****OFFICIAL DYNASTY TRADES**** (18 Viewers)

[FreeBaGeL]

Traded Pickens for pick 2.01 to take Egbuka.

I am beginning to wonder if this was the right move with the trade this morning of PIckens to Dallas.

Pickens seems like a major sell-high to me on the trade news, and you go an overpay at the time that was probably already in line with where his value has risen to now.

I would still take Egbuka over Pickens, pretty easily.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Zay already earned the #1 target role last year. He can't get promoted above that. He could earn maybe 10 more targets this year honestly. We've seen his ceiling in this offense.

There are varying degrees of #1 target.

ARSB was the #1 target in Detroit in 2021 with 119. He was also the #1 target in 2023 with 164.

Lamar quietly was 6th in the NFL in pass attempts last year, which I think a lot of people would be surprised by, thinking he isn't a high volume passer or doesn't have high volume upside. It's perfectly within the realm of possibility that number could even go up if Henry falls off a cliff (which could happen at any time), and if Zay simultaneously earns a larger percentage share of #1 targets (like ASRB did) there is room for those targets to grow.

Not to mention Zay's TDs have been abnormally low relative to his number of targets so far, which could be a Zay thing but as we've seen many times in the past could also just be random variance in a high variance stat, which could regress more to the mean in the 8-10 range and still be pretty normal.

I feel like every few years there is a guy that the fantasy community constantly says has WR2 upside but not much more (or same thing for RBs) and they end up being more. Heck I'd have to go back in look, but ARSB was probably one of them in the 2021 offseason.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

I can't even fathom ranking any of these WRs above Zay. Not even out of college.

College zay in this draft is WR2, without a shadow of a doubt. The fact he's already put up 2 very nice seasons in an offense that isnt pass heavy, is just an added bonus.

I get that's part of his "drawback" being in BAL, but he progressed after yr1. Numbers trending up

The majority of top 10 drafted WRs (in the NFL draft) are pretty good and we got 2 of them in this draft. I don't love Tet or Hunter for that matter but I would rank both of them and at least 4 (if not 6) RBs over Flowers this year. Plus, Cam and maybe even 1-2 of the TEs in the right premium. Flowers is jocked way too hard in my opinion on here. I don't even think you could get a 1st for him in most of my leagues.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

Traded Pickens for pick 2.01 to take Egbuka.

I am beginning to wonder if this was the right move with the trade this morning of PIckens to Dallas.

Well, a knucklehead is a knucklehead regardless of their zip code.

Pickens has reportedly alienated coaches & QBs his entire time in PIT. Seems likely he’ll do the same in DAL. And they’re letting him play out his rookie contract, so this could end up being a 1-year deal.

But short-term, yeah - certainly potential for this to be a blow-it sell low, while Pickens goes off for 80/1200/8 or something.

I dunno. Dak is inarguably a better QB than anyone that Pickens has played with in the NFL. Brian Schottenheimer is still a TBD, but it's not inconceivable that Tomlin and Smith/Canada are difficult to play for. Watching the Steelers last season emphasized how frustrated Pickens was with the offense/QB situation.

You might be right but when Pittsburg gives up on a WR lately, there is a reason. Look at Antonio Brown, Martavis Bryant, or Chase Claypool. Heck even Diontae Johnson last year. If you can't make it work in Pittsburg, the grass probably isn't greener on the other side. Plus, this is a team that will provide no structure for him and let him talk all he wants. Just feels like a mess waiting to happen.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

ETA: A bunch of quotes from the ARSB thread on FBGs before his breakout 2022 season. Note the "I see him as a much better NFL player than FF player" which is the exact same quote used about Flowers up above in this thread.

All that said, I agree with your early assessment. The alpha isn’t on the roster yet, dynasty owners should be selling high after this year. His ceiling is WR2/WR3 IRL and I don’t think he’ll be anything more than a solid WR who is always fighting for his role.

Very good description. I see him as a much better NFL player than FF player. Given the right team and situation could be a nice FF player (think Welker/Edelmen type) that typically gets overlooked.

Low ceiling IMO. Will never be a WR1 or play the X; he is exactly what they drafted him to be, a flanker/slot guy who knows how to get open. Gonna be in the league for 10-12 years if he stays healthy. Complementary player to the talent alongside him.]

I think I'm a buyer at late 1st value. I certainly don't expect him to keep this ridiculous pace. However, I could see a high floor, low ceiling WR2/3 for years to come. Especially in PPR. I don't think I've seen a negative report on him. Works hard, studies, blocks, good teammate, etc., etc.

