Official Donald Trump for President thread (3 Viewers)

[SaintsInDome2006]

Technically, I think the parties, and even the candidates themselves, appoint the electors, not the state Legislatures.  When we vote in November, it is for a specific slate of electors - each candidate has their own set.

But it's the states who confirm the results and send the electors to the College where they actually vote.

 

[Sammy3469]

But it's the states who confirm the results and send the electors to the College where they actually vote.

The electors go to their state Capital and vote and then send the results to 4 different places.  The "college" is actually the process not a place 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The electors go to their state Capital and vote and then send the results to 4 different places.  The "college" is actually the process not a place 

You're right, I was thinking of the tabulation of the votes, which does happen in one place.

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors

- USC.

- This is what I'm thinking of. The choosing of the electors is up to the states.

 

[Daywalker]

If you want a dose of reality...

- The campaign ordered SEIU not to work in Michigan because they wanted to head fake Trump into working in Iowa. Think about that.

- And they dumped millions into Chicago and New Orleans to pump up the popular vote numbers. 

What is your point?

The margin of victory was so slim of course the Comey letter swung the election.

 

[Sinn Fein]

You're right, I was thinking of the tabulation of the votes, which does happen in one place.

- USC.

- This is what I'm thinking of. The choosing of the electors is up to the states.

The states govern the process of selecting electors - the states do not select the electors.

 

[Slapdash]

Very slippery slope to go down.  

Trump is unorthodox, and many believe that he is unfit for office.  But he got the support of enough people to win a national election.  If we use the Electoral College as a means for invalidating elections - why even bother with elections?

I agree it is a slippery slope.  It is become clearer with each passing day that Trump is unfit for office and presents significant risk to our system of government. Maybe we should directly elect the president.  I would prefer that.  But we don't do that today.  We didn't elect Trump on 11/8; we elected people to vote at the Electoral College.   

 

[Boston]

There is no more "do the right thing" in politics.  It's win at all costs.  All costs.  

Alinsky 101...been this way for quite some time...

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

The states govern the process of selecting electors - the states do not select the electors.

And I think you are right.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I'm currently on a private tour of the capital with a certain Arkansas house member. Should I ask about Russia? 

Also met Senator Grassly, he's a peach. 

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What is your point?

The margin of victory was so slim of course the Comey letter swung the election.

Maybe incorporate the mistakes that were made into your calculation? A better run campaign would have won.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I agree it is a slippery slope.  It is become clearer with each passing day that Trump is unfit for office and presents significant risk to our system of government. Maybe we should directly elect the president.  I would prefer that.  But we don't do that today.  We didn't elect Trump on 11/8; we elected people to vote at the Electoral College.   

I am just saying it would lead to pure chaos, if the Electoral College does not elect Trump.  Bad kind of chaos - not the fun kind of watching people lose their minds.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Russian officials also bristle over U.S. lectures on human rights, saying that Washington is using the rhetoric of democracy to mask a policy of regime change aimed at unseating Mr. Putin.

Sergei Markov, a pro-Kremlin political commentator, said Mr. Trump’s pick represented a decisive break with a foreign-policy establishment in Washington that is intent on stoking confrontation with Moscow.

...

Added Mr. Markov: Mr. Trump’s pick for top diplomat is “some kind of Christmas gift from the American people to the Russian people.”

http://www.wsj.com/articles/moscow-sees-rex-tillerson-as-chance-to-end-sanctions-reboot-u-s-ties-1481663330

 

[3C's]

I'm currently on a private tour of the capital with a certain Arkansas house member. Should I ask about Russia? 

Also met Senator Grassly, he's a peach. 

As much a ##### as he appears to be?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It is become clearer with each passing day that Trump is unfit for office and presents significant risk to our system of government.

I'd be more sympathetic to your position if Trump had seemed like a reasonable, good candidate before the election and all of a sudden he turned into Trump after the voters picked him.  Then we could say that the electors are protecting the voters by acting on info they didn't have.  But pretty much all this stuff was obvious before he got elected, and he still won the election.  This is what Trump voters cast their votes for.

 

[Sammy3469]

I'd be more sympathetic to your position if Trump had seemed like a reasonable, good candidate before the election and all of a sudden he turned into Trump after the voters picked him.  Then we could say that the electors are protecting the voters by acting on info they didn't have.  But pretty much all this stuff was obvious before he got elected, and he still won the election.  This is what Trump voters cast their votes for.

