnesota        +73.2
 Washington        +70.7
 Idaho        +69.8
 Iowa            +67.2
 Maryland        +64.4
 Wisconsin        +58.1
 Ohio            +57
 Illinois        +47
 New Hampshire    +29.1
 Northern Mariana Islands    +28.9
 District of Columbia        +2.5
 American Samoa     -
 US Military      -
 Maine        -4.8
 

 

[fatness]

Changing subjects...

My wife's best friend's (who is unvaxxed) elderly parent in laws told her they won't watch the kids anymore because the kids are unvaxxed and the best friend got mad at THEM. 

Some people

The nerve of elderly people wanting to protect their health instead of babysitting.

 

[gianmarco]

Record number of admissions here

1,023 people admitted here today with Covid. Of those, 29% are vaccinated. Of those, 98% have not received a booster.

Out of 1,023 people in the hospital, only 5 have received vaccination + booster.

Also out of those, 61 are pediatric patients with 14 of them in the ICU. Most of them are under the age of 11.

Things are looking great!

 

[fatness]

It's incredible how contagious the omicron variant is.

"The Utah Department of Health on Wednesday reported 7,247 new coronavirus cases — the most cases ever reported in a single day throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. And even that number is likely an undercount, state epidemiologist Dr. Leisha Nolen told reporters in a conversation over Zoom, as people are using at-home tests more often.

“Omicron has changed the landscape since its arrival last month,” the state health department said in a statement, referring to the rapidly spreading coronavirus variant. “The number of cases we are reporting today is more than the total number of cases we reported over the first 68 days of the pandemic, combined.”

Previously, Utah’s single-day record of new cases fell on Dec. 30, 2020, when 4,706 new coronavirus cases were reported. That’s 2,541 fewer cases than reported Wednesday."

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2022/01/05/utah-reports-more-than/

 

[fatness]

In Maryland.

"Montgomery County Public Schools announced Wednesday that COVID-19 incidence at 115 additional schools had met the threshold for virtual learning, a day after saying that 11 schools would close to in-person classes."

 

[fatness]

What's needed is a mass of unvaccinated types to realize this is a real ongoing thing and they're helping keep it going.

I agree.

How does wagging our collective finger at vaccinated and boosted people for living their lives normally help accomplish that goal?

I've never found finger wagging particularly effective but you go ahead and do it if it's right for you.

Government agencies and large companies mandating vaccinations at work, works. Every time we hear "10% or more of employees expected not to comply with vaccination mandates" it turns out to be less that 1% who end up quitting their job over it.  The attached cost of their refusal to gets vaccinated is high enough that 9 out of 10 of them get vaccinated.Businesses inviting the public (theaters, music halls, restaurants, bars, gyms) requiring proof of vaccination for entry works. Vaccinated people get it; people who don't want to get vaccinated are denied entry and pay that price. It's a small price compared to the harm the unvaccinated cause the health care system and the health of others, but it's a price. Seems fair to me.

 

[Terminalxylem]

For what it's worth, I'll just throw this out there.

The resident doctors I talk to who rotate through the ICUs tell me basically every covid patient is unvaxxed.

I wonder what the numbers are right now on new people going into healthcare.  I cant imagine the numbers are going UP

I don't think this will stop people from going to medical school, as there are still far more applicants than training positions. At the worst, they may need to lower the qualifications, but med school is so competitive, it won't matter in the end.

It will probably exacerbate the primary care shortage, however, as trainees will have even more incentive to specialize. 

 

[Terminalxylem]

Question regarding getting the booster shot after a positive covid test.

I was scheduled to get my booster today, but my wife told me that with my positive test from last week, I needed to wait...so I bailed on the appointment.

How long after my positive do I need to wait to get the booster? Or do I need to get my info from a non-wife source moving forward (she's far more on top of all of this than I am)?

