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Official Cowboys Offseason Thread. 4th pick overall (2 Viewers)

Deamon said:
First of all you're not going to trade a guy to the Cowboys (I know, I know, McNabb to Wash).  2nd, Dallas isn't going to give up a high pick for a backup qb when they have Romo.  This makes no sense on all levels.

They will likely go after Prescott now though since Lynch is gone.  But seems like they offered quite a bit to move up and get him so they must have loved him... can't remember if they worked him out or not.
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Please God let Philly keep Sam. Guys a bust and no way we give a 2,3 or a 4 for him.

 
humpback said:
Who knows how much of what we hear is true, but the thing that bothers me the most is that supposedly Ramsey was the #1 player on their board, and it's obviously a position of need and a relatively premium position, but they take a RB instead.  Makes me think Jerry is back in charge, which we know isn't a good thing...
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Yeah ... this seems like a Jerry move but I can see the reasoning in taking him.  I mean, there are plenty of analysts that put Zeke in the Gurley tier as one of the two best RB prospects since AP.  We'll have to wait and see if that's true but obviously the Cowboys think it is.  

I will say that I think the smart play may have been Ramsey but I don't think Zeke is a bad pick.  I got thinking about it late last night.  If we had an above avg RB on this roster last year, we win at least half of those nail biters we lost.  If we had Ramsey, I'm not so sure that is the case ... maybe.

 
Bankerguy said:
Basically....they are all in on the Romo poker chips.
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This.

And that is why Elliot will get 350+ touches per season.  So what if we run him into the ground?  The boys are locked in on the next 3-4 years and, honestly, that's all they should be worried about at this point.  They have a team that needs a few pieces to make a deep run.  Zeke was one of them.  Ramsey could have been one also but there's no denying an elite RB will help this team tremendously.  Possibly more than Ramsey would have.

 
mikmak8902 said:
Yeah ... this seems like a Jerry move but I can see the reasoning in taking him.  I mean, there are plenty of analysts that put Zeke in the Gurley tier as one of the two best RB prospects since AP.  We'll have to wait and see if that's true but obviously the Cowboys think it is.  

I will say that I think the smart play may have been Ramsey but I don't think Zeke is a bad pick.  I got thinking about it late last night.  If we had an above avg RB on this roster last year, we win at least half of those nail biters we lost.  If we had Ramsey, I'm not so sure that is the case ... maybe.
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Exactly how I feel. I liked combo of Ramsey/ Booker or Dixon; better than Zeke/?,  but I love Zeke and am excited about the fear he puts in the East foes. They are hating this....

 
The day after...

I am convinced that by watching the War room.  Bosa was the pick at 4.  There was disappointment shown.  At that point it was then Elliott vs Ramsey, there was almost no discussion, they waited for trade offers and just made their pick.

Today.  Tons of great picks there.  Guys I like:

Kevin Dodd / Mackensie Alexander / Reggie Ragland / Vonn Bell / Bullard / Ogbah / Robinson.....heck maybe even Jack.  I am totally fine dropping 5-7 picks and getting another pick. I wouldn't mind moving up into and 2nd round pick either. Lots of great D talent still on the board.

Elliot will wear 21....kinda hoped they gave him 22.

 
Really, really wanted Ramsey.  I hate our ####ty secondary.  So tired of spare-asz Mo Claiborne and Brandon Carr.  Hopeful Zeke is as good as advertised and has a longer shelf life than most RBs, but this was such a Jerry Jones pick that it makes me insane.

 
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BradtheAg said:
Really, really wanted Ramsey.  I hate our ####ty secondary.  So tired of spare-asz Mo Claiborne and Brandon Carr.  Hopeful Zeke is as good as advertised and has a longer shelf life than most RBs, but this was such a Jerry Jones pick that it makes me insane.
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I was fond as well....but at the end of the day.  Do we win more games with EE or Ramsey this year?  I believe the answer is clear.

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
The only thing Jerry has to do with the draft is signing these guys checks and taking credit for the moves his son and Will McClay make.

 Jerry hasnt been running things- other than cocaine, strippers and parties for about four years now. 

So every time you or other posters on this board and the interwebz say this, you make a full of yourself. 
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I agree for the last couple of years, but this pick (and trying to overpay to trade back into the 1st for Lynch) has Jerry written all over it.