Yeah, I'd only be OK with his electors not voting for him if the CIA/FBI/some other agency developed some information that him or his campaign was in direct cohoots with Russia.  That's not going to happen before Monday, so this is more an academic exercise.

 

[whoknew]

Well, I respectfully disagree with you. But what I think doesn't matter. The public would go crazy. There really would be riots and bloodshed. There would be a real threat of rebellion.

Then what's the point of having an electoral college at all? This is a great argument for scrapping it.

 

[Sabertooth]

Alinsky 101...been this way for quite some time...

The Dems need to make "The Prince" their party platform as the Republicans have.  

 

[Jackstraw]

I understand the frustration - I think the Republicans made a bad decision not to work with Obama on an acceptable moderate SC justice to replace Scalia.  It has now set the precedence for future shenanigans.  But, at some point, we need grown ups in Congress to do the "right" thing, even if that is adverse to their current positions.  This whole notion of "they did it first" is what you expect from a playground dispute.

The one thing that worries me about both parties - they each think they have a monopoly on what is right or best for the country.  Both sides have good ideas and bad ideas.  If we spent more time working towards compromise, instead of pushing for all-or-nothing results, I think we could see some positive developments.

Trump, and to a greater degree, the GOP, are treating this election as a mandate - when the results show that the majority of Americans did/do not want the GOP agenda running the country.  

Always time for compromise when Republicans got the wheel. I'm with Sabertooth. Our offer is this.......nothing. The last eight years show us obstruction is rewarded. 

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Congress not in session so all the hot chicks are wearing tight jeans and low tops.  

 

[boots11234]

I'm already getting tired of winning!  The guys not even in office yet and the Dow is closing in on 20K!!  Make it stop Mr president elect, make it stop!!!

 

[jonessed]

Here's Trump's website on energy policy.  Can you show me where you see any reference, even implied, to reducing the scope or influence of the Department of Energy?

If anything he seems to be advocating for the Department's expansion. After all we can't gain energy independence based on market forces alone, we'll need programs that encourage development of renewable energy technology and energy efficiency, which is a good chunk of DOE does.

He campaigned on reducing regulations on oil and gas.  He appointed someone that believes in reducing regulations on oil and gas.

Texas has expanded wind and solar power as well so maybe he is looking for someone with more balance to their outlook.

I don't believe Trump wants Perry to dismantle the Department of Energy nor do I believe Perry intends to try.

 

[timschochet]

Always time for compromise when Republicans got the wheel. I'm with Sabertooth. Our offer is this.......nothing. The last eight years show us obstruction is rewarded. 

One of the reasons I recently switched from Republican to Democrat is because I believed Dems have become more practical, more willing to compromise,and that after Obama got elected Republicans started behaving like #######s. Now you want the Democrats to start behaving like #######s too? Great. 

 

[Skoo]

I am just saying it would lead to pure chaos, if the Electoral College does not elect Trump.  Bad kind of chaos - not the fun kind of watching people lose their minds.

This is probably very true.

Just imagine how all those people who think the "War on Christmas" is unconstitutional would take this.

I would guess the percentage of people who understand how the electoral college actually works is really, really low.

 

[Sabertooth]

Always time for compromise when Republicans got the wheel. I'm with Sabertooth. Our offer is this.......nothing. The last eight years show us obstruction is rewarded. 

Exactly.  Obstruction is rewarded.  That should be the Dems motto.  Obstruct, obfuscate and undermine (and trust the KGB more than the CIA).  Surely this will Make America Great Again!

 

[Skoo]

One of the reasons I recently switched from Republican to Democrat is because I believed Dems have become more practical, more willing to compromise,and that after Obama got elected Republicans started behaving like #######s. Now you want the Democrats to start behaving like #######s too? Great. 

Democrats do need to show some backbone for once. No, I'm not talking about idiotic measures like shutting down the government because you want to throw a temper tantrum.

But the Dems are always way too quick to appease the right, no matter who is in power.

Part of the reason no meaningful gun legislation ever gets passed. No backbone.

 

[Sabertooth]

One of the reasons I recently switched from Republican to Democrat is because I believed Dems have become more practical, more willing to compromise,and that after Obama got elected Republicans started behaving like #######s. Now you want the Democrats to start behaving like #######s too? Great. 

You need to bring a gun to a gun fight Tim.  Sorry if your sensibilities are hurt.  

