*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (12 Viewers)

[Nathan R. Jessep]

Cliff's notes on today's ACIP meeting. It was a regularly scheduled meeting, but today's focused on Covid vaccines (safety, scheduling, etc.)

Today's ACIP meeting Cliff notes

This week ACIP—CDC’s external advisory group of scientists—met to discuss all vaccines. This was part of their regularly scheduled meeting (i.e., these happen with or without a pandemic). This morning they focused on COVID-19 vaccines. This discussion was much anticipated because it follows the...

yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com

 

[Battersbox]

I was curious to see what reality was regarding masks since I haven't paid a bit of attention to any of the mask policies for the better part of a year. Until the "concerns" were raised in this thread just a day or two ago I can't tell you the last time I even thought about a mask.

Here's the current situation

TL'DR: Not a single state has a state mandate for masks. Most of the local municipalities that had them dropped them in 2022.

If nothing else, you need to click the link, scroll to the bottom and read all the comments...comedy gold.

Since the start of the pandemic, I have never understood why masks got people’s blood boiling so much. Is it an American thing? Are there other countries where asking someone to wear a mask is like asking them to sacrifice thier first born? And then to continue to be upset simply by seeing me wearing one. It’s crazy.

whatever you do, don't call them "triggered"...you end up on a merry-go-round to nowhere as their triggeredness is on full display.

Again, juvenile.

Put me on ignore....You've spent the last two pages completely distorting the mandate situation in this country as it stands today to support doing all this doomsday "what if" nonsense. Call it whatever other word you want, but your actions in this thread are textbook as I pointed out in my very first comment to you. You're no better than those shouting from the rooftops that everyone should be masked when they step foot out of their houses. Well done?

I didn't distort anything. I posted 2 links (after they were asked for).

What exactly do you disagree about these statements?

1. Everyone should have the right to choose whether to mask or not.
2. One possible effect of people continuing to mask is it could encourage those in authority to institute mask mandates
3. Even if I believe #2 is true (which I do, to some degree), I still support peoples rights to continue to mask when they wish because their personal agency outweighs any risks from #2

None of these suggest I'm triggered. And none of these suggest I'm the same as those who 'shout from the rooftops that everyone should be masked'.
Instead of making snide comments about me to the general board why not engage with what I've actually said?

Your assertion is that .0003% of the US population behaving in fashion "X" MIGHT embolden a huge set of our population to also do "X" in the future. That's what #2 boils down to. That is EXACTLY the same sort of fear and irrational thought in the minds of those that think everyone needs to be wearing a mask to stay alive.

I've already told you three times now that I am on board with your #1 and agree 100%...I did that in the VERY FIRST reply. Since that reply, you've walked back "millions" to "hundreds of thousands". I see no evidence of this assertion though. I've provided you the reality of government driven mandates. If you're really for private choice, then you're ok with private businesses doing what's best for them. Feel free not to support them in their efforts. We are not in danger of a massive set of gov't driven mandates for COVID anymore (unless something with the virus changes in a significant way) and Joe Bob continuing with the requirement in his private place of business isn't going to change that into some national movement.

We agree on #1, great.

You may disagree on #2, doesn't matter. It's pure speculation. It was an answer to another poster's question.
I guess I 'walked back' millions to hundreds of thousands, sure. I didn't look at it too deeply. I was asked for a link and quickly googled one. The story mentioned several high-population states where there were recent mask mandates for school kids. It doesn't matter though: it was LOT of kids who were mandated to mask all day in school in 2023. I think that's wrong and damaging to them.

Masking 10's of thousands of kids doesn't have to be a path for masking millions of kids for me to disapprove. Do you approve of the recent mandates?

Which ones? This isn't black/white. What I will say is that I"m good with local municipalities doing what they think is right for their little piece of society. I am unaware of any schools mandating masks at this point, so if they were implemented in 2023, it was for a short period of time. That said, I am not a fan of mandates in general, but will make exceptions on occasion, depending on the circumstance. Give me the details of what was required and the conditions of the environment at that time and I can better answer. I'm not a big fan of seatbelt laws for example. My view is if you want to be dumb and not wear one, that's on you. The difference of course is in that situation, it's a decision that impacts you alone. When we talk about laws/rules/mandates that impact others it takes on a completely different tone for me and I then look at what level the mandate is coming from. I'm generally more ok with mandates when they are as specific as possible taking into account what the requirement impacts.

I disagree with the local mandates for masking children in school that took place in place in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusettes last month. I think there the net benefit is not there. You think those might be okay, we disagree.

I don't know anything about them to agree or disagree. Curious how you know enough about those local situations to determine benefit or lack thereof?

I'd be hard-pressed to be upset with my kids' schools if they required everyone to wear a mask because 20% of the students were out sick with COVID and they couldn't find enough teachers to man classrooms. Of course, this was our real situation here in Florida during Delta and the schools weren't allowed to require masks by the state....that went on for over a month.

On the other hand I'd label "absurd" a school district/community that had no meaningful struggle with the virus yet still maintained rigid mask requirements.

Yes, we disagree. Kids shouldn't be masked in school to protect from this virus. The benefit does not outweigh the harms. You are comfortable with some mandates, that's fine, I get it.

 

[Scoresman]

I was curious to see what reality was regarding masks since I haven't paid a bit of attention to any of the mask policies for the better part of a year. Until the "concerns" were raised in this thread just a day or two ago I can't tell you the last time I even thought about a mask.

Here's the current situation

TL'DR: Not a single state has a state mandate for masks. Most of the local municipalities that had them dropped them in 2022.

If nothing else, you need to click the link, scroll to the bottom and read all the comments...comedy gold.

Since the start of the pandemic, I have never understood why masks got people’s blood boiling so much. Is it an American thing? Are there other countries where asking someone to wear a mask is like asking them to sacrifice thier first born? And then to continue to be upset simply by seeing me wearing one. It’s crazy.

whatever you do, don't call them "triggered"...you end up on a merry-go-round to nowhere as their triggeredness is on full display.

Again, juvenile.

Put me on ignore....You've spent the last two pages completely distorting the mandate situation in this country as it stands today to support doing all this doomsday "what if" nonsense. Call it whatever other word you want, but your actions in this thread are textbook as I pointed out in my very first comment to you. You're no better than those shouting from the rooftops that everyone should be masked when they step foot out of their houses. Well done?