His value seems to be a little overhyped. i got him back in a package Dynasty deal and I’m happy to have him. But if someone offered me a late 1st for him I’d have a hard time not smashing accept. And if not, he’s a nice asset to have - just not worth drafting as a WR1 based on the down the stretch production.

like ARSB for a 1000+/7 season, with let’s say, 90 receptions. That’s 5.29/game, ~35% fewer than that magical stretch. It would make him a rock solid WR2, with potential to sneak into WR1 territory with a little luck (he’s also used in the run game and TDs can be fickle). If I can trade him for a late 2023 1st in dynasty, I’m also in.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

wasn't involved but just a brutal undersell of JJ in one of my SF PPR Best Ball Dynasty leagues this morning

Team A gets: Jefferson
Team B gets: Mixon, Diggs, and 1.5 (Ward) pick

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months.

 

[ghostguy123]

FFPC best ball Empire

Tyler Warren

For

Tee Higgins

 

[ghostguy123]

Zay already earned the #1 target role last year. He can't get promoted above that. He could earn maybe 10 more targets this year honestly. We've seen his ceiling in this offense.

We haven't though. Derrick Henry isn't gonna last forever

 

[barackdhouse]

Zay already earned the #1 target role last year. He can't get promoted above that. He could earn maybe 10 more targets this year honestly. We've seen his ceiling in this offense.

We haven't though. Derrick Henry isn't gonna last forever

It isn't all about Henry, it's about their fundamental run first mentality, which includes designed runs for Jackson. There are also more passing plays where he takes off running than on many teams. I just don't think the floor is there for Zay. The ceiling is gorgeous. And when Henry is gone they will actually have other RBs to play the position and the Ravens will continue to prioritize it.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Traded Pickens for pick 2.01 to take Egbuka.

I am beginning to wonder if this was the right move with the trade this morning of PIckens to Dallas.

Well, a knucklehead is a knucklehead regardless of their zip code.

Pickens has reportedly alienated coaches & QBs his entire time in PIT. Seems likely he’ll do the same in DAL. And they’re letting him play out his rookie contract, so this could end up being a 1-year deal.

But short-term, yeah - certainly potential for this to be a blow-it sell low, while Pickens goes off for 80/1200/8 or something.

I dunno. Dak is inarguably a better QB than anyone that Pickens has played with in the NFL. Brian Schottenheimer is still a TBD, but it's not inconceivable that Tomlin and Smith/Canada are difficult to play for. Watching the Steelers last season emphasized how frustrated Pickens was with the offense/QB situation.

I just read an interesting stat that the Steelers QBs were better than Dak on a weekly basis.

And now he’s behind at least Lamb in the pecking order, a true alpha who commands a huge target share. It’s possible that Pickens role is limited to “deep threat”.

So rather than bring inarguable, it might actually be arguable that Pickens situation got worse.

TBD in my opinion, but I don’t think it’s the lock you assert.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Dynasty superflex Rbs get bonus for yards rushed

Gave Darnold

Got Chase brown and 3.08

Nice return on Darnold.

 

[barackdhouse]

Zay already earned the #1 target role last year. He can't get promoted above that. He could earn maybe 10 more targets this year honestly. We've seen his ceiling in this offense.

There are varying degrees of #1 target.

ARSB was the #1 target in Detroit in 2021 with 119. He was also the #1 target in 2023 with 164.

In this comp I'll take the under by a mile for Flowers. Does Goff run as good as Jackson? Or as much?

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

FFPC best ball Empire

Tyler Warren

For

Tee Higgins

That’s a seriously nice return on a position that historically has a low hit rate & slow development curve. I’m taking Higgins 100/100 times here.

 

[barackdhouse]

FFPC best ball Empire

Tyler Warren

For

Tee Higgins

That’s a seriously nice return on a position that historically has a low hit rate & slow development curve. I’m taking Higgins 100/100 times here.

I'm probably 100/100 the other direction

 

[FreeBaGeL]

I don't really understand why Dallas WR2 is this coveted position people continue to chase year after year. When was the last time it actually netted good fantasy numbers? 2019 with a modest season from Michael Gallup? And before that Cole Beasely with like 800 yards? Why are people always chasing the Dallas WR2?

Seattle's WR2 has outperformed Dallas' WR2 for like 7 years straight, and no one gets excited every time Seattle drafts or brings in some random guy, hoping they might win the WR2 role in the Seattle offense one day.

Are we expecting Pickens to put up better numbers as Dallas' WR2 than he did as Pittsburgh's WR1? I don't see any evidence that we should be.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

FFPC best ball Empire

Tyler Warren

For

Tee Higgins

That’s a seriously nice return on a position that historically has a low hit rate & slow development curve. I’m taking Higgins 100/100 times here.

I'm probably 100/100 the other direction

That’s what makes deals work I guess.

 

[barackdhouse]

Zay already earned the #1 target role last year. He can't get promoted above that. He could earn maybe 10 more targets this year honestly. We've seen his ceiling in this offense.

There are varying degrees of #1 target.