What the Dems need to truly do is tap into the talk radio mentality.  Dumb your message down.  Nobody gives a #### about transgender when they lose their job.  The dems need to harp on one or two things (jobs and debt).  Focus like a laser on those and burn Trump and the right every single chance they get.  Make #### up.  Lie.  Fight.  Fight like the country depends on it.  They need to be louder than Limbaugh and Hannity.  They need to be crazier than Breitbart and lie more.  Scorched Earth.  Truly scorched Earth.  Trump needs to go down as a traitor, bigot, small handed failure.  Nothing short will do.  

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Very slippery slope to go down.  

Trump is unorthodox, and many believe that he is unfit for office.  But he got the support of enough people to win a national election.  If we use the Electoral College as a means for invalidating elections - why even bother with elections?

IMO an Electoral College result that does not end with President Donald Trump will be the end of the Electoral College.

There was a time and place for the EC, but that's over now.  Won't miss it if it goes away.

 

[BobbyLayne]

We survived Andrew Jackson.

We'll survive Donald Trump.

 

[Sabertooth]

Democrats do need to show some backbone for once. No, I'm not talking about idiotic measures like shutting down the government because you want to throw a temper tantrum.

But the Dems are always way too quick to appease the right, no matter who is in power.

Part of the reason no meaningful gun legislation ever gets passed. No backbone.

Most people don't want gun legislation.  Screw guns.  Take that one away.  Yep....we are all for guns too!  Woohoo!  Act like you've always been the pro-gun party for a couple years and pretty soon people will believe it.  That's what the Republicans did with the middle class.  Flip the script.  

 

[3C's]

We survived Andrew Jackson.

We'll survive Donald Trump.

Tell that to the Native Americans.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Most people don't want gun legislation.  Screw guns.  Take that one away.  Yep....we are all for guns too!  Woohoo!  Act like you've always been the pro-gun party for a couple years and pretty soon people will believe it.  That's what the Republicans did with the middle class.  Flip the script.  

I tend to agree with this. It's pro-2nd Amendment argument, being for all of the Bill of Rights, not just part of it. Takes away a key talking point about "coming for the guns". Which Obama never did, despite the talk for 8 years. He proposed some low hanging fruit, once.

 

[Sabertooth]

I tend to agree with this. It's pro-2nd Amendment argument, being for all of the Bill of Rights, not just part of it. Takes away a key talking point about "coming for the guns". Which Obama never did, despite the talk for 8 years. He proposed some low hanging fruit, once.

Yup.  It would take the wind out of their sails.  Or sales, whichever I guess.  

 

[Lutherman2112]

Alinsky 101...been this way for quite some time...

Alinsky 101  . Alinsky was about empowering the powerless, not win at all costs.

This reminds me of a line from A Fish Called Wanda: "The central message of Buddhism is not 'Every man for himself.'" 

 

[Slapdash]

I'd be more sympathetic to your position if Trump had seemed like a reasonable, good candidate before the election and all of a sudden he turned into Trump after the voters picked him.  Then we could say that the electors are protecting the voters by acting on info they didn't have.  But pretty much all this stuff was obvious before he got elected, and he still won the election.  This is what Trump voters cast their votes for.

I do think the way he is using the office to support his personal businesses and the continuing new information about Russian interference counts as new news.  But, yeah, mostly just trying to avoid the very negative outcomes his presidency could have.

Just seems like exactly the type of reason we have this indirect process in the first place, at least per my reading of Hamilton.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Do we think Trump would rather be president or own the hotel in the Old Post Office?  

 

[Boston]

Alinsky 101  . Alinsky was about empowering the powerless, not win at all costs.

This reminds me of a line from A Fish Called Wanda: "The central message of Buddhism is not 'Every man for himself.'" 

Means to an ends means by any means necessary...sorry but your Pollyanna way of thinking is not how it is being practiced in today's world...

The community organizer is given eleven rules for guidance with respect to ethics.

(1) The first rule is “One’s concern with the ethics of means and ends varies inversely with ones personal interest in the issue.”  That is to say, the more you care about the issue the less you should care about the methods you use to fight for it.

(2) “judgment of the ethics of means and ends is dependant on the political position of those making the judgment.”

(3) “in war the end justifies almost any means.”

(4) “judgment must be mad in the context of the times…” “ethical standards must be elastic to stretch in the times.”

(5) “concern with ethics increases with the number of means available…”

(6) “the less important the end…the more one can afford to engage in ethical evaluation of means

(7) “success or failure is a mighty determinate of ethics.”

(8) the “morality of means depends on whether the means is being deployed at the time of imminent defeat or imminent victory.”

(9) “any effective means is automatically judged by the opposition as unethical.”

