***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (4 Viewers)

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

I'm reading a book by CNN blogger Michael Wolraich about the origins of the current conservative movement, including the NRA extremism, and I had no idea how much Charlton Heston contributed to the current paranoia. Here is part of a speech he gave on behalf of the NRA in 1997, the year he took over its presidency:

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on our coats?

Rank and file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens...Heaven help the God-fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle-class, Protestant, or- even worse- Evangelical Christian, Midwest, or Southern, or- even worse- rural, apparently straight, or -even worse- admittedly heterosexual, gun-owning, or-even worse- NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff, or- even worse- male working stiff, because not only don't you count, you're a downright obstacle to social progress.

But mainstream America is depending on you- counting on you- to draw your sword and fight for them. Fight for them against the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it's a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other, and all the New-Age apologists for juvenile crime, who see roving gangs as a means of youthful expression, sex as a means of adolescent merchandising, violence as a form of entertainment for impressionable minds, and gun bans as a means to lord-knows-what.

Given this type of speech by the biggest hero of the gun movement, is it any wonder that so many of the gun nuts are so paranoid and delusional?

I like guns.

I don't like Charlton Heston.

I dislike you even more.

This speech was made nearly 30 years ago.

The source I have says 1997. Not that it matters to my point. I'm sorry you dislike me. It's not mutual.

I read 1987. I need sleep. Charlton Heston was a colossal tool.

Fine, I don't really dislike you either, I just get annoyed with you sometimes.

Have a happy Easter, goodnight.

 

[timschochet]

I'm reading a book by CNN blogger Michael Wolraich about the origins of the current conservative movement, including the NRA extremism, and I had no idea how much Charlton Heston contributed to the current paranoia. Here is part of a speech he gave on behalf of the NRA in 1997, the year he took over its presidency:

I remember when European Jews feared to admit their faith. The Nazis forced them to wear six-pointed stars sewn on their chests as identity badges. It worked. So what color star will they pin on our coats?

Rank and file Americans wake up every morning, increasingly bewildered and confused at why their views make them lesser citizens...Heaven help the God-fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle-class, Protestant, or- even worse- Evangelical Christian, Midwest, or Southern, or- even worse- rural, apparently straight, or -even worse- admittedly heterosexual, gun-owning, or-even worse- NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff, or- even worse- male working stiff, because not only don't you count, you're a downright obstacle to social progress.

But mainstream America is depending on you- counting on you- to draw your sword and fight for them. Fight for them against the fringe propaganda of the homosexual coalition, the feminists who preach that it's a divine duty for women to hate men, blacks who raise a militant fist with one hand while they seek preference with the other, and all the New-Age apologists for juvenile crime, who see roving gangs as a means of youthful expression, sex as a means of adolescent merchandising, violence as a form of entertainment for impressionable minds, and gun bans as a means to lord-knows-what.

Given this type of speech by the biggest hero of the gun movement, is it any wonder that so many of the gun nuts are so paranoid and delusional?

I like guns.

I don't like Charlton Heston.

I dislike you even more.

This speech was made nearly 30 years ago.

The source I have says 1997. Not that it matters to my point. I'm sorry you dislike me. It's not mutual.

I read 1987. I need sleep. Charlton Heston was a colossal tool.

Fine, I don't really dislike you either, I just get annoyed with you sometimes.

Have a happy Easter, goodnight.

Happy Easter!

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't know why I waste my time arguing with you guys. You love anecdotes, but reason and logic appear to be completely meaningless to you on this subject. That's OK. Whether its in a few months or a few years, universal background checks ARE coming. Followed by, hopefully, a national registration of all firearms.

Yes... and they will be 100% effective just like that time they made drugs and alcohol illegal. Oh..wait.

Yes, because in your crazed paranoid deluded mind, having background checks for firearms is analogous to making them illegal.