Yeah ARSB plays in Detroit and Flowers plays in Baltimore. Granted Detroit is known as a run first team as well but here are Jackson's carries per game in his career:

9.2 (rookie year)
11.7
10.6
11.1
9.3
9.3
8.2 (2024)

Total for his career is 9.8 carries per game. He has converted 361 first downs in that time.

You can't comp a Goff led offense vs a Jackson led offense when we're talking about number of plays ran per game and how that might translate to targets. Unless you make a really big hedge in the direction of less plays to go around for the Ravens. Now, you said LJ was top 10 in pass attempts last year I have to admit that is indeed surprising. And if you look at that list of carries per game per season you'll see the trend is downward. But I just don't see it hitting anything close to Detroit ARSB levels. I did acknowledge originally that there is a little room to grow and I called it around 10 more targets. I'll stand by that. He got 116 I say 125 is his ceiling.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Ted Nguyen video showing how Pickens runs routes when he’s not the primary target. Yikes.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Zay already earned the #1 target role last year. He can't get promoted above that. He could earn maybe 10 more targets this year honestly. We've seen his ceiling in this offense.

There are varying degrees of #1 target.

Yeah ARSB plays in Detroit and Flowers plays in Baltimore. Granted Detroit is known as a run first team as well but here are Jackson's carries per game in his career:

9.2 (rookie year)
11.7
10.6
11.1
9.3
9.3
8.2 (2024)

Total for his career is 9.8 carries per game. He has converted 361 first downs in that time.

You can't comp a Goff led offense vs a Jackson led offense when we're talking about number of plays ran per game and how that might translate to targets. Unless you make a really big hedge in the direction of less plays to go around for the Ravens. Now, you said LJ was top 10 in pass attempts last year I have to admit that is indeed surprising. And if you look at that list of carries per game per season you'll see the trend is downward. But I just don't see it hitting anything close to Detroit ARSB levels. I did acknowledge originally that there is a little room to grow and I called it around 10 more targets. I'll stand by that. He got 116 I say 125 is his ceiling.

I actually misread the list on pass attempts for LJax. I thought I had sorted it by attempts but it was sorted by yards. He was actually 16th in attempts, not top 10, so my bad on that one.

Regardless, ARSB was just the first example off the top of my head. The point is not to compare their specific situations, but rather show that often when people list a guy as having a capped ceiling, he busts right through it. All of those guys that did it had some reason why people thought their ceiling was capped, but in the end it didn't end up being the cap people thought it was. If Zay busts through it too maybe we'll be having this same conversation 3 years from now with Zay as the example and someone will be saying "no no no, Zay was different, he wasn't limited by <insert whatever the new player's cap is>".

Like you said, LJax's carries have been declining every year. He's getting close to that age where a lot of running QBs see a big drop in their running stats. And then what happens if he twists and ankle or dings his non-throwing shoulder and has to stay in the pocket more. Or maybe he gets a concussion and the coaches decide they want to protect him better and not let him run as much.

Lamar has actually averaged as high as 32 pass attempts per game in a season before, so it's not like this past year will necessarily be his career high even without an injury. 32 attempts per game is 550 for a season, which is more than Goff threw last year.

And that's all discounting any room for Zay to improve his own target share or efficiency even if the attempts never increase. Even just a reversion to the mean on TDs to 7 or 8 TDs would have had him as WR11 last year.

 

[barackdhouse]

FFPC Single-QB

I gave Bryce Young, Ferguson
I got Kyler Murray, 4.03

Just following up on this trade from mid-March. Bryce Young was dropped before the cutdown so in a sense it's really Ferguson for Kyler and the 4.03, which exchanged hands two more times before coming back to me in the Flowers deal. Then I moved it for 4.09 and 5.02 where I took the Bears rookie RB Monangai and Cedric Tillman respectively. Trade partner took the Broncos 3rd round rookie Pat Bryant at 4.03.

I acquired McLaughlin and a future 5th with that first iteration of 4.03 prior to the NFL draft. I don't believe in Estime but I do in Harvey and McLaughlin and think he can still be worthy as RB depth for me until such a time as my squad is loaded. But I know McLaughlin is on most waivers and all things equal I wish I'd just kept that 4.03 in a vacuum.

But! I think I posted it earlier today or maybe not but after the Pickens news broke this morning I moved two future 5ths including one from the McL deal to move back into the draft at 5.06 and take Roman Wilson.

The first partner parlayed it into 3.03 by adding Likely to it. Then they took that 3.03 and turned it into 2.05 by adding their future 2nd to it (they were champs this year so probably late eh) and turned it into Kyle Williams. So all in all I might not have ever made the Flowers deal if this 4.03 hadn't bounced all over. It was the piece that put that one over the top for me (just kidding)

Cheers to the 4.03 for getting around so well!

 

[TVT 0 N S T A]

I don't really understand why Dallas WR2 is this coveted position people continue to chase year after year. When was the last time it actually netted good fantasy numbers? 2019 with a modest season from Michael Gallup? And before that Cole Beasely with like 800 yards? Why are people always chasing the Dallas WR2?

