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Official Donald Trump for President thread (6 Viewers)

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IvanKaramazov said:
Trump is presumably going to carry my state, and I will grant you that that is pretty embarrassing.
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But that's not your fault, right? You voted for neither, so you get to complain no matter what, and tell us all "I told you so"? Pretty comfortable position there, must be nice.

Often times I just want to say "f you" to things too. The system, the candidates, society, my job. But I do the responsible thing, even if it's not an easy choice, or the "less worse" choice. I'll do that for my daughter, and all the other daughters. Maybe even yours.

 
Sweet J said:
hmmmm. . . weren't there a few million Brits who thought the same way and then woke up horrified the next day? 
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Was there some third party option I'm not aware of?  Kind-of sorta Brexit?  BrexitLite?

I mean Brexit was a referendum on a single issue.  If you thought it was a good idea, you presumably voted yes.  If not, you voted no.  How is it at all like Ivan's situation? 

 
cstu said:
There's the choice of a President who will maintain the status quo for 4 years, which has not been bad for a vast majority of Americans, vs. someone who will do long-term damage to the United States, in both it's economy and international reputation.

Frankly, if you live in a state that Trump wins and you didn't do anything within your power to prevent it then you should be absolutely embarrassed.
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That ought to get the women and minorities to show up at the voting stations by the busload.

Seriously the worst platform you could propose right now.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
But that's not your fault, right? You voted for neither, so you get to complain no matter what, and tell us all "I told you so"? Pretty comfortable position there, must be nice.

Often times I just want to say "f you" to things too. The system, the candidates, society, my job. But I do the responsible thing, even if it's not an easy choice, or the "less worse" choice. I'll do that for my daughter, and all the other daughters. Maybe even yours.
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Well, it really isn't my fault.  My state has gone for the GOP every time since Goldwater.  As an empirical matter, there really isn't anything I can do to change that.  I can't bend others to my will, although I agree that life would be better for all of us if I could.  

 
Jrodicus said:
That ought to get the women and minorities to show up at the voting stations by the busload.

Seriously the worst platform you could propose right now.
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It may not be phrased like a tagline, but things are in the crapper only if you believe the delusional rantings of Donald Trump and the Breitbart contingency.

 
cstu said:
If you don't vote for Hillary, that's fine, but to say these human beings are equally suited POTUS then you are, by any objective analysis, wrong.
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Your argument is like saying a child rapist is better suited to run a daycare than a murderer.

 
igbomb said:
It may not be phrased like a tagline, but things are in the crapper only if you believe the delusional rantings of Donald Trump and the Breitbart contingency.
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I agree with this for the most part -- but the rural white working class has taken a legitimate beating over the past two decades or so and have largely been ignored by politicians on both sides. Hence, Trump.

 
Grace Under Pressure said:
But that's not your fault, right? You voted for neither, so you get to complain no matter what, and tell us all "I told you so"? Pretty comfortable position there, must be nice.

Often times I just want to say "f you" to things too. The system, the candidates, society, my job. But I do the responsible thing, even if it's not an easy choice, or the "less worse" choice. I'll do that for my daughter, and all the other daughters. Maybe even yours.
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I guess I view the purpose of my vote differently.

I view my vote as a tacit endorsement of the candidate. I'm not voting to "earn the right to complain" and I think characterizing voting in such a manner debases the idea of voting as a principle.

And it's not nice. I have had to tell several people that I really admire and/or love why they're idiotic for supporting Trump while at the same time agreeing why one can't possibly vote for Hillary. But then, I've always been a stranger in a strange land.

 
Joe Summer said:
Ramblin Wreck:
 

HC believes in full term abortions.
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Donald Trump vows to change Republican platform to allow abortion exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother

"Donald Trump believes in full term abortions" (as long as the woman says the baby is a product of incest or rape)
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I honestly think that if Trump got elected, he would revert back to his very Pro-Choice position on Abortion. I have never heard what his supposed "Come to Jesus" moment was regarding abortion.

 
badmojo1006 said:
I honestly think that if Trump got elected, he would revert back to his very Pro-Choice position on Abortion. I have never heard what his supposed "Come to Jesus" moment was regarding abortion.
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He was told he had to be pro life if wanted on the GOP ticket?  It's really not that hard.  

 
culdeus said:
badmojo1006 said:
I honestly think that if Trump got elected, he would revert back to his very Pro-Choice position on Abortion. I have never heard what his supposed "Come to Jesus" moment was regarding abortion.
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He was told he had to be pro life if wanted on the GOP ticket?  It's really not that hard.  
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OK, so he was acting like a Politician, changing his position to get elected.

Something he vehemently denies being. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Was there some third party option I'm not aware of?  Kind-of sorta Brexit?  BrexitLite?

