***Official*** Green Bay Packers Offseason Thread, v. 2014 (1 Viewer)

[smackdaddies]

(sigh...) If they were winning superbowls (or even being competitive in the playoffs) I'd get excited that they are bringing all these same Packer players back. But all this tells me is that they are trying to retain mediocrity.

Is TT completely incapable of looking outside the box anymore?

Who would you rather have them sign as a backup QB?

Flynn is obviously a system QB that can fill in for a game or two, never mind the fact that I can eat an entire sandwich between his release and when the ball gets to its target... I figured Green Bay realized that if they're going to field an offensive line that struggles protecting the most valuable player in the league, then they'd better have a backup QB that can carry the load for the long haul when Rodgers goes down.

Not a guy "who can win 50% of his games".

Well, your certainly an idiot

Name a back up qb that is available, at the league minimum, that is better

If all your going to do is troll, and not offer an alternative that is clearly better, well, your name fits

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

(sigh...) If they were winning superbowls (or even being competitive in the playoffs) I'd get excited that they are bringing all these same Packer players back. But all this tells me is that they are trying to retain mediocrity.

Is TT completely incapable of looking outside the box anymore?

Who would you rather have them sign as a backup QB?

Flynn is obviously a system QB that can fill in for a game or two, never mind the fact that I can eat an entire sandwich between his release and when the ball gets to its target... I figured Green Bay realized that if they're going to field an offensive line that struggles protecting the most valuable player in the league, then they'd better have a backup QB that can carry the load for the long haul when Rodgers goes down.

Not a guy "who can win 50% of his games".

Well, your certainly an idiot

Name a back up qb that is available, at the league minimum, that is better

If all your going to do is troll, and not offer an alternative that is clearly better, well, your name fits

First of all, if you're going to insult me, please use proper grammar. It's "You're". Kind of ironic since you're accusing me of trolling, but let's move on...

As for your question, I didn't say anything about getting a backup at "league minimum". If there's one thing Green Bay learned last year, it's that you can't half-### backup QB anymore. If you're not going to spend money along the offensive line, then you're going to need to spend it at backup QB because your starting QB will likely be injured more than he should.

Green Bay has consistently been at or near the bottom of the league for sacks allowed for at least the last 5 years. Now, you can blame the system, or Rodgers holding the ball-- whatever. The point is that he gets hit... a lot. And I'm frankly amazed he has been as tough as he's been under that punishment. But the music stopped in 2013 and they figured out they needed someone competent back there at 2 from now on.

You're not going to find that for league minimum. And if there isn't a guy in FA, you trade. But TT doesn't do that... At FA, I would have brought guys like Campbell, Jackson... even Sanchez in for tryouts. Is Flynn on that list, too? Sure he is, and maybe he would have been better-- but the point is, TT didn't seem to want to find out.

Listen, Flynn's a good guy, and he's worth something in Green Bay apparently, even though he's flopped everywhere else. He's a fan favorite here, I get that. But he's "meh". I'd rather draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round as a long-term backup QB because he may very well be more capable than Flynn is now, which frankly wouldn't be that difficult. We need a guy who can win when Rodgers goes down again, not a guy who can merely tow the line.

 

[Phenomena]

I appreciate how hard you try, but you lack critical thinking skills and perspective, FavreAndAwayAnIdiot.

The GM's goal is to have a backup QB that can "tow-the-line" when QB1 goes down, not to have a guy that can come in and win games with the same frequency of Rodgers. That's foolishness. If a backup QB was actually that good, he'd be getting $20M/year from another team. Rodgers himself has only won 65% of his games, which is pretty good in this day and age of parity. Montana, Aikman, Brady all have winning rates around that range. Having a very cheap backup QB in Flynn win 50% of his games is phenomenal. How many other backup QBs in the entire league could have come in and won against the Falcons and Cowboys last year? A handful, at most. And none of those came at a ridiculously cheap veteran minimum ($750,000).

Over the last two seasons, Ted has played the backup QB situation masterfully. He let Flynn walk for a huge contract and got a compensation pick for free. That netted Josh Boyd, who is a very cheap d-line fill-in, and has potential to be a regular starter. FOR FREE. Then, after Flynn flamed out in starting roles, only had to pay him the veteran minimum to come in and win half the games when Rodgers was injured! How can you play it better than that??? You guys are insane. You're finding fault where there is none and are being completely unreasonable with what can be done in the salary cap age.

 

[Touchdown There]

I like the move with Flynn too, but also think others have a point. Green Bay could have really used a few of the defensive free agents this year. I worry that the coaches/GM think they have the D on the right track, while some of us do not see much talent.

What drives me nuts watching the D is when they are blown off the LOS. It was the whole d-line with no push whatsoever. I want to see the LOS move back towards the QB, not in the LBs faces.

 

[Phenomena]

I like the move with Flynn too, but also think others have a point. Green Bay could have really used a few of the defensive free agents this year. I worry that the coaches/GM think they have the D on the right track, while some of us do not see much talent.

What drives me nuts watching the D is when they are blown off the LOS. It was the whole d-line with no push whatsoever. I want to see the LOS move back towards the QB, not in the LBs faces.

