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***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (5 Viewers)

Missouri House passes pro-gun bill package with better open carry, school carry, anti federal involvement, and more.

Summary

  • Open carry already in the state, now adds permitted OC in banned areas.
  • Bans MO law enforcement from enforcing federal laws.
  • Allows schools to have teachers conceal carry and be basically cops on school grounds.
  • Lowers CCW age from 21 to 19.
  • Allows state employees to carry on state property, in their vehicle.
  • If you commit a felony while in possession of a gun, you get extra time.
  • Makes it illegal for anyone to keep a database or records on CCW holders.
Open carry - The main reason I believe for this is in case someone who has a permit to conceal carry accidentally shows he is carrying. If that is the case he will not be committing a crime, he would be open carrying with a CCW.

Carrying on the schools grounds - A great first step. Basically the school has a designated teacher or other school personnel to be able to carry as a school protection officer. They must have a CCP and take additional training as the school protection officer. The school district has the ability to revoke the designation at any time. A list of designated officers are to be given to law enforcement, but not to be made public.

Age of CCP holder. Not sure I completely agree there, but being able to own a gun and carrying properly is not a objective, but subjective standard. Hard to police when a person should be deemed as ready to carry.

 
Missouri House passes pro-gun bill package with better open carry, school carry, anti federal involvement, and more.

Summary

  • Open carry already in the state, now adds permitted OC in banned areas.
  • Bans MO law enforcement from enforcing federal laws.
  • Allows schools to have teachers conceal carry and be basically cops on school grounds.
  • Lowers CCW age from 21 to 19.
  • Allows state employees to carry on state property, in their vehicle.
  • If you commit a felony while in possession of a gun, you get extra time.
  • Makes it illegal for anyone to keep a database or records on CCW holders.
Open carry - The main reason I believe for this is in case someone who has a permit to conceal carry accidentally shows he is carrying. If that is the case he will not be committing a crime, he would be open carrying with a CCW.

Carrying on the schools grounds - A great first step. Basically the school has a designated teacher or other school personnel to be able to carry as a school protection officer. They must have a CCP and take additional training as the school protection officer. The school district has the ability to revoke the designation at any time. A list of designated officers are to be given to law enforcement, but not to be made public.

Age of CCP holder. Not sure I completely agree there, but being able to own a gun and carrying properly is not a objective, but subjective standard. Hard to police when a person should be deemed as ready to carry.
My takeaway for the lowering of age is for protection on college campuses where the youngest age is 18-19 years old.

 
Before Connecticut tragedy, administration eliminated emergency preparedness program,let school violence prevention programs lapse
UPDATED 7:59 AM EST, JANUARY 2, 2013 | BY JOHN SOLOMON AND KIMBERLY DVORAK
Why It Matters:
Politicians across the country are vowing to do more to prevent school shooting tragedies like the one that unfolded Friday in Newtown, Conn. But over the last few years, the Obama administration and Congress allowed funding for several school safety initiatives to lapse.
Beneath the expressions of grief, sorrow and disbelief over the Connecticut school massacre lies an uneasy truth in Washington: over the last few years the Obama administration and Congress quietly let federal funding for several key school security programs lapse in the name of budget savings.

Government officials told the Washington Guardian on Friday night that two Justice Department programs that had provided more than $200 million to schools for training, security equipment and police resources over the last decade weren't renewed in 2011 and 2012, and that a separate program that provided $800 million to put police officers inside the schools was ended a few years earlier.

Meanwhile, the administration eliminated funding in 2011-12 for a separate Education Department program that gave money to schools to prepare for mass tragedies, the officials said.

A nationally recognized school security expert said those funds had been critical for years in helping schools continue to enhance protections against growing threats of violence. But they simply dried up with little notice as the Columbine and Virginia Tech school shooting tragedies faded from memory and many Americans and political leaders had their attentions diverted to elections, a weak economy and overseas dramas.

“I was baffled to see funds and programs cut in these areas,” said Kenneth Trump, the president of the National School Safety and Security Services firm that helps school districts and policymakers improve protections for teachers and students. “Our political and policy leaders need to walk the walk, not just talk the talk about being concerned about school safety.