So rather than making drugs and alcohol illegal, they should have started a national drug and alcohol registration?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I don't know why I waste my time arguing with you guys. You love anecdotes, but reason and logic appear to be completely meaningless to you on this subject. That's OK. Whether its in a few months or a few years, universal background checks ARE coming. Followed by, hopefully, a national registration of all firearms.

Yes... and they will be 100% effective just like that time they made drugs and alcohol illegal. Oh..wait.

Yes, because in your crazed paranoid deluded mind, having background checks for firearms is analogous to making them illegal.

So rather than making drugs and alcohol illegal, they should have started background checks for drugs and alcohol?

 

[timschochet]

I don't know why I waste my time arguing with you guys. You love anecdotes, but reason and logic appear to be completely meaningless to you on this subject. That's OK. Whether its in a few months or a few years, universal background checks ARE coming. Followed by, hopefully, a national registration of all firearms.

Yes... and they will be 100% effective just like that time they made drugs and alcohol illegal. Oh..wait.

Yes, because in your crazed paranoid deluded mind, having background checks for firearms is analogous to making them illegal.

So rather than making drugs and alcohol illegal, they should have started a national drug and alcohol registration?

Asking this absurd question once is more than enough. You chose to ask it twice.

 

[mad sweeney]

I don't know why I waste my time arguing with you guys. You love anecdotes, but reason and logic appear to be completely meaningless to you on this subject. That's OK. Whether its in a few months or a few years, universal background checks ARE coming. Followed by, hopefully, a national registration of all firearms.

Yes... and they will be 100% effective just like that time they made drugs and alcohol illegal. Oh..wait.

Yes, because in your crazed paranoid deluded mind, having background checks for firearms is analogous to making them illegal.

So rather than making drugs and alcohol illegal, they should have started background checks for drugs and alcohol?

Just going to ignore it and hope it goes away? you had your chance to get rid of me. Now man up or go away.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Support expanded background checks or no more money to your campaign

Because Senators and Congressmen should listen to donors rather than the people they are elected to represent... WOW.. But whats new I guess..

 

[Kasparov]

Support expanded background checks or no more money to your campaign

Because Senators and Congressmen should listen to donors rather than the people they are elected to represent... WOW.. But whats new I guess..

That's basically what the NRA does to Repub Senators/Congresspeople. Dem donors are finally catching on.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Support expanded background checks or no more money to your campaign

Because Senators and Congressmen should listen to donors rather than the people they are elected to represent... WOW.. But whats new I guess..

That's basically what the NRA does to Repub Senators/Congresspeople. Dem donors are finally catching on.

Or it's business as usual for the Dems and therefore nothing wrong with the NRA doing it all this time.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Support expanded background checks or no more money to your campaign

Because Senators and Congressmen should listen to donors rather than the people they are elected to represent... WOW.. But whats new I guess..

That's basically what the NRA does to Repub Senators/Congresspeople. Dem donors are finally catching on.

Or it's business as usual for the Dems and therefore nothing wrong with the NRA doing it all this time.

Disgusting behavior on both sides and basically the problem we have as a country with our government...

 

[Henry Ford]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about?

Otherwise it's digusting?

 

[ATC1]

I don't know why I waste my time arguing with you guys. You love anecdotes, but reason and logic appear to be completely meaningless to you on this subject. That's OK. Whether its in a few months or a few years, universal background checks ARE coming. Followed by, hopefully, a national registration of all firearms.

Universal background checks won't work unless you have registration.

Yes they will. They won't work quite as well, but they WILL work. The reason is because most people are honest. Most people who engage in private sales or transfers of firearms are not criminals, but are honest people who would not be involved in a crime if they knew about it. That is why this will make such a difference.

So explain again how you would enforce these laws?

I wouldn't. As I tried to explain in my example, they would enforce themselves to a large extent, because most people are honest. If you give most people new forms that they have to fill in, they will fill them in. Sure some will refuse because they are criminal, or because they resent or fear the government, but this is a small minority. Most will comply. Even if criminals don't, it will require two people breaking the law to complete an illegal sale, rather than one.

