***Official*** FFA iDating Thread (2 Viewers)

[krista4]

I'm going to add my update here, even though it has nothing to do with iDating, because it came out in the context of this thread anyway. A reminder: I don't want to date anyone, but then met this seemingly perfect guy last Wednesday night. In classic Otisian fashion, we exchanged many, many text messages (in his defense, this is because I told him that I do not talk on the phone, which is true).We carried this on for a while (I had plans every evening but Thursday, when I was nursing a hangover), and then on Sunday he sent me this text:"When do we have time to hang out? U work during the day, i have my daughter at night, weekends i work at night and u try to stay busy. What time does that leave"So I texted back that that sounded really pessimistic, but we could figure something out.Then Sunday night I was at dinner in my neighborhood, steps from where he was working, and after dinner I texted to see if he was there, and he said yes, and I asked if I should stop by, and here's what went down from there:FPG (Formerly Perfect Guy): "what time? I have a friend stopping by for a while and wouldn't want u to feel ignored."Me: "That's OK. I just had dinner at bin 36 and thought maybe I'd stop by since I was right here."FPG: "Please, not the drama queen act. I dont think i can handle a breakdown." [Krista Note: ]FPG: "I would love to see u, but if honesty and reality isnt something your [sic] into, i'll pass."Me: "I hope you're not serious about that ####."FPG: "Let's talk another day."Me: "I've a better idea...let's not."FPG: "Perfect!"FPG (five minutes later): "For a Lawyer, u really are sensitive...What's the best day for me to buy u dinner next week?"I haven't responded. WTF? The guy freaked out and seems to be bipolar. I will no longer listen to any "chicks are crazy" talk here any more.

Wow, that's some bizarre behavior on his part...Drama queen act and breakdown?WTF?

This actually just occurred to me...I wonder if he was mixing me up with someone else? Not the whole time, but in that series of messages? Ahhh, but then the "you're too sensitive for a lawyer" part wouldn't make sense, unless he was trying to cover.ETA: Perhaps he's just insane.

That ocurred to me also, as those two emails "The drama queen one and the honesty one) souns SO out of context...I would ask him about it...

I'd be more likely to if I cared, but I really just don't. I kind of wish I did, but I'm so anti-drama that even dealing with this at all is too much for me. Thanks to all for their thoughts...I remember that story, BnB! Thanks BG, for the kind words.

 

[krista4]

Could someone in here let me know if the marital issue 15-pager is worth reading? Looks like something I'd normally like, but dedicating myself to 15 pages seems like a lot at this point. TIA.

 

[code]

Could someone in here let me know if the marital issue 15-pager is worth reading? Looks like something I'd normally like, but dedicating myself to 15 pages seems like a lot at this point. TIA.

MITYH actually has only posted a half dozen times in there...it's mostly speculation, commentary, and some shtick...arguments over what might have happened, debate over what he should do next, and shots from the peanut gallery...typical FFA stuff...I got wrapped up in it, read like mad until I finally caught up, just as it ran out of steam...MITYH claims round two at home will be tonight, should be more to read then...

 

[krista4]

Could someone in here let me know if the marital issue 15-pager is worth reading? Looks like something I'd normally like, but dedicating myself to 15 pages seems like a lot at this point. TIA.

MITYH actually has only posted a half dozen times in there...it's mostly speculation, commentary, and some shtick...arguments over what might have happened, debate over what he should do next, and shots from the peanut gallery...typical FFA stuff...I got wrapped up in it, read like mad until I finally caught up, just as it ran out of steam...MITYH claims round two at home will be tonight, should be more to read then...

Thanks. I keep up with the endless Otis/HBFA thread because I was there all along, but I wasn't sure about jumping into a 15-pager at page one.

 

[Cheesy McGee]

FPG (Formerly Perfect Guy): "what time? I have a friend stopping by for a while and wouldn't want u to feel ignored."Me: "That's OK. I just had dinner at bin 36 and thought maybe I'd stop by since I was right here."FPG: "Please, not the drama queen act. I dont think i can handle a breakdown." [Krista Note: ]FPG: "I would love to see u, but if honesty and reality isnt something your [sic] into, i'll pass."Me: "I hope you're not serious about that ####."FPG: "Let's talk another day."Me: "I've a better idea...let's not."FPG: "Perfect!"FPG (five minutes later): "For a Lawyer, u really are sensitive...What's the best day for me to buy u dinner next week?"I haven't responded. WTF?

He didn't realize it was you. Thought it was an ex that just can't let him go (or his mom).

 

[Woz]

This actually just occurred to me...I wonder if he was mixing me up with someone else? Not the whole time, but in that series of messages? Ahhh, but then the "you're too sensitive for a lawyer" part wouldn't make sense, unless he was trying to cover.ETA: Perhaps he's just insane.

This is what I was wondering. It sounded like he got his wires crossed. But it may just be the wires in his brain...

Yeah, what's weird to me is that the reason I deemed him Perfect Guy was because he just seems so solid - balanced and together and all that. So much for my ability to read people (though my friend Lisa thought exactly the same thing and was really pushing me to get together with him). Oh well. My dinner Sunday night was also with a "date", though it was more like an obligation because I'd met the guy months ago and kept putting him off. Unbelievably boring. Back to www.nodating.com for me.

Or back to dating cooler younger guys...

 

[Woz]

Could someone in here let me know if the marital issue 15-pager is worth reading? Looks like something I'd normally like, but dedicating myself to 15 pages seems like a lot at this point. TIA.

MITYH actually has only posted a half dozen times in there...it's mostly speculation, commentary, and some shtick...arguments over what might have happened, debate over what he should do next, and shots from the peanut gallery...typical FFA stuff...I got wrapped up in it, read like mad until I finally caught up, just as it ran out of steam...MITYH claims round two at home will be tonight, should be more to read then...