Seattle's WR2 has outperformed Dallas' WR2 for like 7 years straight, and no one gets excited every time Seattle drafts or brings in some random guy, hoping they might win the WR2 role in the Seattle offense one day.

Are we expecting Pickens to put up better numbers as Dallas' WR2 than he did as Pittsburgh's WR1? I don't see any evidence that we should be.

Of course, one could argue they haven't had any talent at the WR2 position? Price is always right for a player and I'd rather bet on Pickens talent over guys like Higgins, Harris and maybe even Goldin? So, wherever you slot those for rookie draft picks is probably his perceived value. The guy is only 24 years old.

I also don't know that I can buy the Steelers QB past/future appears to be better than what he's walking into with Dallas.

 

[Soulfly3]

I can't even fathom ranking any of these WRs above Zay. Not even out of college.

College zay in this draft is WR2, without a shadow of a doubt. The fact he's already put up 2 very nice seasons in an offense that isnt pass heavy, is just an added bonus.

I get that's part of his "drawback" being in BAL, but he progressed after yr1. Numbers trending up

I don't even think you could get a 1st for him in most of my leagues.

And I like I said earlier, he's my WR2 of this class... I can absolutely be fine with you having about 3-4 RBs ahead of him in this class too if you want. I have zero need for RBs at the moment, so I wouldnt sell Zay for anything less than 1.03

Call me nuts, but a players first 2 seasons for me would typically be the guy's floor, not his ceiling.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

Traded Pickens for pick 2.01 to take Egbuka.

I am beginning to wonder if this was the right move with the trade this morning of PIckens to Dallas.

Well, a knucklehead is a knucklehead regardless of their zip code.

Pickens has reportedly alienated coaches & QBs his entire time in PIT. Seems likely he’ll do the same in DAL. And they’re letting him play out his rookie contract, so this could end up being a 1-year deal.

But short-term, yeah - certainly potential for this to be a blow-it sell low, while Pickens goes off for 80/1200/8 or something.

I dunno. Dak is inarguably a better QB than anyone that Pickens has played with in the NFL. Brian Schottenheimer is still a TBD, but it's not inconceivable that Tomlin and Smith/Canada are difficult to play for. Watching the Steelers last season emphasized how frustrated Pickens was with the offense/QB situation.

I just read an interesting stat that the Steelers QBs were better than Dak on a weekly basis.

And now he’s behind at least Lamb in the pecking order, a true alpha who commands a huge target share. It’s possible that Pickens role is limited to “deep threat”.

So rather than bring inarguable, it might actually be arguable that Pickens situation got worse.

TBD in my opinion, but I don’t think it’s the lock you assert.

Reference? I'm highly skeptical that from 22-24 the sum of the Steelers QBs were better than Dak in pretty much any relevant category.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Reference? I'm highly skeptical that from 22-24 the sum of the Steelers QBs were better than Dak in pretty much any relevant category.

I read a lot of stuff. I can’t recall exactly where I read that one or I would have linked to it, but I assure you I did.

They showed the numbers. It beared out.

That said, Dak has had some injuries, and played without Lamb (and cook) for quite a few games, so it may have been a case of stats telling a story that wasn’t entirely accurate based on a limited data set.

My point remains though. This could be 1. Good, 2. Neutral, or 3. Bad for Pickens. Time will tell. It’s all about usage and targets.

 

[titusbramble]

10 team PPR SF not involved

Pickens, 2.05 for 1.07

 

[Buckna]

I don't really understand why Dallas WR2 is this coveted position people continue to chase year after year. When was the last time it actually netted good fantasy numbers? 2019 with a modest season from Michael Gallup? And before that Cole Beasely with like 800 yards? Why are people always chasing the Dallas WR2?

Seattle's WR2 has outperformed Dallas' WR2 for like 7 years straight, and no one gets excited every time Seattle drafts or brings in some random guy, hoping they might win the WR2 role in the Seattle offense one day.

Are we expecting Pickens to put up better numbers as Dallas' WR2 than he did as Pittsburgh's WR1? I don't see any evidence that we should be.

Of course, one could argue they haven't had any talent at the WR2 position? Price is always right for a player and I'd rather bet on Pickens talent over guys like Higgins, Harris and maybe even Goldin? So, wherever you slot those for rookie draft picks is probably his perceived value. The guy is only 24 years old.

I also don't know that I can buy the Steelers QB past/future appears to be better than what he's walking into with Dallas.

In general I agree, Gallup seemed like a nice prospect and had two very good seasons before getting injured and after that could never stay healthy. Tolbert hasn't done much. Cooks seemed to be cooked by the time they acquired him. However, they had both a 27 year old Cooper and Lamb in his 2nd season in 2021 and Dak for 16 games and only one of them was barely above 1k yards so I think the question on how much value the WR2 in Dallas really has is still valid. 2020 can probably give them a mulligan and not hold it against them as it was Lamb's rookie year and more importantly Dak only played 5 games.