I didn't distort anything. I posted 2 links (after they were asked for).

What exactly do you disagree about these statements?

1. Everyone should have the right to choose whether to mask or not.
2. One possible effect of people continuing to mask is it could encourage those in authority to institute mask mandates
3. Even if I believe #2 is true (which I do, to some degree), I still support peoples rights to continue to mask when they wish because their personal agency outweighs any risks from #2

None of these suggest I'm triggered. And none of these suggest I'm the same as those who 'shout from the rooftops that everyone should be masked'.
Instead of making snide comments about me to the general board why not engage with what I've actually said?

Your assertion is that .0003% of the US population behaving in fashion "X" MIGHT embolden a huge set of our population to also do "X" in the future. That's what #2 boils down to. That is EXACTLY the same sort of fear and irrational thought in the minds of those that think everyone needs to be wearing a mask to stay alive.

I've already told you three times now that I am on board with your #1 and agree 100%...I did that in the VERY FIRST reply. Since that reply, you've walked back "millions" to "hundreds of thousands". I see no evidence of this assertion though. I've provided you the reality of government driven mandates. If you're really for private choice, then you're ok with private businesses doing what's best for them. Feel free not to support them in their efforts. We are not in danger of a massive set of gov't driven mandates for COVID anymore (unless something with the virus changes in a significant way) and Joe Bob continuing with the requirement in his private place of business isn't going to change that into some national movement.

We agree on #1, great.

You may disagree on #2, doesn't matter. It's pure speculation. It was an answer to another poster's question.
I guess I 'walked back' millions to hundreds of thousands, sure. I didn't look at it too deeply. I was asked for a link and quickly googled one. The story mentioned several high-population states where there were recent mask mandates for school kids. It doesn't matter though: it was LOT of kids who were mandated to mask all day in school in 2023. I think that's wrong and damaging to them.

Masking 10's of thousands of kids doesn't have to be a path for masking millions of kids for me to disapprove. Do you approve of the recent mandates?

Which ones? This isn't black/white. What I will say is that I"m good with local municipalities doing what they think is right for their little piece of society. I am unaware of any schools mandating masks at this point, so if they were implemented in 2023, it was for a short period of time. That said, I am not a fan of mandates in general, but will make exceptions on occasion, depending on the circumstance. Give me the details of what was required and the conditions of the environment at that time and I can better answer. I'm not a big fan of seatbelt laws for example. My view is if you want to be dumb and not wear one, that's on you. The difference of course is in that situation, it's a decision that impacts you alone. When we talk about laws/rules/mandates that impact others it takes on a completely different tone for me and I then look at what level the mandate is coming from. I'm generally more ok with mandates when they are as specific as possible taking into account what the requirement impacts.

I disagree with the local mandates for masking children in school that took place in place in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusettes last month. I think there the net benefit is not there. You think those might be okay, we disagree.

I don't know anything about them to agree or disagree. Curious how you know enough about those local situations to determine benefit or lack thereof?

I'd be hard-pressed to be upset with my kids' schools if they required everyone to wear a mask because 20% of the students were out sick with COVID and they couldn't find enough teachers to man classrooms. Of course, this was our real situation here in Florida during Delta and the schools weren't allowed to require masks by the state....that went on for over a month.

On the other hand I'd label "absurd" a school district/community that had no meaningful struggle with the virus yet still maintained rigid mask requirements.

Yes, we disagree. Kids shouldn't be masked in school to protect from this virus. The benefit does not outweigh the harms. You are comfortable with some mandates, that's fine, I get it.

I must have missed this the last time I asked. What exactly is the harm from kids wearing masks in school?

 

[Battersbox]

I was curious to see what reality was regarding masks since I haven't paid a bit of attention to any of the mask policies for the better part of a year. Until the "concerns" were raised in this thread just a day or two ago I can't tell you the last time I even thought about a mask.

Here's the current situation

TL'DR: Not a single state has a state mandate for masks. Most of the local municipalities that had them dropped them in 2022.

If nothing else, you need to click the link, scroll to the bottom and read all the comments...comedy gold.

Since the start of the pandemic, I have never understood why masks got people’s blood boiling so much. Is it an American thing? Are there other countries where asking someone to wear a mask is like asking them to sacrifice thier first born? And then to continue to be upset simply by seeing me wearing one. It’s crazy.

whatever you do, don't call them "triggered"...you end up on a merry-go-round to nowhere as their triggeredness is on full display.

Again, juvenile.

Put me on ignore....You've spent the last two pages completely distorting the mandate situation in this country as it stands today to support doing all this doomsday "what if" nonsense. Call it whatever other word you want, but your actions in this thread are textbook as I pointed out in my very first comment to you. You're no better than those shouting from the rooftops that everyone should be masked when they step foot out of their houses. Well done?

I didn't distort anything. I posted 2 links (after they were asked for).

What exactly do you disagree about these statements?

1. Everyone should have the right to choose whether to mask or not.
2. One possible effect of people continuing to mask is it could encourage those in authority to institute mask mandates
3. Even if I believe #2 is true (which I do, to some degree), I still support peoples rights to continue to mask when they wish because their personal agency outweighs any risks from #2

None of these suggest I'm triggered. And none of these suggest I'm the same as those who 'shout from the rooftops that everyone should be masked'.
Instead of making snide comments about me to the general board why not engage with what I've actually said?

Your assertion is that .0003% of the US population behaving in fashion "X" MIGHT embolden a huge set of our population to also do "X" in the future. That's what #2 boils down to. That is EXACTLY the same sort of fear and irrational thought in the minds of those that think everyone needs to be wearing a mask to stay alive.

I've already told you three times now that I am on board with your #1 and agree 100%...I did that in the VERY FIRST reply. Since that reply, you've walked back "millions" to "hundreds of thousands". I see no evidence of this assertion though. I've provided you the reality of government driven mandates. If you're really for private choice, then you're ok with private businesses doing what's best for them. Feel free not to support them in their efforts. We are not in danger of a massive set of gov't driven mandates for COVID anymore (unless something with the virus changes in a significant way) and Joe Bob continuing with the requirement in his private place of business isn't going to change that into some national movement.

We agree on #1, great.

You may disagree on #2, doesn't matter. It's pure speculation. It was an answer to another poster's question.
I guess I 'walked back' millions to hundreds of thousands, sure. I didn't look at it too deeply. I was asked for a link and quickly googled one. The story mentioned several high-population states where there were recent mask mandates for school kids. It doesn't matter though: it was LOT of kids who were mandated to mask all day in school in 2023. I think that's wrong and damaging to them.