I mean Brexit was a referendum on a single issue.  If you thought it was a good idea, you presumably voted yes.  If not, you voted no.  How is it at all like Ivan's situation? 
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I remember reading that a lot of people wanted to vote against Brexit not because they really wanted out of the EU, but because they wanted to voice dissatisfaction of the state of affairs generally with England's governance.  This phenomenon was encouraged, I believe, by reports of polling that indicated Brexit would get shot down easily.  So essentially people used "Yes" on Brexit as a "protest vote" rather than based on a firm conviction to leave.

At least that was what I remember some of the reporting post-vote.  Anyone else remember that? 

 
Sweet J said:
I remember reading that a lot of people wanted to vote against Brexit not because they really wanted out of the EU, but because they wanted to voice dissatisfaction of the state of affairs generally with England's governance.  This phenomenon was encouraged, I believe, by reports of polling that indicated Brexit would get shot down easily.  So essentially people used "Yes" on Brexit as a "protest vote" rather than based on a firm conviction to leave.

At least that was what I remember some of the reporting post-vote.  Anyone else remember that? 
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That's pretty much what happened. And there was a ton of "buyer's remorse" the next day.

 
Sweet J said:
I remember reading that a lot of people wanted to vote against Brexit not because they really wanted out of the EU, but because they wanted to voice dissatisfaction of the state of affairs generally with England's governance.  This phenomenon was encouraged, I believe, by reports of polling that indicated Brexit would get shot down easily.  So essentially people used "Yes" on Brexit as a "protest vote" rather than based on a firm conviction to leave.

At least that was what I remember some of the reporting post-vote.  Anyone else remember that? 
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Again, how is that at all similar to Ivan's scenario?  He's not voting for Trump/Brexit.  If your point is that if Ivan is opposed to Donald Trump, then he shouldn't vote for Donald Trump, I agree.  

 
Sweet J said:
I remember reading that a lot of people wanted to vote against Brexit not because they really wanted out of the EU, but because they wanted to voice dissatisfaction of the state of affairs generally with England's governance.  This phenomenon was encouraged, I believe, by reports of polling that indicated Brexit would get shot down easily.  So essentially people used "Yes" on Brexit as a "protest vote" rather than based on a firm conviction to leave.

At least that was what I remember some of the reporting post-vote.  Anyone else remember that? 
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The most googled phrase the next day was "What is Brexit?".

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Again, how is that at all similar to Ivan's scenario?  He's not voting for Trump/Brexit.  If your point is that if Ivan is opposed to Donald Trump, then he shouldn't vote for Donald Trump, I agree.  
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Brexit won by 1.3 million votes.  If 1.3 million people like Ivan had voted then the UK would have stayed in the EU.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I think we can give people who are philosophically opposed to the Hillary Clinton's agenda a pass for not voting for Hillary Clinton.  Seems to me that someone in Ivan's position is making the most rational decision.  He doesn't support Trump, so he isn't voting for Trump.   If Hillary Clinton received 70% of the popular vote, it would be construed as more than just a repudiation of Trump.  It would be construed as widespread approval for Hillary Clinton's agenda.  We know Ivan doesn't approve of Hillary Clinton's agenda. 

If a significant number of people who don't approve of Hillary Clinton's message choose not to vote for Hillary Clinton's major challenger, then they have done more than enough to repudiate Trump.  Because all Hillary then needs to do to win is to win the votes of people like me, who do largely approve of her agenda. 
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I am requoting you so I remember.

This isn't a huge deal, but I took what you are saying as:  "Look, if you hate Trump, one reasonable reason to vote for Johnson rather than Clinton is that you know Clinton will win anyway, so this make her have a smaller margin of victory and it will send a message that Clinton doesn't have a mandate; that there are some things about her that people don't like."

The problem was the polling.  People thought this was a "protest" vote; but polling was WAY off.  

I compare that to Brexit:  People were saying: "one reasonable reason to vote for [Brexit] rather than [Staying in EU] is that you know that [Staying in EU] will win anyway, so this makes [staying] have a smaller margin of victory and it will send a message that [England's governance] doesn't have a mandate; that there are some things about [England's governance vis-a-vis the EU] that people don't like."

I thought it was a decent analogy.  But who knows :shrug:

 
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Let us have a thought experiment.  We're running a referendum.  There are four choices on the ballot:

1)  Eminence is ritualistically disemboweled.

2)  Eminence receives a 20 minute atomic wedgie.