 
Bankerguy said:
I was fond as well....but at the end of the day.  Do we win more games with EE or Ramsey this year?  I believe the answer is clear.
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Not going to disagree, but that's the root of my issue with it.  Next year, yeah, I'll give you Zeke.  For the next 5 years?  10 years?

I understand the window is closing on Romo.  But that shouldn't dictate every single decision you make

 
mikmak8902 said:
Yeah ... this seems like a Jerry move but I can see the reasoning in taking him.  I mean, there are plenty of analysts that put Zeke in the Gurley tier as one of the two best RB prospects since AP.  We'll have to wait and see if that's true but obviously the Cowboys think it is.  

I will say that I think the smart play may have been Ramsey but I don't think Zeke is a bad pick.  I got thinking about it late last night.  If we had an above avg RB on this roster last year, we win at least half of those nail biters we lost.  If we had Ramsey, I'm not so sure that is the case ... maybe.
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I don't think it's a bad pick, but I do think that Ramsey was clearly the smarter choice.  I know not everyone agrees, but I don't think it's particularly close either.

The O-line was good but not great last year, and the QB play was atrocious for most of the year.  People seem to forget that McFadden was 4th in the NFL in rushing yards and had a 4.6 ypc- obviously Zeke is better, but how much better do you think he would have done under those circumstances?  Even if you want to say that he would have added a win or 3, they still wouldn't have sniffed the post-season, so it's really moot.

In any event, this isn't only about 1 season or 1 player- it's about relative value/production over the longer term.

 
Bankerguy said:
There is a lot of talent left at 34.

Apparently we offered our 2nd and 3rd to Seattle to get P. Lynch.  Talk about dodging a bullet.
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I've seen this reported too, but didn't Seattle only get Denver's 3rd round pick in return? Why would they turn down Dallas' 2nd and 3rd and accept Denver's 3rd? Dallas' 2nd round pick not worth the move from #31 to #34? What am I missing?

 
Bankerguy said:
I was fond as well....but at the end of the day.  Do we win more games with EE or Ramsey this year?  I believe the answer is clear.
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Seems like today's NFL is all about the QB. If you've got one, you put a team around him. If you don't have one, you sellout to get one and then build around him. Someone earlier said we're all in on Romo. That seems pretty obvious now. Zeke is a guy who can step in right away and make a big impact in the 2 or 3 years Romo has left.

 
jkruppe said:
I've seen this reported too, but didn't Seattle only get Denver's 3rd round pick in return? Why would they turn down Dallas' 2nd and 3rd and accept Denver's 3rd? Dallas' 2nd round pick not worth the move from #31 to #34? What am I missing?
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2017 2nd too I believe

 
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humpback said:
I don't think it's a bad pick, but I do think that Ramsey was clearly the smarter choice.  I know not everyone agrees, but I don't think it's particularly close either.

The O-line was good but not great last year, and the QB play was atrocious for most of the year.  People seem to forget that McFadden was 4th in the NFL in rushing yards and had a 4.6 ypc- obviously Zeke is better, but how much better do you think he would have done under those circumstances?  Even if you want to say that he would have added a win or 3, they still wouldn't have sniffed the post-season, so it's really moot.

In any event, this isn't only about 1 season or 1 player- it's about relative value/production over the longer term.
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McFadden was a straight ahead, unimaginative runner that got only what was there.  The O-Line was phenomenal last year considering they were facing constant stacked boxes and got a mediocre RB 4.6 yards per carry.

 
Congrats on landing Elliott boys!! Was really, really hoping that somehow he'd slip past you. I've got no opinion on whether JJ influenced the pick or not, but it matters nontheless. Absolutely did not want to see this guy land on a division rival. Again, solid pick, congrats!

 
mikmak8902 said:
humpback said:
I don't think it's a bad pick, but I do think that Ramsey was clearly the smarter choice.  I know not everyone agrees, but I don't think it's particularly close either.

The O-line was good but not great last year, and the QB play was atrocious for most of the year.  People seem to forget that McFadden was 4th in the NFL in rushing yards and had a 4.6 ypc- obviously Zeke is better, but how much better do you think he would have done under those circumstances?  Even if you want to say that he would have added a win or 3, they still wouldn't have sniffed the post-season, so it's really moot.

