***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (3 Viewers)

[Henry Ford]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

 

[ffldrew]

Armed guards in every school.

And we pay for it by taxing each bullet sold by $100

 

[RCon]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

So why not a compromise of 1) eliminate gun free zones, and 2)make concealed carry regulation much more rigorous?

 

[Henry Ford]

...

The simple fact is, I don't want my kids' kindergarten teacher to be the sort of person I think you need to be to pull the gun, pull the trigger, and put two in the chest, one in the head. And I think I'm just fine on that count. I think a lot of people feel that way. For good or ill, I think most of use are of the opinion that arming teachers is a bad idea because you get all of the risk with minimal chance at a reward except in some very limited cases - ex-combat military and/or ex-field agent/officer law enforcement. I have zero problem with them being allowed to keep taking refresher courses and carry, provided that they're not picking up other people's little kids with a gun on their person. But I don't consider them civilians. Kind of a "once a Marine..." thing there in my head, anyway.

I remember my elementary school teachers. I'm pretty sure Mr. Schwartz, as mean an old ******* as he was, couldn't do it. And he's the best example I can think of from my elementary school. He was even in the army before he lost his marbles.

re: the bolded above: a gun-free zone prevents these guys from carrying. That's all we are asking for here - if someone where trained to handle a gun and was willing to jump through whatever hoops the State wanted to put in place, maybe it's worth considering.The real impact, by the way, is not that there is an armed kindergarten teacher. The deterrent is that there would be a probability > 0.00 that a shooter would find armed resistance. In theory, that may prevent an attack.

I totally understand that a gun-free school zone prevents them from carrying. And I agree that someone who is well trained and responsible about guns being on site can make an impact here.Most people who are saying "don't arm the teachers" have said something to the effect that having a soldier or a cop on site with a gun would be acceptable. As such, I think they would also agree that having someone who has the exact same training, regular psych evals, oversight, etc. would also be acceptable. If that can be put into place, I think there may be 1 or 2 people at every school who would be worthwhile to allow to carry. But there would have to be a whole lot more oversight than the current concealed-carry laws I'm aware of before that would get my support.

 

[ericttspikes]

How mentally stable are people who want to own military assault weapons because they are afraid of a government takeover? Seems that if there was some sort of mental test associated with owning guns that a huge chunk of these guys wouldn't pass.

Someone should test Wayne LaPierre to see if he's mentally competent to even own a gun, much less lead the gun lobby. Anyone who backs guys like David Koresh and Randy Weaver, and their paranoid twisted minds, isn't right in the head themselves. This is about mental health, and unfortunately the NRA's position on a lot of these issues is insane. People who believe in black helicopters and the impending New World Order are the ones fighting responsible gun control. It would be nice to see a sane figurehead lead this debate instead of LaPierre. Hopefully the NRA pushes the mental health angle so people can examine how crazy their leadership really is.

 

[Borat]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

 

[ericttspikes]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

No, they just need to shut up.

 

[timschochet]

Well, so much for the NRA offering anything.

I can't say I'm surprised, but I am disappointed. Their only solution is to arm everyone? I don't think they understand where the American people are right now.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

So why not a compromise of 1) eliminate gun free zones, and 2)make concealed carry regulation much more rigorous?

Can you elaborate on what "eliminate gun free zones" means? Are you only talking about school, or do you mean everywhere? Including private property, places of work, etc.?

 

[Jobber]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution.

Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

 

[timschochet]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

I was hoping they would simply represent the wishes of nearly 75% of their membership.

 

[Borat]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

No, they just need to shut up.

I'm a member of the NRA. Why do I need to shut up?

 

[glock]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

Because in their role as sheep herders we would like them to get their heads out of their azzes and take part in an intelligent discussion regarding guns in our society??

 

[timschochet]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution.

Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

It's not clear to me at all. In fact, I don't want it.