 

[menobrown]

Btw, I believe he was closer to 14 ppg last year in PPR.

We must have different scoring systems. He only had 3 games over 20 in my league, and averaged 12.1, right between Rashid Shaheed and Khalil Shakir.

I'm not looking to get into the Zay Flowers debate, I'm sure it's all been covered, but in FFPC leagues which are standard PPR with performance scoring(which I don't think factored into a single point for him since he does not play defense or special teams) he's hit exactly 12.9 PPG each of his two seasons. Not sure how all these numbers can be so far off from each other? I don't think he's ever fumbled, has one rushing TD and one 2 point conversion. Pretty standard stuff. Was actually right between DK and Pickens in this format last year.

Either way his PPG production is amazingly consistent considering his actual week to week variance is very much not that.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

 

[barackdhouse]

In early season October 2024 @menobrown and I made a straight trade that I couldn't find posted here, but worth a small follow-up.

I gave my 2025 1st (ended up being 1.09)
I got Pitts

Now obviously I still need a lot more from Pitts to make this worth it for my side, but I thought the 1.09 side has an interesting tale. He moved 1.09 and 1.03 to move up to 1.02 (@Penguin) and got 2.02 back, took Hampton at 1.02 and Burden at 2.02. I presume there was a tier jump for him between pick 2 and 3 and that otherwise the difference between 1.09 and 2.02 wasn't enough to dissuade him. I can see it. Penguin managed to parlay 1.02 and 2.02 into two quality starting RBs and might not have otherwise. Most have Kaleb Johnson above the tier of Skattebo/Tuten and so Penguin was able to get Harvey at 1.03 and Kaleb at 1.09.

Really good trades for both teams IMO. Would I rather have kept my future 1st than Pitts? Knowing that I had a great season and made the playoffs and then pooped into zero money in 4th place? I guess so since he didn't do ****. I'd rather have Kaleb Johnson at 1.09 but would I have made the playoffs without Pitts? IDK actually because the *very* high rake FFPC site doesn't let us look at old box scores.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

Btw, I believe he was closer to 14 ppg last year in PPR.

We must have different scoring systems. He only had 3 games over 20 in my league, and averaged 12.1, right between Rashid Shaheed and Khalil Shakir.

I'm not looking to get into the Zay Flowers debate, I'm sure it's all been covered, but in FFPC leagues which are standard PPR with performance scoring(which I don't think factored into a single point for him since he does not play defense or special teams) he's hit exactly 12.9 PPG each of his two seasons. Not sure how all these numbers can be so far off from each other? I don't think he's ever fumbled, has one rushing TD and one 2 point conversion. Pretty standard stuff. Was actually right between DK and Pickens in this format last year.

Either way his PPG production is amazingly consistent considering his actual week to week variance is very much not that.

I think people all can agree he is a consistent asset. I think the argument is more that people are talking him up as a great fantasy asset with this huge ceiling and being worth a top 3 pick. He is fine but I'd much rather take a top 7-8 pick in this draft easily and swing for something that can truly be special. Like Brian Thomas last year who went in that range or later.

 

[menobrown]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

 

[eighsse2]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

I'm pretty sure I'd take the Jefferson side of that one.

 

[menobrown]

Btw, I believe he was closer to 14 ppg last year in PPR.

We must have different scoring systems. He only had 3 games over 20 in my league, and averaged 12.1, right between Rashid Shaheed and Khalil Shakir.

I'm not looking to get into the Zay Flowers debate, I'm sure it's all been covered, but in FFPC leagues which are standard PPR with performance scoring(which I don't think factored into a single point for him since he does not play defense or special teams) he's hit exactly 12.9 PPG each of his two seasons. Not sure how all these numbers can be so far off from each other? I don't think he's ever fumbled, has one rushing TD and one 2 point conversion. Pretty standard stuff. Was actually right between DK and Pickens in this format last year.

Either way his PPG production is amazingly consistent considering his actual week to week variance is very much not that.

I think people all can agree he is a consistent asset. I think the argument is more that people are talking him up as a great fantasy asset with this huge ceiling and being worth a top 3 pick. He is fine but I'd much rather take a top 7-8 pick in this draft easily and swing for something that can truly be special. Like Brian Thomas last year who went in that range or later.

I'm not entering the Zay Flowers debate I was just trying to interject info in his scoring but in terms of the bolded it depends how you define consistency if you agree with that or not.

In terms of total PPG over the course of a season. Yes. In terms of weekly consistency that's a big hell no. Saw a tweet just the other day that he had 7 games last year with over 70 yards receiving and 8 with under 40.