So how about the people who don't care about laws?And I hope you're not serious with that post because that clearly is living in fantasy land.

I absolutely am serious and I am not living in fantasy land. To answer your question: those people who don't care about laws will still purchase guns illegally. But since this will involve two people willing to break the law rather than one (a buyer and a seller, rather than just a buyer) these transactions won't happen as often. Therefore the amount of illegal sales will go down.

Not to mention that if a small number of people will sell to criminals. Once in jail they won't be able to sell to the next criminal. Why do we need a national registry? All licensed transfers should be recorded. Gun was initially sold by this distributor. Mr. X sold to Mr. Y through a licensed dealer who is required perform back ground checks and to maintain proof of the transaction. Eventually it will get in the hands of a criminal. The owner that sold it to that criminal commits a felony and thus can not own a weapon. In before someone says, "What if the gun is stolen?" If the gun is stolen then that person is required to report it. In doing so would be a misdemeanor and fine. However, not doing so and the gun is in a crime, it will result in a felony. See if people start locking up their firearms better.

You have lost your mind. You want to give victims of a crime a criminal record and fine? Liberals are bat#### crazy.

Far from liberal. Victims of car accidents get caught without having insurance all the time. You have a better idea of making people responsible? Stolen weapons seems to be the easiest way for a criminal to get their hands on them.

 

[ATC1]

From personal experience I knew two people who committed suicide. Both were under 20, both were by firearm. I would never joke about suicide.

If only there was a law that says anyone under 21 can not possess a firearm.

 

[Sabertooth]

I doubt that the 14 year old female classmate owned the gun she used.

 

[ATC1]

I doubt that the 14 year old female classmate owned the gun she used.

Who owned the gun? Did he/she go to jail?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about? Otherwise it's digusting?

It's disgusting that donors have more pull with our elected officials than the people the elected officials are elected to represent.. You disagree?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

really liking Rand Paul

 

[Henry Ford]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about? Otherwise it's digusting?

It's disgusting that donors have more pull with our elected officials than the people the elected officials are elected to represent.. You disagree?

Re-read the exchange. Disgusting behavior refers to what the donors are doing.

 

[cstu]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about?Otherwise it's digusting?

What's disgusting is that 'donors' are allowed to influence politicians with money. It's corruption but we treat it like it's nothing.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about?

Otherwise it's digusting?

It's disgusting that donors have more pull with our elected officials than the people the elected officials are elected to represent.. You disagree?

Re-read the exchange. Disgusting behavior refers to what the donors are doing.

I've reread the exchange. Nope I didn't specificly say this..

But their behavior is disgusting as well.. Our elected officials are meant to represent all of the people. Not just the people with enough money to fund their campaign. Any behavior in that line could be considered bribery, and anyone involved in that is a problem for our political system and therefore the behavior is disgusting.

 

[Apple Jack]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about?

Otherwise it's digusting?

It's disgusting that donors have more pull with our elected officials than the people the elected officials are elected to represent.. You disagree?

Re-read the exchange. Disgusting behavior refers to what the donors are doing.

I've reread the exchange. Nope I didn't specificly say this..

But their behavior is disgusting as well.. Our elected officials are meant to represent all of the people. Not just the people with enough money to fund their campaign. Any behavior in that line could be considered bribery, and anyone involved in that is a problem for our political system and therefore the behavior is disgusting.

So where do you come down on campaign finance reform?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about?

Otherwise it's digusting?

It's disgusting that donors have more pull with our elected officials than the people the elected officials are elected to represent.. You disagree?

Re-read the exchange. Disgusting behavior refers to what the donors are doing.

I've reread the exchange. Nope I didn't specificly say this..

But their behavior is disgusting as well.. Our elected officials are meant to represent all of the people. Not just the people with enough money to fund their campaign. Any behavior in that line could be considered bribery, and anyone involved in that is a problem for our political system and therefore the behavior is disgusting.

So where do you come down on campaign finance reform?