The Packers added two significant defensive free agents this year for a total cap hit of $9.5M, which adds up to a total of 7% of the 2014 cap. How much are you expecting them to spend? That is a huge investment for two guys that weren't wanted by the last team. If they went out and got someone like Houston they would not have the cap space to re-sign both Cobb and Nelson. And who says he'd be worth it? How many of those monstrous free agent contracts ever live up to their worth? I would be shocked if more than 10 out of 50 big free-agent contracts in the last 15 years were worth the dollar investment.

I have a feeling that 80% of the complaints about teams on this board wouldn't exist if people fully understood the nuances of the salary cap system.

I have said it many times in this thread, but I'll say it again. The Packers defense was playing very well early in the season. They were ranked 6th overall prior to week 6, and that was without Hayward (our best cover corner). No defense is going to succeed when injuries take out every impact player. You're expecting way too much.

 

[tdmills]

I like the move with Flynn too, but also think others have a point. Green Bay could have really used a few of the defensive free agents this year. I worry that the coaches/GM think they have the D on the right track, while some of us do not see much talent.

What drives me nuts watching the D is when they are blown off the LOS. It was the whole d-line with no push whatsoever. I want to see the LOS move back towards the QB, not in the LBs faces.

The Packers added two significant defensive free agents this year for a total cap hit of $9.5M, which adds up to a total of 7% of the 2014 cap. How much are you expecting them to spend? That is a huge investment for two guys that weren't wanted by the last team. If they went out and got someone like Houston they would not have the cap space to re-sign both Cobb and Nelson. And who says he'd be worth it? How many of those monstrous free agent contracts ever live up to their worth? I would be shocked if more than 20 out of 100 in the last 15 years were worth the dollar investment.

I have a feeling that 80% of the complaints about teams on this board wouldn't exist if people fully understood the nuances of the salary cap system.

I have said it many times in this thread, but I'll say it again. The Packers defense was playing very well early in the season. They were ranked 6th overall prior to week 6, and that was without Hayward (our best cover corner). No defense is going to succeed when injuries take out every impact player. You're expecting way too much.

1) you contradict yourself. You are glad GB added 2 significant pieces in free agency... yet are critical of other teams signing free agents. Peppers is 34...production is diminished and injuries are more frequent with older players (see Charles woodson). So you would still take peppers for 1 year at 8.5 vs Houston(since u mentioned him) for 2 years at 15 million? Even though Houston is 7.5 years younger

2) packers were 6th in what defensive category?

 

[Phenomena]

I like the move with Flynn too, but also think others have a point. Green Bay could have really used a few of the defensive free agents this year. I worry that the coaches/GM think they have the D on the right track, while some of us do not see much talent.

What drives me nuts watching the D is when they are blown off the LOS. It was the whole d-line with no push whatsoever. I want to see the LOS move back towards the QB, not in the LBs faces.

The Packers added two significant defensive free agents this year for a total cap hit of $9.5M, which adds up to a total of 7% of the 2014 cap. How much are you expecting them to spend? That is a huge investment for two guys that weren't wanted by the last team. If they went out and got someone like Houston they would not have the cap space to re-sign both Cobb and Nelson. And who says he'd be worth it? How many of those monstrous free agent contracts ever live up to their worth? I would be shocked if more than 20 out of 100 in the last 15 years were worth the dollar investment.

I have a feeling that 80% of the complaints about teams on this board wouldn't exist if people fully understood the nuances of the salary cap system.

I have said it many times in this thread, but I'll say it again. The Packers defense was playing very well early in the season. They were ranked 6th overall prior to week 6, and that was without Hayward (our best cover corner). No defense is going to succeed when injuries take out every impact player. You're expecting way too much.

1) you contradict yourself. You are glad GB added 2 significant pieces in free agency... yet are critical of other teams signing free agents. Peppers is 34...production is diminished and injuries are more frequent with older players (see Charles woodson). So you would still take peppers for 1 year at 8.5 vs Houston(since u mentioned him) for 2 years at 15 million? Even though Houston is 7.5 years younger

2) packers were 6th in what defensive category?

Not once did I mention I was glad they spent $9.5M in free agency. When I say significant, I mean a significant amount of money. That said, it's not a bad signing. Neither addition counts against compensatory selections and the Packers easily walk away after one season if Peppers is done.

Houston's signing was not egregious for his historical performance and will fit in nicely with Chicago. For the same price, Green Bay was not and should not have been interested. Why? At that price it's hard to make him as effective as he could be, since you don't have the personnel to match his strengths as a 4-3 DE. You can always fit great players into any scheme but why pay top dollar for talent that doesn't mix well with your current personnel? If you have a 4-3 DE as the best player available in the draft, you pick him and make it work. But that's because you're getting him super cheap. There's no point in a team with 3-4 personnel paying top dollar for a 4-3 DE. Do you get it?

Packers were 5th in run defense, 8th in pass defense through 6 games. And they played some good teams during that stretch. That was without Hayward, but prior to the other (major) defensive injuries. The defense is just fine. They just need to stop getting unlucky with injuries.

 

[The Kerminator]

(sigh...) If they were winning superbowls (or even being competitive in the playoffs) I'd get excited that they are bringing all these same Packer players back. But all this tells me is that they are trying to retain mediocrity.