“We have roller coaster public awareness, public policy, and public funding when it comes to school safety. The question isn't whether school safety is a priority today and tomorrow,” Trump added. “The question is whether it will be a priority years down the road when there isn't a crisis in the headlines.”

Leaders in both parties in Washington on Friday expressed remorse and disbelief in the tragedy in the tiny suburban Connecticut town of Newtown, where a single 20-year-old gunman walked into the school where his mother taught and killed 20 children and six others before turning the gun on himself.

"Our hearts are broken today," President Barack Obama said, wiping a tear from his eyes as he reacted to the tragedy. "As a country we have been through this too many times.

"These neighborhoods are our neighborhoods, and these children are our children. And we're going to have to come together and take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like this, regardless of the politics," the president added.

But last year, his administration took a less muted tone as it submitted its 2012 Education Department budget to Congress that eliminated the Readiness and Emergency Management for Schools (REMS) funding, which for years provided between $20 million and $30 million in annual grants to help schools create emergency and crisis preparation and prevention plans for tragedies just like the one that unfolded Friday.

The Education Department’s Web site says it last made REMS grants in 2011.

The funding was cut off even though the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress, warned in 2007 that many “many school district officials said that they experience challenges in planning for emergencies due to a lack of equipment, training for staff, and expertise and some school districts face difficulties in communicating and coordinating with first responders and parents.”

Likewise, the Justice Department over the last 12 years distributed nearly $1 billion in funding to help schools hire police resource officers, install metal detectors and take other countermeasures to prevent tragedies like the Columbine massacre.

The town of Newtown, Conn., in fact, took advantage of one of these programs in 2000 when it got $125,000 in funds from the COPS in Schools program, Justice Department records show.

But Justice Department officials said the key programs that provided money directly to schools in the aftermath of Columbine have been phased out as of 2012, the last after the 2011 budget year.

For instance, the Secure Our Schools program provided more than $110 million in funding to law enforcement agencies to partner with schools for the purchase of crime prevention equipment, staff and student training between 2002 and 2011, officials said. It was ended this year.

Likewise, the School Safety Initiative provided more than $53 million between 1998 and 2010 in grants to help state and local agencies with delinquency prevention, community planning and development, and school safety resources – all aimed at preventing violence. The program ended in 2011.

Justice Department spokesman Corey Ray said Friday night that the SSI and SOS programs had been funded primarily by congressional earmarks for the last decade and the administration did not seek additional funding to continue the efforts after lawmakers essentially banned most earmarks in 2010.

“They were funded through congressionally designated funding (earmarks). They ended in 2010 or 2011 when that process of funding ceased,” he said.

The biggest funding program for school violence was the COPS in Schools program, which Ray said provided $811 millions to communities to hire resource officers who worked inside the schools. The targeted funding for schools was ended in 2005 but police are still allowed to apply for broader police hiring money from the general COPS program and then use it to hire school resource officers if they want, Ray said.

“As the economy changed, we had agencies asking for all types of positions including school resource officers,” Ray explained. “So we gave our main hiring program the flexibility to include SROs and other positions. So no COPS In Schools, but still some options to hire for those positions.”

Some liberal groups have increasingly voiced concerns about the increased spending on police and security at schools. For instance, the Justice Policy Institute, a think tank, wrote a report in 2011 entitled "Education Under Arrest" that concluded that "schools do not need school resource officers to be safe."

White House officials did not return repeated calls and emails Friday night seeking comment on the administration's rationale for letting the programs lapse.

With funding for K-12 schools and law enforcement agencies evaporating, police and schools have partnered in an effort to ensure safety by creating makeshift programs that target at-risk schools.

San Diego may provide the most sunshine each year, but it’s also home to multiple K-12 school shootings. San Diego Police Department Lt. Andra Brown said funding for many effective programs succumbed to downsizing and cutbacks. Programs like SOS and DARE are “nice to have,” but aren’t necessarily a “need to have.”

The Department has opted to focus on Psychiatric Emergency Response Team or PERT. “The program pairs a health care psychiatrist with a police officer in the field to proactively stop situations from exploding.”

While San Diego Police may be working proactively to prevent psychologically unstable adults from major crime sprees, the Sheriff Department takes a different approach.

