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Official Donald Trump for President thread (7 Viewers)

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I don't want to ignore avoiding injuries' concern here, though.  He is right, we should be talking more about last night's speech instead of focusing on Trump's insane, rambling, uninformed comments this morning or any of his previous insane, rambling, uninformed comments.

To that end, here is Charles Pierce on Trump's speech last night. I agree with every word:


 


Donald Trump Sold Us Fear. Next Comes the Wrath.


CLEVELAND, OHIO—Hello, America. It's Morning In Somalia.

Instead of pointing out that last night's Masque of the Red Death acceptance speech already is being graded on a curve the size of the Gateway Arch (And that Ivanka's turn in the spotlight is being graded on a curve the size of the orbit of Neptune. Government-paid child care? Pay equality? Please to be giving me a break) I thought I'd just mention the three most nakedly and inescapably authoritarian moments in the unprecedented 75-minute harangue.

Being nakedly and inescapably authoritarian, they perfectly sum up the great paradox of this week in Cleveland—to wit, the angry delight the participants took in submitting themselves to the vulgar talking yam speaking down to them from on high.

I am your voice.

I alone can fix this.

And that moment in which the crowd chanted, "Yes, you will." Try, for a second, to measure the distance from the president's signature line, "Yes, we can" to He, Trump's, "Yes, you will." (I am sure that the people chanting it thought they were being the cleverest dupes in the universe.) Somewhere in that gap is the place where a self-governing political commonwealth starves itself to death.

The rest of the speech is best dealt with elsewhere, but this entire week was powered by the vigorous applause of people begging to be led, to be directed, to be ruled. A wise old friend once told me that the most basic paradox in American history can be summed up in the question, "Do you govern or are you governed?"

The answer throughout the week in Cleveland was something beyond even the parameters of that question. These were not people begging to govern. These were not even people begging to be governed. These were people begging to be ruled. For all the palaver about freedom and liberty, and all the appeals to the Founders and the American experiment, this whole convention was shot through with an overwhelming lust for authority.

This was a gathering of subjects thirsting for a king.

We'll leave the fact-checking to others. It's pointless anyway. The facts did not matter to the people here. The Voice was all that mattered. The truth did not matter. Volume was all that mattered. Reality did not matter. Fear of the imagined criminal Other mattered. Abandoned and unfocused wrath mattered. What ultimately mattered was fashioning actual freedom into a quaking shadow of itself. What actually mattered was being free to choose your own despot.

The country is not what He, Trump said it was on Thursday night. The country is not what all the speakers in Cleveland said it was. The country is not what all the people below think it is. There are problems, but not crises. There are perils, but not ghastly night terrors. Compared to other moments in our history, the year 2016 is a walk in the park on a day where it might rain.

Once, for example, almost 25 percent of the labor force was unemployed. People slept in tents in Central Park. Millions of people fled the center of the country and headed west. American society was coming apart and, unlike the period of the Civil War, it was not dividing itself cleanly into competing sides. It was dissolving to all points on the compass. The authoritarian impulse was powering Huey Long in Louisiana and Father Charles Coughlin on the radio. The convulsion was general and sweeping and there seemed to be no end to it.

And a presidential nominee from the state of New York named Franklin Roosevelt addressed the truly dire situation from the podium of his party's national convention:

The great social phenomenon of this depression, unlike others before it, is that it has produced but a few of the disorderly manifestations that too often attend upon such times. Wild radicalism has made few converts, and the greatest tribute that I can pay to my countrymen is that in these days of crushing want there persists an orderly and hopeful spirit on the part of the millions of our people who have suffered so much. To fail to offer them a new chance is not only to betray their hopes but to misunderstand their patience. To meet by reaction that danger of radicalism is to invite disaster. Reaction is no barrier to the radical. It is a challenge, a provocation. The way to meet that danger is to offer a workable program of reconstruction, and the party to offer it is the party with clean hands. This, and this only, is a proper protection against blind reaction on the one hand and an improvised, hit-or-miss, irresponsible opportunism on the other.
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Nobody chanted, "Yes, you will." Times were too serious for that. The situation was too dire. Actual wolves were at the door. The terrors were real, and not imagined. Fear didn't need to be stoked. Fear was the resting pulse of the nation and democracy was being threatened with murder, and not. There was no need for passages like this:

Americans watching this address tonight have seen the recent images of violence in our streets and the chaos in our communities. Many have witnessed this violence personally, some have even been its victims. I have a message for all of you: The crime and violence that today afflicts our nation will soon, and I mean very soon, come to an end. Beginning on January 20, 2017, safety will be restored.
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That is how men with ribbons and gold buttons speak to people from balconies. That is how kings talk, and not particularly bright ones, either. God save the Republic, because I don't know if we're up to the job any more.
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link.  Because it should be re-read and shared.