Is TT completely incapable of looking outside the box anymore?

Who would you rather have them sign as a backup QB?

Flynn is obviously a system QB that can fill in for a game or two, never mind the fact that I can eat an entire sandwich between his release and when the ball gets to its target... I figured Green Bay realized that if they're going to field an offensive line that struggles protecting the most valuable player in the league, then they'd better have a backup QB that can carry the load for the long haul when Rodgers goes down.

Not a guy "who can win 50% of his games".

Well, your certainly an idiot

Name a back up qb that is available, at the league minimum, that is better

If all your going to do is troll, and not offer an alternative that is clearly better, well, your name fits

You're not going to find that for league minimum. And if there isn't a guy in FA, you trade. But TT doesn't do that... At FA, I would have brought guys like Campbell, Jackson... even Sanchez in for tryouts. Is Flynn on that list, too? Sure he is, and maybe he would have been better-- but the point is, TT didn't seem to want to find out.

Listen, Flynn's a good guy, and he's worth something in Green Bay apparently, even though he's flopped everywhere else. He's a fan favorite here, I get that. But he's "meh". I'd rather draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round as a long-term backup QB because he may very well be more capable than Flynn is now, which frankly wouldn't be that difficult. We need a guy who can win when Rodgers goes down again, not a guy who can merely tow the line.

Do you think it's possible that just maybe the Packers have a scouting department that could maybe scout these possible backup QBs and offer their opinion on whether they are worth bringing in or not for a tryout? If such a department would exist maybe they could offer an opinion as to whether any of these players would fill the backup QB position better than Flynn. I know it's revolutionary but that sure would seem like a good idea.

So you want a guy that can win when Rodgers goes down again and you think a 2nd - 4th round draft pick has a better chance than Flynn? What makes you think they could do better than just tow the line? Maybe they like Scott Tolzein as a future backup QB. Give him a year in McCarthy's off-season QB school and a full training camp with pre-season games he may develop into something.

 

[tdmills]

I like the move with Flynn too, but also think others have a point. Green Bay could have really used a few of the defensive free agents this year. I worry that the coaches/GM think they have the D on the right track, while some of us do not see much talent.

What drives me nuts watching the D is when they are blown off the LOS. It was the whole d-line with no push whatsoever. I want to see the LOS move back towards the QB, not in the LBs faces.

The Packers added two significant defensive free agents this year for a total cap hit of $9.5M, which adds up to a total of 7% of the 2014 cap. How much are you expecting them to spend? That is a huge investment for two guys that weren't wanted by the last team. If they went out and got someone like Houston they would not have the cap space to re-sign both Cobb and Nelson. And who says he'd be worth it? How many of those monstrous free agent contracts ever live up to their worth? I would be shocked if more than 20 out of 100 in the last 15 years were worth the dollar investment.

I have a feeling that 80% of the complaints about teams on this board wouldn't exist if people fully understood the nuances of the salary cap system.

I have said it many times in this thread, but I'll say it again. The Packers defense was playing very well early in the season. They were ranked 6th overall prior to week 6, and that was without Hayward (our best cover corner). No defense is going to succeed when injuries take out every impact player. You're expecting way too much.

1) you contradict yourself. You are glad GB added 2 significant pieces in free agency... yet are critical of other teams signing free agents. Peppers is 34...production is diminished and injuries are more frequent with older players (see Charles woodson). So you would still take peppers for 1 year at 8.5 vs Houston(since u mentioned him) for 2 years at 15 million? Even though Houston is 7.5 years younger

2) packers were 6th in what defensive category?

Houston's signing was not egregious for his historical performance and will fit in nicely with Chicago. For the same price, Green Bay was not and should not have been interested. Why? At that price it's hard to make him as effective as he could be, since you don't have the personnel to match his strengths as a 4-3 DE. You can always fit great players into any scheme but why pay top dollar for talent that doesn't mix well with your current personnel? If you have a 4-3 DE as the best player available in the draft, you pick him and make it work. But that's because you're getting him super cheap. There's no point in a team with 3-4 personnel paying top dollar for a 4-3 DE. Do you get it?

Packers were 5th in run defense, 8th in pass defense through 6 games. And they played some good teams during that stretch. That was without Hayward, but prior to the other (major) defensive injuries. The defense is just fine. They just need to stop getting unlucky with injuries.

Lamarr Houston is 6-3 300 and can play 4-3 DE/3 tech DT or 3-4 DE. Peppers is 6-7 287. Both have played both schemes and Houston is much stouter vs the run. So he was a great fit for GB.

The Washington Redskins/Cleveland Browns with Weeden at QB/Ravens trainwreck are hardly juggernauts. Love the cherry picking of through only 6 games though...if it makes you feel better about your defense go right ahead. Through 5 games they were still allowing 293.5 yards through the air....hardly anything to write home about.

 

[sho nuff]

First of all, if you're going to insult me, please use proper grammar. It's "You're". Kind of ironic since you're accusing me of trolling, but let's move on...

