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Official Donald Trump for President thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eminence
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jamny
Footballguy
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
"I say we stomp him! Then we tattoo him! Then we hang him! And then we kill him!"
jomar
Footballguy
I think you're reading more into what is there. who said he was connected to the bank? he was renting space to a bank controlled by the Iranian governement. sorry, but that is doing business with them, regardless of what someone in real estate calls it. If you have any issues with the facts presented, then lets hear them.
not a big deal necessarily, but for someone who has been blasting Hillary over the Iran deal, it gives it a little something extra.
badmojo1006
Footballguy
Not sure if this has been addressed but:
I am OK with Trump using the current system to write off his losses, that is the way the system is set up so go for it...However, 2 things.
1) How does a mega successful businessman like Trump lose almost a billion dollars in the 90's? We had a great sustained growth during the 90's, you have to be really crappy to lose money during that time.
2) He has complained a lot about other people not paying their fair share of taxes. You can't have it both ways...Stop with the "Do as I say, Not as I do" attitude.
I am OK with Trump using the current system to write off his losses, that is the way the system is set up so go for it...However, 2 things.
1) How does a mega successful businessman like Trump lose almost a billion dollars in the 90's? We had a great sustained growth during the 90's, you have to be really crappy to lose money during that time.
2) He has complained a lot about other people not paying their fair share of taxes. You can't have it both ways...Stop with the "Do as I say, Not as I do" attitude.
Sweet J
Footballguy
bueno
In a class by himself
Lots of ways - accelerated depreciation on real estate for example. You build a lot of stuff in the 90's, you get to depreciate it, plus deduct building expenses.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Sweet J
Footballguy
The thing that angers me: I don't think he actually "lost" the money. I think he "owed" $900M to banks, and used that "debt" as "losses." I think he then negotiated a deal to pay the debt with pennies on the dollar. So those "losses" then go away. I'd also be willing to bet that he didn't declare the negotiation of this deal on later taxes (which would technically be "income" because he is having debt wiped clear). And finally, I'd be willing to be that as part of the negotiation to clear the debt for pennies on the dollar, he used a shell corporation, controlled by him, to purchase the debt, thereby "parking" the debt in some sort of corporation. Which means that debt is still there today, and he will never have to repay it because he controls the corp that purchased the debt.
I have no idea if this is legal or illegal. But I'm convinced to my core that this happened. So he's having it both ways: He gets to declare "losses" that he never actually lost, because he'll never have to repay them.
Does it get shadier than that? I'd love to know if that is legal.
shader
Footballguy
No need to focus on Trump's tax returns. There's plenty of worse stuff than digging through the incomprehensibly complex tax returns of a rich CEO with as many businesses as he has.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Footballguy
It's good to take a break from Trump every once in a while and reflect on what an incredible doosh Mike Pence is.
JerseyToughGuys
Tough Guy
It could also be a Trump insider concerned about a Trump presidency, or concerned about potential future leaks that would be very damaging to Trump if he were to become president. Check the envelop for some Trump family DNA.
cstu
Footballguy
Under bankruptcy rules the debt is treated as non-taxable income.
Brilliant really:
1. Borrow as much money as you can to buy property
2. If value goes up, great
3. If value goes down, write off the perceived loss
4. File bankruptcy to erase the debt you wrote off
5. Pay no taxes for decades
badmojo1006
Footballguy
I still have not seen a plan for what he is going to do with his massive business holdings if elected. I can't imagine him putting it in a blind trust and if he turns it over to his kids (Like I have heard), his name will still be on it and it will create major conflict of interests.
cstu
Footballguy
Mike, you mean the process that found he should never have been convicted? That one, or some other process I don't know about?
Zegras11
Footballguy
Pretty sure commercial can't use accelerated depreciation. It's says 39 years straight line. Multi family is 27.5 years straight line.
bueno
In a class by himself
Yeah, the laws have changed since then, but I believe that in the 90s you could do accelerated depreciated. Any tax experts remember?