Masking 10's of thousands of kids doesn't have to be a path for masking millions of kids for me to disapprove. Do you approve of the recent mandates?

Which ones? This isn't black/white. What I will say is that I"m good with local municipalities doing what they think is right for their little piece of society. I am unaware of any schools mandating masks at this point, so if they were implemented in 2023, it was for a short period of time. That said, I am not a fan of mandates in general, but will make exceptions on occasion, depending on the circumstance. Give me the details of what was required and the conditions of the environment at that time and I can better answer. I'm not a big fan of seatbelt laws for example. My view is if you want to be dumb and not wear one, that's on you. The difference of course is in that situation, it's a decision that impacts you alone. When we talk about laws/rules/mandates that impact others it takes on a completely different tone for me and I then look at what level the mandate is coming from. I'm generally more ok with mandates when they are as specific as possible taking into account what the requirement impacts.

I disagree with the local mandates for masking children in school that took place in place in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusettes last month. I think there the net benefit is not there. You think those might be okay, we disagree.

I don't know anything about them to agree or disagree. Curious how you know enough about those local situations to determine benefit or lack thereof?

I'd be hard-pressed to be upset with my kids' schools if they required everyone to wear a mask because 20% of the students were out sick with COVID and they couldn't find enough teachers to man classrooms. Of course, this was our real situation here in Florida during Delta and the schools weren't allowed to require masks by the state....that went on for over a month.

On the other hand I'd label "absurd" a school district/community that had no meaningful struggle with the virus yet still maintained rigid mask requirements.

Yes, we disagree. Kids shouldn't be masked in school to protect from this virus. The benefit does not outweigh the harms. You are comfortable with some mandates, that's fine, I get it.

I must have missed this the last time I asked. What exactly is the harm from kids wearing masks in school?

Sigh.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I must have missed this the last time I asked. What exactly is the harm from kids wearing masks in school?

Aside from the obvious issues with socialization and speech development, you've had multiple people who are K-12 teachers tell you in this thread that masks make communication more difficult. If you want to tell us that you're okay with those downsides and you think they're worth it to accomplish whatever it is you think that masks are accomplishing in schools, cool. At this point, you're kind of telling on yourself by admitting that you can't even see those downsides.

Edit: Seriously, this question is being asked in such bad faith that it makes me that much more confident in my assessment that you're lying (either to yourself or to us) about your support for continued mandates.

 

[Scoresman]

I must have missed this the last time I asked. What exactly is the harm from kids wearing masks in school?

Aside from the obvious issues with socialization and speech development, you've had multiple people who are K-12 teachers tell you in this thread that masks make communication more difficult. If you want to tell us that you're okay with those downsides and you think they're worth it to accomplish whatever it is you think that masks are accomplishing in schools, cool. At this point, you're kind of telling on yourself by admitting that you can't even see those downsides.

Edit: Seriously, this question is being asked in such bad faith that it makes me that much more confident in my assessment that you're lying (either to yourself or to us) about your support for continued mandates.

I'm not ok with those downsides and I legitimately have not seen them posted in the thread, but go ahead and keep making wrong assumptions. Is was an honest question. Have there been studies on this? I know its an anecdote, but I have lots of children nieces/nephews/friends who did not experience these issues.

 

[The Commish]

I was curious to see what reality was regarding masks since I haven't paid a bit of attention to any of the mask policies for the better part of a year. Until the "concerns" were raised in this thread just a day or two ago I can't tell you the last time I even thought about a mask.

Here's the current situation

TL'DR: Not a single state has a state mandate for masks. Most of the local municipalities that had them dropped them in 2022.

If nothing else, you need to click the link, scroll to the bottom and read all the comments...comedy gold.

Since the start of the pandemic, I have never understood why masks got people’s blood boiling so much. Is it an American thing? Are there other countries where asking someone to wear a mask is like asking them to sacrifice thier first born? And then to continue to be upset simply by seeing me wearing one. It’s crazy.

whatever you do, don't call them "triggered"...you end up on a merry-go-round to nowhere as their triggeredness is on full display.

Again, juvenile.

Put me on ignore....You've spent the last two pages completely distorting the mandate situation in this country as it stands today to support doing all this doomsday "what if" nonsense. Call it whatever other word you want, but your actions in this thread are textbook as I pointed out in my very first comment to you. You're no better than those shouting from the rooftops that everyone should be masked when they step foot out of their houses. Well done?

I didn't distort anything. I posted 2 links (after they were asked for).

What exactly do you disagree about these statements?

1. Everyone should have the right to choose whether to mask or not.
2. One possible effect of people continuing to mask is it could encourage those in authority to institute mask mandates
3. Even if I believe #2 is true (which I do, to some degree), I still support peoples rights to continue to mask when they wish because their personal agency outweighs any risks from #2

None of these suggest I'm triggered. And none of these suggest I'm the same as those who 'shout from the rooftops that everyone should be masked'.
Instead of making snide comments about me to the general board why not engage with what I've actually said?

Your assertion is that .0003% of the US population behaving in fashion "X" MIGHT embolden a huge set of our population to also do "X" in the future. That's what #2 boils down to. That is EXACTLY the same sort of fear and irrational thought in the minds of those that think everyone needs to be wearing a mask to stay alive.

I've already told you three times now that I am on board with your #1 and agree 100%...I did that in the VERY FIRST reply. Since that reply, you've walked back "millions" to "hundreds of thousands". I see no evidence of this assertion though. I've provided you the reality of government driven mandates. If you're really for private choice, then you're ok with private businesses doing what's best for them. Feel free not to support them in their efforts. We are not in danger of a massive set of gov't driven mandates for COVID anymore (unless something with the virus changes in a significant way) and Joe Bob continuing with the requirement in his private place of business isn't going to change that into some national movement.

We agree on #1, great.

You may disagree on #2, doesn't matter. It's pure speculation. It was an answer to another poster's question.
I guess I 'walked back' millions to hundreds of thousands, sure. I didn't look at it too deeply. I was asked for a link and quickly googled one. The story mentioned several high-population states where there were recent mask mandates for school kids. It doesn't matter though: it was LOT of kids who were mandated to mask all day in school in 2023. I think that's wrong and damaging to them.

