EBF
Footballguy
I'm not a staff member. I'm not nearly excellent enough.So basically a staff member acting the same way as a troll on a fishing trip.
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***Official Darren McFadden Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Burning Sensation
- Start date
No. 16
Footballguy
As a Raider fan... McFadden's numbers have more to do with the o-line dominating the Chiefs D than anything else.
Sub Fargas or Bush and instead of 160 yards they would get 140 instead or instead of that 50 yard run, it would have been a 40 yard scamper.
The main thing is that Raiders running game is the goods.
Sub Fargas or Bush and instead of 160 yards they would get 140 instead or instead of that 50 yard run, it would have been a 40 yard scamper.
The main thing is that Raiders running game is the goods.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Didnt you claim Royal was a top 15 dynasty WR after one game?Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm just having fun here. Anyone who's familiar with my posts can probably tell that I'm joking around with all theand whatnot.I still believe that BMI is relevant, but we need more than a handful of games to judge guys like McFadden and C. Johnson. We really won't be able to say anything conclusive one way or another until at least the end of the season and possibly longer.
Until then...
One
Not Allowed In Mexico
McFadden Mendenhall is better than AP, LT and Barry Sanders rolled into one.
/BMI
EBF
Footballguy
Yes. There's a big difference between a rookie RB having a big game and a rookie WR getting 9 catches for 140+ yards in his debut. The latter is much more rare and seems to have a much higher correlation with future success.I'll judge a player very early in his career if he shows me something spectacular. Royal showed that last week. I haven't seen it from McFadden yet. What he did was no more impressive than what Forte, Stewart, and Johnson have done so far this season. Basically, it's common for a RB to have a big game, so a big game from a RB doesn't necessarily tell you a whole lot.Didnt you claim Royal was a top 15 dynasty WR after one game?Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm just having fun here. Anyone who's familiar with my posts can probably tell that I'm joking around with all the
Until then...
jurb26
Footballguy
Yes. There's a big difference between a rookie RB having a big game and a rookie WR getting 9 catches for 140+ yards in his debut. The latter is much more rare and seems to have a much higher correlation with future success.I'll judge a player very early in his career if he shows me something spectacular. Royal showed that last week. I haven't seen it from McFadden yet. What he did was no more impressive than what Forte, Stewart, and Johnson have done so far this season. Basically, it's common for a RB to have a big game, so a big game from a RB doesn't necessarily tell you a whole lot.Didnt you claim Royal was a top 15 dynasty WR after one game?Like I said earlier in this thread, I'm just having fun here. Anyone who's familiar with my posts can probably tell that I'm joking around with all the
Until then...
It really is funny watching you dig this grave deeper and deeper. It's not even worth commentary any more. Just fun to sit back and watch.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Any truth to the rumor McFadden hurt his toe today in the game?
JetMaxx
Footballguy
A little game analysis instead of 
in this thread would be great.
My thoughts:
While I was excited at the yards he put up, I must admit that I was a little more than a little disappointed that he got caught from behind by a safety on that long run. Because of the holes that the OL created, I'm not sure if he showed enough to prove that he's a legit stud in the making. But he did take advantage of the opportunity that was given him. A lesser RB would of had a 100 yds but he has that little extra burst that the great ones have. Just wish he would have been able to finish the long one. I know I'm back and forth with this but there's something there that I question with McFadden that wasn't answered in this game.
in this thread would be great.My thoughts:
While I was excited at the yards he put up, I must admit that I was a little more than a little disappointed that he got caught from behind by a safety on that long run. Because of the holes that the OL created, I'm not sure if he showed enough to prove that he's a legit stud in the making. But he did take advantage of the opportunity that was given him. A lesser RB would of had a 100 yds but he has that little extra burst that the great ones have. Just wish he would have been able to finish the long one. I know I'm back and forth with this but there's something there that I question with McFadden that wasn't answered in this game.
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Avery
Footballguy
Couple the fact that he's the youngest player in the NFL with the horrid offensive team and coaching staff he's surrounded by and I'm not sure that those questions are going to be fully answered this year.A little game analysis instead ofin this thread would be great.