(10) “do what you can with what you have and clothe it with moral arguments.”

(11) Whatever your mission “goals must be phrased in terms like Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, or Of the Common Welfare or Pursuit of Happiness or Bread and Peace”.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

You need to bring a gun to a gun fight Tim.  Sorry if your sensibilities are hurt.  

What the Dems need to truly do is tap into the talk radio mentality.  Dumb your message down.  Nobody gives a #### about transgender when they lose their job.  The dems need to harp on one or two things (jobs and debt).  Focus like a laser on those and burn Trump and the right every single chance they get.  Make #### up.  Lie.  Fight.  Fight like the country depends on it.  They need to be louder than Limbaugh and Hannity.  They need to be crazier than Breitbart and lie more.  Scorched Earth.  Truly scorched Earth.  Trump needs to go down as a traitor, bigot, small handed failure.  Nothing short will do.  

Jesus don't take the wrong message from a unique election. Better candidate with a good campaign they win that thing. This is  Overreaction December.

 

[jonessed]

You need to bring a gun to a gun fight Tim.  Sorry if your sensibilities are hurt.  

What the Dems need to truly do is tap into the talk radio mentality.  Dumb your message down.  Nobody gives a #### about transgender when they lose their job.  The dems need to harp on one or two things (jobs and debt).  Focus like a laser on those and burn Trump and the right every single chance they get.  Make #### up.  Lie.  Fight.  Fight like the country depends on it.  They need to be louder than Limbaugh and Hannity.  They need to be crazier than Breitbart and lie more.  Scorched Earth.  Truly scorched Earth.  Trump needs to go down as a traitor, bigot, small handed failure.  Nothing short will do.  

Hillary was pretty well versed in both fighting and lieing.  She still lost.

 

[Sabertooth]

But they lost.  They need to not lose.  Being virtuous is great only when you win.  

 

[Short Corner]

Always time for compromise when Republicans got the wheel. I'm with Sabertooth. Our offer is this.......nothing. The last eight years show us obstruction is rewarded. 

The Republicans can come along for the ride but they have to sit in the back.

 

[Sinn Fein]

Congress not in session so all the hot chicks are wearing tight jeans and low tops.

MAGA!  #bigly

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

But they lost.  They need to not lose.  Being virtuous is great only when you win.  

And then you win nothing.

 

[Statorama]

 FoxNews, Drudge, Breitbart and Rush.  The dominate TV and radio providers.

To this day it still baffles me that mainstream news (ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN) hasn't caught on that you need to sprinkle in some center-right stuff every once in a while.  They are fighting like a bucket of crabs over the same audience while FoxNews has the rest of the audience all to themselves. 

It's like having four doughnut shops in a row that only sell doughnuts and then one store next to them is a coffee shop.  If the doughnut places add coffee and beverages to their product offerings....the coffee shop loses business.

 

[Boston]

Hillary was pretty well versed in both fighting and lieing.  She still lost.

I really hope the Democrat party takes the advice of some of these posts...

 

[Sabertooth]

Hillary was pretty well versed in both fighting and lieing.  She still lost.

She wasn't as well versed as Trump.  He literally just lied and lied and lied.  When called on it, the accusers were attacked mercilessly.  Heck with the ##### grabbing thing, you had him saying what he did, women saying "yeah, that's what he did."  He attacked the messengers and nobody thought twice about it.  

 

[Sabertooth]

And then you win nothing.

Spare me.  

 

[Skoo]

I think there is a healthy balance that can be found for the Dems somewhere between spineless wussies and right-wing radio bat%^&^ crazy.

 

[Boston]

To this day it still baffles me that mainstream news (ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN) hasn't caught on that you need to sprinkle in some center-right stuff every once in a while.  They are fighting like a bucket of crabs over the same audience while FoxNews has the rest of the audience all to themselves. 

It's like having four doughnut shops in a row that only sell doughnuts and then one store next to them is a coffee shop.  If the doughnut places add coffee and beverages to their product offerings....the coffee shop loses business.

Unfortunately they do think they add that stuff...there is a huge disconnect between NYC and a good portion of the country...

 

[Statorama]

We survived Andrew Jackson.

We'll survive Donald Trump.

To heck with that, we survived US Grant.  Trump is a flea on that dog.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Spare me.  

Well then at least look at the data. Voters who disliked Hillary and Trump both were won by Trump. People who distrusted Hillary and Trump both were won by Trump. If you ramp up the negative not only will it make the Dems something they hate it will also be profitless.