 
FatUncleJerryBuss said:
Politicians have been doing much smaller versions of this forever to get elected.   He just decided F it, it can all be a lie it doesn't matter if it gets votes.   He is crushing them at the game they invented.  You don't want honest politicians?   White lies don't matter?   This is what you get.  
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I will agree that all politicians lie. But that is not what I was pointing out. The 90 second clip I posted just before this post, was a total trainwreck. The day after receiving the nomination for the president of the US, he is ranting like a conspiracy nut calling into Infowars.

Thin-skinned Don once again can't let things go. And that would be a YUUGGEEE problem if he became President 

 
HellToupee said:
:lmao:

who the hell runs Clintons Twitter account . 

Its a pic of Cruz dad & LHO together. That's a fact. So what.
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Trump’s charge appears to be based on a National Enquirer report alleging that Rafael Cruz is the man standing next to Oswald in a photo from 1963. But technical experts told PolitiFact that no such firm conclusion is possible given the quality of the photograph, and several historians of the period told us they’ve never seen Cruz’s name come up in connection with Oswald.
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link

As for your "so what" question, I guess you'll have to ask Donald Trump that. Hes the one who keeps bringing it up.

 
HellToupee said:
:lmao:

who the hell runs Clintons Twitter account . 

Its a pic of Cruz dad & LHO together. That's a fact. So what.
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It's funny that Trump keeps bringing up that he holds the National Inquirer in such high regard. Can't wait to hear him talk about how Elvis was found working as a cook at Denny's and the Wolf Baby found in WalMart bathroom.

 
avoiding injuries said:
I'd say you can tell that Trump had a good night based on the reaction of our resident lefties, but it's just another typical day for them here. 
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Setting aside party politics, it's really awful that you think a "having a good night" can or should be measured by how much a politician disturbs and alienates half of the people he seeks to govern. The sentiment you express here would never cross my mind . I sincerely hope you never feel about a candidate from any political party the way millions of Americans felt about Donald Trump last night and this morning.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Setting aside party politics, it's really awful that you think a "having a good night" can or should be measured by how much a politician disturbs and alienates half of the people he seeks to govern. The sentiment you express here would never cross my mind . I sincerely hope you never feel about a candidate from any political party the way millions of Americans felt about Donald Trump last night and this morning.
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The other half of the country will have a similar feeling next week.

 
 If you believe Donald had a good night and that he's picking up momentum, I want you to consider the following:

Yesterday, before his acceptance rant, his odds of winning the presidency was +200.  Hillary was -240.  

Today, right now, this second, Donald is +225 and Hillary is -300.
 

So if you think last night was good for the Donald's chances, you're wrong.  

 
cubd8 said:
The other half of the country will have a similar feeling next week.
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Perhaps they will, although I seriously doubt it. Trump is uniquely revolting among the major party nominees in my lifetime, worse than anyone else from either party my an enormous margin.

But if they do feel this way I won't take that as evidence that Clinton did a great job.  If anything I'd take it as evidence that she needs a more inclusive and positive message that doesn't make the people who dislike her feel like this.

 
The General said:
It's funny that Trump keeps bringing up that he holds the National Inquirer in such high regard. Can't wait to hear him talk about how Elvis was found working as a cook at Denny's and the Wolf Baby found in WalMart bathroom.
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I actually believe his comments about the NE

 
General Malaise said:
 If you believe Donald had a good night and that he's picking up momentum, I want you to consider the following:

Yesterday, before his acceptance rant, his odds of winning the presidency was +200.  Hillary was -240.  

Today, right now, this second, Donald is +225 and Hillary is -300.
 

So if you think last night was good for the Donald's chances, you're wrong.  
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You have to be a real degenerate to bet on elections especially this one. No one knows what is going to happen come November , no one.