Masking 10's of thousands of kids doesn't have to be a path for masking millions of kids for me to disapprove. Do you approve of the recent mandates?

Which ones? This isn't black/white. What I will say is that I"m good with local municipalities doing what they think is right for their little piece of society. I am unaware of any schools mandating masks at this point, so if they were implemented in 2023, it was for a short period of time. That said, I am not a fan of mandates in general, but will make exceptions on occasion, depending on the circumstance. Give me the details of what was required and the conditions of the environment at that time and I can better answer. I'm not a big fan of seatbelt laws for example. My view is if you want to be dumb and not wear one, that's on you. The difference of course is in that situation, it's a decision that impacts you alone. When we talk about laws/rules/mandates that impact others it takes on a completely different tone for me and I then look at what level the mandate is coming from. I'm generally more ok with mandates when they are as specific as possible taking into account what the requirement impacts.

I disagree with the local mandates for masking children in school that took place in place in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Massachusettes last month. I think there the net benefit is not there. You think those might be okay, we disagree.

I don't know anything about them to agree or disagree. Curious how you know enough about those local situations to determine benefit or lack thereof?

I'd be hard-pressed to be upset with my kids' schools if they required everyone to wear a mask because 20% of the students were out sick with COVID and they couldn't find enough teachers to man classrooms. Of course, this was our real situation here in Florida during Delta and the schools weren't allowed to require masks by the state....that went on for over a month.

On the other hand I'd label "absurd" a school district/community that had no meaningful struggle with the virus yet still maintained rigid mask requirements.

Yes, we disagree. Kids shouldn't be masked in school to protect from this virus. The benefit does not outweigh the harms. You are comfortable with some mandates, that's fine, I get it.

What part of my comments did you disagree with? Me thinking it's pointless for kids to be in school when a good portion of their class is at home and over half of their teachers are at home or me labeling "absurd" a school district/community that had no meaningful struggle with the virus yet still maintained the mask requirements?

 

[Scoresman]

Nobody I know who continues to mask is in any way in favor of mandates, including myself. There will always be fringe opinions on the matter. Mandates aren't coming back, unless we get an ebola variant or something.

I don't believe you. I feel very confident that if you had a few more voters on your side, you would absolutely be advocating for continued mandates. The reason why I'm so confident about that is because you and other folks like you were doing exactly that this time last year, when conditions on the ground were not meaningfully different than today.

I just went through a bunch of posts looking for info I may have missed from the other day and this one stood out. This is ridiculous. You are ridiculous to post this. If I was in favor of mandates I would say so. I've said multiple times I was in favor of them early on when we did not have vaccines and other ways to treat COVID. Now that we do, I see no need for it. For them to mandate the right kind of mask at this point is logistically impossible and any benefit does not outweigh the negatives. Masking is a personal choice.

If you feel my posts in this thread are lies, go ahead and put me on ignore so I don't have to read these kinds of responses.

 

[LawFitz]

Justin Hart
@justin_hart

To repeat. They. Got. EVERYTHING. Wrong.
Transmission of the disease—wrong
• Asymptomatic spread—wrong
• PCR testing—wrong
• Fatality rate—wrong
• Lockdowns—wrong
• Community triggers—wrong
• Business closures—wrong
• School closures—wrong
• Quarantining healthy people—wrong
• Impact on youth—wrong
• Hospital overload—wrong
• Plexiglass barriers—wrong
• Social distancing—wrong
• Outdoor spread—wrong
• Masks—wrong
• Variant impact—wrong
• Natural immunity—wrong
• Vaccine efficacy—wrong
• Vaccine injury—wrong

Did they get a SINGLE thing right?
1:02 PM · Feb 23, 2023

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Justin Hart
@justin_hart

To repeat. They. Got. EVERYTHING. Wrong.
Transmission of the disease—wrong
• Asymptomatic spread—wrong
• PCR testing—wrong
• Fatality rate—wrong
• Lockdowns—wrong
• Community triggers—wrong
• Business closures—wrong
• School closures—wrong
• Quarantining healthy people—wrong
• Impact on youth—wrong
• Hospital overload—wrong
• Plexiglass barriers—wrong
• Social distancing—wrong
• Outdoor spread—wrong
• Masks—wrong
• Variant impact—wrong
• Natural immunity—wrong
• Vaccine efficacy—wrong
• Vaccine injury—wrong

Did they get a SINGLE thing right?
1:02 PM · Feb 23, 2023

This is just not true.

 

[Schmeabs]

Wall Street analyst dives deep into the statistical evidence supporting the 'thesis' that the Covid vaxxes have caused tremendous injury and death across the world. Worth a watch for those willing to face the music, even though it absolutely sucks...

Tucker Carlson Interviews Ed Dowd (Complete, Unedited Interview)

Tucker Carlson interviews Ed Dowd. Excerpt from Tucker Carlson Tonight: https://www.foxnews.com/video/6321006774112 Full Program: https://rumble.com/v2b09g2-tucker-carlson-today-sudden-death-epidemic-

rumble.com

Wow

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I must have missed this the last time I asked. What exactly is the harm from kids wearing masks in school?

Aside from the obvious issues with socialization and speech development, you've had multiple people who are K-12 teachers tell you in this thread that masks make communication more difficult.

I'm not seeing the studies to show that children suffer lasting problems with socialization and speech development and communication due to masks. I'm happy to read them and learn from them if you post them. If you're just referring to "common sense" and individual anecdotes then thanks, but that isn't known information or obvious issues.

On the other hand I've read reports of studies seeing the opposite. https://www.npr.org/sections/health...chools-masks-kids-learning-speech-development

Some parents express worry that masks might interfere with children's ability to learn or to socialize. Other parents fear that unmasking will lead to more COVID-19 cases. Amid the debate, a small but growing body of research is offering hints that masks do not have a significant impact on speech or social skills.

The team compared a class from early 2020, before masks arrived, with a class in 2021, when masks were required. And they found no difference in the amount of language production. The team also found that the complexity of speech sounds was higher in children wearing masks. "Maybe they talk a little bit more to get their meaning across," Perry says. "Maybe the teachers change the way that they're talking to make sure that they're being understood."
About half the children in the study used hearing aids or cochlear implants. And those kids also did fine with masks, says Samantha Mitsven, a doctoral candidate at the University of Miami.

NPR isn't a credible source on this type of thing. It's Newsmax for upper middle class wine moms.