In any event, this isn't only about 1 season or 1 player- it's about relative value/production over the longer term.
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McFadden was a straight ahead, unimaginative runner that got only what was there.  The O-Line was phenomenal last year considering they were facing constant stacked boxes and got a mediocre RB 4.6 yards per carry.
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So let's get specific- what would you say Zeke would have done last year in that offense, and would they have made the playoffs with him?

 
humpback said:
So let's get specific- what would you say Zeke would have done last year in that offense, and would they have made the playoffs with him?
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I think he would have gotten yards that McFadden clearly left on the field.  The Boys only got blown out in 3 games all year.  NE, CAR, and GB.  The NE game was tight until the defense finally wore down in the 2nd half.  The two pick sixes in the Carolina game early ruined this game.  It had nothing to do with the defense.  The GB game was a one score game until, once again, the defense wore down and allowed 14 4th quarter points.  7 of our 12 losses last year were by 7pts or less.

Last year, Dallas was 29th in the league in offensive snaps.  We beat guys up in these forums all the time for not having a 4ypc avg if they are at 3.9ypc and then praise a guy for having a 4.5ypc average.  So, I assume we all know the value of those crucial extra yards.  Alot of those losses literally came down to just needing a few extra first downs.  I think Elliot would have helped us get those.  That in turn would have helped us give our defense more rest.

I don't believe our defense last year was any worse than our 2014 defense.  They were simply exhausted.  

Elliot has the ability to improve our offense, increase our time of possession, and give our defense a rest.  This helps us both offensively and defensively.  Ramsey would have been great and I would assume he would have given use some more stops resulting in more chances offensively.  

I'm just saying there is value in both players and it simply depends on which route you want to go and how much defensive help there will be later in the draft.  As it turns out, there are a ton of solid defensive players left to choose from and I'm betting we go defense with our first pick today.

I don't think you and I are necessarily disagreeing.  I also think Ramsey was probably the smarter pick.  I just don't think Elliot is as "less smart" as I initially thought it was.  I'm seeing the logic.

 
Another thing to consider - Ramsey may or not be a good player but it ain't like a rookie CB is going to stop guys like Odell, Djax, AK Green, Julio, ABrown and so forth. Hell, with those guys coming up this season he may have been ruined by those dudes. 

 
I found it interesting that one of the commentators last night said that the Cowboys would have taken Wentz if he had dropped to 4. What would your thoughts have been if that had happened?

 
mikmak8902 said:
I think he would have gotten yards that McFadden clearly left on the field.  The Boys only got blown out in 3 games all year.  NE, CAR, and GB.  The NE game was tight until the defense finally wore down in the 2nd half.  The two pick sixes in the Carolina game early ruined this game.  It had nothing to do with the defense.  The GB game was a one score game until, once again, the defense wore down and allowed 14 4th quarter points.  7 of our 12 losses last year were by 7pts or less.

Last year, Dallas was 29th in the league in offensive snaps.  We beat guys up in these forums all the time for not having a 4ypc avg if they are at 3.9ypc and then praise a guy for having a 4.5ypc average.  So, I assume we all know the value of those crucial extra yards.  Alot of those losses literally came down to just needing a few extra first downs.  I think Elliot would have helped us get those.  That in turn would have helped us give our defense more rest.

I don't believe our defense last year was any worse than our 2014 defense.  They were simply exhausted.  

Elliot has the ability to improve our offense, increase our time of possession, and give our defense a rest.  This helps us both offensively and defensively.  Ramsey would have been great and I would assume he would have given use some more stops resulting in more chances offensively.  

I'm just saying there is value in both players and it simply depends on which route you want to go and how much defensive help there will be later in the draft.  As it turns out, there are a ton of solid defensive players left to choose from and I'm betting we go defense with our first pick today.

I don't think you and I are necessarily disagreeing.  I also think Ramsey was probably the smarter pick.  I just don't think Elliot is as "less smart" as I initially thought it was.  I'm seeing the logic.
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You can use the same argument for a defensive player pick, last year we lost a lot of close games because our defense was unable to hold on the 4th quarter.

We all know you dont win championships riding RBs anymore, why doesnt jerry and his staff realize that? they just need to look for the past 4-5 superbowls teams.