Old friend of mine's son got heavy into fantasy and he'd text me every Sunday morning for lineup calls. I think I told him like 4 of 5 weeks in a row bad info on Zay Flowers. I can recall telling him that he should stop asking me, or do the oppposite of what I say, that no player was harder for me to figure out when to use last year then Zay.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

I'm pretty sure I'd take the Jefferson side of that one.

Me too. Funny he offered me Flowers instead of 2.06 and I still turned him down. Just can't trade him unless you aren't trying to win really. I'd have smash accepted JJ/Hock/Jones for 3 mid-late 1sts and 2 2nds. That feels easy to me.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

Why would you not be interested in that? Feels easy to me unless you just really wanted to make your picks.

 

[Jonesin For Some Football]

Btw, I believe he was closer to 14 ppg last year in PPR.

We must have different scoring systems. He only had 3 games over 20 in my league, and averaged 12.1, right between Rashid Shaheed and Khalil Shakir.

I'm not looking to get into the Zay Flowers debate, I'm sure it's all been covered, but in FFPC leagues which are standard PPR with performance scoring(which I don't think factored into a single point for him since he does not play defense or special teams) he's hit exactly 12.9 PPG each of his two seasons. Not sure how all these numbers can be so far off from each other? I don't think he's ever fumbled, has one rushing TD and one 2 point conversion. Pretty standard stuff. Was actually right between DK and Pickens in this format last year.

Either way his PPG production is amazingly consistent considering his actual week to week variance is very much not that.

I think people all can agree he is a consistent asset. I think the argument is more that people are talking him up as a great fantasy asset with this huge ceiling and being worth a top 3 pick. He is fine but I'd much rather take a top 7-8 pick in this draft easily and swing for something that can truly be special. Like Brian Thomas last year who went in that range or later.

I'm not entering the Zay Flowers debate I was just trying to interject info in his scoring but in terms of the bolded it depends how you define consistency if you agree with that or not.

In terms of total PPG over the course of a season. Yes. In terms of weekly consistency that's a big hell no. Saw a tweet just the other day that he had 7 games last year with over 70 yards receiving and 8 with under 40.

Old friend of mine's son got heavy into fantasy and he'd text me every Sunday morning for lineup calls. I think I told him like 4 of 5 weeks in a row bad info on Zay Flowers. I can recall telling him that he should stop asking me, or do the oppposite of what I say, that no player was harder for me to figure out when to use last year then Zay.

Totally agreed with that on a weekly basis and I don't have Flowers on any team. I meant more as where he finishes overall and the fact that he will see targets. I just don't view him as a high end asset that some on here seem to be. Funny how it varies depending on group.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

I probably would have snapped accept, but this is team build dependent of course. With all those picks I’m assuming you need more bodies.

But it’s very likely that nothing you’d get at 1.06, 1.07, 1.11, 2.04 or 2.06 would come close to the ceiling of JJ. That you would have received Hock & AJ as well is just icing on the cake (though I don’t assign a ton of future value to AJ)

That’s a pretty reasonable price to pay for JJ, in my opinion.

But again, if you’re in a rebuild, having the picks is likely more value.

 

[Buckna]

Since the Pickens trade is fresh in the news; 1-2-3-1-Flex 12 team PPR with the 3.08 on the clock and a lot of people trying to trade for it:

DK Metcalf, 4.02, '26 3rd (guess mid)
for
3.08, and '26 1st (guess mid)

The 1st is from the team that had the 1.02 this year but they should be improved after adding DK & Hampton and contend for a playoff spot (good RB's/WR's, QB/TE are weak at the moment but still time to trade to improve there). Took TE Mason Taylor with the 3.08 as I only had Pitts & Jake Ferguson, tried to trade into a pick starting from the late 2nd round for him with no luck. Injuries derailed me last year and I barely made the playoffs so retooling some. 4.02 hasn't been picked yet

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

I'm pretty sure I'd take the Jefferson side of that one.

Why would you not be interested in that? Feels easy to me unless you just really wanted to make your picks.

Add me to this list.

 

[menobrown]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

Why would you not be interested in that? Feels easy to me unless you just really wanted to make your picks.

The easy part was the no and for the same reason I would accept or reject any trade, trying to do best thing for my team of course.

Have some studs like Barkley and Josh Allen and some other good players but don't view my team as a player away from being the league favorite, do think my team could use an infusion of youth and productivity specifically at the positions that I think will be available with the picks.

 

[barackdhouse]

Btw, I believe he was closer to 14 ppg last year in PPR.

We must have different scoring systems. He only had 3 games over 20 in my league, and averaged 12.1, right between Rashid Shaheed and Khalil Shakir.