“We are not of the mindset this could not happen here; because it has,” said San Diego Sheriff Public Affairs Director Jan Caldwell. “We work with the school superintendents, principals, staff, and school facility staff members to ensure we have access to the buildings, floor plans and keys to enter when we have to do so.”

Caldwell is also part of San Diego County Crime Stoppers and chair of the Students Speaking Out Committee. “This sub-program is tailored to campuses and provides students an avenue to report suspicious activity at their school. This sub program has had a total of 331 cases solved since inception. We've removed weapons from campuses, drugs, confronted bullying behavior, solved robberies, burglaries, vandalism, and drug cases.”

However, this program depends on the generous donations from large corporations like Target, Sempra Energy, Walmart and the San Diego Chargers.

 
Missouri House passes pro-gun bill package with better open carry, school carry, anti federal involvement, and more.

Summary

  • Open carry already in the state, now adds permitted OC in banned areas.
  • Bans MO law enforcement from enforcing federal laws.
  • Allows schools to have teachers conceal carry and be basically cops on school grounds.
  • Lowers CCW age from 21 to 19.
  • Allows state employees to carry on state property, in their vehicle.
  • If you commit a felony while in possession of a gun, you get extra time.
  • Makes it illegal for anyone to keep a database or records on CCW holders.
Open carry - The main reason I believe for this is in case someone who has a permit to conceal carry accidentally shows he is carrying. If that is the case he will not be committing a crime, he would be open carrying with a CCW.

Carrying on the schools grounds - A great first step. Basically the school has a designated teacher or other school personnel to be able to carry as a school protection officer. They must have a CCP and take additional training as the school protection officer. The school district has the ability to revoke the designation at any time. A list of designated officers are to be given to law enforcement, but not to be made public.

Age of CCP holder. Not sure I completely agree there, but being able to own a gun and carrying properly is not a objective, but subjective standard. Hard to police when a person should be deemed as ready to carry.
My takeaway for the lowering of age is for protection on college campuses where the youngest age is 18-19 years old.
Nothing on there that says any student can carry on campus if they hold a CCP. However, it is important if there will be further legislation brought up in the future about anyone being able to carry.

 
Looking forward to going to pick up my Colt M4 Light Carbine AR-15 sometime this week. :popcorn: Got some Troy Industries Flip Down Battle Sights for it and will be taking it out to a buddy's land where they've got a nice 100yd shooting range set up alongside their runway and 9 hole golf course. Not sure on which optics I'll be getting just yet... will be trying a few out. :thumbup:
Do you jerk off on your guns? It sounds like you do.
Well, this is some childish posting here. I was unaware our forum here was so popular with grade schoolers.

 
Looking forward to going to pick up my Colt M4 Light Carbine AR-15 sometime this week. :popcorn: Got some Troy Industries Flip Down Battle Sights for it and will be taking it out to a buddy's land where they've got a nice 100yd shooting range set up alongside their runway and 9 hole golf course. Not sure on which optics I'll be getting just yet... will be trying a few out. :thumbup:
Nice!! Where are you buying it from and how much if you don't mind? Thanks
Colt LE-6900 was ordered from Whitaker Guns in KY. Paid $849 new (MSRP 899) which is a great price in this environment. It's currently paid for and sitting at my FFL and I just need to go pick it up. Troy Battle Sights were ordered from them for a touch over $200 for the set. For optics, I'll likely just start with a Primary Arms Micro Dot when they are back in stock in a couple weeks.

My handgun target shooting skills have improved by orders of magnitude thanks to some classes. Now I'm looking to home my longer range marksmanship. :thumbup:

 
Looking forward to going to pick up my Colt M4 Light Carbine AR-15 sometime this week. :popcorn: Got some Troy Industries Flip Down Battle Sights for it and will be taking it out to a buddy's land where they've got a nice 100yd shooting range set up alongside their runway and 9 hole golf course. Not sure on which optics I'll be getting just yet... will be trying a few out. :thumbup:
Nice!! Where are you buying it from and how much if you don't mind? Thanks
Colt LE-6900 was ordered from Whitaker Guns in KY. Paid $849 new (MSRP 899) which is a great price in this environment. It's currently paid for and sitting at my FFL and I just need to go pick it up. Troy Battle Sights were ordered from them for a touch over $200 for the set. For optics, I'll likely just start with a Primary Arms Micro Dot when they are back in stock in a couple weeks.