 

[Scoresman]

I think it has to do with length of the mandate too. A two week mandate after the holidays isn't going to cause long term issues. And these are the kind of mandates that we seem to be getting these days.

But I could see longer mandates of months to a year or longer causing issues with some kids. If the disease ever gets bad again, it'd be a balance of keeping teachers healthy enough to teach and students healthy enough to attend vs. potential issues from masking.

 

[The Commish]

I think it has to do with length of the mandate too. A two week mandate after the holidays isn't going to cause long term issues. And these are the kind of mandates that we seem to be getting these days.

But I could see longer mandates of months to a year or longer causing issues with some kids. If the disease ever gets bad again, it'd be a balance of keeping teachers healthy enough to teach and students healthy enough to attend vs. potential issues from masking.

I even think there's something to masks being on our youngest children when it comes to impact on their perception of the world. There is a TON we interpret from facial expressions, so I get that. Schools here weren't allowed under law/EO (though MANY told the gov to buzz off) to require masks. We had pretty significant spread going on causing many many kids to be out and not enough teachers (or subs) to man classrooms. Our school was asking parents to come in and basically baby sit....6 weeks worth. Is that a better experience than having the kid have to be in shool for a couple weeks wearing a mask?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I must have missed this the last time I asked. What exactly is the harm from kids wearing masks in school?

Aside from the obvious issues with socialization and speech development, you've had multiple people who are K-12 teachers tell you in this thread that masks make communication more difficult.

I'm not seeing the studies to show that children suffer lasting problems with socialization and speech development and communication due to masks. I'm happy to read them and learn from them if you post them. If you're just referring to "common sense" and individual anecdotes then thanks, but that isn't known information or obvious issues.

On the other hand I've read reports of studies seeing the opposite. https://www.npr.org/sections/health...chools-masks-kids-learning-speech-development

Some parents express worry that masks might interfere with children's ability to learn or to socialize. Other parents fear that unmasking will lead to more COVID-19 cases. Amid the debate, a small but growing body of research is offering hints that masks do not have a significant impact on speech or social skills.

The team compared a class from early 2020, before masks arrived, with a class in 2021, when masks were required. And they found no difference in the amount of language production. The team also found that the complexity of speech sounds was higher in children wearing masks. "Maybe they talk a little bit more to get their meaning across," Perry says. "Maybe the teachers change the way that they're talking to make sure that they're being understood."
About half the children in the study used hearing aids or cochlear implants. And those kids also did fine with masks, says Samantha Mitsven, a doctoral candidate at the University of Miami.

NPR isn't a credible source on this type of thing. It's Newsmax for upper middle class wine moms.

Did you happen to read the studies themselves? Wondering what you felt was off in NPR's reporting on them. Seemed like a decent attempt at summary in a four minute window after having read a couple of the studies they referenced.

No. There are a very large number of low-quality studies out there. Sites like NPR and Breitbart can certainly find some that support their preferred narrative. That sort of thing isn't helpful.

 

[Scoresman]

I think it has to do with length of the mandate too. A two week mandate after the holidays isn't going to cause long term issues. And these are the kind of mandates that we seem to be getting these days.

But I could see longer mandates of months to a year or longer causing issues with some kids. If the disease ever gets bad again, it'd be a balance of keeping teachers healthy enough to teach and students healthy enough to attend vs. potential issues from masking.

I even think there's something to masks being on our youngest children when it comes to impact on their perception of the world. There is a TON we interpret from facial expressions, so I get that. Schools here weren't allowed under law/EO (though MANY told the gov to buzz off) to require masks. We had pretty significant spread going on causing many many kids to be out and not enough teachers (or subs) to man classrooms. Our school was asking parents to come in and basically baby sit....6 weeks worth. Is that a better experience than having the kid have to be in shool for a couple weeks wearing a mask?

No, but effectiveness of masks would matter too. I don't think measuring effectiveness in schools is a simple question. If 3 year olds are chewing their masks or not wearing them right, then what's the point really. Compared to maybe a fifth grade class where they should all know how to wear them properly.

 

[The Commish]

I think it has to do with length of the mandate too. A two week mandate after the holidays isn't going to cause long term issues. And these are the kind of mandates that we seem to be getting these days.

But I could see longer mandates of months to a year or longer causing issues with some kids. If the disease ever gets bad again, it'd be a balance of keeping teachers healthy enough to teach and students healthy enough to attend vs. potential issues from masking.

I even think there's something to masks being on our youngest children when it comes to impact on their perception of the world. There is a TON we interpret from facial expressions, so I get that. Schools here weren't allowed under law/EO (though MANY told the gov to buzz off) to require masks. We had pretty significant spread going on causing many many kids to be out and not enough teachers (or subs) to man classrooms. Our school was asking parents to come in and basically baby sit....6 weeks worth. Is that a better experience than having the kid have to be in shool for a couple weeks wearing a mask?

No, but effectiveness of masks would matter too. I don't think measuring effectiveness in schools is a simple question. If 3 year olds are chewing their masks or not wearing them right, then what's the point really. Compared to maybe a fifth grade class where they should all know how to wear them properly.

Yeah, don't disagree. For me my preference for my kids would be as "normal" as possible. The least appetizing scenario for me is the school day being turned into daycare with parents there because have the school is sick and they can't get teachers. I'd rather have them remote learning over forcing them into that (which our kids were).

 

[Terminalxylem]

I must have missed this the last time I asked. What exactly is the harm from kids wearing masks in school?

Aside from the obvious issues with socialization and speech development, you've had multiple people who are K-12 teachers tell you in this thread that masks make communication more difficult.

I'm not seeing the studies to show that children suffer lasting problems with socialization and speech development and communication due to masks. I'm happy to read them and learn from them if you post them. If you're just referring to "common sense" and individual anecdotes then thanks, but that isn't known information or obvious issues.

On the other hand I've read reports of studies seeing the opposite. https://www.npr.org/sections/health...chools-masks-kids-learning-speech-development

Some parents express worry that masks might interfere with children's ability to learn or to socialize. Other parents fear that unmasking will lead to more COVID-19 cases. Amid the debate, a small but growing body of research is offering hints that masks do not have a significant impact on speech or social skills.