 
HellToupee said:
You have to be a real degenerate to bet on elections especially this one. No one knows what is going to happen come November , no one.
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So THIS is been the problem with my gambling strategy to date- I've only been betting on events where people don't know what was going to happen!  Should have stuck with betting on events where the outcome was already known. :bag:

In retrospect I suppose this strategy should have been more obvious to me.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Setting aside party politics, it's really awful that you think a "having a good night" can or should be measured by how much a politician disturbs and alienates half of the people he seeks to govern. The sentiment you express here would never cross my mind . I sincerely hope you never feel about a candidate from any political party the way millions of Americans felt about Donald Trump last night and this morning.
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My comment went no further than the boundaries of this message board, and considering how divided this place has become, I can't believe anyone would dispute it. 

 
HellToupee said:
You have to be a real degenerate to bet on elections especially this one. No one knows what is going to happen come November , no one.
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Oh, I think you should wade through the 2012 election thread and see some of the hubris of the republicans who continued to foolishly bet even money on that election with other posters here.  It was pretty tough to watch a guy like Tommyboy just get robbed.  Look, you can think only degenerates bet on elections and that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that Vegas - aka 'truth serum' - considers Hillary's chances to be much better than Donald's.  The odds reflect that.  Right?

 
TobiasFunke said:
So THIS is been the problem with my gambling strategy to date- I've only been betting on events where people don't know what was going to happen!  Should have stuck with betting on events where the outcome was already known. :bag:

In retrospect I suppose this strategy should have been more obvious to me.
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I think there are actually horse races from the past that you can bet on.  Maybe we should stick to that and not delve into degeneration.  

 
avoiding injuries said:
My comment went no further than the boundaries of this message board, and considering how divided this place has become, I can't believe anyone would dispute it. 
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You can't believe anyone would dispute the idea that the success of a presidential candidate's speech can be measured by how much it disturbs people who oppose the candidate?

Even setting aside the principle of the thing, the logic here is also pretty terrible. The idea of a nomination speech isn't just to rally the base and annoy the opposition, it's also (primarily, some would say) to win over undecided voters. Assuming that, I would think the reaction you'd want from opponents is grudging credit, or maybe nitpicking the content in an effort to discredit the speech or minimize its positive effect. Not opponents saying "holy ####, what the #### was that nightmarish authoritarian mess!!??!?!?!" followed by a mad scramble to social media to condemn the content and/or to the opposition's website to make a donation.

 
I actually like a lot of what Trump says on issues.  

It's the guy I can't wrap my head around.  His demeanor and tendency to act hastily really freak me out.  Simple things like retweeting fake internet fodder and having to mouth back at anything said about him (Warren) make me uneasy.  I fear what kind of trouble could he get our country into with that bully mentality.

 
General Malaise said:
 If you believe Donald had a good night and that he's picking up momentum, I want you to consider the following:

Yesterday, before his acceptance rant, his odds of winning the presidency was +200.  Hillary was -240.  

Today, right now, this second, Donald is +225 and Hillary is -300.
 

So if you think last night was good for the Donald's chances, you're wrong.  
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Yeah, this election reminds me of Holmes Cooney at 8-5

 
avoiding injuries said:
TF, we've been posting together for a long time, but you're making it seem like this is your first visit to the FFA. That's the way things have become. 
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Indeed, and we get along well so hopefully you know I mean no disrespect by this: I really don't think you're getting the depth of my/our opposition to Trump at all.  What I'm seeing from him and his supporters is the worst thing I've seen in national politics in my lifetime, by miles.

This isn't just the usual "you suck/ no, you suck!" routine we go through every election cycle.  This is uniquely horrifying and embarrassing. If I could I would happily concede the next three presidential elections to "conventional" Republicans like Kasich, Bush or Rubio in exchange for a Democratic win this November ... and I don't even really like Clinton that much.

 
And here's Daddy giving Pretty Baby a little pat on the tuckus.
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Look at how her arm instantly recoils as soon as his hand starts to reach for her butt!!

It gave me flashbacks to middle school....when you'd have those after-school dances, and the chaperones would watch you like a hawk. "KEEP THOSE HANDS ON HER HIPS, PLEASE!"

 
dparker713 said:
That's easy,  Mitt Romney is more of a WS elitist.  He actually worked in the financial industry.  He built his entire fortune on the carried interest loop hole.  
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He built his entire fortune on passive investment and thanks to the carried interest loophole it is larger than it might be otherwise.

 
HellToupee said:
:lmao:

who the hell runs Clintons Twitter account . 