I'm not looking to get into the Zay Flowers debate, I'm sure it's all been covered, but in FFPC leagues which are standard PPR with performance scoring(which I don't think factored into a single point for him since he does not play defense or special teams) he's hit exactly 12.9 PPG each of his two seasons. Not sure how all these numbers can be so far off from each other? I don't think he's ever fumbled, has one rushing TD and one 2 point conversion. Pretty standard stuff. Was actually right between DK and Pickens in this format last year.

Either way his PPG production is amazingly consistent considering his actual week to week variance is very much not that.

I think people all can agree he is a consistent asset. I think the argument is more that people are talking him up as a great fantasy asset with this huge ceiling and being worth a top 3 pick. He is fine but I'd much rather take a top 7-8 pick in this draft easily and swing for something that can truly be special. Like Brian Thomas last year who went in that range or later.

I'm not entering the Zay Flowers debate I was just trying to interject info in his scoring but in terms of the bolded it depends how you define consistency if you agree with that or not.

In terms of total PPG over the course of a season. Yes. In terms of weekly consistency that's a big hell no. Saw a tweet just the other day that he had 7 games last year with over 70 yards receiving and 8 with under 40.

Old friend of mine's son got heavy into fantasy and he'd text me every Sunday morning for lineup calls. I think I told him like 4 of 5 weeks in a row bad info on Zay Flowers. I can recall telling him that he should stop asking me, or do the oppposite of what I say, that no player was harder for me to figure out when to use last year then Zay.

Another side note on the Baltimore offense. I'd be curious to see the pass/run splits on play-calling in the second half of games they're winning. There are game scripts for the Ravens where they own the scoreboard in the 2nd half of games and also maybe spend just a lil more time on defense. In close games Flowers to the moon though.

 

[menobrown]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

I probably would have snapped accept, but this is team build dependent of course. With all those picks I’m assuming you need more bodies.

But it’s very likely that nothing you’d get at 1.06, 1.07, 1.11, 2.04 or 2.06 would come close to the ceiling of JJ. That you would have received Hock & AJ as well is just icing on the cake (though I don’t assign a ton of future value to AJ)

That’s a pretty reasonable price to pay for JJ, in my opinion.

But again, if you’re in a rebuild, having the picks is likely more value.

I like JJ as much as most, my #2 redraft WR for sure and probably dynasty, but he's been an 18-19 PPR PPG WR the last few years. That's obviously valuable but it's like 4'ish points more then WR15'ish. I just think I can improve the totality of my team a lot more with the picks. I'd only do a trade like this if roster space was very limiting.

Jones and Hock just don't do much for me even though Jones would have instantly become my best bet to be my RB2 for next season and Hock my 1A/1B TE.


On paper when I walk out of this draft I'll likely have my new RB2, RB3, WR3 or 4 and TE2 and still have one of those seconds left. Just think that's going to end up being more impactful to my team and I think allow me to do a competitive rebuild of both getting younger and contending.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Wow....where can I get in to the leagues where JJ goes so low. That is like the 3rd or 4th criminally bad trade posted in here for him in the last couple of months

Seriously mind blowing. I’ve seen several awful returns on JJ on Reddit as well.

It’s absolutely bizarre. Darnold proved that JJ is QB-proof. IMO it’s Chase & JJ as WR1-2 in dynasty, and both are cornerstone players.

I wish someone in my leagues would move off of JJ that affordably. No one in any of them even want to trade him, including the rebuilding team - I inquired in group chat and was met with a flat “not interested in selling JJ. Building around him”.

Sensible response IMO.

Me too. I got offered 1.04, 1.07, a future 1st, and 2.07 for him and turned it down. I'm a championship team with no desire to make my team worse. These offers in here are just laughable. You just don't move players like that unless you get blown away and these definitely aren't that. Maybe I should start asking what people want in my other dynasty leagues where I dont' have him.

Conversely 2 days ago in a a one start QB single PPR league I was offered JJ, Hockenson, and Aaron Jones for 1.6, 1.7, 1.11, 2.4 and 2.6 and was not interested.

I probably would have snapped accept, but this is team build dependent of course. With all those picks I’m assuming you need more bodies.

But it’s very likely that nothing you’d get at 1.06, 1.07, 1.11, 2.04 or 2.06 would come close to the ceiling of JJ. That you would have received Hock & AJ as well is just icing on the cake (though I don’t assign a ton of future value to AJ)

That’s a pretty reasonable price to pay for JJ, in my opinion.

But again, if you’re in a rebuild, having the picks is likely more value.

I like JJ as much as most, my #2 redraft WR for sure and probably dynasty, but he's been an 18-19 PPR PPG WR the last few years. That's obviously valuable but it's like 4'ish points more then WR15'ish. I just think I can improve the totality of my team a lot more with the picks. I'd only do a trade like this if roster space was very limiting.

Jones and Hock just don't do much for me even though Jones would have instantly become my best bet to be my RB2 for next season and Hock my 1A/1B TE.