Zegras11
Footballguy
Ramsay Hunt Experience
Footballguy
There are plenty of articles that talk about the loopholes themselves. Suffice it to say that they're unique to "professional" real estate investors. So you can write off depreciation even if your asset is worth more than you paid for it. And you can roll losses over to offset non-real estate income (which you and I can't do if we sell our home at a loss, we can only use it write off other real estate). All of these optics are bad for Trump and I imagine it will hurt him.
A more nuanced critique (
) would focus on some of the rationales offered by the Trump campaign.
1. He can't have a fiduciary duty to minimize his personal (as opposed to his companies') tax burden. That's ridiculous.
2. The Times article spoke to his long-time accountant who prepared these returns. The guy was Fred Trump's accountant, and he said that Donald himself never paid much attention to his taxes. So the narrative that this "makes [Trump] smart" seems bogus. This guy had been doing Trump's taxes since he was 18. It's another thing he inherited from his Dad.
3. Donald Trump has released a tax plan. As near as I can tell, he hasn't promised to close this loophole. If anything, he has offered people in his position additional potential avenues to reduce their tax burden. So, after benefitting from tax loopholes for his entire adult life, and releasing a tax plan that doesn't address those loopholes, it seems insane to credit the idea that Trump alone can close them.
And none of this even addresses that Trump was all too happy to join in the meme against the 50% who don't pay federal income tax in 2012.
A more nuanced critique (
) would focus on some of the rationales offered by the Trump campaign.1. He can't have a fiduciary duty to minimize his personal (as opposed to his companies') tax burden. That's ridiculous.
2. The Times article spoke to his long-time accountant who prepared these returns. The guy was Fred Trump's accountant, and he said that Donald himself never paid much attention to his taxes. So the narrative that this "makes [Trump] smart" seems bogus. This guy had been doing Trump's taxes since he was 18. It's another thing he inherited from his Dad.
3. Donald Trump has released a tax plan. As near as I can tell, he hasn't promised to close this loophole. If anything, he has offered people in his position additional potential avenues to reduce their tax burden. So, after benefitting from tax loopholes for his entire adult life, and releasing a tax plan that doesn't address those loopholes, it seems insane to credit the idea that Trump alone can close them.
And none of this even addresses that Trump was all too happy to join in the meme against the 50% who don't pay federal income tax in 2012.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Funny. I missed your outrage when the right was slamming Obama's daughters this past summer.
In general, I would agree that a politician's kids really ought to be off limits -- but in this case, Trump's kids are actively putting themselves in the spotlight and serving as mouthpieces for his campaign, so they are drawing some fire. If they were just trying to do their own thing, I'd be absolutely on board that attacking them would be bad.
Also,
at "run out of Trump material."Joe Summer
Footballguy
Sweet J:
"I say...we let him go..."
matuski
Footballguy
Why is it trolling when they have put themselves front and center? Fair game once they voluntarily step in the ring, right?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
They all play roles in the campaign and would likely be prominent advisors in the WH. Same is true of Bill & Chelsea IMO.
Except for Tiffany and Barron. Though actually I could see Barron being appointed Secretary of Cyber.
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ffldrew
Footballguy
What smells here with regards to his taxes is he is claiming a 900+M PERSONAL loss? How are any of his entities structured to where he - and not a Corporation are taking on a loss of this size? He should have been homeless if this was the case with all sorts of lawsuits going after his personal belongings/residences/assets. It looks like he may have manipulated some of these losses from Corporate to Personal -and then be able to write off his Personal taxes in future years. May have been perfectly legal somehow but it sure doesn't smell right.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
1) it turns out Trump's NOL that year was almost 2% of NOL claimed across the entire country that year. What we're seeing is a long pattern of a man seeking to enrich himself at any cost, even if it bankrupted his own businesses.
2) Isn't it amazing that the GOP candidate right after Romney managed to be a member of both the 1% and the 47%?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That's a good point.
eta - I think some of these companies sound fairly questionable in terms of being true corporate entities.
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You mean his adult children? Who willingly make statements to the media? Yeah, how dare anyone criticize them.
parrot
Footballguy
The three have all appeared in the media multiple times speaking on behalf of the campaign. Ivanka even rolled out policy. They're completely fair game.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
He's never been convicted of tax fraud so therefore he's done nothing wrong? Isn't that pretty much how it goes for Hillary and classified information/servers?