Poor OP had reasonable suspicion, but not more than that, that his wife may have fooled around with a buddy. Happened amongst booze and friends. Wife doesn't remember what happened. The FFA now has the poor guy basically thinking his wife was this dude's sex slave for about 15 minutes and he's about to break down.

 

[krista4]

This actually just occurred to me...I wonder if he was mixing me up with someone else? Not the whole time, but in that series of messages? Ahhh, but then the "you're too sensitive for a lawyer" part wouldn't make sense, unless he was trying to cover.ETA: Perhaps he's just insane.

This is what I was wondering. It sounded like he got his wires crossed. But it may just be the wires in his brain...

Yeah, what's weird to me is that the reason I deemed him Perfect Guy was because he just seems so solid - balanced and together and all that. So much for my ability to read people (though my friend Lisa thought exactly the same thing and was really pushing me to get together with him). Oh well. My dinner Sunday night was also with a "date", though it was more like an obligation because I'd met the guy months ago and kept putting him off. Unbelievably boring. Back to www.nodating.com for me.

Or back to dating cooler younger guys...

You have cool friends? Sorry, Woz, you know it had to be done.

 

[Woz]

This actually just occurred to me...I wonder if he was mixing me up with someone else? Not the whole time, but in that series of messages? Ahhh, but then the "you're too sensitive for a lawyer" part wouldn't make sense, unless he was trying to cover.ETA: Perhaps he's just insane.

This is what I was wondering. It sounded like he got his wires crossed. But it may just be the wires in his brain...

Yeah, what's weird to me is that the reason I deemed him Perfect Guy was because he just seems so solid - balanced and together and all that. So much for my ability to read people (though my friend Lisa thought exactly the same thing and was really pushing me to get together with him). Oh well. My dinner Sunday night was also with a "date", though it was more like an obligation because I'd met the guy months ago and kept putting him off. Unbelievably boring. Back to www.nodating.com for me.

Or back to dating cooler younger guys...

You have cool friends? Sorry, Woz, you know it had to be done.

Ok, I'll stop flirting with you.

 

[krista4]

Could someone in here let me know if the marital issue 15-pager is worth reading? Looks like something I'd normally like, but dedicating myself to 15 pages seems like a lot at this point. TIA.

MITYH actually has only posted a half dozen times in there...it's mostly speculation, commentary, and some shtick...arguments over what might have happened, debate over what he should do next, and shots from the peanut gallery...typical FFA stuff...I got wrapped up in it, read like mad until I finally caught up, just as it ran out of steam...MITYH claims round two at home will be tonight, should be more to read then...

Poor OP had reasonable suspicion, but not more than that, that his wife may have fooled around with a buddy. Happened amongst booze and friends. Wife doesn't remember what happened. The FFA now has the poor guy basically thinking his wife was this dude's sex slave for about 15 minutes and he's about to break down.

Yeah, I just got about two pages into it; it's pretty painful. I don't understand the whole "she's lying about not remembering" part. If she was drinking that much, I'm sure she doesn't remember!So, to bring this back to iDating (sorry for getting it off track)...when you guys take out your iDates, your goal is to get them so drunk they don't remember anything.

 

[krista4]

This actually just occurred to me...I wonder if he was mixing me up with someone else? Not the whole time, but in that series of messages? Ahhh, but then the "you're too sensitive for a lawyer" part wouldn't make sense, unless he was trying to cover.ETA: Perhaps he's just insane.

This is what I was wondering. It sounded like he got his wires crossed. But it may just be the wires in his brain...

Yeah, what's weird to me is that the reason I deemed him Perfect Guy was because he just seems so solid - balanced and together and all that. So much for my ability to read people (though my friend Lisa thought exactly the same thing and was really pushing me to get together with him). Oh well. My dinner Sunday night was also with a "date", though it was more like an obligation because I'd met the guy months ago and kept putting him off. Unbelievably boring. Back to www.nodating.com for me.

Or back to dating cooler younger guys...

You have cool friends? Sorry, Woz, you know it had to be done.

Ok, I'll stop flirting with you.

Well, I guess that means I'll go back to work now.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Alright, so an update...while at my new job (yay!).

I'm canceling on the blonde tomorrow. This is going to upset Wozzy, but I need a day to set up my apartment, and I don't think anything is going to happen long-term with this girl, and going all the way to Milwaukee for a third date is signaling something I'm just not ready for. So, I'm just going to have to say I have to work (partially true, I do have stuff to get done), and apologize and cancel. Tried to call her earlier today, got static, so I unfortunately have to do this by text since she works until 11.

There's a girl about 45 minutes away, the seemingly really cool girl, that I'm going out with this weekend. Need to e-mail/call her tonight.

Other than that, the half-Spanish girl I went out with for that one drink, and thought I didn't bring any game on contacted me. We'll go out again next week.

I'm obviously falling behind already because of work. It's going to be 12 hour days, so dating in general is going to be a bit difficult during the week.

 

[mhrutkowski]

Ok, this isn't really a date but I want to get an honest take on this.

A friend who I'm attracted to invited me over for the 4th. Other people will be there obviously. I live kinda far from her place so I told her I can't stay out until the wee hours of the morning because I have to work the next day. She said I should sleep over.

This made me think I had an opportunity to hook up. Then a few e-mails were passed and she was talking about my friends and said something like 'if anyone wants to crash they can'. This makes me think that she wasn't targeting me at all.