The team compared a class from early 2020, before masks arrived, with a class in 2021, when masks were required. And they found no difference in the amount of language production. The team also found that the complexity of speech sounds was higher in children wearing masks. "Maybe they talk a little bit more to get their meaning across," Perry says. "Maybe the teachers change the way that they're talking to make sure that they're being understood."
About half the children in the study used hearing aids or cochlear implants. And those kids also did fine with masks, says Samantha Mitsven, a doctoral candidate at the University of Miami.

NPR isn't a credible source on this type of thing. It's Newsmax for upper middle class wine moms.

Did you happen to read the studies themselves? Wondering what you felt was off in NPR's reporting on them. Seemed like a decent attempt at summary in a four minute window after having read a couple of the studies they referenced.

No. There are a very large number of low-quality studies out there. Sites like NPR and Breitbart can certainly find some that support their preferred narrative. That sort of thing isn't helpful.

Seems to me like you have a preferred narrative: to poo-poo whatever conflicts with your worldview, going so far as to deride those who disagree, while simultaneously proclaiming unsubstantiated “common sense” immutably true. Lumping NPR (and by extension, the primary literature they reference) with Breitbart illustrates how far your views are skewed. Talk about not helpful.

FTR, I believe there’s ample evidence short-term masking can curtail the spread of respiratory viruses, without harming kids one iota. And there is virtually zero chance lengthy mask mandates will be applied in US schools, despite periodic masking being accepted practice in other cultures. I think @Doug B already asked, but if masking is so deleterious to childhood development, why aren’t Japanese kids lagging behind their peers?

 

[The Big Donkey]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html

"CNN — The US Department of Energy has assessed that the Covid-19 pandemic most likely came from a laboratory leak in China, according to a newly updated classified intelligence report...."

 

[ZADO]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html

"CNN — The US Department of Energy has assessed that the Covid-19 pandemic most likely came from a laboratory leak in China, according to a newly updated classified intelligence report...."

Not true, according to the ever-reliable folks at NPR:

Virus researchers say there is virtually no chance that the new coronavirus was released as result of a laboratory accident in China or anywhere else.

The assessment, made by more than half-a-dozen scientists familiar with lab accidents and how research on coronaviruses is conducted, casts doubt on recent claims that a mistake may have unleashed the coronavirus on the world.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/23/841729646/virus-researchers-cast-doubt-on-theory-of-coronavirus-lab-accident

I mean, researchers say, and they have an assessment from more than six (seven?) scientists backing them up. What more do you need?

 

[Scoresman]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

Do you think the billions of people in Asian cultures have mental issues that need to be addressed like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances?

 

[ZADO]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

Do you think the billions of people in Asian cultures have mental issues that need to be addressed like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances?

Actually i do

Studies have found that among many young Japanese, masks have evolved into social firewalls; perfectly healthy teens now wear them, along with audio headsets, to signal a lack of desire to communicate with those around them. This is particularly true for young women seeking to avoid harassment on public transit, who also appreciate the relative anonymity the masks provide.

Masks are even becoming an element of East Asian style: In Japan, surgical masks bearing chic designs or the images of cute licensed characters can be purchased in every corner drugstore, while last month at China Fashion Week, designer Yin Peng unveiled a line of “smog couture” clothese paired with a variety of masks, from Vader-esque ventilators to whole-head riot-gear rebreathers.

 

[sho nuff]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

And sorry, but that is part of the problem. Maybe not for this virus...but it could be in the future where regular surgical masks worn properly are extremely effective...and there will be people with this same thought process that just won't wear them. Despite even knowing that everyone wearing one will make a difference to people's health.

and sorry, but no, people are not having mental issues if they are wearing a mask when out today. You don't know their situation. You don't know if they may be ill themselves at the time and trying not to spread something to others. You don't know their own immunity issues or if they are caring for others who are imuno-compromised are would rather wear a mask while out feeling it mitigates some risk of bringing home something to loved ones.
Seems pretty crappy to just assume they have mental issues because you don't believe in what masks can do.

 

[ZADO]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

And sorry, but that is part of the problem. Maybe not for this virus...but it could be in the future where regular surgical masks worn properly are extremely effective...and there will be people with this same thought process that just won't wear them. Despite even knowing that everyone wearing one will make a difference to people's health.

and sorry, but no, people are not having mental issues if they are wearing a mask when out today. You don't know their situation. You don't know if they may be ill themselves at the time and trying not to spread something to others. You don't know their own immunity issues or if they are caring for others who are imuno-compromised are would rather wear a mask while out feeling it mitigates some risk of bringing home something to loved ones.
Seems pretty crappy to just assume they have mental issues because you don't believe in what masks can do.

like i said , its MY opinion


If masks are so effective than why is China and several other Asian countries on the top of people still getting Covid?

COVID-19 pandemic in Asia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[growlers]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html

"CNN — The US Department of Energy has assessed that the Covid-19 pandemic most likely came from a laboratory leak in China, according to a newly updated classified intelligence report...."

Not true, according to the ever-reliable folks at NPR:

Virus researchers say there is virtually no chance that the new coronavirus was released as result of a laboratory accident in China or anywhere else.

The assessment, made by more than half-a-dozen scientists familiar with lab accidents and how research on coronaviruses is conducted, casts doubt on recent claims that a mistake may have unleashed the coronavirus on the world.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/23/841729646/virus-researchers-cast-doubt-on-theory-of-coronavirus-lab-accident

I mean, researchers say, and they have an assessment from more than six (seven?) scientists backing them up. What more do you need?

You are comparing articles/opinions from present day and April 2020. Is that reasonable except to try to try to make your thinly veiled political forum point that NPR = bad?

Numerous prior viral outbreaks were zoonotic, including prior coronavirus outbreaks. It would be scientifically extremely logical that covid came from an animal source. It's happened many times in modern history.

 

[sho nuff]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

And sorry, but that is part of the problem. Maybe not for this virus...but it could be in the future where regular surgical masks worn properly are extremely effective...and there will be people with this same thought process that just won't wear them. Despite even knowing that everyone wearing one will make a difference to people's health.

and sorry, but no, people are not having mental issues if they are wearing a mask when out today. You don't know their situation. You don't know if they may be ill themselves at the time and trying not to spread something to others. You don't know their own immunity issues or if they are caring for others who are imuno-compromised are would rather wear a mask while out feeling it mitigates some risk of bringing home something to loved ones.
Seems pretty crappy to just assume they have mental issues because you don't believe in what masks can do.

like i said , its MY opinion


If masks are so effective than why is China and several other Asian countries on the top of people still getting Covid?