My handgun target shooting skills have improved by orders of magnitude thanks to some classes. Now I'm looking to home my longer range marksmanship. :thumbup:
Thanks for the info!!! Great price for the Colt!!

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
Did it ever occur to you that a lot of us don't feel that we NEED it, but that we simply WANT it? I am not under any impression that I'll be part of a rebellion, firing upon govt soldiers with my newly purchased AR. Ever. I do, however, enjoy the sport of shooting them.

Marksmanship is a skill that is enjoyable for me (and millions of other Americans) to practice. It is a skill that is featured in the Olympics among other various levels of competition. It is a skill that can provide food in the form of hunting. It is also a skill that could, albeit an unlikely scenario for most folks, save the life of you or someone you love.

There are certainly risks associated... but those risks are generally mitigated to levels far lower than many other more popular forms of entertainment by taking simple steps toward being a responsible gun owner.

 
I love the responsible gun owner play. Like the deputy who's 4 year old found daddy's gun and shot a visiting mom? Or the 4 year old who found daddy's gun and shot his 6 year old friend? People who play the responsible gun owner card say these are tragic accidents, mistakes, or even a collateral byproduct of our freedom to own guns.

The problem I have is that the visiting mom, and the 6 year old friend and his parents have a right to not get shot dead that, in my view, trumps the responsible gun owner's right to have a little fun target shooting or telling others about his cool new toy. The never ending shoulder shrugging of responsible gun owners over these near daily shootings fails to recognize that the responsible gun owners are tacitly approving of these and other shootings by not supporting limits on who, what, and how guns are owned in this country.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
Did it ever occur to you that a lot of us don't feel that we NEED it, but that we simply WANT it? I am not under any impression that I'll be part of a rebellion, firing upon govt soldiers with my newly purchased AR. Ever. I do, however, enjoy the sport of shooting them.

Marksmanship is a skill that is enjoyable for me (and millions of other Americans) to practice. It is a skill that is featured in the Olympics among other various levels of competition. It is a skill that can provide food in the form of hunting. It is also a skill that could, albeit an unlikely scenario for most folks, save the life of you or someone you love.

There are certainly risks associated... but those risks are generally mitigated to levels far lower than many other more popular forms of entertainment by taking simple steps toward being a responsible gun owner.
I'm from SW Va - I'm fairly certain I spent more time in blinds and fired more rounds before age 13 than you have in your entire life combined.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The point you should take from that gun is that the whole idea of an "assault rifle" is nonsense. It's all based on how a gun looks rather than its capabilities.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
Did it ever occur to you that a lot of us don't feel that we NEED it, but that we simply WANT it? I am not under any impression that I'll be part of a rebellion, firing upon govt soldiers with my newly purchased AR. Ever. I do, however, enjoy the sport of shooting them.

Marksmanship is a skill that is enjoyable for me (and millions of other Americans) to practice. It is a skill that is featured in the Olympics among other various levels of competition. It is a skill that can provide food in the form of hunting. It is also a skill that could, albeit an unlikely scenario for most folks, save the life of you or someone you love.

There are certainly risks associated... but those risks are generally mitigated to levels far lower than many other more popular forms of entertainment by taking simple steps toward being a responsible gun owner.
I'm from SW Va - I'm fairly certain I spent more time in blinds and fired more rounds before age 13 than you have in your entire life combined.
Awesome. Now would you mind putting your eRooster away and opening your eyes to the actual point of my post?

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The point you should take from that gun is that the whole idea of an "assault rifle" is nonsense. It's all based on how a gun looks rather than its capabilities.
Forget it.... he's gone "full oblivious" at this point.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
Did it ever occur to you that a lot of us don't feel that we NEED it, but that we simply WANT it? I am not under any impression that I'll be part of a rebellion, firing upon govt soldiers with my newly purchased AR. Ever. I do, however, enjoy the sport of shooting them.

Marksmanship is a skill that is enjoyable for me (and millions of other Americans) to practice. It is a skill that is featured in the Olympics among other various levels of competition. It is a skill that can provide food in the form of hunting. It is also a skill that could, albeit an unlikely scenario for most folks, save the life of you or someone you love.