 
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mikmak8902 said:
humpback said:
So let's get specific- what would you say Zeke would have done last year in that offense, and would they have made the playoffs with him?
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I think he would have gotten yards that McFadden clearly left on the field.  The Boys only got blown out in 3 games all year.  NE, CAR, and GB.  The NE game was tight until the defense finally wore down in the 2nd half.  The two pick sixes in the Carolina game early ruined this game.  It had nothing to do with the defense.  The GB game was a one score game until, once again, the defense wore down and allowed 14 4th quarter points.  7 of our 12 losses last year were by 7pts or less.

Last year, Dallas was 29th in the league in offensive snaps.  We beat guys up in these forums all the time for not having a 4ypc avg if they are at 3.9ypc and then praise a guy for having a 4.5ypc average.  So, I assume we all know the value of those crucial extra yards.  Alot of those losses literally came down to just needing a few extra first downs.  I think Elliot would have helped us get those.  That in turn would have helped us give our defense more rest.

I don't believe our defense last year was any worse than our 2014 defense.  They were simply exhausted.  

Elliot has the ability to improve our offense, increase our time of possession, and give our defense a rest.  This helps us both offensively and defensively.  Ramsey would have been great and I would assume he would have given use some more stops resulting in more chances offensively.  

I'm just saying there is value in both players and it simply depends on which route you want to go and how much defensive help there will be later in the draft.  As it turns out, there are a ton of solid defensive players left to choose from and I'm betting we go defense with our first pick today.

I don't think you and I are necessarily disagreeing.  I also think Ramsey was probably the smarter pick.  I just don't think Elliot is as "less smart" as I initially thought it was.  I'm seeing the logic.
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Perhaps "specific" wasn't clear, but is there a reason you aren't answering the question?  What kind of numbers do you think Zeke would have had in that offense last year, what do you think their record would have been with him, and would they have made the playoffs?

IMO you're putting way too much of the blame for last season on the RB.  McFadden was 4th in the NFL in rushing 1st downs last year too- again, how many more would Zeke have had, and how much of a difference would it have made?  Last season was all about the QB play (due to injuries), not the RB play.  That doesn't mean Zeke won't help some, but it's silly to think he would have made a huge difference.

I agree there is value in both players, but just about everyone else in the NFL agrees that RBs have less value than just about any other position.

 
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As an Eagles fan, I was really hoping they passed on Elliott. I think you guys have a stud there. Congrats. Also impressed that they aren't resigning Hardy and they haven't brought in Manziel. Looks like you guys are improving both on the field and in the clubhouse. Nice job by your 'Boys.  :thumbup:

 
Bankerguy said:
Injury prone, can't block, 1 dimensional.
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Ran for over 1,000 yards, caught over 40 passes and was one of best RB's in the NFL in second half. He's not going anywhere.

Neither is Morris or Dunbar,  not now. No reason, Dunbar is not healthy and probably won't be active. Morris and DMC are cheap. Might move one near trade deadline if interest but none of them are going anywhere anytime soon, in large part because they are cheap and secondly because I don't think they get you much to anything back.

 
menobrown said:
Ran for over 1,000 yards, caught over 40 passes and was one of best RB's in the NFL in second half. He's not going anywhere.

Neither is Morris or Dunbar,  not now. No reason, Dunbar is not healthy and probably won't be active. Morris and DMC are cheap. Might move one near trade deadline if interest but none of them are going anywhere anytime soon, in large part because they are cheap and secondly because I don't think they get you much to anything back.
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I believe he was talking about Dunbar, not McFadden.

 
modogg said:
You guys aren't concerned at all that the team will burn out Zeke in 2-3 years with 350+ carries a few years in a row, similar to how Demarco got overused?
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Listening to Jerry's press conference last night I don't think it's a concern so much as that's the plan. I don't think they have a lot of interest in paying RB's that second contract, what they value is youth on that cheaper first year contract. I'm sure they'd like to get 4-5 years out of him instead of 2-3 but I absolutely expect them to run him into the ground.

If I owned Elliot in a dynasty league I'd enjoy the hell out of the next 3 years and then move him.

 
Bankerguy said:
Thrilled.  Great prospect.

He is dead to me now...lol
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Why?! Just kidding.