As for your question, I didn't say anything about getting a backup at "league minimum". If there's one thing Green Bay learned last year, it's that you can't half-### backup QB anymore. If you're not going to spend money along the offensive line, then you're going to need to spend it at backup QB because your starting QB will likely be injured more than he should.

Green Bay has consistently been at or near the bottom of the league for sacks allowed for at least the last 5 years. Now, you can blame the system, or Rodgers holding the ball-- whatever. The point is that he gets hit... a lot. And I'm frankly amazed he has been as tough as he's been under that punishment. But the music stopped in 2013 and they figured out they needed someone competent back there at 2 from now on.

You're not going to find that for league minimum. And if there isn't a guy in FA, you trade. But TT doesn't do that... At FA, I would have brought guys like Campbell, Jackson... even Sanchez in for tryouts. Is Flynn on that list, too? Sure he is, and maybe he would have been better-- but the point is, TT didn't seem to want to find out.

Listen, Flynn's a good guy, and he's worth something in Green Bay apparently, even though he's flopped everywhere else. He's a fan favorite here, I get that. But he's "meh". I'd rather draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round as a long-term backup QB because he may very well be more capable than Flynn is now, which frankly wouldn't be that difficult. We need a guy who can win when Rodgers goes down again, not a guy who can merely tow the line.

Well, GB pretty much has to pay about League Minimum for a backup QB. I don't think that means they are half assing it by doing that. Its just when you have that much tied up in your starter (and also in your OLB) you have to have places like backup QB that are at a very low price.

They do spend money on the OL...oh wait, because they don't sign the guys you want or keep the last one means they don't spend money or time there?

Who did you think they should have signed? EDS? I liked the kid and though he did enough to come back. Also thought he got more than he was probably worth (same with Wells)

1st round picks (yup, they have used them)...high contracts to those that have performed well (yes, Lang and Sitton would agree there).

If they are going with Tretter, they may actually be moving towards going a bit bigger up front than in the past (think he is 6-4 to Wells and EDS being about 6-2)

Matt Flynn > Jason Campbell. He fits the system much better. Campbell is trash.

Jackson is interesting but not likely getting him at a low enough price with what other things GB has to fit under the cap.

Sanchez...hah!!! Do you want to be taken seriously when you complain so much but bring up Jason Campbell and Sanchez as some sort of options?

2nd to 4th round QB...meh. Not GB's style (not just TT...even going back to Wolf) More likely to see a 6th-7th rounder or undrafted guy to develop.

If Tolzien impresses in camp Flynn may not even be around if they take another QB.

But this year looks likely to see a rookie on the PS, and GB use 3 roster spots on QBS (which will hurt them in depth elsewhere)

 

[FavreAndAwayAnIdiot]

(sigh...) If they were winning superbowls (or even being competitive in the playoffs) I'd get excited that they are bringing all these same Packer players back. But all this tells me is that they are trying to retain mediocrity.

Is TT completely incapable of looking outside the box anymore?

Who would you rather have them sign as a backup QB?

Flynn is obviously a system QB that can fill in for a game or two, never mind the fact that I can eat an entire sandwich between his release and when the ball gets to its target... I figured Green Bay realized that if they're going to field an offensive line that struggles protecting the most valuable player in the league, then they'd better have a backup QB that can carry the load for the long haul when Rodgers goes down.

Not a guy "who can win 50% of his games".

Well, your certainly an idiot

Name a back up qb that is available, at the league minimum, that is better

If all your going to do is troll, and not offer an alternative that is clearly better, well, your name fits

You're not going to find that for league minimum. And if there isn't a guy in FA, you trade. But TT doesn't do that... At FA, I would have brought guys like Campbell, Jackson... even Sanchez in for tryouts. Is Flynn on that list, too? Sure he is, and maybe he would have been better-- but the point is, TT didn't seem to want to find out.

Listen, Flynn's a good guy, and he's worth something in Green Bay apparently, even though he's flopped everywhere else. He's a fan favorite here, I get that. But he's "meh". I'd rather draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round as a long-term backup QB because he may very well be more capable than Flynn is now, which frankly wouldn't be that difficult. We need a guy who can win when Rodgers goes down again, not a guy who can merely tow the line.

So you want a guy that can win when Rodgers goes down again and you think a 2nd - 4th round draft pick has a better chance than Flynn? What makes you think they could do better than just tow the line? Maybe they like Scott Tolzein as a future backup QB. Give him a year in McCarthy's off-season QB school and a full training camp with pre-season games he may develop into something.

I didn't say a rookie would be better, but if this trust you put in TT's scouting department is so validated, then there's a good chance he could be better. This is a great year to find a long-term backup QB in the middle rounds of the draft as teams will have a solid shot at getting a quality player at mid-round price who you can then groom as a backup, thus decreasing the bust potential a scoach. And if he happens to turn into the next Brunell/Hasselback, you can trade him year 4 or 5 of his rookie deal. Taking shots at 7th round passers well... often you get what you pay for, as we found out.

But without turning this thread into a QB draft profile, I'd venture to guess there will be a dozen guys available more physically gifted than Flynn in the middle rounds. Flynn brings experience, and above-average accuracy, but the more weapons you take away (See: James Jones/competent TE) the more his physical inability to make tough throws will become apparent (See: Seattle/Oakland).