 

[Henry Ford]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

So why not a compromise of 1) eliminate gun free zones, and 2)make concealed carry regulation much more rigorous?

Because:1) There is social utility to having places where a guy can get arrested just for having a gun and spend time in prison for it, without having pulled the gun or threatened anyone. That also prevents some crimes. If we change the definition of "gun free" to mean that only people with the training and especially oversight we're discussing are allowed to carry, and only within their "home zone" (for instance, Mr. Johnson the shop teacher is allowed to have his gun at Williamsburg Elementary, but if he brings it to Williamsburg High School where he doesn't work, he's in violation of the gun free zone and should get extra jail time because of his presumed extra knowledge about these laws and his knowing violation) then I can see a possible compromise. Again - there would be a whole lot of details that would have to be hammered out.2) This is absolutely necessary. Absolutely. Whether or not the gun free zone stuff gets addressed, concealed carry permits should be a whole lot tougher to get and require a whole lot more oversight.

 

[Borat]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

I was hoping they would simply represent the wishes of nearly 75% of their membership.

Care to unpack that a bit?

 

[Borat]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

Because in their role as sheep herders we would like them to get their heads out of their azzes and take part in an intelligent discussion regarding guns in our society??

Please re-read what you just posted. You called the NRA "sheep herders" with their heads in their "azzes" and then accused them of not wanting to have an intelligent discussion.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution. Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

Yes, the only thing missing from this conclusion - any relevant supporting evidence.

 

[moleculo]

...

The simple fact is, I don't want my kids' kindergarten teacher to be the sort of person I think you need to be to pull the gun, pull the trigger, and put two in the chest, one in the head. And I think I'm just fine on that count. I think a lot of people feel that way. For good or ill, I think most of use are of the opinion that arming teachers is a bad idea because you get all of the risk with minimal chance at a reward except in some very limited cases - ex-combat military and/or ex-field agent/officer law enforcement. I have zero problem with them being allowed to keep taking refresher courses and carry, provided that they're not picking up other people's little kids with a gun on their person. But I don't consider them civilians. Kind of a "once a Marine..." thing there in my head, anyway.

I remember my elementary school teachers. I'm pretty sure Mr. Schwartz, as mean an old ******* as he was, couldn't do it. And he's the best example I can think of from my elementary school. He was even in the army before he lost his marbles.

re: the bolded above: a gun-free zone prevents these guys from carrying. That's all we are asking for here - if someone where trained to handle a gun and was willing to jump through whatever hoops the State wanted to put in place, maybe it's worth considering.The real impact, by the way, is not that there is an armed kindergarten teacher. The deterrent is that there would be a probability > 0.00 that a shooter would find armed resistance. In theory, that may prevent an attack.

I totally understand that a gun-free school zone prevents them from carrying. And I agree that someone who is well trained and responsible about guns being on site can make an impact here.Most people who are saying "don't arm the teachers" have said something to the effect that having a soldier or a cop on site with a gun would be acceptable. As such, I think they would also agree that having someone who has the exact same training, regular psych evals, oversight, etc. would also be acceptable. If that can be put into place, I think there may be 1 or 2 people at every school who would be worthwhile to allow to carry. But there would have to be a whole lot more oversight than the current concealed-carry laws I'm aware of before that would get my support.

yeah, that's the assumption I'm under - something similar to what commercial airline pilots use.

 

[glock]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

Because in their role as sheep herders we would like them to get their heads out of their azzes and take part in an intelligent discussion regarding guns in our society??

Please re-read what you just posted. You called the NRA "sheep herders" with their heads in their "azzes" and then accused them of not wanting to have an intelligent discussion.

I was avoiding the term, "cowboys" but if you insist.

 

[Borat]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

Because in their role as sheep herders we would like them to get their heads out of their azzes and take part in an intelligent discussion regarding guns in our society??

Please re-read what you just posted. You called the NRA "sheep herders" with their heads in their "azzes" and then accused them of not wanting to have an intelligent discussion.