My thoughts:
While I was excited at the yards he put up, I must admit that I was a little more than a little disappointed that he got caught from behind by a safety on that long run. Because of the holes that the OL created, I'm not sure if he showed enough to prove that he's a legit stud in the making. But he did take advantage of the opportunity that was given him. A lesser RB would of had a 100 yds but he has that little extra burst that the great ones have. Just wish he would have been able to finish the long one. I know I'm back and forth with this but there's something there that I question with McFadden that wasn't answered in this game.
massraider
Footballguy
No, but you can form an opinion based on what we have seen, in a few preseason games, and in two reg season games.So far, I agree about his vision. Not impressing me. Can it be improved? Well, he may learn some more patience, which would be nice.Couple the fact that he's the youngest player in the NFL with the horrid offensive team and coaching staff he's surrounded by and I'm not sure that those questions are going to be fully answered this year.A little game analysis instead ofin this thread would be great.
My thoughts:
While I was excited at the yards he put up, I must admit that I was a little more than a little disappointed that he got caught from behind by a safety on that long run. Because of the holes that the OL created, I'm not sure if he showed enough to prove that he's a legit stud in the making. But he did take advantage of the opportunity that was given him. A lesser RB would of had a 100 yds but he has that little extra burst that the great ones have. Just wish he would have been able to finish the long one. I know I'm back and forth with this but there's something there that I question with McFadden that wasn't answered in this game.
I think it looks like he might be a guy that will have some real big games, and some real big plays, but you might not be able to count on him to make something out of nothing. I watched the Panthers replay, and man, Jon Stewart is legit, he looks like the best of the rookie backs to me, in the sense of a 25 carry lead back prototype.
McFadden looks like he may be a different animal, a guy that'll frustrate fans a bit, then break a 60-yarder. He's tougher than I thought, style-wise, but won't be much of a pile mover. Like to see more of him in the passing game.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
With Fargas out for a few weeks, Macfadden should be the full time starter, and the soon to be ROY.
massraider
Footballguy
Not really definitive from JC there. Could be out a few weeks?I think anyone that saw the play could have made that call.
Statler & Waldorf
Footballguy
What's up with his toe? Did he practice today?
Gopher State
Footballguy
The burning question is hows McFadden's toe?, will he play?, if so will it effect his play/touches
massraider
Footballguy
We'll get the report today. It's only two o'clock out there, news will be in soon. Kiffin said McFadden coul have gone back into the Chiefs game, but wasn't needed.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
He is hurt, and his touches will probably be limited for several more weeks. He will still outproduce Mendenhall this year, want to wager on it?EBF said:
EBF
Footballguy
He is hurt, and his touches will probably be limited for several more weeks. He will still outproduce Mendenhall this year, want to wager on it?EBF said:
rzrback77
Footballguy
I am curious as to whether your position on whether McFadden would be productive or not is really that important. I grow very weary of he said she said discussions on the board.Do you think that his toe injury is directly related to either his skinny legs or his low BMI?He is hurt, and his touches will probably be limited for several more weeks. He will still outproduce Mendenhall this year, want to wager on it?EBF said:
Chachi
Footballguy
I think Dmac is gonna be just fine, better than fine, he's going to be a top RB in the NFL for many years.
EBF is probaly just having fun getting reactions from all of us Dmac "Fanboys". Let him have his fun, I know when Dmac is tearing up the league I will probaly forget to rub it in EBFs nose, it's really not that big of a deal what a poster says, even when he says it in heavy volume.
EBF is probaly just having fun getting reactions from all of us Dmac "Fanboys". Let him have his fun, I know when Dmac is tearing up the league I will probaly forget to rub it in EBFs nose, it's really not that big of a deal what a poster says, even when he says it in heavy volume.
EBF
Footballguy
I am curious as to whether your position on whether McFadden would be productive or not is really that important. I grow very weary of he said she said discussions on the board.Do you think that his toe injury is directly related to either his skinny legs or his low BMI?He is hurt, and his touches will probably be limited for several more weeks. He will still outproduce Mendenhall this year, want to wager on it?EBF said:
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
good time to buy on a future stud
EBF
Footballguy
Yes, get Mendenhall while you still can.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Like i said in another thread, his BMI theory is blowing up in his face. The guy had Tashard Choice ranked ahead of Chris Johnson before the season started. He has been wrong on almost every rookie so far, all he has left is bumping this thread while DMac is banged up....well that and telling us how bad Forte is. I hope Mendenhall has a big game tomorrow just so he can save some face. Well, that and so i can trade him in a dynasty league.