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
According to logic you have displayed in these threads recently, it's the kids' own fault for going on TV and saying dumb things. Or did you forget that you're an ####### victim-blamer?
I'm bashing high-ranking members of the Trump campaign, all of whom have played a role in shaping Trump's campaign strategy and political platform. Three people who have demonstrated in interviews they think "putting the Trump Organization in a blind trust" and "letting the kids run the Trump Organization while Dad is President" are the exact same thing.
It's their fault,not mine. If they stop going on TV and saying stuff that is patently false and/or stupid, I'll stop bashing them. But they have to meet me halfway on this.
CBusAlex
Footballguy
There have only been 10 pages added to this thread since Friday. Low energy!run out of material?
never
Bruce Dickinson
Footballguy
If it turns out the real reason Trump hasn't released his taxes is because he had them on a private server and deleted them, do you promise to go ape#### over it and call for Trump to go to jail?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
If he cheated on his taxes he should face the penalties for doing so. If that's a fine so be it if it's jail so be it. It's not as bad as putting human life in danger by intentionally mishandling classified information but of course he should be prosecuted if your wet dream plays out. This isn't very difficult.
bueno
In a class by himself
I missed the Obama kids thing, but yeah, that's outrageous too. I'm just commenting on the never-ending petty circle-jerking - you'd think your prostates would be exhausted by now. You know, Trump is a terrible candidate, we all get that. The sooner you realize that the people who got him there have legitimate concerns, the sooner we can stop the bleeding and divisiveness. Those of you engaged a bashing and calling his supporters stupid are contributing to the problem, not helping to solve it.Funny. I missed your outrage when the right was slamming Obama's daughters this past summer.
In general, I would agree that a politician's kids really ought to be off limits -- but in this case, Trump's kids are actively putting themselves in the spotlight and serving as mouthpieces for his campaign, so they are drawing some fire. If they were just trying to do their own thing, I'd be absolutely on board that attacking them would be bad.
Also,
squistion
Footballguy
From a DKos Diary:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/3/1577252/-Donald-Trump-probably-doesn-t-pay-taxes-Undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions
Donald Trump, the anti-immigrant crusader, may not have paid any federal income tax for close to 20 years, to say nothing of any strategies he uses to get out of paying other taxes. Meanwhile, the immigrants he rants against as burdens on the U.S. are paying vast amounts of taxes:
A study by the non-partisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found undocumented immigrants paid $11.84 billion in state and federal taxes in 2012. Researchers suggested tax contributions would increase with President Obama's executive orders on immigrations, specifically program aimed at protecting students and their parents from deportation.
According to the study:
Undocumented immigrants nationwide pay on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes (this is their effective state and local tax rate). To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay an average nationwide effective tax rate of just 5.4 percent.
Additionally:
Unauthorized workers are paying an estimated $13 billion a year in social security taxes and only getting around $1 billion back, according to a senior government statistician.
“They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists,” Trump famously said. It turns out, they’re also bringing more tax payments than he is.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/10/3/1577252/-Donald-Trump-probably-doesn-t-pay-taxes-Undocumented-immigrants-pay-billions
Donald Trump, the anti-immigrant crusader, may not have paid any federal income tax for close to 20 years, to say nothing of any strategies he uses to get out of paying other taxes. Meanwhile, the immigrants he rants against as burdens on the U.S. are paying vast amounts of taxes:
A study by the non-partisan Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy found undocumented immigrants paid $11.84 billion in state and federal taxes in 2012. Researchers suggested tax contributions would increase with President Obama's executive orders on immigrations, specifically program aimed at protecting students and their parents from deportation.
According to the study:
Undocumented immigrants nationwide pay on average an estimated 8 percent of their incomes in state and local taxes (this is their effective state and local tax rate). To put this in perspective, the top 1 percent of taxpayers pay an average nationwide effective tax rate of just 5.4 percent.
Additionally:
Unauthorized workers are paying an estimated $13 billion a year in social security taxes and only getting around $1 billion back, according to a senior government statistician.
“They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists,” Trump famously said. It turns out, they’re also bringing more tax payments than he is.
cstu
Footballguy
bueno
In a class by himself
timschochet
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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