I was avoiding the term, "cowboys" but if you insist.

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

 

[timschochet]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

I was hoping they would simply represent the wishes of nearly 75% of their membership.

Care to unpack that a bit?

Sure. Polls show 74% of the membership of the NRA support a national database for gun ownership and an end to the private sales loophole. I believe a similar percentage supports a limitation on high capacity magazines.

 

[TobiasFunke]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution. Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

Yes, the only thing missing from this conclusion - any relevant supporting evidence.

But he said it was pretty clear!

 

[Card Trader]

Mexico has some fairly strict gun laws, it obviously helps as they have fewer homicides than the US...not like triple the rate that we have here or anything.

 

[ATC1]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

CCW permits are done state to state. Florida has over 1 million people with permits (not properly trained IMO) and stand your ground laws. That is a recipe for disaster. You pull your weapon out the life of you or those around you better be in jeopardy. I have been noted that I think there should be similar training and background checks to those in the military or police.

 

[Apes with Guns]

It's actually pretty simple, the old saying "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" is spot on.The hand wringers think that once all guns are banned the criminals will hand over their guns because it's illegal. Ridiculous.

why do you call them "hand wringers"?

 

[Ned]

For you people that live in a conceal carry state, you would be amazed at how many people walking around with you in Walmart, Home Depot, Target, Costco or your local supermarket have weapons with them.

Including a lot of woman .

Jesus she's hot./dumbredneck

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution. Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

Yes, the only thing missing from this conclusion - any relevant supporting evidence.

20 dead children down?

post hoc ergo propter hoc

 

[Borat]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

I was hoping they would simply represent the wishes of nearly 75% of their membership.

Care to unpack that a bit?

Sure. Polls show 74% of the membership of the NRA support a national database for gun ownership and an end to the private sales loophole. I believe a similar percentage supports a limitation on high capacity magazines.

Could you please provide a link? I am not surprised about the national database, but I am interested in learning more about the polls regarding private sales and magazine capacity limitations. TIA.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Mexico has some fairly strict gun laws, it obviously helps as they have fewer homicides than the US...not like triple the rate that we have here or anything.

Sigh.Do you really think people who favor strict gun laws can't come up with ten counter-examples of countries with very strict gun laws and low crime/homicide rates? I'm not even in favor of strict gun control laws and I can name several examples off the top of my head just from reading the back and forth over the last few days.Anecdotal point-making nonsense like this is the reason this debate is doomed.

 

[moleculo]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution.

Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

Yes, the only thing missing from this conclusion - any relevant supporting evidence.

if you can get past the title and the obvious pro-gun slant, there's some pretty compelling stuff in the blog linked earlier.

 

[Borat]

20 dead children down?

I really, really hope this was not an intentional pun.

 

[ATC1]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution. Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

Yes, the only thing missing from this conclusion - any relevant supporting evidence.

But he said it was pretty clear!

Yeah there is no evidence, so it really isn't clear. Doesn't mean we should ignore it completely. Because it is a factor when we discuss school safety.

 

[glock]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

Because in their role as sheep herders we would like them to get their heads out of their azzes and take part in an intelligent discussion regarding guns in our society??

Please re-read what you just posted. You called the NRA "sheep herders" with their heads in their "azzes" and then accused them of not wanting to have an intelligent discussion.

I was avoiding the term, "cowboys" but if you insist.

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

Do you think that the NRA shouldn't take part in the discussion? TIA

 

[timschochet]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

I was hoping they would simply represent the wishes of nearly 75% of their membership.

Care to unpack that a bit?

Sure. Polls show 74% of the membership of the NRA support a national database for gun ownership and an end to the private sales loophole. I believe a similar percentage supports a limitation on high capacity magazines.

Could you please provide a link? I am not surprised about the national database, but I am interested in learning more about the polls regarding private sales and magazine capacity limitations. TIA.