A little context to this friendship. I asked her out a few years ago and she wasn't 'bout it. Immediately after then, I avoided her because I knew I was in the friend zone. Ever since then, she's always asking me to hang out. I've done it a few times at parties but never thought anything of it. Now that she asked me to sleep over, I'm wondering if I have a small chance. Do girls ever change their mind about the friend zone? I figure I'll just bring a toothbrush and feel it out.

 

[cubbyMIH]

Is there something up with the underground? I tried to post an update this am and it wouldn't let me do it. I don't have any new posts showing since 6/25.

 

[krista4]

Ok, this isn't really a date but I want to get an honest take on this.A friend who I'm attracted to invited me over for the 4th. Other people will be there obviously. I live kinda far from her place so I told her I can't stay out until the wee hours of the morning because I have to work the next day. She said I should sleep over.This made me think I had an opportunity to hook up. Then a few e-mails were passed and she was talking about my friends and said something like 'if anyone wants to crash they can'. This makes me think that she wasn't targeting me at all.A little context to this friendship. I asked her out a few years ago and she wasn't 'bout it. Immediately after then, I avoided her because I knew I was in the friend zone. Ever since then, she's always asking me to hang out. I've done it a few times at parties but never thought anything of it. Now that she asked me to sleep over, I'm wondering if I have a small chance. Do girls ever change their mind about the friend zone? I figure I'll just bring a toothbrush and feel it out.

Honest take...I think when girls put you in the friend zone, you're pretty much stuck there. There's no one I've ever put in that category and later changed my mind.This doesn't mean you have no chance - every woman is different. But I would definitely make the same offer to a guy I just considered a friend, and the fact that she's said others could stay, too, indicates she's just making a friendly offer and nothing more. If you had never broached the "more than friends" subject before, I'd say it was a sign, but here it probably isn't.I'd be VERY happy if it turns out that I'm wrong, though, and you should do it and just play it by ear!

 

[krista4]

Is there something up with the underground? I tried to post an update this am and it wouldn't let me do it. I don't have any new posts showing since 6/25.

Maybe it was shut down for inactivity. Really, though, I went in a couple of days ago, and there was nothing since June 25, so I don't know...

 

[Slinger]

Ok, this isn't really a date but I want to get an honest take on this.A friend who I'm attracted to invited me over for the 4th. Other people will be there obviously. I live kinda far from her place so I told her I can't stay out until the wee hours of the morning because I have to work the next day. She said I should sleep over.This made me think I had an opportunity to hook up. Then a few e-mails were passed and she was talking about my friends and said something like 'if anyone wants to crash they can'. This makes me think that she wasn't targeting me at all.A little context to this friendship. I asked her out a few years ago and she wasn't 'bout it. Immediately after then, I avoided her because I knew I was in the friend zone. Ever since then, she's always asking me to hang out. I've done it a few times at parties but never thought anything of it. Now that she asked me to sleep over, I'm wondering if I have a small chance. Do girls ever change their mind about the friend zone? I figure I'll just bring a toothbrush and feel it out.

You're in the friend zone until she sees you hook up with a woman hotter than her. I'd go to the party to have fun and perhaps do this, but it looks like you're sleeping on the couch next to some 59-year old guy named Larry.

 

[mhrutkowski]

Ok, this isn't really a date but I want to get an honest take on this.A friend who I'm attracted to invited me over for the 4th. Other people will be there obviously. I live kinda far from her place so I told her I can't stay out until the wee hours of the morning because I have to work the next day. She said I should sleep over.This made me think I had an opportunity to hook up. Then a few e-mails were passed and she was talking about my friends and said something like 'if anyone wants to crash they can'. This makes me think that she wasn't targeting me at all.A little context to this friendship. I asked her out a few years ago and she wasn't 'bout it. Immediately after then, I avoided her because I knew I was in the friend zone. Ever since then, she's always asking me to hang out. I've done it a few times at parties but never thought anything of it. Now that she asked me to sleep over, I'm wondering if I have a small chance. Do girls ever change their mind about the friend zone? I figure I'll just bring a toothbrush and feel it out.

Honest take...I think when girls put you in the friend zone, you're pretty much stuck there. There's no one I've ever put in that category and later changed my mind.This doesn't mean you have no chance - every woman is different. But I would definitely make the same offer to a guy I just considered a friend, and the fact that she's said others could stay, too, indicates she's just making a friendly offer and nothing more. If you had never broached the "more than friends" subject before, I'd say it was a sign, but here it probably isn't.I'd be VERY happy if it turns out that I'm wrong, though, and you should do it and just play it by ear!

Oh you're right - if I have a chance, it's slim. That being said, I'm still going to go out and have a good time. Hopefully there's some cute girls there. (I feel weird asking if she has any friends since I asked her out) I'm going to feel it out and possibly not sleep over unless she's giving me signs, I'd rather get home at a decent hour and sleep in my own bed if I'm not going to get any.

 

[Bankerguy]

I am with Krista here......you never ever want to be in the friends zone. Friends = death for your #### (richard).

Go to the party and have fun, be seen having fun and talk to lots of people. This is always a good start, but not a guarantee anything is going to go down either. It just increases your chances. My only other advice is to go not thinking about picking up or meeting someone. Girls have the ability to sense this a mile away. Focus on the 3 things I mentioned above. GL man!

Report back.

 

[krista4]

I'm wondering if this should change from the Official FFA iDating Thread to just the Official FFA Dating Thread, since so many people seem to be doing better with B&M rather than iDates? Just a thought...

 

[Slinger]

I'm wondering if this should change from the Official FFA iDating Thread to just the Official FFA Dating Thread, since so many people seem to be doing better with B&M rather than iDates? Just a thought...

No way. This is a great thread about iDating with a hint of B&M.

 

[krista4]

I'm wondering if this should change from the Official FFA iDating Thread to just the Official FFA Dating Thread, since so many people seem to be doing better with B&M rather than iDates? Just a thought...