On paper when I walk out of this draft I'll likely have my new RB2, RB3, WR3 or 4 and TE2 and still have one of those seconds left. Just think that's going to end up being more impactful to my team and I think allow me to do a competitive rebuild of both getting younger and contending.

Definitely reasonable.

 

[TVT 0 N S T A]

Btw, I believe he was closer to 14 ppg last year in PPR.

We must have different scoring systems. He only had 3 games over 20 in my league, and averaged 12.1, right between Rashid Shaheed and Khalil Shakir.

I'm not looking to get into the Zay Flowers debate, I'm sure it's all been covered, but in FFPC leagues which are standard PPR with performance scoring(which I don't think factored into a single point for him since he does not play defense or special teams) he's hit exactly 12.9 PPG each of his two seasons. Not sure how all these numbers can be so far off from each other? I don't think he's ever fumbled, has one rushing TD and one 2 point conversion. Pretty standard stuff. Was actually right between DK and Pickens in this format last year.

Either way his PPG production is amazingly consistent considering his actual week to week variance is very much not that.

I think people all can agree he is a consistent asset. I think the argument is more that people are talking him up as a great fantasy asset with this huge ceiling and being worth a top 3 pick. He is fine but I'd much rather take a top 7-8 pick in this draft easily and swing for something that can truly be special. Like Brian Thomas last year who went in that range or later.

In all fairness though, BTJ (removing anything he has done in the NFL) would have been the top WR prospect this year. I think BTJ's college film is better than Tet McMillan or Travis Hunter. This draft isn't as stacked as advertised because a lot of players went to spots that are pretty meh.

This was the year we were all supposed to get starting caliber RB's to be instant contenders and the draft really only produced 5 RB's with a fantasy first round grade for me.

I don't think Zay Flowers is a stud but comparing any WR to BTJ in this draft class seems pretty far-fetched.

 

[BeTheMatch]

Not a single owner in a 24-man league was willing to give up a third-round rookie pick for Stefon Diggs. So there's that.

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Not a single owner in a 24-man league was willing to give up a third-round rookie pick for Stefon Diggs. So there's that.

Man, I tired to get him for a 2nd + 3rd and was rejected. Like cmon man - dude’s 31. wtf

 

[Soulfly3]

Btw, I believe he was closer to 14 ppg last year in PPR.

We must have different scoring systems. He only had 3 games over 20 in my league, and averaged 12.1, right between Rashid Shaheed and Khalil Shakir.

I'm not looking to get into the Zay Flowers debate, I'm sure it's all been covered, but in FFPC leagues which are standard PPR with performance scoring(which I don't think factored into a single point for him since he does not play defense or special teams) he's hit exactly 12.9 PPG each of his two seasons. Not sure how all these numbers can be so far off from each other? I don't think he's ever fumbled, has one rushing TD and one 2 point conversion. Pretty standard stuff. Was actually right between DK and Pickens in this format last year.

Either way his PPG production is amazingly consistent considering his actual week to week variance is very much not that.

I think people all can agree he is a consistent asset. I think the argument is more that people are talking him up as a great fantasy asset with this huge ceiling and being worth a top 3 pick. He is fine but I'd much rather take a top 7-8 pick in this draft easily and swing for something that can truly be special. Like Brian Thomas last year who went in that range or later.

In all fairness though, BTJ (removing anything he has done in the NFL) would have been the top WR prospect this year. I think BTJ's college film is better than Tet McMillan or Travis Hunter. This draft isn't as stacked as advertised because a lot of players went to spots that are pretty meh.

This was the year we were all supposed to get starting caliber RB's to be instant contenders and the draft really only produced 5 RB's with a fantasy first round grade for me.

I don't think Zay Flowers is a stud but comparing any WR to BTJ in this draft class seems pretty far-fetched.

Comparing Hunter to BTJ farfetched? How so?

BTJ was in his 3rd season and had Nabers pulling traffic for him. He is a great WR and was great in college too

But Hunter had more receptions and more yds. 2 fewer TDs, in his 2nd season, w no other weapons and playing both sides of the ball

Not sure how there's no comparison

 

[menobrown]

This was the year we were all supposed to get starting caliber RB's to be instant contenders and the draft really only produced 5 RB's with a fantasy first round grade for me.

Not to get off subject but ADP(using FFPC), and me, has 6 RB's in the first 8-9 players.

Compare that probably the greatest RB class of all time, 2017, which had an ADP of 4 RB's in the top 10 but 6 in the top 12, 7 in top 13.

And both classes were comparable in terms of competition among WR and TE's so on the whole seems pretty comparable.

Not sure what your expectation is, and I've seen some other people express disappointment with the RB class, but I feel like it's really strong and we were not oversold on it at all.

 

[Hurl Bruce]

12 team SF, TE-premium league

Traded

1.12
2.12

for

Bucky Irving

Someone re-assure me that there isn't some news on Irving's health that I was not aware of.