So I have lost track. Who is the Cowboys current back-up QB? Because everytime Romo gets taken to the ground next year, you guys are going to be holding your breath. Do they have anyone other than Kellen Moore?

 
menobrown said:
Listening to Jerry's press conference last night I don't think it's a concern so much as that's the plan. I don't think they have a lot of interest in paying RB's that second contract, what they value is youth on that cheaper first year contract. I'm sure they'd like to get 4-5 years out of him instead of 2-3 but I absolutely expect them to run him into the ground.

If I owned Elliot in a dynasty league I'd enjoy the hell out of the next 3 years and then move him.
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He's only 20yrs old, will be 21 when camp starts. 23-24yrs old when he signs his next contract. As a Dynasty owner I'm not moving him. If he lives up to his expectations I'll have him til he retires.

Tex

 
dhockster said:
Why?! Just kidding.

So I have lost track. Who is the Cowboys current back-up QB? Because everytime Romo gets taken to the ground next year, you guys are going to be holding your breath. Do they have anyone other than Kellen Moore?
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They tried to move up to get Lynch but that didn't work out. Cook if he's available will be their man in rounds three or four. Maybe even Prescott in laters rounds.

Tex

 
They seem to be all over the place- take a RB so they can "win now", then try and give up a lot to take a QB which obviously isn't "win now", and now they're looking to trade up a whopping 2 spots when there is plenty of talent left- and we're supposed to believe that Jerry isn't heavily involved?

 
BigTex said:
He's only 20yrs old, will be 21 when camp starts. 23-24yrs old when he signs his next contract. As a Dynasty owner I'm not moving him. If he lives up to his expectations I'll have him til he retires.

Tex
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No.  5th year option.  And then they can franchise.  

25 if he's lucky.  More likely when he's 26-27.

 
jkruppe said:
I've seen this reported too, but didn't Seattle only get Denver's 3rd round pick in return? Why would they turn down Dallas' 2nd and 3rd and accept Denver's 3rd? Dallas' 2nd round pick not worth the move from #31 to #34? What am I missing?
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I'm a little confused by this as well.  Seattle took picks 31&94 over picks 34&67.  I think part of it is that they wanted a first rounder as that allows them to have a 5th year option on the player.  But I'm not sure that 5th year option is worth the 20+ draft spots in round 2.

 
menobrown said:
Listening to Jerry's press conference last night I don't think it's a concern so much as that's the plan. I don't think they have a lot of interest in paying RB's that second contract, what they value is youth on that cheaper first year contract. I'm sure they'd like to get 4-5 years out of him instead of 2-3 but I absolutely expect them to run him into the ground.

If I owned Elliot in a dynasty league I'd enjoy the hell out of the next 3 years and then move him.
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Don't think they'll run him AS much as Murray.  Though I fully agree that they plan on having him no longer then 5 years, and that is probably the smart thing to do.  Go get another one in 5 years and avoid spending big money at the RB position.  However they probably will try to rotate Morris in quite a bit (especially with any big lead or deficit) so that he's as fresh in year 5 as he is in year 1.  He's already had a ton of carries in college.

 
Deamon said:
Don't think they'll run him AS much as Murray.  Though I fully agree that they plan on having him no longer then 5 years, and that is probably the smart thing to do.  Go get another one in 5 years and avoid spending big money at the RB position.  However they probably will try to rotate Morris in quite a bit (especially with any big lead or deficit) so that he's as fresh in year 5 as he is in year 1.  He's already had a ton of carries in college.
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Murray was top 10 all time stuff so I'd never predict that but for sure they plan to get their moneys worth these next few years. In general, and I don't think I'm going out on a big limb here, I predict they lead the NFL next season in RB carries as a team.

I would respectfully disagree with two items however.

The quick and easy one is I don't think it's Morris who would be rotated in,that would be DMC. Maybe if they wanted to protect a big lead it would be Morris but for sure not if they are down  and I think the role of rotation/COP back is really perfect for DMC. But that's all pretty minor, it's the EE show now.

I don't view Elliot as that cheap, maybe not big money but not cheap. He's not ADP money but $16 million guaranteed and what I think is $5 million a year is not cheap RB money.  Again it's not ADP money but it's in line with money guys like Miller and Martin got as highest paid FA RB's. 

Jerry and Stephen were hammering home the point yesterday about how they analyzed RB pay/production and felt like first few years where best years of production while also getting them at lower cost. I don't disagree with that statement but I tend to see more value in second round type picks in terms of really getting an inexpensive RB those first few years when you can get them around $1m per year.

 
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