No way. This is a great thread about iDating with a hint of B&M.

True; you're right. I just didn't want anyone to hesitate to share his stories because they're not an iDate. Some of the B&M ones are the best ones here.

 

[mhrutkowski]

I'm wondering if this should change from the Official FFA iDating Thread to just the Official FFA Dating Thread, since so many people seem to be doing better with B&M rather than iDates? Just a thought...

Sorry - I read Dating not iDating

 

[Keys Myaths]

I'm wondering if this should change from the Official FFA iDating Thread to just the Official FFA Dating Thread, since so many people seem to be doing better with B&M rather than iDates? Just a thought...

Sorry - I read Dating not iDating

Doesn't matter. Dating stories are always good.Sent the message, feel kind of bad, but oh well.

 

[krista4]

I'm wondering if this should change from the Official FFA iDating Thread to just the Official FFA Dating Thread, since so many people seem to be doing better with B&M rather than iDates? Just a thought...

Sorry - I read Dating not iDating

No, don't be sorry...that's why I suggested changing it. You and some others have had good stories and I didn't want people to think their stories weren't welcomed.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Ok, this isn't really a date but I want to get an honest take on this.A friend who I'm attracted to invited me over for the 4th. Other people will be there obviously. I live kinda far from her place so I told her I can't stay out until the wee hours of the morning because I have to work the next day. She said I should sleep over.This made me think I had an opportunity to hook up. Then a few e-mails were passed and she was talking about my friends and said something like 'if anyone wants to crash they can'. This makes me think that she wasn't targeting me at all.A little context to this friendship. I asked her out a few years ago and she wasn't 'bout it. Immediately after then, I avoided her because I knew I was in the friend zone. Ever since then, she's always asking me to hang out. I've done it a few times at parties but never thought anything of it. Now that she asked me to sleep over, I'm wondering if I have a small chance. Do girls ever change their mind about the friend zone? I figure I'll just bring a toothbrush and feel it out.

Honest take...I think when girls put you in the friend zone, you're pretty much stuck there. There's no one I've ever put in that category and later changed my mind.This doesn't mean you have no chance - every woman is different. But I would definitely make the same offer to a guy I just considered a friend, and the fact that she's said others could stay, too, indicates she's just making a friendly offer and nothing more. If you had never broached the "more than friends" subject before, I'd say it was a sign, but here it probably isn't.I'd be VERY happy if it turns out that I'm wrong, though, and you should do it and just play it by ear!

Krista, let me ask you something about this. I had a very close female friend tell me once that she would put guys that were interested in her on the friends-bench (provided that she really wanted to be friends with them) as sort of backups to the guys she was actually involved with/interested in. Like you, she never actually called them back into the game, but she had them as kind of a security blanket or a mild ego-stroke - it's nice to know someone is interested in you after all, even if you don't want to persue it. She wasn't faking the friendship, mind you; it just added something to it. She did mention that this was from the files of Things Women Should Never Tell Men and only her being a little tipsy led to her breaking Female Protocol. IIRC, this all came about because she was consoling my whiny ### over some woman or other who didn't want to "risk our friendship" by becoming romantic. She also mentioned that this was more common with younger women (20s) than those in their 30s & beyond (though both myself & the "I don't want to risk our friendship" woman were in our late 30s).Anyway, I know everybody's different. I've broached this subject several times over the years with other women & gotten a variety of responses, but enough that agreed with my friend to make me think that this type of thinking is fairly prevalent. I really don't think there's anything terribly wrong with this in most cases - it's mostly benign and there's no real damage done. But I do think it's important for guys to be able to recognize when this may be happening. The communication gap between men & women is wide enough when things are going well, to say nothing of it when one party has interest and the other doesn't.Thoughts?

 

[Early_10]

Women don't break the male friend into the boyfriend. It doesn't happen. We look at the friend completely different. There is no physical attraction. That is why we can tell them things we share with our girlfriends, because there is no chance of sex and having that stuff used againist us.

Even when we joke about hooking up or being f-buddies or fooling around, there is no physical attraction. Even if our heads point out what a great catch, it doesn't matter. Thats only the head and common sense talking. Our libido, lust and hearts are ruled by physical attraction.

Reminder - Physical attraction isn't just looks. Its our bodies responding to a man. For me its confidence, sense of humour, slightly cocky and able to comfortably talk about just about anything...including himself.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Women don't break the male friend into the boyfriend. It doesn't happen. We look at the friend completely different. There is no physical attraction. That is why we can tell them things we share with our girlfriends, because there is no chance of sex and having that stuff used againist us. Even when we joke about hooking up or being f-buddies or fooling around, there is no physical attraction. Even if our heads point out what a great catch, it doesn't matter. Thats only the head and common sense talking. Our libido, lust and hearts are ruled by physical attraction. Reminder - Physical attraction isn't just looks. Its our bodies responding to a man. For me its confidence, sense of humour, slightly cocky and able to comfortably talk about just about anything...including himself.

I think this is what's hard to many men to comprehend, because they ARE willing to break the female-thing-into-gf (or at the very least, the female-friend-into-hookup) & don't understand why women can't/won't do the same.One thing, though, about your "tell them things we share with our girlfriends" comment. I wonder if there's a bit of chicken-&-egg thing going on with that. I had a female friend who for years was just that. There came a time when other feelings started to come into play & I approached "something more" with her. Her response was that if she had just met me she would in a heartbeat, but couldn't because "you know everything about me - I'm too raw with you". So could part of the reason that guys never leave the friends-bench be not because there's no chance of physical attraction but because women won't allow/admit to any attraction after having opened themselves up "too much"? I realize this is kind of a circular argument, but does that make any sense?