There are certainly risks associated... but those risks are generally mitigated to levels far lower than many other more popular forms of entertainment by taking simple steps toward being a responsible gun owner.
I'm from SW Va - I'm fairly certain I spent more time in blinds and fired more rounds before age 13 than you have in your entire life combined.
Did you really just do a "Look at me! I'm a hunter!"?

 
Responsible gun owners aren't the problem. The problem as I see it, is there any way to legislate gun control without infringing on the responsible gun owners rights. I'm not sure there is any way to do it.

If all gun owners were responsible there wouldn't be any debate.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
Did it ever occur to you that a lot of us don't feel that we NEED it, but that we simply WANT it? I am not under any impression that I'll be part of a rebellion, firing upon govt soldiers with my newly purchased AR. Ever. I do, however, enjoy the sport of shooting them.

Marksmanship is a skill that is enjoyable for me (and millions of other Americans) to practice. It is a skill that is featured in the Olympics among other various levels of competition. It is a skill that can provide food in the form of hunting. It is also a skill that could, albeit an unlikely scenario for most folks, save the life of you or someone you love.

There are certainly risks associated... but those risks are generally mitigated to levels far lower than many other more popular forms of entertainment by taking simple steps toward being a responsible gun owner.
I'm from SW Va - I'm fairly certain I spent more time in blinds and fired more rounds before age 13 than you have in your entire life combined.
Did you really just do a "Look at me! I'm a hunter!"?
No, I'm no longer a hunter. I was just letting Mr. "did it ever occur to you" know that yes, his drivel has "occurred to me".

 
Responsible gun owners aren't the problem. The problem as I see it, is there any way to legislate gun control without infringing on the responsible gun owners rights. I'm not sure there is any way to do it.If all gun owners were responsible there wouldn't be any debate.
My arguement is the VAST VAST majority of gun owners ARE responsible. The number of accidental gun deaths (~850 in 2011) annually in the US is 80% less than those killed on Motorcycles (~4500) despite gun owners dramatically outnumbering motorcyclists.The fact that some cyclists are irresponsible with regards to helmets/driving technique causing deaths of themselves and others at a rate 5 times that of firearms doesn't seem to strike up any issue. My point is both are very legitimate hobbies with purposes far outside the "only purpose is to kill people" assertion laid out by some in this thread. You can address the intentional deaths by firearms but given the dubious nature of any claims that banning would have a significant impact on crime, coupled with the fact that gun crime is largely contained to the criminal culture. (over 90% of gun violence victims are felons, and over 90% of gun homicide suspect are felons (who didn't procure the gun through channels blocked by legislation in the first place). Considering that 70-80 Million adults have chosen to own a firearms for protection (67%), target shooting (66%) or hunting (58%)... that seems like a massive subset of Americans to deny the right to own a firearm because of a exceedingly limited number of preventable gun related deaths impacting the general populace. Just my opinion of course :)

 
No, I'm no longer a hunter. I was just letting Mr. "did it ever occur to you" know that yes, his drivel has "occurred to me".
The fact that ~80 million american adults choose to exercise their right to legally and responsibly own guns and participate in legitimate gun-related hobbies/sport is drivel? Okay. There is a reason the NRA is so well funded....
 
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Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
 
I love the responsible gun owner play. Like the deputy who's 4 year old found daddy's gun and shot a visiting mom? Or the 4 year old who found daddy's gun and shot his 6 year old friend? People who play the responsible gun owner card say these are tragic accidents, mistakes, or even a collateral byproduct of our freedom to own guns. The problem I have is that the visiting mom, and the 6 year old friend and his parents have a right to not get shot dead that, in my view, trumps the responsible gun owner's right to have a little fun target shooting or telling others about his cool new toy. The never ending shoulder shrugging of responsible gun owners over these near daily shootings fails to recognize that the responsible gun owners are tacitly approving of these and other shootings by not supporting limits on who, what, and how guns are owned in this country.
Do they have a right not to get struck by lightning? Because they're twice as likely to experience that than death by gun.
 