COVID-19 pandemic in Asia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I specifically stated the bold that I was not talking only about this virus.

 

[ZADO]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

And sorry, but that is part of the problem. Maybe not for this virus...but it could be in the future where regular surgical masks worn properly are extremely effective...and there will be people with this same thought process that just won't wear them. Despite even knowing that everyone wearing one will make a difference to people's health.

and sorry, but no, people are not having mental issues if they are wearing a mask when out today. You don't know their situation. You don't know if they may be ill themselves at the time and trying not to spread something to others. You don't know their own immunity issues or if they are caring for others who are imuno-compromised are would rather wear a mask while out feeling it mitigates some risk of bringing home something to loved ones.
Seems pretty crappy to just assume they have mental issues because you don't believe in what masks can do.

like i said , its MY opinion


If masks are so effective than why is China and several other Asian countries on the top of people still getting Covid?

COVID-19 pandemic in Asia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I specifically stated the bold that I was not talking only about this virus.

if you are wearing a mask at the beach, or in a car by yourself or while walking down the street alone , then yes, im saying you have some issues.

I can say what i think about this subject, thanks

 

[jobarules]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html

"CNN — The US Department of Energy has assessed that the Covid-19 pandemic most likely came from a laboratory leak in China, according to a newly updated classified intelligence report...."

Remember when this was considered racist and censored by the media? I do

 

[Scoresman]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

Do you think the billions of people in Asian cultures have mental issues that need to be addressed like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances?

Actually i do

Studies have found that among many young Japanese, masks have evolved into social firewalls; perfectly healthy teens now wear them, along with audio headsets, to signal a lack of desire to communicate with those around them. This is particularly true for young women seeking to avoid harassment on public transit, who also appreciate the relative anonymity the masks provide.

Masks are even becoming an element of East Asian style: In Japan, surgical masks bearing chic designs or the images of cute licensed characters can be purchased in every corner drugstore, while last month at China Fashion Week, designer Yin Peng unveiled a line of “smog couture” clothese paired with a variety of masks, from Vader-esque ventilators to whole-head riot-gear rebreathers.

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

And sorry, but that is part of the problem. Maybe not for this virus...but it could be in the future where regular surgical masks worn properly are extremely effective...and there will be people with this same thought process that just won't wear them. Despite even knowing that everyone wearing one will make a difference to people's health.

and sorry, but no, people are not having mental issues if they are wearing a mask when out today. You don't know their situation. You don't know if they may be ill themselves at the time and trying not to spread something to others. You don't know their own immunity issues or if they are caring for others who are imuno-compromised are would rather wear a mask while out feeling it mitigates some risk of bringing home something to loved ones.
Seems pretty crappy to just assume they have mental issues because you don't believe in what masks can do.

like i said , its MY opinion


If masks are so effective than why is China and several other Asian countries on the top of people still getting Covid?

COVID-19 pandemic in Asia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I specifically stated the bold that I was not talking only about this virus.

if you are wearing a mask at the beach, or in a car by yourself or while walking down the street alone , then yes, im saying you have some issues.

I can say what i think about this subject, thanks

This isn’t what you said originally.

 

[ZADO]

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

Do you think the billions of people in Asian cultures have mental issues that need to be addressed like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances?

Actually i do

Studies have found that among many young Japanese, masks have evolved into social firewalls; perfectly healthy teens now wear them, along with audio headsets, to signal a lack of desire to communicate with those around them. This is particularly true for young women seeking to avoid harassment on public transit, who also appreciate the relative anonymity the masks provide.

Masks are even becoming an element of East Asian style: In Japan, surgical masks bearing chic designs or the images of cute licensed characters can be purchased in every corner drugstore, while last month at China Fashion Week, designer Yin Peng unveiled a line of “smog couture” clothese paired with a variety of masks, from Vader-esque ventilators to whole-head riot-gear rebreathers.

Masks suck , thats my opinion. Others can wear them all they want ,but i prefer breathing undeterred and without obstruction, like we are intended to do at birth and until the day we die .
Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

And sorry, but that is part of the problem. Maybe not for this virus...but it could be in the future where regular surgical masks worn properly are extremely effective...and there will be people with this same thought process that just won't wear them. Despite even knowing that everyone wearing one will make a difference to people's health.

and sorry, but no, people are not having mental issues if they are wearing a mask when out today. You don't know their situation. You don't know if they may be ill themselves at the time and trying not to spread something to others. You don't know their own immunity issues or if they are caring for others who are imuno-compromised are would rather wear a mask while out feeling it mitigates some risk of bringing home something to loved ones.
Seems pretty crappy to just assume they have mental issues because you don't believe in what masks can do.

like i said , its MY opinion


If masks are so effective than why is China and several other Asian countries on the top of people still getting Covid?

COVID-19 pandemic in Asia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I specifically stated the bold that I was not talking only about this virus.

if you are wearing a mask at the beach, or in a car by yourself or while walking down the street alone , then yes, im saying you have some issues.

I can say what i think about this subject, thanks

This isn’t what you said originally.

its all the same to me

 

[Doug B]

if you are wearing a mask at the beach, or in a car by yourself …

DRINK!

 

[Schmeabs]

if you are wearing a mask at the beach, or in a car by yourself …

DRINK!

You can't drink with a mask on. Nice try.

 

[Doug B]

You can't drink with a mask on.

Speak for yourself

 

[Terminalxylem]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/26/politics/covid-lab-leak-wuhan-china-intelligence/index.html

"CNN — The US Department of Energy has assessed that the Covid-19 pandemic most likely came from a laboratory leak in China, according to a newly updated classified intelligence report...."

Not true, according to the ever-reliable folks at NPR:

Virus researchers say there is virtually no chance that the new coronavirus was released as result of a laboratory accident in China or anywhere else.

The assessment, made by more than half-a-dozen scientists familiar with lab accidents and how research on coronaviruses is conducted, casts doubt on recent claims that a mistake may have unleashed the coronavirus on the world.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/04/23/841729646/virus-researchers-cast-doubt-on-theory-of-coronavirus-lab-accident

I mean, researchers say, and they have an assessment from more than six (seven?) scientists backing them up. What more do you need?

Your link is dated April 23, 2020.

You understand a lot can change over nearly 3 years, including scientific understanding? Heck, hypothesis revision is kinda baked into the scientific method.