You get a mid-round rookie QB in here who has something to prove and you put him in this system behind arguably the best QB in the league, the outlook will be far less grim if we lose Rodgers again.

 

[smackdaddies]

First of all, if you're going to insult me, please use proper grammar. It's "You're". Kind of ironic since you're accusing me of trolling, but let's move on...

As for your question, I didn't say anything about getting a backup at "league minimum". If there's one thing Green Bay learned last year, it's that you can't half-### backup QB anymore. If you're not going to spend money along the offensive line, then you're going to need to spend it at backup QB because your starting QB will likely be injured more than he should.

Green Bay has consistently been at or near the bottom of the league for sacks allowed for at least the last 5 years. Now, you can blame the system, or Rodgers holding the ball-- whatever. The point is that he gets hit... a lot. And I'm frankly amazed he has been as tough as he's been under that punishment. But the music stopped in 2013 and they figured out they needed someone competent back there at 2 from now on.

You're not going to find that for league minimum. And if there isn't a guy in FA, you trade. But TT doesn't do that... At FA, I would have brought guys like Campbell, Jackson... even Sanchez in for tryouts. Is Flynn on that list, too? Sure he is, and maybe he would have been better-- but the point is, TT didn't seem to want to find out.

Listen, Flynn's a good guy, and he's worth something in Green Bay apparently, even though he's flopped everywhere else. He's a fan favorite here, I get that. But he's "meh". I'd rather draft a guy in the 2nd-4th round as a long-term backup QB because he may very well be more capable than Flynn is now, which frankly wouldn't be that difficult. We need a guy who can win when Rodgers goes down again, not a guy who can merely tow the line.

Sanchez...hah!!! Do you want to be taken seriously when you complain so much but bring up Jason Campbell and Sanchez as some sort of options?

no, he does not want to be taken seriously. He is a troll

 

[SWC]

the pack is back baby take that to the bank bromigos

 

[sho nuff]

Any chance Deone Buchannon is there in the 2nd?

Have heard some rumblings that this is one the Packers like after I had heard earlier rumbles that they were not as sure about Clinton-Dix or Pryor.

As I have said in another thread...I would think Pryor is less of a fit. He is the hitter that is not as much of a rangy coverage guy. They need the coverage back there more IMO. I think Burnett could be the guy playing up closer to the line and adding Pryor, while nice, wouldn't be adding quite what they need. They would still have the need for another safety that way IMO.

Buchannon can still hit...has a bit more speed than the other two...the "coverage limitations" I have read on him dealt with covering a slot receiver in man coverage. Something I wouldn't see him doing back there playing center field.

Ward is obviously the other one...better coverage guy...just think Buchannon has the size advantage and a nose for the ball.

 

[werdnoynek]

Looks like we'll kick off the 2014/15 NFL season at Seattle. Another year with a great test to start. Looking forward to it.

 

[smackdaddies]

So - who will they draft in R1 - place your bets (so to speak)

Offense or Defense?

Position

Player

I say:

Defense

Nose Tackle

Nix

My other option would be ILB, Mosley

 

[Phenomena]

If Mosley, Ebron, or Nix is there, that's the pick, in order. I could see them taking Kelvin Benjamin as a sleeper pick, too. If all of those are gone they'll trade out to a QB-needy team.

 

[sho nuff]

So - who will they draft in R1 - place your bets (so to speak)

Offense or Defense?

Position

Player

I say:

Defense

Nose Tackle

Nix

My other option would be ILB, Mosley

Was going to post something like this...more of a who is the top 5 you would like to see at 21 (that have an actual chance of being there).

1. Clinton-Dix...eventhough I love Deone Buccanon in the 2nd...Ha-ha showed me a lot at Bama.

2. Moseley...though, his health still worries me. Just a guy they can plug and play right away to help solidify the interior.

3. Darqueze Denard...may even put him above Mosley. Sure, they have some other corners...but Tramon won't be around too much longer in the league...and this would be a big lift to the secondary (and if they could move Hyde to S even) Just like to have premium positions be our first round picks. I like Fuller too...but the injury history there scares me.

4. Ebron...Ive said a lot about value, about TT not taking a TE...but this guy is just a weapon...its a luxury for sure in the first...but what a luxury to have and its never bad to keep surrounding Rodgers with more talent.

5. Honestly...trade down is looking like the right move. Put this at 5 because Id like the excitement of having someone actually drafted tomorrow. But a trade down out of the first in such a deep draft opens up some nice things for that first pick. WR even...safety at the top of the 2nd like Buccanon or Ward. Plus pick up something like a 3rd rounder if possible (or a high 4th) giving them more chances to hit something at WR, TE, C, LB and so on.

As for Nix...just not seeing them using a high pick on a DL this year. Not with bringing Guion in, Boyd, resigning Raji even for just one year, Daniels, Worthy, Jones. There will be some picks there...but not seeing it in the first unless they drop back in the first.

 

[sho nuff]

Conversely...who do you not want in the 1st?

-Timmy Jernigan...from watching him have to come out many times in that title game being winded...to the failed drug test (at least I think he was one of them). Just something about him screams bust.