Responsible gun owners aren't the problem. The problem as I see it, is there any way to legislate gun control without infringing on the responsible gun owners rights. I'm not sure there is any way to do it. If all gun owners were responsible there wouldn't be any debate.
Step 1: enforce existing laws
 
I love the responsible gun owner play. Like the deputy who's 4 year old found daddy's gun and shot a visiting mom? Or the 4 year old who found daddy's gun and shot his 6 year old friend? People who play the responsible gun owner card say these are tragic accidents, mistakes, or even a collateral byproduct of our freedom to own guns. The problem I have is that the visiting mom, and the 6 year old friend and his parents have a right to not get shot dead that, in my view, trumps the responsible gun owner's right to have a little fun target shooting or telling others about his cool new toy. The never ending shoulder shrugging of responsible gun owners over these near daily shootings fails to recognize that the responsible gun owners are tacitly approving of these and other shootings by not supporting limits on who, what, and how guns are owned in this country.
Do they have a right not to get struck by lightning? Because they're twice as likely to experience that than death by gun.
Actually those people have a zero percent chance to get hit by lightning because they 100% experienced death by gun.
 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
In the majority opinion authored by Justice Antonin Scalia, the Court first conducted a textual analysis of the operative clause, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The Court found that this language guarantees an individual right to possess and carry weapons. The Court examined historical evidence that it found consistent with its textual analysis. The Court then considered the Second Amendment’s prefatory clause, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," and determined that while this clause announces a purpose for recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms, it does not limit the operative clause. The Court found that analogous contemporaneous provisions in state constitutions, the Second Amendment’s drafting history, and post-ratification interpretations were consistent with its interpretation of the amendment. The Court asserted that its prior precedent was not inconsistent with its interpretation.

- Supreme Court Ruling as Hosted at the Library of Congress

It's common for those with a less than stellar grasp of law to inaccurately interpret that clause, but I assure you the foremost experts are all over it. :thumbup:

 
Responsible gun owners aren't the problem. The problem as I see it, is there any way to legislate gun control without infringing on the responsible gun owners rights. I'm not sure there is any way to do it. If all gun owners were responsible there wouldn't be any debate.
Step 1: enforce existing laws
Maybe part of the problem is that the NRA doesn't want existing gun laws enforced?
 
tommyboy, on 22 Apr 2013 - 20:39, said:

Mookie, on 22 Apr 2013 - 16:46, said:

I love the responsible gun owner play. Like the deputy who's 4 year old found daddy's gun and shot a visiting mom? Or the 4 year old who found daddy's gun and shot his 6 year old friend? People who play the responsible gun owner card say these are tragic accidents, mistakes, or even a collateral byproduct of our freedom to own guns.
If people accidentally dying as a result of neglect in the homes of others, then surely you're concerned about the 3,533 accidental drownings that occur annually... considering how much of a bigger problem that is than gun deaths (4x more likely). Those people had a right to not drown as a result of something used for recreation at the homes of the people they visit right?

In 2009, among children 1 to 4 years old who died from an unintentional injury, more than 30% died from drowning.1,2 Among children ages 1 to 4, most drownings occur in home swimming pools.2 Drowning is responsible for more deaths among children 1-4 than any other cause except congenital anomalies (birth defects).1 Among those 1-14, fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death behind motor vehicle crashes.1

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
Read the amendment. The right belongs to the people.

 
I love the responsible gun owner play. Like the deputy who's 4 year old found daddy's gun and shot a visiting mom? Or the 4 year old who found daddy's gun and shot his 6 year old friend? People who play the responsible gun owner card say these are tragic accidents, mistakes, or even a collateral byproduct of our freedom to own guns.

The problem I have is that the visiting mom, and the 6 year old friend and his parents have a right to not get shot dead that, in my view, trumps the responsible gun owner's right to have a little fun target shooting or telling others about his cool new toy. The never ending shoulder shrugging of responsible gun owners over these near daily shootings fails to recognize that the responsible gun owners are tacitly approving of these and other shootings by not supporting limits on who, what, and how guns are owned in this country.
So I guess by this post you're for getting rid of ALL guns?

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
In the majority opinion authored by Justice Antonin Scalia, the Court first conducted a textual analysis of the operative clause, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The Court found that this language guarantees an individual right to possess and carry weapons. The Court examined historical evidence that it found consistent with its textual analysis. The Court then considered the Second Amendments prefatory clause, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," and determined that while this clause announces a purpose for recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms, it does not limit the operative clause. The Court found that analogous contemporaneous provisions in state constitutions, the Second Amendments drafting history, and post-ratification interpretations were consistent with its interpretation of the amendment. The Court asserted that its prior precedent was not inconsistent with its interpretation.