I can't provide a link. I've seen it on TV several times (CNN.) I did not expect the NRA to agree to the magazine limitation. I was sort of hoping they would agree to the national database. Instead, LaPierre suggested a national database for the mentally ill.

 

[Henry Ford]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

CCW permits are done state to state. Florida has over 1 million people with permits (not properly trained IMO) and stand your ground laws. That is a recipe for disaster. You pull your weapon out the life of you or those around you better be in jeopardy. I have been noted that I think there should be similar training and background checks to those in the military or police.

And I agree wholeheartedly. I have very little objection to people with enough training and oversight being allowed to carry a firearm. But it had better be on par with what the police and military have. Which would make it expensive and a serious time suck.Frankly, I think having a concealed weapon permit should be as much of a commitment as being a volunteer firefighter or a member of the National Guard. And our country should celebrate people who are willing to do that, but also rigorously weed out people who shouldn't do that.

 

[ATC1]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

So why not a compromise of 1) eliminate gun free zones, and 2)make concealed carry regulation much more rigorous?

Can you elaborate on what "eliminate gun free zones" means? Are you only talking about school, or do you mean everywhere? Including private property, places of work, etc.?

"Gun Free Zones" is a federal law in place. There are some places that have overruled the law (Utah and some portions of Colorado). IMO it should be the other way around. Let the local laws, private land owner, school district determine if they want a "gun Free Zone".ETA:Then I think we maybe able to get a better idea if the shooters pick locations with these zones because of less possible resistance.

 

[ATC1]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and

2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.

People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

CCW permits are done state to state. Florida has over 1 million people with permits (not properly trained IMO) and stand your ground laws. That is a recipe for disaster. You pull your weapon out the life of you or those around you better be in jeopardy. I have been noted that I think there should be similar training and background checks to those in the military or police.

And I agree wholeheartedly. I have very little objection to people with enough training and oversight being allowed to carry a firearm. But it had better be on par with what the police and military have. Which would make it expensive and a serious time suck.Frankly, I think having a concealed weapon permit should be as much of a commitment as being a volunteer firefighter or a member of the National Guard. And our country should celebrate people who are willing to do that, but also rigorously weed out people who shouldn't do that.

That is on the person wanting to carry. However, there are self defense and saftey class instructors that will offer the classes to school personnel for nothing.

 

[timschochet]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

 

[tom22406]

http://www.neontommy.com/news/2012/07/doing-math-gunsDecent article that digs a little deeper into what could be done but I'm sure it will be discounted in a matter of seconds after posting

This was written after the Aurora shootings.

 

[badmojo1006]

Wayne LaPierre : Blah Blah BlahBlah Stealing our guns Blah Blah Blah Insane Blah Blah Blah

And of course he did not take any questions... Coward

 

[Dvorak]

Some of you people seem to think that the NRA owes you an explanation or a solution. Care to explain why? TIA.

I was hoping they would simply represent the wishes of nearly 75% of their membership.

Care to unpack that a bit?

Sure. Polls show 74% of the membership of the NRA support a national database for gun ownership and an end to the private sales loophole. I believe a similar percentage supports a limitation on high capacity magazines.

Could you please provide a link? I am not surprised about the national database, but I am interested in learning more about the polls regarding private sales and magazine capacity limitations. TIA.

I don't remember any surveys and the NRA is not shy about sending me mail.

 

[RCon]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

 

[Henry Ford]

You seem like a guy I would like to sit back and have a few while discussing things without anyone losing their cool. But you can not seem to understand that no one is saying arm all teachers.

Some people are, but I understand that you - and as far as I can tell the other people in this thread - are not. I just think that 1: concealed carry permits are not as tough to get as I would like them to be in all jurisdictions and a lot of morons have them; and

2: open carry by teachers shouldn't be the answer.