-Any TE not named Ebron

-Pryor...big hitter is nice...just don't like what he brings in coverage.

-Shazier...think that fast 40 time will boost him and I don't think he is pick 21 value at all.

-A guard or center

 

[smackdaddies]

5. Honestly...trade down is looking like the right move. Put this at 5 because Id like the excitement of having someone actually drafted tomorrow. But a trade down out of the first in such a deep draft opens up some nice things for that first pick. WR even...safety at the top of the 2nd like Buccanon or Ward. Plus pick up something like a 3rd rounder if possible (or a high 4th) giving them more chances to hit something at WR, TE, C, LB and so on.

I like that thinking - this is a pretty deep draft at WR/Safety/Dline, and ok at LB. For example, I think Southward in the 4th round is about as good as anyone at Safety in terms of upside - if they could trade down once or even twice to lock up multiple 2nd or 3rd round picks, that could be a win

 

[sho nuff]

5. Honestly...trade down is looking like the right move. Put this at 5 because Id like the excitement of having someone actually drafted tomorrow. But a trade down out of the first in such a deep draft opens up some nice things for that first pick. WR even...safety at the top of the 2nd like Buccanon or Ward. Plus pick up something like a 3rd rounder if possible (or a high 4th) giving them more chances to hit something at WR, TE, C, LB and so on.

I like that thinking - this is a pretty deep draft at WR/Safety/Dline, and ok at LB. For example, I think Southward in the 4th round is about as good as anyone at Safety in terms of upside - if they could trade down once or even twice to lock up multiple 2nd or 3rd round picks, that could be a win

And part of that adding weapons, I could see (and would love) a trade into the top of the 2nd and pull another Jordy like move (Jordan Matthews maybe???)

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

So - who will they draft in R1 - place your bets (so to speak)

Offense or Defense?

Position

Player

I say:

Defense

Nose Tackle

Nix

My other option would be ILB, Mosley

I'm thinking a little different direction. After reading about the safeties today, I don't think they'll go that way until rd 2 or rd 3. I think a small trade back is very likely.

IMO they are going to prioritize playmakers a bit more too. They know it takes a couple years to develop WRs and TEs, and they don't have starter quality at TE right now. IMO ASJ is a likely pick. They really need a red zone difference maker, and he was built for it. Also like Kyle Fuller at CB. Tramon Williams is getting a little older, and is in the last year of his deal. Groom this kid for a year to replace him, and keep Hayward in the slot. So many quality receivers in RD2 are gonna be hard to pass up as well. Davante Adams, Jordan Matthews, Allen Robinson seem like they'd be good guys to groom for a year.

 

[sho nuff]

So - who will they draft in R1 - place your bets (so to speak)

Offense or Defense?

Position

Player

I say:

Defense

Nose Tackle

Nix

My other option would be ILB, Mosley

I'm thinking a little different direction. After reading about the safeties today, I don't think they'll go that way until rd 2 or rd 3. I think a small trade back is very likely.

IMO they are going to prioritize playmakers a bit more too. They know it takes a couple years to develop WRs and TEs, and they don't have starter quality at TE right now. IMO ASJ is a likely pick. They really need a red zone difference maker, and he was built for it. Also like Kyle Fuller at CB. Tramon Williams is getting a little older, and is in the last year of his deal. Groom this kid for a year to replace him, and keep Hayward in the slot. So many quality receivers in RD2 are gonna be hard to pass up as well. Davante Adams, Jordan Matthews, Allen Robinson seem like they'd be good guys to groom for a year.

Agree on playmakers...I just don't know if ASJ is that. They need a TE who can run the seam...not just some supposed red zone threat.

Also like Fuller as I said...but the injury concern with him is there. I can see a corner in round one being pretty likely if they stick at 21.

 

[Touchdown There]

I would really like to see the Pack land Aaron Donald.

 

[werdnoynek]

I'd love to see them go MLB with their first pick. It's been a huge need for too long... I think we can find the big guys we need up front later in the draft, along with WR & TE. Hawk is horrible, has always been horrible, and always will be horrible.

At MLB, I think Ryan Shazier is a sleeper. He's been a fast riser in the draft and played all over for OSU. Dunne had a nice article yesterday ont his subject here:

Linebacker's speed could be a plus
By Tyler Dunne of the Journal Sentinel

Green Bay — At his pro day, Ryan Shazier ran an unofficial 4.36 seconds in the 40-yard dash. The time would have topped all linebackers at the NFL scouting combine by a stride. Maybe two. And his coach couldn't care less.

Luke Fickell knows what the Ohio State linebacker did on Saturdays.

"There were two guys on our team — every Saturday — who were the fastest two guys," said Fickell, Ohio State's defensive coordinator. "Ryan Shazier was one of them. (Quarterback) Braxton Miller was the other. I don't know what they ran in the 40-yard dash. I don't care what they ran. They were the fastest guys on the field."

In Green Bay, Colin Kaepernick remains Nemesis No. 1 in the war room. General manager Ted Thompson is exactly where he was this time last year, trying to figure out how to stop a quarterback who sent his team into the off-season. Kaepernick has burned the Packers for 1,203 total yards and eight touchdowns in San Francisco wins.