- Supreme Court Ruling as Hosted at the Library of Congress

It's common for those with a less than stellar grasp of law to inaccurately interpret that clause, but I assure you the foremost experts are all over it. :thumbup:
Good thing no one ever disagrees with the SC.
 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
Read the amendment. The right belongs to the people.
:lmao:
 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
In the majority opinion authored by Justice Antonin Scalia, the Court first conducted a textual analysis of the operative clause, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The Court found that this language guarantees an individual right to possess and carry weapons. The Court examined historical evidence that it found consistent with its textual analysis. The Court then considered the Second Amendments prefatory clause, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," and determined that while this clause announces a purpose for recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms, it does not limit the operative clause. The Court found that analogous contemporaneous provisions in state constitutions, the Second Amendments drafting history, and post-ratification interpretations were consistent with its interpretation of the amendment. The Court asserted that its prior precedent was not inconsistent with its interpretation.

- Supreme Court Ruling as Hosted at the Library of Congress

It's common for those with a less than stellar grasp of law to inaccurately interpret that clause, but I assure you the foremost experts are all over it. :thumbup:
Good thing no one ever disagrees with the SC.
Nobody said you couldn't disagree with them. Thankfully they, the more educated and possessing of legally sound reason, are the ones making the laws. :)
 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
Read the amendment. The right belongs to the people.
:lmao:
You should probably just stick with threads like those about Game of Thrones. They're more your speed.

 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
In the majority opinion authored by Justice Antonin Scalia, the Court first conducted a textual analysis of the operative clause, "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." The Court found that this language guarantees an individual right to possess and carry weapons. The Court examined historical evidence that it found consistent with its textual analysis. The Court then considered the Second Amendments prefatory clause, "[a] well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State," and determined that while this clause announces a purpose for recognizing an individual right to keep and bear arms, it does not limit the operative clause. The Court found that analogous contemporaneous provisions in state constitutions, the Second Amendments drafting history, and post-ratification interpretations were consistent with its interpretation of the amendment. The Court asserted that its prior precedent was not inconsistent with its interpretation.

- Supreme Court Ruling as Hosted at the Library of Congress

It's common for those with a less than stellar grasp of law to inaccurately interpret that clause, but I assure you the foremost experts are all over it. :thumbup:
Good thing no one ever disagrees with the SC.
Nobody said you couldn't disagree with them. Thankfully they, the more educated and possessing of legally sound reason, are the ones making the laws. :)
How dare you insult the Republican Party like that!
 
Reason #14,003 that passing crappy legislation is not any better than passing no legislation.

California Legal AR.

I'm sure Californians feel much safer now. Meanwhile the back and grey markets will continue to easily satisfy the actual criminals.... just like they were doing before.
I feel safer. That mod costs $190? That's $190 less the morons who feel they need this crap have less to spend on ammo.
The "morons" have a specific constitutional right to buy this stuff which people such as yourself have failed to articulate a compelling argument in favor of repealing.
What well regulated militia do those morons belong to?
Read the amendment. The right belongs to the people.
:lmao:
You should probably just stick with threads like those about Game of Thrones. They're more your speed.
:lmao:
 
this would be an argument of the extreme. Obviously most law abiding gun owners wouldnt' agree with said politician. Like most muslims wouldn't agree with what the two jokers that blew up the Boston Marathon.

If you want to read something truly enlightening, from someone from the liberal side of the political spectrum, read this

 
Not going to change minds one way or another but this is damn funny.

As a gun owner I am appalled by some of the jokers who are defending my right to keep and arm bears.
Yeah! Let's ban all guns to focus on a teeny tiny corner of the violence spectrum.

More...

Who needs miranda rights? YEAH! Let's be more like Australia!

More...

From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia

Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real figures from Down Under.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent; Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria..... lone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....' You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.

The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note Americans, before it's too late! Will you be one of the sheep to turn yours in? WHY? You will need it.

But don't let that stop me from you getting your news from Jon Stewart :lmao:

 
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