3)  Nobody does anything to Eminence

4) Eminence receives a nice fruit basket

Now, we've had a great deal of polling and we generally know that right now, Eminence receiving the wedgie is leading him getting disemboweled by about a 7% margin.  About 10% of voters favor doing nothing to Eminence and maybe 2% would send him a nice fruit basket.  Would we really harangue the guys voting for doing nothing to Eminence simply because we worry that if they don't vote for the wedgie, then Eminence will be disemboweled?  These people don't believe in atomic wedgies.  They might agree that at least an atomic wedgie to Eminence is a better option than disemboweling him, it's still not an acceptable option to them. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Let us have a thought experiment.  We're running a referendum.  There are four choices on the ballot:

1)  Eminence is ritualistically disemboweled.

2)  Eminence receives a 20 minute atomic wedgie.

3)  Nobody does anything to Eminence

4) Eminence receives a nice fruit basket

Now, we've had a great deal of polling and we generally know that right now, Eminence receiving the wedgie is leading him getting disemboweled by about a 7% margin.  About 10% of voters favor doing nothing to Eminence and maybe 2% would send him a nice fruit basket.  Would we really harangue the guys voting for doing nothing to Eminence simply because we worry that if they don't vote for the wedgie, then Eminence will be disemboweled?  These people don't believe in atomic wedgies.  They might agree that at least an atomic wedgie to Eminence is a better option than disemboweling him, it's still not an acceptable option to them. 
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The problem was the the Brexit polling was so so so wrong.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
 Similarly, if 1.3 million people who voted for Brexit had NOT voted, the UK would have stayed in the EU.  So what?  Also, Ivan is voting. 
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Obviously if they had not voted to Leave then Leave wouldn't have won.  But those people, like Trump voters, weren't going to be swayed.  What happened was a lot of people who thought it was better to Stay than Leave didn't vote.

The comparison here is that people in battleground states who think Hillary is better than Trump are doing the country a disservice by not voting or voting for a 3rd Party.

 
Sweet J said:
I am requoting you so I remember.

This isn't a huge deal, but I took what you are saying as:  "Look, if you hate Trump AND Clinton (albeit you hate Clinton a little bit less), one reasonable reason to vote for Johnson rather than Clinton is that you DON'T LIKE CLINTON, so this makes her have a smaller margin of victory and it will send a message that Clinton doesn't have a mandate TO IMPLEMENT POLICY PROPOSALS YOU OPPOSE."
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I've edited to reflect what I was saying. 

 
Looking forward to Donald pointing out Obama's half-brother in the crowd tonight. Because there's no better way for Donald to fire up his base than pointing to an African immigrant with connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, and proclaiming "He's with me!"

 
Joe Summer said:
Looking forward to Donald pointing out Obama's half-brother in the crowd tonight. Because there's no better way for Donald to fire up his base than pointing to an African immigrant with connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, and proclaiming "He's with me!"
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On the plus side...how would the liberal media being able to bash him for it?

 
Coeur de Lion said:
I agree with this for the most part -- but the rural white working class has taken a legitimate beating over the past two decades or so and have largely been ignored by politicians on both sides. Hence, Trump.
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Good point. I get their anger and would agree with a platform geared around minimizing the hurt from industry shifts. The reality of open trade has always been that the larger benefits are spread over more people while the downside is very concentrated. Neither side has addressed that in any meaningful way that I can see.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Let us have a thought experiment.  We're running a referendum.  There are four choices on the ballot:

1)  Eminence is ritualistically disemboweled.

2)  Eminence receives a 20 minute atomic wedgie.

3)  Nobody does anything to Eminence

4) Eminence receives a nice fruit basket

Now, we've had a great deal of polling and we generally know that right now, Eminence receiving the wedgie is leading him getting disemboweled by about a 7% margin.  About 10% of voters favor doing nothing to Eminence and maybe 2% would send him a nice fruit basket.  Would we really harangue the guys voting for doing nothing to Eminence simply because we worry that if they don't vote for the wedgie, then Eminence will be disemboweled?  These people don't believe in atomic wedgies.  They might agree that at least an atomic wedgie to Eminence is a better option than disemboweling him, it's still not an acceptable option to them. 
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:lol:

 
Joe Summer said:
Looking forward to Donald pointing out Obama's half-brother in the crowd tonight. Because there's no better way for Donald to fire up his base than pointing to an African immigrant with connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, and proclaiming "He's with me!"
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He's saying it just the appetizer.. Clown #### show part 3 tonight-

 
Joe Summer said:
Looking forward to Donald pointing out Obama's half-brother in the crowd tonight. Because there's no better way for Donald to fire up his base than pointing to an African immigrant with connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, and proclaiming "He's with me!"
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''There's my good friend!  I have a tough time saying his name, so I nicknamed him Uncle Tom!  Isn't that right, Uncle Tom?''

 
If Hillary wins in a landslide, which I both expect and hope happens, her only mandate will be to repudiate Trump and Trumpism, whatever that is.   She's not leading in the polls due to any compelling message or charismatic leadership.

 
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