The system is broken and I'm not sure how to fix it... Money rules.. But it certainly doesn't work in a mannor that is to the advantage of the average citizen..

 

[ichris]

Wait, so donors should have to contribute to political campaigns even when the politician doesn't support the causes those donors care about?Otherwise it's digusting?

What's disgusting is that 'donors' are allowed to influence politicians with money. It's corruption but we treat it like it's nothing.

Government without graft doesn't exist.

 

[tom22406]

This was too good to not share.

Diana DeGette in yet another example of someone who is clueless on guns.

 

[ATC1]

This was too good to not share.

Diana DeGette in yet another example of someone who is clueless on guns.

I have no problem hearing the opinions against high capacity mags, but this is just pointless. Does she really want to be taken seriously?

 

[timschochet]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.

Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

 

[Abraham]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Agreed. It seems like there will be rhetoric and bull (as usual) and nothing remotely important will happen. It's taken me two months to convince my ultra-liberal mother that the Assault Weapons Ban is a stupid idea, not because we should do nothing but because the bill is toothless and pointless and exists only to make people like her think they are making progress. I told her that she should expect MORE and should not be placated by politicians trying to fake their way out of meaningful change.

Her neighbor is a congressman whose father was shot and killed in the line of duty by a guy with a legally registered firearm. Even HE won't do anything about gun control because he'd rather keep his job than act on personal principle. Mom says it makes him spineless, I say it makes him a politician.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

It's pretty much over. You guys won. Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Pretty sure I told you this would happen like 150 pages ago.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.

Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

http://gunowners.org/a04032013.htm

 

[tom22406]

This was too good to not share.

Diana DeGette in yet another example of someone who is clueless on guns.

Quite similar to the Feinstein cluelessness if you ask me so the answer to your question is pretty clear here.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

This was too good to not share.

Diana DeGette in yet another example of someone who is clueless on guns.

What an idiot

 

[Rayderr]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

IMO, the gun control crowd made 2 critical mistakes. 1. Try to pass gun laws beyond the universal background check. 2. Saying that all these gun laws must be done because of Newtown, when the proposed laws would not have stopped Newtown.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

The ACLU is against Reid's Gun Bill saying that it threatens privacy rights and civil liberties.

 

[ATC1]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

IMO, the gun control crowd made 2 critical mistakes. 1. Try to pass gun laws beyond the universal background check. 2. Saying that all these gun laws must be done because of Newtown, when the proposed laws would not have stopped Newtown.

And instead of trying something else that may work they will just sit back and wait for another horrible tragedy. Something still needs to be done.

 

[[icon]]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

I think I may go to the range up the street at lunch and but a box of 9mm through my Glock in celebration.

 

[timschochet]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

IMO, the gun control crowd made 2 critical mistakes. 1. Try to pass gun laws beyond the universal background check. 2. Saying that all these gun laws must be done because of Newtown, when the proposed laws would not have stopped Newtown.

I agree on both counts, and I have made both points at various times in this thread.

 

[Chaos Commish]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

IMO, the gun control crowd made 2 critical mistakes. 1. Try to pass gun laws beyond the universal background check. 2. Saying that all these gun laws must be done because of Newtown, when the proposed laws would not have stopped Newtown.

And instead of trying something else that may work they will just sit back and wait for another horrible tragedy. Something still needs to be done.

Nothing is over. Nobody won. Tim is a drama queen with limited understanding of the topic.

We live under the laws of the states in which we reside. Many states have already and still are turning the screws on ever tightening gun legislation. The process is in early stages across the country. There's a nationwide macro evolution of legalized infringement happening on a micro level every day. This state and local process informing us of the laws we must comply with is what impacts citizens ability to exercise this right to bear arms.

The primary problem at the federal level, a lack of sensible leadership and informed debate, is worsened by ignorance, defiance, and ridiculous sensationalism from both anti and pro gun politicians. Ignore them. They're bad entertainers. That's being nice. On the state level at least the entertainment is better. Dumb and Dumber is pretty funny if you're in the mood for it.