 

[parasaurolophus]

Women don't break the male friend into the boyfriend. It doesn't happen. We look at the friend completely different. There is no physical attraction. That is why we can tell them things we share with our girlfriends, because there is no chance of sex and having that stuff used againist us. Even when we joke about hooking up or being f-buddies or fooling around, there is no physical attraction. Even if our heads point out what a great catch, it doesn't matter. Thats only the head and common sense talking. Our libido, lust and hearts are ruled by physical attraction. Reminder - Physical attraction isn't just looks. Its our bodies responding to a man. For me its confidence, sense of humour, slightly cocky and able to comfortably talk about just about anything...including himself.

i respectfully disagree.it has nothing to do with whether or not they are a male friend. It has to do with the reason that they are a male friend. If they are a male friend because the girl put them in that place because the guy at one point in time wanted to date her, but she didnt want him, well then you are right.However if she was seriously dating somebody else when they became friends, or if he was dating somebody else when they became friends, or if the reason that they are friends is because she liked him and he didnt like her at that time(or after that few drinks) then there is a very good chance secks or some sort of future relationship will happen.ps this is all really a hypothetical as guys and girls arent really friends.

 

[krista4]

Ok, this isn't really a date but I want to get an honest take on this.A friend who I'm attracted to invited me over for the 4th. Other people will be there obviously. I live kinda far from her place so I told her I can't stay out until the wee hours of the morning because I have to work the next day. She said I should sleep over.This made me think I had an opportunity to hook up. Then a few e-mails were passed and she was talking about my friends and said something like 'if anyone wants to crash they can'. This makes me think that she wasn't targeting me at all.A little context to this friendship. I asked her out a few years ago and she wasn't 'bout it. Immediately after then, I avoided her because I knew I was in the friend zone. Ever since then, she's always asking me to hang out. I've done it a few times at parties but never thought anything of it. Now that she asked me to sleep over, I'm wondering if I have a small chance. Do girls ever change their mind about the friend zone? I figure I'll just bring a toothbrush and feel it out.

Honest take...I think when girls put you in the friend zone, you're pretty much stuck there. There's no one I've ever put in that category and later changed my mind.This doesn't mean you have no chance - every woman is different. But I would definitely make the same offer to a guy I just considered a friend, and the fact that she's said others could stay, too, indicates she's just making a friendly offer and nothing more. If you had never broached the "more than friends" subject before, I'd say it was a sign, but here it probably isn't.I'd be VERY happy if it turns out that I'm wrong, though, and you should do it and just play it by ear!

Krista, let me ask you something about this. I had a very close female friend tell me once that she would put guys that were interested in her on the friends-bench (provided that she really wanted to be friends with them) as sort of backups to the guys she was actually involved with/interested in. Like you, she never actually called them back into the game, but she had them as kind of a security blanket or a mild ego-stroke - it's nice to know someone is interested in you after all, even if you don't want to persue it. She wasn't faking the friendship, mind you; it just added something to it. She did mention that this was from the files of Things Women Should Never Tell Men and only her being a little tipsy led to her breaking Female Protocol. IIRC, this all came about because she was consoling my whiny ### over some woman or other who didn't want to "risk our friendship" by becoming romantic. She also mentioned that this was more common with younger women (20s) than those in their 30s & beyond (though both myself & the "I don't want to risk our friendship" woman were in our late 30s).Anyway, I know everybody's different. I've broached this subject several times over the years with other women & gotten a variety of responses, but enough that agreed with my friend to make me think that this type of thinking is fairly prevalent. I really don't think there's anything terribly wrong with this in most cases - it's mostly benign and there's no real damage done. But I do think it's important for guys to be able to recognize when this may be happening. The communication gap between men & women is wide enough when things are going well, to say nothing of it when one party has interest and the other doesn't.Thoughts?

Interesting. I'm trying to think of people I know that I feel have done this, but I'm not coming up with any. As you said, everybody's different, but I'd be surprised if this were prevalent. For me, it's exactly the opposite - when I am friends with a guy I know is interested in something more, it's exceedingly uncomfortable for me. I'd much rather he weren't interested and could just look at me as a friend. It's no fun to me to feel like someone is disappointed and hoping that our relationship will change into something that it will never be. I think your friend is far from speaking from all or even a majority of women, and there's no "Female Protocol" here that I'm aware of. But then again, I can't speak for all or a majority of women either.

 

[krista4]

Women don't break the male friend into the boyfriend. It doesn't happen. We look at the friend completely different. There is no physical attraction. That is why we can tell them things we share with our girlfriends, because there is no chance of sex and having that stuff used againist us. Even when we joke about hooking up or being f-buddies or fooling around, there is no physical attraction. Even if our heads point out what a great catch, it doesn't matter. Thats only the head and common sense talking. Our libido, lust and hearts are ruled by physical attraction. Reminder - Physical attraction isn't just looks. Its our bodies responding to a man. For me its confidence, sense of humour, slightly cocky and able to comfortably talk about just about anything...including himself.

I think this is what's hard to many men to comprehend, because they ARE willing to break the female-thing-into-gf (or at the very least, the female-friend-into-hookup) & don't understand why women can't/won't do the same.One thing, though, about your "tell them things we share with our girlfriends" comment. I wonder if there's a bit of chicken-&-egg thing going on with that. I had a female friend who for years was just that. There came a time when other feelings started to come into play & I approached "something more" with her. Her response was that if she had just met me she would in a heartbeat, but couldn't because "you know everything about me - I'm too raw with you". So could part of the reason that guys never leave the friends-bench be not because there's no chance of physical attraction but because women won't allow/admit to any attraction after having opened themselves up "too much"? I realize this is kind of a circular argument, but does that make any sense?