You can get it as soon as you're not isolated, though the optimal timing is unclear. The oft-cited "wait 90 days" is not evidence-based, and probably conflated with the period one is suggested to wait after receiving antibody therapy. CDC FAQ, last ? under "booster doses"

Yes. People 16 years of age and older who experience COVID-19 after being fully vaccinated can receive a booster dose. People with known current SARS-CoV-2 infection should defer vaccination at least until they have recovered from the acute illness (if they had symptoms) and have met criteria to discontinue isolation. Current evidence about the optimal timing between SARS-CoV-2 infection and vaccination is insufficient to inform guidance.

 

[Terminalxylem]

What’s protocol on vaccination scheduling and being exposed to possible/probable covid infected individual?

I'm scheduled for round 1 tomorrow.  My wife (*Borat voice*) is sick and has been since Sunday.  She was around and with people who tested positive prior to coming down with whatever she now has.  There’s no at-home tests anywhere and scheduling through any facilities that offer testing are booked til next week.  She’s mostly better by today with lingering meh-ness.  She’s isolating in spare bedroom, but clearly I was around her before the bottom fell out on her.

Do I cancel/reschedule or go for it?  I haven’t felt anything outside of normal allergies from ragweed season

In the absence of testing, I'd wait until next week. That will give you some time to develop symptoms and/or virus to clear the system if you're asymptomatic. If you get symptoms, wait until you're off isolation.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Sure, I agree.  Obviously their parents and grandparents should be vaccinated by now.  If for no other reason than helping society keep schools open so their kids and grandkids can get a quality education. 

One thing that people like me find extremely frustrating about this situation is the tendency to punish people who haven't really done anything obviously wrong to protect people who have really done something obviously wrong.  Vaccinated kids and their vaccinated family members are not the people who are causing issues with the pandemic.  It is not March 2020 any more.  Everyone involved except for the immunocompromised should be fully vaccinated, and they're never going to be fully vaccinated.  It is time to move on.  There are real costs involved with school disruptions.

Your position would make sense if more than a minority of the population was fully vaccinated. Currently, around 71 million people (out of ~250 million adults) have received booster shots.  And we know boosters don't protect as well/long against omicron, plus a subset of boosted peeps are immunocompromised. Plenty of those people will get really sick from covid, as will many unvaccinated individuals. 

The downstream consequences of "moving on" in our reality are undue burden on the healthcare system, and a lot of businesses operating short-handed. That punishes everyone.

I know you realize all this Ivan, yet you keep banging the return to normalcy drum. You also probably know when intelligent people repeatedly articulate opinions like yours, it influences less thoughtful people to act irresponsibly. That's not your fault, of course, but what are you trying to accomplish?

As an individual without school-aged children, how exactly are you being punished? Being asked to wear a mask in public, or carry a vaccine card? Updating your booster? How do these "punishments" compare to the prospects of having non-emergent healthcare and other short-staffed services compromised/delayed? What about burning out healthcare personnel, who've done nothing "obviously wrong?" 

 

[Terminalxylem]

what would be the point you felt you needed to go to a hospital? Fever? coughing? muscle aches? night sweats ? 

For me it would not be any of the above ,it would have to involve scary level breathing issues

You're right. The same basic philosophy should apply to anyone choosing to go to the ER.

But people aren't getting admitted for inconsequential complaints. So while your strategy may offload ER workload a bit, it won't change the number of hospitalizations.

 

[zoobird]

Was it the pharmacist that gave you the shot?

Yes. 

Weirdly, while she was giving the shot, she told us that she hadn't realized that Advil can help fevers until her mom told her recently...and that she still recommends Tylenol, since "that's the one I've always known helps with fevers, so I assume it's stronger".

 

[IvanKaramazov]

As an individual without school-aged children, how exactly are you being punished? 

Not at all.  To be clear, it makes absolutely no difference in my life at all whether schools are open or closed, in-person or remote, or whatever.  I care about K-12 education policy for the same reason that I care about space exploration, US foreign policy on Taiwan, AI research, and hundreds of other topics that have some level of social importance even if they don't affect me personally.  

I mean, I don't work in a hospital, but you expect me to care about your work conditions.  Why is it so hard to understand why I might also care about whether some random 6th grader goes to school or not?