People with concealed carry permits do stupid things with their guns all the time. In fact, some idiot using his/her concealed weapon - permitted and legal - in a completely inappropriate way is much, much more likely than a school shooting as we all know. There are a bunch of examples every year of some idiot with a concealed weapon permit shooting someone outside of a bar in an altercation, or thinking he/she is Rambo and following some kid down an alleyway because he "looks suspicious" or almost - or actually - shooting the wrong person because he/she shows up at the scene of something and thinks it's time to spring into action without understanding what's going on. That needs to not happen at an elementary school.

CCW permits are done state to state. Florida has over 1 million people with permits (not properly trained IMO) and stand your ground laws. That is a recipe for disaster. You pull your weapon out the life of you or those around you better be in jeopardy. I have been noted that I think there should be similar training and background checks to those in the military or police.

And I agree wholeheartedly. I have very little objection to people with enough training and oversight being allowed to carry a firearm. But it had better be on par with what the police and military have. Which would make it expensive and a serious time suck.Frankly, I think having a concealed weapon permit should be as much of a commitment as being a volunteer firefighter or a member of the National Guard. And our country should celebrate people who are willing to do that, but also rigorously weed out people who shouldn't do that.

That is on the person wanting to carry. However, there are self defense and saftey class instructors that will offer the classes to school personnel for nothing.

Sure. And I'm all about it. In fact, if proper oversight and such were put in place, I'd imagine that as city or state employees, school personnel could be brought into the fold at police academies, police shooting ranges, get in on training classes with the local police, or be sent to a larger city's police force for training. Which would be helpful if everything else could be hammered out.

 

[Otis]

NRA head Wayne LaPierre crying that its every thing but guns in his press statement

Right on schedule.

 

[timschochet]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

Because outside of law enforcement, I don't want guns around my kids.

 

[moleculo]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

so no one gets shot. duh.

 

[Otis]

Every public school should be a gun free zone.

Why?

For similar reasons that every public school should be a drug free zone, alcohol free zone, smoke free zone, and prostitution free zone.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution.

Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

Yes, the only thing missing from this conclusion - any relevant supporting evidence.

if you can get past the title and the obvious pro-gun slant, there's some pretty compelling stuff in the blog linked earlier.

I read the whole article. I don't find any of the arguments compelling, or even arguments at all to be honest. They are a statistically irrelevant number of cherry picked occurences. Basically, here let me compare every recent mass shooting with a few random instances where someone may or may not have have stopped more people from getting killed. How many times do police intervene in shootings that don't become "mass shootings"? And they all happen in "gun free zones", except when they don't.

 

[TobiasFunke]

70 pages now and it's pretty clear that removing Gun Free Zones would be the most effective way of halting these massacres. Like it or not, there are a lot of firearms out there and this, unfortunately, is the most logical solution.

Even the possibility of a teacher being armed in a school could be enough to deter another Sandy Hook. Whether or not anyone in that particular school was actually carrying. Then maybe this ****er would've shot his mom and then just turned the gun on himself.

Yes, the only thing missing from this conclusion - any relevant supporting evidence.

But he said it was pretty clear!

Yeah there is no evidence, so it really isn't clear. Doesn't mean we should ignore it completely. Because it is a factor when we discuss school safety.

I agree. But one of the first steps towards a productive discussion is for people to stop saying things like "it's pretty clear that X" when it's not at all clear. Nothing here is clear. Every suggestion has a positive and a negative. At the most basic level, the presence of a gun in a certain place almost certainly reduces the risk that another gun will cause harm nearby, but it obviously increases the chance (from zero) that the first gun will cause harm. Both of those seem like common sense to me. That should be the starting point of the debate, and then we can ask what circumstances make the trade-off worth it, and which don't. But we can't even seem to get 99% of the population to agree on those two basic and seemingly obvious statements. It's either "guns kill, let's get rid of them!" or "the only way to stop guns is with more guns!"