One reason may be a need for speed in the middle of the 3-4 defense. Shazier is a fast, athletic, gap-shooting linebacker who might slip to Green Bay at No. 21 overall.

An intimidating safety? Another pass rusher? A playmaking defensive back?

There's a good chance decisions Thursday through Saturday are made with Kaepernick on the mind. Through this lens, Shazier would be a candidate.

"It's just a little bit of that 'it' factor," said Fickell, who has coached the Buckeyes linebackers since 2004. "He's got it. The No. 1 thing for linebackers, just natural instincts and flying to the football, that's a God-given ability. And that's what Ryan has. That instinct."

Saturday-to-Saturday playmaking is what separates Shazier from Buckeyes linebackers past, Fickell says. The last two seasons, Shazier totaled 401/2 tackles for loss, 15 sacks, 16 pass breakups and seven forced fumbles. At 237 pounds, he is leaner. Shazier moved around, too. From the middle, Alabama's C.J. Mosley may be the more instinctual player.

Former NFL cornerback Corey Chavous, who now scouts for "Draft Nasty," graded Shazier ahead of Mosley. Chavous says Shazier has a "wide-receiver-like" lower body yet is more explosive than Mosley.

"His ability to chase things down — his short-area burst as a blitzer in the A and B gaps," Chavous said, "those things along with his ability to cover tight ends, those things are positives."

Chasing down Kaepernick remains the issue in Green Bay. His damage has gone beyond the read option, beyond his right arm. Too often, he broke Green Bay's contain. Despite a spirited effort in January, the dam eventually broke on one 42-yard run and another back-breaking, third-and-8 conversion.

In Miller, Shazier did face one of the nation's top collegiate dual threats on a daily basis. In practice, Fickell often rushed three or four players and stuck Shazier on Miller as a spy, as "the cheetah" in their defense.

"And he couldn't get away from him," Fickell said. "One day Braxton finally said, 'Could you quit putting that guy on me.'...That was a battle we knew we could win."

At least in these practices, Fickell let defensive linemen rush upfield without needing to worry about contain on the edges because of Shazier. He could corral mobile quarterbacks solo. The likes of A.J. Hawk, James Laurinaitis and Bobby Carpenter, Fickell said, were the "full-fledged linebacker guys." Shazier was more of "an explosive playmaking guy."

Within the defense, Shazier played on the weak side, in the middle and rushed. With added bulk, Fickell believes Shazier could be a 3-4 inside linebacker.

"He's just scratching the surface on his abilities," Fickell said. "If he continues to grow, he could play there. That's the thing with Ryan. He could play in any type of system. He could move around. He's not some little, frail speed guy. He can hit you. He can do all the different stuff. He'll be a 240-guy no problem."

Chavous does not see Shazier's instincts at Mosley's level. He believes Shazier is a run-and-chase linebacker in the Alec Ogletree mold.

A year ago, of course, the Packers took defensive end Datone Jones five slots ahead of Ogletree, the St. Louis Rams linebacker who had 117 tackles and six forced fumbles.

Possibly this year Thompson has another shot at taking an athletic linebacker.

Fickell says the game doesn't confuse Shazier, that he doesn't slow down at the line.

"That's where he's special," Fickell said. "Ryan transitions it to the football field with speed and quickness and power and decision-making. He's phenomenal."

 

[sho nuff]

I would really like to see the Pack land Aaron Donald.

Probably going much higher...and despite playing all over the line in a college 3-4...seems more of a 4-3 fit in the NFL.

 

[Sabertooth]

The defense sucks. Every player should have to fight for his job.

 

[The Kerminator]

5. Honestly...trade down is looking like the right move. Put this at 5 because Id like the excitement of having someone actually drafted tomorrow. But a trade down out of the first in such a deep draft opens up some nice things for that first pick. WR even...safety at the top of the 2nd like Buccanon or Ward. Plus pick up something like a 3rd rounder if possible (or a high 4th) giving them more chances to hit something at WR, TE, C, LB and so on.

I like that thinking - this is a pretty deep draft at WR/Safety/Dline, and ok at LB. For example, I think Southward in the 4th round is about as good as anyone at Safety in terms of upside - if they could trade down once or even twice to lock up multiple 2nd or 3rd round picks, that could be a win

I was thinking the same thing. This draft is tailor made for TT. I think he trades down into later in the first round or early second. Can't see him dropping down too far. I think just about any position is in play except RB and QB for his first pick.

 

[smackdaddies]

JS online link to all their draft articles - if you need some time to kill

They do have some pretty good stuff

 

[smackdaddies]

Conversely...who do you not want in the 1st?

Anyone on the offense side of the ball. If one of the top 2 O tackles fell, ok, but other than that, just say no.

OLB

DE

For me it has to be a NT, ILB, db or safety

 

[Touchdown There]

I would really like to see the Pack land Aaron Donald.

Probably going much higher...and despite playing all over the line in a college 3-4...seems more of a 4-3 fit in the NFL.

I agree, he is probably going higher. Just wishful thinking.