This feeds into what I was saying above, in that everybody's different. I don't share exactly the same perspective on this as Early, though I do agree with some of what she's said.The "tell them things we share with our girlfriends" comment is one area where I differ. I don't differentiate among men who are friends and men whom I would date in terms of what I'll tell them - they get exactly the same information (which in my case is relatively little overall). I'm not worried about telling a guy I'm dating something and "having it used against me" - that would just never occur to me. Uruk, in your case, I think the girl was just not interested and was giving you an excuse so as not to hurt your feelings. If the girl had wanted to be with you, the fact that you knew everything about her would have been a positive to her, not a negative. I don't believe for a second that a girl wouldn't be with someone she otherwise wanted to be with because she had opened up too much to him - quite the opposite, actually. As for hburgers's thoughts, I think it's just a misread of what Early and I are saying (though I should let her speak for herself). I wonder when I wrote my initial response whether I should specify that this only applied if a girl had actually considered whether a guy was datable, but I was hoping to keep my answer shorter than usual. But in so doing, I might not have been clear...of course if there had not been an opportunity to date in the past, you are not in a lifelong "friends" category. The situation posed initially was one in which there was a possibility of dating (i.e. both parties were single), the guy broached the idea, and the girl wanted to be just friends. In that situation, the chances of the guy breaking out of the friend category are always going to be infinitesimal. In situations where the "should we date" question has never been addressed, the answer will clearly be quite different. If a girl is dating someone seriously at the time she becomes friends with a guy, and later breaks up with that person, the "friend" still has a shot to be something more. I've done it myself - was friends with someone for years but I always had a boyfriend, and once that broke up, I started seeing my friend differently and ended up dating him for over a year. But I never made the initial "friend or more" decision because it just wasn't a possibility at the time.

 

[Kraft...]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand"

 

[krista4]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand"

OK, I'll be the here...what do girls get out of these friendships that guys don't? Why are they winning and guys are losing, by having an additional friend?

 

[Kraft...]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand"

OK, I'll be the here...what do girls get out of these friendships that guys don't? Why are they winning and guys are losing, by having an additional friend?

Because weather you want to believe it or not all a woman's guy friends(except the gay ones and most married ones) want the relationship to be physical on some level. The guy himself may not even realize it but deep down in a mans primal soul that's what he wants. Woman on the other hand don't, made clear in Early's post above. A woman can string a guy along as a friend, boosting her ego, mock flirting, knowing that she isn't interested in the physical part. But all along she's giving the guy just enough of a taste to keep him hungry and wanting. That's not a good situation for a guy to be in IMO.

 

[krista4]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand"

OK, I'll be the here...what do girls get out of these friendships that guys don't? Why are they winning and guys are losing, by having an additional friend?

Because weather you want to believe it or not all a woman's guy friends(except the gay ones and most married ones) want the relationship to be physical on some level. The guy himself may not even realize it but deep down in a mans primal soul that's what he wants. Woman on the other hand don't, made clear in Early's post above. A woman can string a guy along as a friend, boosting her ego, mock flirting, knowing that she isn't interested in the physical part. But all along she's giving the guy just enough of a taste to keep him hungry and wanting. That's not a good situation for a guy to be in IMO.

Wow, so much bitterness today. I'm sorry that you have not had good friendships with women. But your experience is not the same as every guy's, just as mine is not the same as every woman's. And truly, your viewpoint sounds to me awfully 1950s-ish. I realize there was a time when women and men looked at each other solely as potential mates, whether long-term or as a one-night-stand, but I think those days are long gone. God knows I don't need a guy to "string along as a friend" to boost my ego or mock flirt or any such thing. But it does so happen that a lot of my interests - such as football and other sports, as well as most of the music I listen to - are interests that I share with a lot more guys than women. Also so happens that by virtue of my work, I meet a whole lot more guys than I do women, and as a result over the course of my life I'd count more guys as good friends than women. Maybe my guy friends want to sleep with me. As long as we both know that it's not going to happen, which we clearly do, and they obviously value having me as a friend anyway, how is that bad for either of us? We're both getting what we want, which is another fun companion for doing the things we like to do.Again, sounds like you've had an experience or two where a woman led you to think there was more - "used" you perhaps. If that's the case, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that your experience is the norm or the only way women and men interact. You're painting a picture of guys as helpless beings, or women as manipulative beings, when such broad generalizations seem completely unreasonable in 2007. End of

 

[Kraft...]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand"

OK, I'll be the here...what do girls get out of these friendships that guys don't? Why are they winning and guys are losing, by having an additional friend?

Because weather you want to believe it or not all a woman's guy friends(except the gay ones and most married ones) want the relationship to be physical on some level. The guy himself may not even realize it but deep down in a mans primal soul that's what he wants. Woman on the other hand don't, made clear in Early's post above. A woman can string a guy along as a friend, boosting her ego, mock flirting, knowing that she isn't interested in the physical part. But all along she's giving the guy just enough of a taste to keep him hungry and wanting. That's not a good situation for a guy to be in IMO.