EBF
Footballguy
Chris Johnson is the only rookie that I feel I misjudged.Other than that, most of these guys are looking about how I thought they'd look.
Keep in mind that my rankings are for dynasty purposes. Of course the guys who are getting an immediate opportunity (Slaton, Forte, C. Johnson) look the best right now. That's not a coincidence. Any stiff can step in and look halfway decent if he's getting 15-20 touches. What will ultimately matter is who can sustain that production in the long haul.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Any stiff? Lets see if Mendenhall puts up 100 total yards and a TD tomorrow night.
You didnt have Slaton in your top 24 rookies, so you are pretty far off on that one so far. Ray Rice ahead of Forte? Not sure anyone in their right mind would trade Forte for Rice. I know that we are talking dynasty leagues, and its only 4 weeks into the season, but doent a players current value mean anything? I coulnt get a 3rd tier WR for Mendenhall right now, and i had a trade offer of Steve Smith for Matt Forte turned down.I am sure in time some of your projections will look better, but right now, they are pretty bad. I hope Mendenhall proves me wrong, and you right tomorrow night, but i am not too optmistic about it.
Jedimaster21
Footballguy
I am trying to be as objective about McFadden as I can. I just don't see that great of a player. He is fast, but he is running behind a line that seems to allow anyone back there some decent stats. He still seems to lack vision and elusiveness. We shall see, he looks like I thought he would. This turf toe injury could happen to everyone, so I don't think that reflects poorly on him...but I just don't think he has looked all that great when healthy.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
He was healthy for one game, and ran for over 160 yards in that game.
Arnold. S
Footballguy
besides what the stats show for that one game, what aspects of his running so far in the NFL has impressed you? Or are you just merely defending him in every possible thread because you drafted him in Dynasty leagues?
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
I keep hearing how poor his vison and power is, but those are the aspects i have been most impressed with. He has a great burst, and hits the hole hard. Other than his durabilty, the only thing that has really bothered me about him is the thing most people thought was his best attribute, and thats his straight away speed. Im not just talking about getting caught from behind against the Chiefs. There were a few occasions in the preseason and regular season where i thought he was going to get a big gain, but seems to caught from behind. I wasnt really defending him, i just thought it funny the OP said he hasnt looked good when healthy, but he went for over 160 in his only healthy game. Do you think the Oline was the only reason he rushed for that many yards, or do you think DMac had something to do with it? What about him are you not impressed with at this point...other than his durabilty?
Arnold. S
Footballguy
one thing he does do is he hit the hole hard. Against the Chiefs, all he did was running through huge holes with a burst and gaining significant amount of yards. On the TD run, he got over the corner and turned upfield because two Cheifs defenders hit each other, allowing McFadden to run by. However, I've still yet to see McFadden make a sharp cut without losing balance and speed. His lateral agility is TERRIBLE. I've seen him many times turn upfield through a hole that's not completely straight ahead, losing his balance and appear to be falling over before anyone's even touched him. 3 times against the Bills last week, McFadden went to make a cut and fell on his own. He's also not shown he can create plays on his own without a big gap to run through. These are the things I've seen so far, both from watching NFL games and college games...
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
I certainly agree with this, except i only saw it in the Bills game. I gave him a mulligan on it as it was his first game with turf toe, and the field was wet. However, if i see it happening more consistently, i will become more concerned.As far as having big holes to run through, that seems to be something people say when they are trying to find a reason to downplay a RB's accomplishments. Mcfadden is averaging one YPC more than Bush, and a half YPC more than Fargas, and i think they are running behind the same line. Fact is, holes are only usually big for a fraction of a second, it takes a RB with good vision and acceleration to fully exploit them.
No. 16
Footballguy
As BS said it was his 1st game with turf toe and playing with a metal plate in his foot.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Not as if we didnt already know this, but...Per Rotoworld:
Lets hope a couple weeks is enough time to get back close to 100%.