I agree the political capital banked from Newtown has largely gone to waste. Blame whoever you want. I lay it at the foot of democratic leadership. That's probably the part of this post that will generate comments.

I doubt they'll learn from the waste. I think they like waste. But I agree they'll sit back and wait for another mass killing before ramping up the outrage and ignorance again. Yay for that for now, but what's happening on the state and local level is what will make the better written history books.

 

[ichris]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Instead of pouting why don't you urge the government to enforce the laws that already exist? Prosecuting prohibited people who illegally attempt to purchase a gun is easy, the form 4473 is enough evidence to convict. No new laws are necessary.

 

[Chaos Commish]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.

Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Instead of pouting why don't you urge the government to enforce the laws that already exist? Prosecuting prohibited people who illegally attempt to purchase a gun is easy, the form 4473 is enough evidence to convict. No new laws are necessary.

Many pro 2Aers think Lindsey Graham was awesome in this clip. The truth is every thing he says is deliberately deceptive and stupid. I'm not going to defend that because if you listen to those trying to be rational with him the explanation is plain as day.

 

[ATC1]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.

Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Instead of pouting why don't you urge the government to enforce the laws that already exist? Prosecuting prohibited people who illegally attempt to purchase a gun is easy, the form 4473 is enough evidence to convict. No new laws are necessary.

Many pro 2Aers think Lindsey Graham was awesome in this clip. The truth is every thing he says is deliberately deceptive and stupid. I'm not going to defend that because if you listen to those trying to be rational with him the explanation is plain as day.

Love the look on the Chief of Police's face. You can tell he loves the political stunts.

 

[timschochet]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

IMO, the gun control crowd made 2 critical mistakes. 1. Try to pass gun laws beyond the universal background check. 2. Saying that all these gun laws must be done because of Newtown, when the proposed laws would not have stopped Newtown.

And instead of trying something else that may work they will just sit back and wait for another horrible tragedy. Something still needs to be done.

Nothing is over. Nobody won. Tim is a drama queen with limited understanding of the topic.

We live under the laws of the states in which we reside. Many states have already and still are turning the screws on ever tightening gun legislation. The process is in early stages across the country. There's a nationwide macro evolution of legalized infringement happening on a micro level every day. This state and local process informing us of the laws we must comply with is what impacts citizens ability to exercise this right to bear arms.

You write this and then you call ME a drama queen? Unbelievable.

 

[timschochet]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Instead of pouting why don't you urge the government to enforce the laws that already exist? Prosecuting prohibited people who illegally attempt to purchase a gun is easy, the form 4473 is enough evidence to convict. No new laws are necessary.

Like to, but the NRA has prevented this. They have both demonized and weakened the power of the ATF to the point where it is helpless. There's no way to enforce laws if the state is not given the power to do so.

 

[timschochet]

And as far as saying nobody won, bull####. Universal background checks make complete and total sense. Every civilized country in the world that allows gun ownership have them, and national registration of all guns as well. All of the countries that pro-gun types use as examples of what we should be like, such as Israel, have these laws. Everyone but us. We don't have them for one reason and one reason only: the paranoia of gun-owners who support the NRA.

So somebody sure did win here: the crazies.

 

[tom22406]

And as far as saying nobody won, bull####. Universal background checks make complete and total sense. Every civilized country in the world that allows gun ownership have them, and national registration of all guns as well. All of the countries that pro-gun types use as examples of what we should be like, such as Israel, have these laws. Everyone but us. We don't have them for one reason and one reason only: the paranoia of gun-owners who support the NRA.

So somebody sure did win here: the crazies.

Do you honestly think this is over?

This was just another small battle,the war is far from over.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Instead of pouting why don't you urge the government to enforce the laws that already exist? Prosecuting prohibited people who illegally attempt to purchase a gun is easy, the form 4473 is enough evidence to convict. No new laws are necessary.

Like to, but the NRA has prevented this. They have both demonized and weakened the power of the ATF to the point where it is helpless. There's no way to enforce laws if the state is not given the power to do so.