Wow, so much bitterness today. I'm sorry that you have not had good friendships with women. But your experience is not the same as every guy's, just as mine is not the same as every woman's. And truly, your viewpoint sounds to me awfully 1950s-ish. I realize there was a time when women and men looked at each other solely as potential mates, whether long-term or as a one-night-stand, but I think those days are long gone. God knows I don't need a guy to "string along as a friend" to boost my ego or mock flirt or any such thing. But it does so happen that a lot of my interests - such as football and other sports, as well as most of the music I listen to - are interests that I share with a lot more guys than women. Also so happens that by virtue of my work, I meet a whole lot more guys than I do women, and as a result over the course of my life I'd count more guys as good friends than women. Maybe my guy friends want to sleep with me. As long as we both know that it's not going to happen, which we clearly do, and they obviously value having me as a friend anyway, how is that bad for either of us? We're both getting what we want, which is another fun companion for doing the things we like to do.Again, sounds like you've had an experience or two where a woman led you to think there was more - "used" you perhaps. If that's the case, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that your experience is the norm or the only way women and men interact. You're painting a picture of guys as helpless beings, or women as manipulative beings, when such broad generalizations seem completely unreasonable in 2007. End of

Nope, I've never been used or hurt by a woman. I've been with my wife since I was 17. I've seen these kinds of relationships from the outside though and IMO it's not a good situation for the guy. I think one thing and you think another(being a woman I'd expect you to think that way), I think I'm right you think you're right, some will agree with me some with you that's what makes the world go round This philosophy is more aimed at a single guy. I'm married and I have great relationships with women. All the females in my groups inner circle like me a great deal to the point where they even confide in me on occasion. I just think it's a no win for a single guy.

 

[Woz]

Alright, so an update...while at my new job (yay!).I'm canceling on the blonde tomorrow. This is going to upset Wozzy, but I need a day to set up my apartment, and I don't think anything is going to happen long-term with this girl, and going all the way to Milwaukee for a third date is signaling something I'm just not ready for. So, I'm just going to have to say I have to work (partially true, I do have stuff to get done), and apologize and cancel. Tried to call her earlier today, got static, so I unfortunately have to do this by text since she works until 11.There's a girl about 45 minutes away, the seemingly really cool girl, that I'm going out with this weekend. Need to e-mail/call her tonight.Other than that, the half-Spanish girl I went out with for that one drink, and thought I didn't bring any game on contacted me. We'll go out again next week.I'm obviously falling behind already because of work. It's going to be 12 hour days, so dating in general is going to be a bit difficult during the week.

I'm not disappointed, I just thought in general your reservations about the chick were somewhat trivial and she was your only option to go to summerfest - obviously you can't go by yourself. So, I thought it was worth a shot. You wouldn't have considered it so strongly if she was that bad. Good luck with work by the way. Looks like the one chick I showed you is coming up for the weekend next weekend.

 

[Woz]

Women don't break the male friend into the boyfriend. It doesn't happen. We look at the friend completely different. There is no physical attraction. That is why we can tell them things we share with our girlfriends, because there is no chance of sex and having that stuff used againist us. Even when we joke about hooking up or being f-buddies or fooling around, there is no physical attraction. Even if our heads point out what a great catch, it doesn't matter. Thats only the head and common sense talking. Our libido, lust and hearts are ruled by physical attraction. Reminder - Physical attraction isn't just looks. Its our bodies responding to a man. For me its confidence, sense of humour, slightly cocky and able to comfortably talk about just about anything...including himself.

Wow, I agree with the Ice Queen here. I've been "that guy" enough back in high school and the start of college to know that when these chicks open up they immediately eliminate the thought of sex with the guy. It's got very little to do with physicalities and such, just that women seem to separate emotional relationships and sexual ones - at least at a younger age. I've come to learn that if you want a girl to never want your johnson, be her dr. phil.

 

[Slinger]

It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO.

The Ladder Theory

 

[Early_10]

Women don't break the male friend into the boyfriend. It doesn't happen. We look at the friend completely different. There is no physical attraction. That is why we can tell them things we share with our girlfriends, because there is no chance of sex and having that stuff used againist us. Even when we joke about hooking up or being f-buddies or fooling around, there is no physical attraction. Even if our heads point out what a great catch, it doesn't matter. Thats only the head and common sense talking. Our libido, lust and hearts are ruled by physical attraction. Reminder - Physical attraction isn't just looks. Its our bodies responding to a man. For me its confidence, sense of humour, slightly cocky and able to comfortably talk about just about anything...including himself.

I think this is what's hard to many men to comprehend, because they ARE willing to break the female-thing-into-gf (or at the very least, the female-friend-into-hookup) & don't understand why women can't/won't do the same.One thing, though, about your "tell them things we share with our girlfriends" comment. I wonder if there's a bit of chicken-&-egg thing going on with that. I had a female friend who for years was just that. There came a time when other feelings started to come into play & I approached "something more" with her. Her response was that if she had just met me she would in a heartbeat, but couldn't because "you know everything about me - I'm too raw with you". So could part of the reason that guys never leave the friends-bench be not because there's no chance of physical attraction but because women won't allow/admit to any attraction after having opened themselves up "too much"? I realize this is kind of a circular argument, but does that make any sense?

I like your chicken/egg analogy and its kind of hard to answer. I've been married forever but even now immediately differentiate my male friends. There are those I can be completely myself with because there is no physical attraction. I can carry on and not worry about offending them and I can open up about personal things, flaws, etc. Then there are the men that immediatly make me smile. Its difficult to put into words but I know the difference right away. These are the men I'm attracted to and while I can open up and share other things with them, I'm always conscious of keeping myself in the best light in their eyes. Does that make sense? At least in my experience, this division is made very early on.

 

[Early_10]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand"

I can't even comment on that. It sounds completely ridiculous to me. So you don't garner any benefit from the friendship with those wives/gfs of your guy friends? You can't just have a game of pool with a girl and be buddies? Wow. I go bowling in a mixed league, watch the hockey game with the guys, go dancing....suddenly every man still has in the back of his mind that the best he could get out of this is sex?I think you're giving some great men a bad name. And wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion.