Its a pic of Cruz dad & LHO together. That's a fact. So what.
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No it isn't. Please. It was never verified that it was Cruz father in that picture.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/04/17/was-ted-cruzs-father-linked-to-the-jfk-assassination/


Was Ted Cruz's Father Linked to the JFK Assassination?



Disreputable web site posits a link between Ted Cruz's father and Lee Harvey Oswald based on negligible evidence.


[...]

Once again, the WMR's author doesn't explain how he could possibly know that the unidentified person standing near Lee Harvey Oswald in these photographs was actually a Cuban (other than by assuming he's Rafael Cruz), nor does he identify the "source" who informed him that the "individual to Oswald's left is none other than Rafael Cruz." (By the standards of "evidence" used in typical WMR items, someone's saying, "Hey, the dude in that blurry Oswald photo looks kinda like Ted Cruz's dad" counts as a "source.")

WMR also doesn't explain how it could possibly be of any significance that Rafael Cruz, Sr. and his wife once lived in Dallas, given that they moved out of that city in November 1962, a full year before the JFK assassination, and more than six months before President Kennedy even decided he would be visiting Texas in November 1963. Evidently the conspiracy in which Cruz and Oswald were involved was so vast, they were able to predict the movements of President Kennedy several months before Kennedy himself planned them.

 
General Malaise said:
Oh, I think you should wade through the 2012 election thread and see some of the hubris of the republicans who continued to foolishly bet even money on that election with other posters here.  It was pretty tough to watch a guy like Tommyboy just get robbed.  Look, you can think only degenerates bet on elections and that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that Vegas - aka 'truth serum' - considers Hillary's chances to be much better than Donald's.  The odds reflect that.  Right?
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The line moved because of the money that must have come in on Hillary after the speech.  Not because of what Vegas itself thought of the speech. It's more a factor of what the betting population thinks of the speech and that's where the advantage is, to determine when the general public is different than the betting public.  For example Brexit where the odds were wrong compared to everyone betting for Brits to stay.

 
It just seems like fate is conspiring to give us Trump. 

Obama gives a good response to Trump, points out that the doom and gloom is false and that we shouldn't live in fear, and he is interrupted by this latest terrorist attack in Munich. Which Trump will surely harp on. 

 
tonydead said:
The line moved because of the money that must have come in on Hillary after the speech.  Not because of what Vegas itself thought of the speech. It's more a factor of what the betting population thinks of the speech and that's where the advantage is, to determine when the general public is different than the betting public.  For example Brexit where the odds were wrong compared to everyone betting for Brits to stay.
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That is true and that is a good example of books being caught wrong.

 
timschochet said:
It just seems like fate is conspiring to give us Trump. 

Obama gives a good response to Trump, points out that the doom and gloom is false and that we shouldn't live in fear, and he is interrupted by this latest terrorist attack in Munich. Which Trump will surely harp on. 
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:thumbup:  Not too late to jump onto the Trump bandwagon Tim. Just go with the flow.

 
General Malaise said:
 If you believe Donald had a good night and that he's picking up momentum, I want you to consider the following:

Yesterday, before his acceptance rant, his odds of winning the presidency was +200.  Hillary was -240.  

Today, right now, this second, Donald is +225 and Hillary is -300.
 

So if you think last night was good for the Donald's chances, you're wrong.  
Click to expand...
Per the FiveThirtyEight projection, Trump's probability of winning the election has basically doubled from the end of June, from ~20% to a hair over 40%. 

Four days ago, before the RNC, the projection was 35%.

Nate Silver has been great over the last several election cycles, but his projections for Trump during the primaries were consistently too negative. 

I don't know if that has changed. I worry that whatever he was missing during the primaries he is also missing now...

 
TobiasFunke said:
Indeed, and we get along well so hopefully you know I mean no disrespect by this: I really don't think you're getting the depth of my/our opposition to Trump at all.  What I'm seeing from him and his supporters is the worst thing I've seen in national politics in my lifetime, by miles.

This isn't just the usual "you suck/ no, you suck!" routine we go through every election cycle.  This is uniquely horrifying and embarrassing. If I could I would happily concede the next three presidential elections to "conventional" Republicans like Kasich, Bush or Rubio in exchange for a Democratic win this November ... and I don't even really like Clinton that much.
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I feel like I would sign up for a return of W if it meant Trump could never be President.

 
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