Yes the big bad NRA is preventing the state from doing their job. That's why Police Chief Flynn said they don't chase paper they chase guns, the fact of the matter is the Police Department in this case and in many states pick and choose which laws they want to enforce.

 

[timschochet]

And as far as saying nobody won, bull####. Universal background checks make complete and total sense. Every civilized country in the world that allows gun ownership have them, and national registration of all guns as well. All of the countries that pro-gun types use as examples of what we should be like, such as Israel, have these laws. Everyone but us. We don't have them for one reason and one reason only: the paranoia of gun-owners who support the NRA.

So somebody sure did win here: the crazies.

Do you honestly think this is over?

This was just another small battle,the war is far from over.

There is no war. The war is in your mind. And if there was a war, I would probably be on your side. I disapprove of most gun control measures.

I wanted ONE thing: universal background checks. For me, that was the entire war. It's lost.

 

[tom22406]

And as far as saying nobody won, bull####. Universal background checks make complete and total sense. Every civilized country in the world that allows gun ownership have them, and national registration of all guns as well. All of the countries that pro-gun types use as examples of what we should be like, such as Israel, have these laws. Everyone but us. We don't have them for one reason and one reason only: the paranoia of gun-owners who support the NRA.

So somebody sure did win here: the crazies.

Do you honestly think this is over?

This was just another small battle,the war is far from over.

There is no war. The war is in your mind. And if there was a war, I would probably be on your side. I disapprove of most gun control measures.

I wanted ONE thing: universal background checks. For me, that was the entire war. It's lost.

I love how you always try and twist things onto the crazy side.Please look around at what states are doing and tell me a war is not going on.Just because your small wish for federal laws isn't what you got doesn't mean states aren't taking measures to limit things.

As has been stated many times,what will happen is the next incident will go down and the left crazies(see what I did there)will start this all over again and slowly but surely will eventually get what they want in this.

I am all for background checks for the record but I guess I'm too crazy for you somehow.

 

[ichris]

It's pretty much over. You guys won.Universal background checks seemed like a pretty good idea to me (and to 90% of the public). But the NRA doesn't want them so we're not going to get them. Congratulations.

Instead of pouting why don't you urge the government to enforce the laws that already exist? Prosecuting prohibited people who illegally attempt to purchase a gun is easy, the form 4473 is enough evidence to convict. No new laws are necessary.

Like to, but the NRA has prevented this. They have both demonized and weakened the power of the ATF to the point where it is helpless. There's no way to enforce laws if the state is not given the power to do so.

lol, that's delusional.

It's absurd to suggest the ATF can't follow up when a violent criminal attempts to buy a gun. I'd argue that's one of the most important tasks of their job! It's even more absurd to blame it on the NRA.

On the other hand the ATF doesn't seem to mind bending laws as they see fit. The various laws they broke during the Fast and Furious operation is cause for concern, and a good argument for MORE oversight.

 

[[icon]]

So somebody sure did win here: the crazies.

They benched Kobe again?

 

[ichris]

And as far as saying nobody won, bull####. Universal background checks make complete and total sense. Every civilized country in the world that allows gun ownership have them, and national registration of all guns as well. All of the countries that pro-gun types use as examples of what we should be like, such as Israel, have these laws. Everyone but us. We don't have them for one reason and one reason only: the paranoia of gun-owners who support the NRA.

So somebody sure did win here: the crazies.

Do you honestly think this is over?

This was just another small battle,the war is far from over.

There is no war. The war is in your mind. And if there was a war, I would probably be on your side. I disapprove of most gun control measures.

I wanted ONE thing: universal background checks. For me, that was the entire war. It's lost.

The NRA isn't alone, those crazies at the ACLU also have major concerns over the proposed universal background check system. Bunch of paranoid neanderthals!

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/04/nra-welcomes-aclu-to-gun-debate-shares-significant-concerns-with-reid-bill/2/

Wasn't there a time when you cared about civil liberties, tim?