 

[krista4]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand" :X

I can't even comment on that. It sounds completely ridiculous to me. So you don't garner any benefit from the friendship with those wives/gfs of your guy friends? You can't just have a game of pool with a girl and be buddies? Wow. I go bowling in a mixed league, watch the hockey game with the guys, go dancing....suddenly every man still has in the back of his mind that the best he could get out of this is sex?I think you're giving some great men a bad name. And wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion.

Apparently, you're only saying that because you're a woman.

 

[krista4]

It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO.

The Ladder Theory

Yeah, I got to page one where it said that women's immediate analysis of a guy is based 50% on "money/power". Preposterous. Just another "theory" put together by a guy wondering why he doesn't score, blaming it all on what he senses he doesn't have. :X

 

[code]

It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO.

The Ladder Theory

Yeah, I got to page one where it said that women's immediate analysis of a guy is based 50% on "money/power". Preposterous. Just another "theory" put together by a guy wondering why he doesn't score, blaming it all on what he senses he doesn't have. :X

Who sounds bitter now?

 

[krista4]

It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO.

The Ladder Theory

Yeah, I got to page one where it said that women's immediate analysis of a guy is based 50% on "money/power". Preposterous. Just another "theory" put together by a guy wondering why he doesn't score, blaming it all on what he senses he doesn't have.

Who sounds bitter now?

I re-read that just to make sure I didn't miss anything...nope, no bitterness in there at all. Unless perhaps you were talking about the guy who wrote "The Ladder Theory"... All right, I'll step out of this debate now to scurry off to a party that promises "enough fireworks to kill everybody".

 

[Slinger]

It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO.

The Ladder Theory

Yeah, I got to page one where it said that women's immediate analysis of a guy is based 50% on "money/power". Preposterous. Just another "theory" put together by a guy wondering why he doesn't score, blaming it all on what he senses he doesn't have.

With all due respect, women are the worst people to get advice from about women.

 

[Early_10]

I still don't get the whole guys with girls who are their friends shtick. I don't see anything positive a guy can get out of that sort of relationship. It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO. The only serious female friends I've had are wives/girlfriends of my guy friends. In a guy/girl friend relationship the girl has all the "hand"

I can't even comment on that. It sounds completely ridiculous to me. So you don't garner any benefit from the friendship with those wives/gfs of your guy friends? You can't just have a game of pool with a girl and be buddies? Wow. I go bowling in a mixed league, watch the hockey game with the guys, go dancing....suddenly every man still has in the back of his mind that the best he could get out of this is sex?I think you're giving some great men a bad name. And wholeheartedly disagree with your conclusion.

Apparently, you're only saying that because you're a woman.

Who hangs out most days with a bunch of guys who see no purpose to me other than a place to stick their ****. Yeah, theres a world view for ya.

 

[Keys Myaths]

Alright, so an update...while at my new job (yay!).I'm canceling on the blonde tomorrow. This is going to upset Wozzy, but I need a day to set up my apartment, and I don't think anything is going to happen long-term with this girl, and going all the way to Milwaukee for a third date is signaling something I'm just not ready for. So, I'm just going to have to say I have to work (partially true, I do have stuff to get done), and apologize and cancel. Tried to call her earlier today, got static, so I unfortunately have to do this by text since she works until 11.There's a girl about 45 minutes away, the seemingly really cool girl, that I'm going out with this weekend. Need to e-mail/call her tonight.Other than that, the half-Spanish girl I went out with for that one drink, and thought I didn't bring any game on contacted me. We'll go out again next week.I'm obviously falling behind already because of work. It's going to be 12 hour days, so dating in general is going to be a bit difficult during the week.

I'm not disappointed, I just thought in general your reservations about the chick were somewhat trivial and she was your only option to go to summerfest - obviously you can't go by yourself. So, I thought it was worth a shot. You wouldn't have considered it so strongly if she was that bad. Good luck with work by the way. Looks like the one chick I showed you is coming up for the weekend next weekend.

Hey, good for you, dude. She seemed pretty cool, actually.Well, actually, I *am* going to Summerfest, except with the girl I'm excited about. I said #### it, since it was the last day, and invited her. She got excited, so that's solid. If I end up not liking her, hell, I have Summerfest!We went from the dating site to e-mail, and she has an unusual last name, so hell, I Googled her to try and see if she was another crazy. She's not only a pretty good journalist, she's a published author.By the way, on this whole guys and girls friend thing...my best friend is a female. I don't have sexual interest in her. Yes, it can happen. I think the problem is, a lot of guys will only talk to a girl if they want to #### them. I'm like that now, but not back as a kid, apparently.

 

[krista4]

It's a win situation for the girl and a lose situation for the guy IMO.

The Ladder Theory

Yeah, I got to page one where it said that women's immediate analysis of a guy is based 50% on "money/power". Preposterous. Just another "theory" put together by a guy wondering why he doesn't score, blaming it all on what he senses he doesn't have.

With all due respect, women are the worst people to get advice from about women.

They might not be the best, but I have to think they're at least equal to a misogynistic website and a site full of fantasy football players. Could we at least agree that, rather than generalizing as to who is or is not the best to give advice, the best people to listen to are those who, regardless of gender or anything else, seem well-reasoned, together, and intuitive? Cuz if we can't agree on that, then everyone here had might as well do nothing but abide by GordonGekko posts.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Uruk, in your case, I think the girl was just not interested and was giving you an excuse so as not to hurt your feelings. If the girl had wanted to be with you, the fact that you knew everything about her would have been a positive to her, not a negative. I don't believe for a second that a girl wouldn't be with someone she otherwise wanted to be with because she had opened up too much to him - quite the opposite, actually.

I understand why you'd think that, but you'll have to trust me on this one that I know she was being 100% honest with me. I do agree, though, that in many cases women use this as an easier out than "I'm just not interested".