I‘m not saying NPR is infallible, or apolitical, for that matter. But this story is hardly reason to dunk on those poor wine moms. Did you read it?

Two sources said that the Department of Energy assessed in the intelligence report that it had “low confidence” the Covid-19 virus accidentally escaped from a lab in Wuhan.

Intelligence agencies can make assessments with either low, medium or high confidence. A low confidence assessment generally means that the information obtained is not reliable enough or is too fragmented to make a more definitive analytic judgment or that there is not enough information available to draw a more robust conclusion.

The latest assessment further adds to the divide in the US government over whether the Covid-19 pandemic began in China in 2019 as the result of a lab leak or whether it emerged naturally. The various intelligence agencies have been split on the matter for years. In 2021, the intelligence community declassified a report that showed four agencies in the intelligence community had assessed with low confidence that the virus likely jumped from animals to humans naturally in the wild, while one assessed with moderate confidence that the pandemic was the result of a laboratory accident.

Three other intelligence community elements were unable to coalesce around either explanation without additional information, the report said.

Sounds far from settled, on either side.

 

[Whyatt]

Yes the origin of Covid is far from settled. Yet the opening line of the 2020 NPR article:

“Virus researchers say there is virtually no chance that the new coronavirus was released as result of a laboratory accident in China or anywhere else.”

There were many researchers who considered the lab leak origin plausible in April 2020, but of course had no proof and it would have been irresponsible for them to make a specific claim. NPR chose not to ask those folks.

That was Ivan’s original point about cherry picking sources to support your narrative, pretty hard to argue with that, no?

 

[fatness]

If masks are so effective than why is China and several other Asian countries on the top of people still getting Covid?

Because the Chinese government is refusing to use mRna vaccines. Can you imagine, being that stupid? They are.

 

[fatness]

Its also my opinion that if people are still wearing these god awful things over their mouths and noses than maybe they have some mental issues that need to be addressed , like unreasonable fears and expectations, or paranoia , or they have insecurity issues and the mask allows certain people to be in public that might otherwise be unconfident in their appearances.

Can you think of any other reasons, @ZADO?

 

[fatness]

2. One possible effect of people continuing to mask is it could encourage those in authority to institute mask mandates

I've thought about it awhile, and this still indicates irrational fear.

 

[fatness]

Aside from the obvious issues with socialization and speech development, you've had multiple people who are K-12 teachers tell you in this thread that masks make communication more difficult.

There's no empirical backup for this assertion.

 

[fatness]

Long COVID date.
Man, I hope it's not nearly this widespread.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/pulse/long-covid.htm

 

[Terminalxylem]

Yes the origin of Covid is far from settled. Yet the opening line of the 2020 NPR article:

“Virus researchers say there is virtually no chance that the new coronavirus was released as result of a laboratory accident in China or anywhere else.”

There were many researchers who considered the lab leak origin plausible in April 2020, but of course had no proof and it would have been irresponsible for them to make a specific claim. NPR chose not to ask those folks.

That was Ivan’s original point about cherry picking sources to support your narrative, pretty hard to argue with that, no?

I don't think there were many mainstream virologists advocating a lab leak early on, be it for scientific, political reasons, or both. Moreover, it isn't often immediately obvious when/where viruses jump species barriers in the wild, so expecting quick answers isn't reasonable. But clearly there wasn't (and isn't) enough evidence to state anything definitive. Still, NPR trusting reputable scientists on such an esoteric topic isn't necessarily poor journalism, IMO.

And NPR has subsequently revised their stance, to allow for the possibility of a leak. That's a far cry from the unfounded propaganda spewed unapologetically from sources like Newsmax and Breitbart - both in terms of accuracy and partisanship.

 

[LawFitz]

Long COVID date.
Man, I hope it's not nearly this widespread.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/pulse/long-covid.htm

Pandemic of the vaxxed. Sad.

 

[RCon]

Probably the best reasonably current article on the origin of COVID that I've read.

How the Lab-Leak Theory Went From Fringe to Mainstream—and Why It’s a Warning

Three years ago, Tom Cotton ushered it into the public conversation.

slate.com

 

[Sand]

Probably the best reasonably current article on the origin of COVID that I've read.

How the Lab-Leak Theory Went From Fringe to Mainstream—and Why It’s a Warning

Three years ago, Tom Cotton ushered it into the public conversation.

slate.com

Nothing from Slate is reasonable. It's the left equivalent of Infowars and should be confined to the politics forum.

 

[ZADO]

Probably the best reasonably current article on the origin of COVID that I've read.

How the Lab-Leak Theory Went From Fringe to Mainstream—and Why It’s a Warning

Three years ago, Tom Cotton ushered it into the public conversation.

slate.com

Nothing from Slate is reasonable. It's the left equivalent of Infowars and should be confined to the politics forum.

dont you mean condemned to the non existent political forum?

 

[ZADO]

If masks are so effective than why is China and several other Asian countries on the top of people still getting Covid?

Because the Chinese government is refusing to use mRna vaccines. Can you imagine, being that stupid? They are.

oooooh, i thought the vaccine didnt stop you from getting covid , it just gave a better chance of survival .

 

[3C's]

Probably the best reasonably current article on the origin of COVID that I've read.

How the Lab-Leak Theory Went From Fringe to Mainstream—and Why It’s a Warning

Three years ago, Tom Cotton ushered it into the public conversation.

slate.com

Nothing from Slate is reasonable. It's the left equivalent of Infowars and should be confined to the politics forum.

Sure didn't see that one coming.

 

[Battersbox]

2. One possible effect of people continuing to mask is it could encourage those in authority to institute mask mandates

I've thought about it awhile, and this still indicates irrational fear.

I fear kids will continue to suffer under new masking mandates. There have been recent mandates, so it's plausible to think there will be more still. For there to be new mandates, somebody has to believe they are worthwhile, and those somebodies presumably would be currently masking themselves (otherwise they'd be giant hypocrites, ya know?).
So, yes, my fear is that those who continue to mask will convince those in authority to mask our kids all day (as has happened in several places recently). I believe that's harmful in several ways and unproductive to boot.

There is nothing irrational about it.

 

[LawFitz]

So Lab Leak conspiracy theory is the latest in a very long line to turn into conspiracy FACT.

But you are still expected to believe the mainstream narratives brought to you by Pfizer. Good luck.