Wildman
Footballguy
I keep hearing how poor his vison and power is, but those are the aspects i have been most impressed with. He has a great burst, and hits the hole hard. Other than his durabilty, the only thing that has really bothered me about him is the thing most people thought was his best attribute, and thats his straight away speed. Im not just talking about getting caught from behind against the Chiefs. There were a few occasions in the preseason and regular season where i thought he was going to get a big gain, but seems to caught from behind.
I wasnt really defending him, i just thought it funny the OP said he hasnt looked good when healthy, but he went for over 160 in his only healthy game. Do you think the Oline was the only reason he rushed for that many yards, or do you think DMac had something to do with it? What about him are you not impressed with at this point...other than his durabilty?
Were you equating burst and hitting the hole hard as the things you were impressed about in regards to vision and power? I may have mistunderstood, but it sounds like you are saying these were interrelated when they are four separate components of his game.
I'm willing to argue that his o-line, speed, and determination to hit the hole hard contributed to his big game in KC. LeShon Johnson was exactly this kind of runner and had a huge game for the Cardinals early in his career because of these exact skills. In fact the knock on him was similar to those that aren't enamored with McFadden's game - they both hit the hole hard and if the hole is there, they will have big gains. If not, they aren't nearly as effective.
I haven't seen anything yet to indicate he has good vision, good lateral movement, or patience when he was healthy. Now his burst is limited due to his toe. Look how this injury has effected LT and Gates. They can't accelerate out of cuts or plant and cut with the same level of suddenness as they could when healthy. We're seeing the same thing with McFadden.
Hopefully he'll be healthy enough soon so we can all resume this long running debate.
I wasnt really defending him, i just thought it funny the OP said he hasnt looked good when healthy, but he went for over 160 in his only healthy game. Do you think the Oline was the only reason he rushed for that many yards, or do you think DMac had something to do with it? What about him are you not impressed with at this point...other than his durabilty?
Were you equating burst and hitting the hole hard as the things you were impressed about in regards to vision and power? I may have mistunderstood, but it sounds like you are saying these were interrelated when they are four separate components of his game.
I'm willing to argue that his o-line, speed, and determination to hit the hole hard contributed to his big game in KC. LeShon Johnson was exactly this kind of runner and had a huge game for the Cardinals early in his career because of these exact skills. In fact the knock on him was similar to those that aren't enamored with McFadden's game - they both hit the hole hard and if the hole is there, they will have big gains. If not, they aren't nearly as effective.
I haven't seen anything yet to indicate he has good vision, good lateral movement, or patience when he was healthy. Now his burst is limited due to his toe. Look how this injury has effected LT and Gates. They can't accelerate out of cuts or plant and cut with the same level of suddenness as they could when healthy. We're seeing the same thing with McFadden.
Hopefully he'll be healthy enough soon so we can all resume this long running debate.
Wildman
Footballguy
Not much different from the 6 games I studied for my publication or the 6 games NFL Films producer and NFL Match up producer Greg Cosell studied with his. I spoke with Cosell two weeks ago and we discussed our takes on McFadden and they were very similar. BTW-Cosell has been watching film for 30 years and spends his weeks watching film with guys like Jaworski and Hoge. McFadden doesn't need a huge gap because of his speed, but he's not going to do a lot to create a gap or wait for one to open at this point of his development.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
yeap... DMac is no Mendy... thats for sure. Tough break on that one
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
look, hes a stud... hes struggling mostly because of the injury. But I would make a move for him IMO
bleedgreen
Footballguy
Only 2 yards on the ground against the Dolphins after a miserable week against the Steelers. Should McFadden owners be worried?
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PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
I am a little, but I'm counting on that dreamy schedule in weeks 14-16 to make everything alright.
I was concerned at first, until I looked at the game log, Miami had the ball 3 times longer.
And for some reason Oakland kept trying to go deep against a pretty good pass defense.
Crappy game plan is what I see. I still trust McFadden the rest of the way.
And for some reason Oakland kept trying to go deep against a pretty good pass defense.
Crappy game plan is what I see. I still trust McFadden the rest of the way.
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