 

[werdnoynek]

5. Honestly...trade down is looking like the right move. Put this at 5 because Id like the excitement of having someone actually drafted tomorrow. But a trade down out of the first in such a deep draft opens up some nice things for that first pick. WR even...safety at the top of the 2nd like Buccanon or Ward. Plus pick up something like a 3rd rounder if possible (or a high 4th) giving them more chances to hit something at WR, TE, C, LB and so on.

I like that thinking - this is a pretty deep draft at WR/Safety/Dline, and ok at LB. For example, I think Southward in the 4th round is about as good as anyone at Safety in terms of upside - if they could trade down once or even twice to lock up multiple 2nd or 3rd round picks, that could be a win

I was thinking the same thing. This draft is tailor made for TT. I think he trades down into later in the first round or early second. Can't see him dropping down too far. I think just about any position is in play except RB and QB for his first pick.

I think if Shazier and Mosely are both gone when our clock starts we'll move down. I think the depth at LB is somewhat lacking vs the other positions of need for us.

 

[Pipes]

Conversely...who do you not want in the 1st?

Anyone on the offense side of the ball. If one of the top 2 O tackles fell, ok, but other than that, just say no.

OLB

DE

For me it has to be a NT, ILB, db or safety

I wouldn't hate an Ebron pick but that's maybe the only offensive guy I'd consider. I hope for Mosely or one of the DB's. I'm not sold on Shazier just because I'm not sure he has the size or is physical enough to handle the middle...he seems more like a 4-3 weakside LB who can use his speed to chase plays down. If Mosely, Denard, Gilbert, Dix and Pryor are all off the board then I'd like to see them trade down as there are a number of 2nd round caliber players like Buchanon and Moncrief that I really like.

 

[smackdaddies]

Hopefully the joke is not on the packers.

 

[Chicago Hooligan]

Hix in stix luv Dix pick

 

[sho nuff]

Was #1 on my top 5 above...love it. Ball hawk and a play maker in the secondary.

 

[sho nuff]

Especially with Ward and Buccanon going in the first.

 

[Sabertooth]

Quite a run on defense after Green Bay picked. Glad we got him.

 

[werdnoynek]

Pumped about the pick. Now for MLB, DT, WR and TE.

 

[⚡DEADHEAD⚡]

Like.

 

[Sabertooth]

Pumped about the pick. Now for MLB, DT, WR and TE.

Yeah I agree those are big needs but I like Ted's BPA philosophy. If we get two of those 4 I'd be pretty happy but this teams needs to add football players.

 

[sho nuff]

Pumped about the pick. Now for MLB, DT, WR and TE.

Yeah I agree those are big needs but I like Ted's BPA philosophy. If we get two of those 4 I'd be pretty happy but this teams needs to add football players.

Agreed...Safety was big...I don't know if we see much on the DL early in draft unless someone big falls (just due to roster numbers of who they already have).

So Im with you on they just need players...play makers at any position. Have the luxury right now to just go BPA and not reach for a need.

 

[smackdaddies]

I am thinking r2

Center (if that Colorado kid is avail) - he also can play guard

MLB

TE - if Jenkins is avail. I think R2 is fair value for him. Otherwise it is a pass on TE

R3

Another safety?

Possibly MLB (Borland?)

WR

I don't think there is much NT avail that is not worth waiting for by the time we get to their 2nd pick

Not sure what DB value there is also, although also a need

 

[smackdaddies]

anyone think TT is going for a QB? Perhaps that Pittsburgh qb Savage? What Round? 4?

 

[beef]

HHCD was an awesome fall in your lap pick. TT gets great BPA value and MM gets a solid football player. Total win.

 

[werdnoynek]

anyone think TT is going for a QB? Perhaps that Pittsburgh qb Savage? What Round? 4?

I could see this for sure.

I know he normally not a draft for need guy, but I think they're going to make a point in looking at WR, TE, and QB.

I agree with the sentiment that we're looking for football players... on defense.

 

[sho nuff]

anyone think TT is going for a QB? Perhaps that Pittsburgh qb Savage? What Round? 4?

I think he is typically interested there.

Just not sure he wants to use a 4 on a QB though right now....it would signal the end to Tolzien who they still talk like they like him a lot to keep developing him.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree but I don't care if it's offense or defense. Fact is this team isn't good enough to beat Seattle. Tight End is obviously a big hole. But I agree if the defensive players rate, take them. I'd like them to add about 25 more linebackers in hope you can actually find one who can answer the bell about 19 times.

 

[sho nuff]

Was interesting they left Nix out there (leading to my point about their numbers on the DL right now).

Adams has a nice vertical and was darn productive.

His strengths read just like what TT typically looks for.

 

[Phenomena]

Was interesting they left Nix out there (leading to my point about their numbers on the DL right now).

Adams has a nice vertical and was darn productive.

His strengths read just like what TT typically looks for.

I can't believe they left Nix on the board.

Rodgers will be elite with any group of receivers in the league. Nix had to be one of the top players on their board. I would have rather seen them take Nix. His measurables compare to Raji (but with a better motor) and we'd have gotten him at 53rd overall!

Maybe he has medical flags. It's really odd to see a guy touted as a first-round talent drop 30+ projected spots. That usually only happens with medical issues. Motor definitely wasn't his issue.