 

[The Commish]

Lack of information is causing a lot of confusion. Here in Idaho, hospitals are filling up and it's all Delta from the holiday surge but all you hear about is omicron and how it is mild. We aren't past delta yet. I know there are reports of 95% being omicron but I'm not buying it.

We have a ton of Delta still here in Florida.  Just shows how impactful vaccines can be.  There are large parts of the country through the Delta wave then there are the parts of the country lagging in vaccinations who are still dealing with it.  I don't pay attention to vaccination stats in other parts of the country, but if I had to guess I'd say Idaho is likely under 60% vaccinated, yes?  We passed that milestone several months back but it's still not enough to keep Delta at bay.

 

[ghostguy123]

what would be the point you felt you needed to go to a hospital? Fever? coughing? muscle aches? night sweats ? 

For me it would not be any of the above ,it would have to involve scary level breathing issues

Rewind back two years ago.  When would you go to the hospital?  Would you just lay there for three days with a fever, chills, body aches, and cough?  Most people would go to the hospital because, well, there are other illnesses not names Covid out there that would require medical attention so like, ya know, you dont become severely ill.  It could be infection requiring antibiotics.

Those illnesses still exist believe it or not, and they still require medical attention.

However there is a problem right now.  It is VERY hard to be seen by a regular general practitioner.  Most of them are either sick or not seeing patients in person (mine is only doing zoom appointments).  They doctors that are seeing patients are all booked up.

So, you are sick as a dog and are unable to see a doctor in person, what do you do?  Sit around and just hope and pray you actually have Covid?   That's where we are at??

I will tell you this also.  If you sit around and wait until you have scary level breathing issues, it may be too late for you.  It may take you up to a full day to get any care even if you do go to an emergency department.  

Hospital were busy before Covid.  Right now it's quite scary how long you will need to wait when you need legit medical care.

 

[ghostguy123]

I don't think this will stop people from going to medical school, as there are still far more applicants than training positions. At the worst, they may need to lower the qualifications, but med school is so competitive, it won't matter in the end.

It will probably exacerbate the primary care shortage, however, as trainees will have even more incentive to specialize. 

Even if it's true that med schools will still be packed (which I disagree with) nurses and assistive staff make up the bulk of people working in the hospitals.  I would venture to guess less 18 year olds are going to be looking into nursing coming out of school, especially if any of them have seen a hospital in the past two years or watched 5 minutes of the news.

 

[jobarules]

Rewind back two years ago.  When would you go to the hospital?  Would you just lay there for three days with a fever, chills, body aches, and cough?  Most people would go to the hospital because, well, there are other illnesses not names Covid out there that would require medical attention so like, ya know, you dont become severely ill.  It could be infection requiring antibiotics.

Really? Id got to my doctor or urgent care. 

 

[ZADO]

You're right. The same basic philosophy should apply to anyone choosing to go to the ER.

But people aren't getting admitted for inconsequential complaints. So while your strategy may offload ER workload a bit, it won't change the number of hospitalizations.

No they may not be getting admitted but they are tying up hospital staff needlessly ,vaccinated or not. I even provided a link about a tv report in Vermont showing the Hospital is being overrun by people who aren't even showing any symptoms

 

[ghostguy123]

Really? Id got to my doctor or urgent care. 

Any reason you didnt read the rest of my post?  Also, your doctor and the urgent care = hospital.

Where do you go when your doctor and urgent care are not available?

 

[jobarules]

Any reason you didnt read the rest of my post?  Also, your doctor and the urgent care = hospital.

Where do you go when your doctor and urgent care are not available?

You said two years ago if you were sick for 3 days most people would goto the hospital. Now you are saying the hospital = urgent care?

And I did read the rest of your post. It was irrelevant to the part I was responding to.

 

[ghostguy123]

You said two years ago if you were sick for 3 days most people would goto the hospital. Now you are saying the hospital = urgent care?

Good grief.  How bout "people would go seek medical attention"?  Thet better for you?

Quit being so intentionally obtuse.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Study raises doubts about rapid Covid tests’ reliability in early days after infection

small sample size study, but still doesn't exactly give you the warm and fuzzies about rapid testing in Omicron days