***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (5 Viewers)

[Chaos Commish]

Not that it matters to you gun grabbers but I saw on another site that the weapon found in the trunk of his car may not have been a ar15. there is live video of the officer clearing the weapon found in the trunk and it looked like a semi auto shotgun not an ar. in the video the cop is obviously cycling a bolt to clear the weapon, an AR uses a charging handle. It also has a dragunov style stock on it. So if this is true do we ban semi auto shotguns?

Did you miss Feinstein's memo?

 

[Otis]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

 

[Henry Ford]

When you go back to this website, ask one very simple, logical question:

If the gun he used to kill people with was in his trunk, how did it fire so many bullets into people who were not in his trunk at the time?

My understandingwas two handguns. The rifle/weapon was in his trunk. Is this incorrect?

Yes. This is incorrect. Most of the people shot inside the school were shot with the ar15. He killed himself with a handgun.http://www.redstate.com/2012/12/27/setting-the-record-straight-adam-lanza-did-use-the-bushmaster-ar-15/

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

 

[Henry Ford]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

I have an extra rpg launcher you can borroww for next time. Has a little kick, but boy does it do the job.

 

[Apple Jack]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

Hydrogen bomb down?

 

[Mr Two Cents]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

Hydrogen bomb down?

Keep joking while you continue to arm America as never before. You guys are winning America one AR at a time. Feinstein's bill will never pass as written. Just like this budget deal it will not solve the problem and the real problem will not even be seriously looked at. This is what you will get.

A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it carries the implication that another such victory will ultimately lead to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll negates any sense of achievement. Nevertheless, a Pyrrhic victory is seen as a superior result to an outright loss.

 

[Henry Ford]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

Hydrogen bomb down?

Keep joking while you continue to arm America as never before. You guys are winning America one AR at a time. Feinstein's bill will never pass as written. Just like this budget deal it will not solve the problem and the real problem will not even be seriously looked at. This is what you will get.

A Pyrrhic victory is a victory with such a devastating cost that it carries the implication that another such victory will ultimately lead to defeat. Someone who wins a Pyrrhic victory has been victorious in some way; however, the heavy toll negates any sense of achievement. Nevertheless, a Pyrrhic victory is seen as a superior result to an outright loss.

I love that you quoted a definition of Pyrrhic victory as though no one else understands what that means.

 

[timschochet]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

Your problem is that you think the intruder is at your front door. But they may have already broken into your home, in which case ringing the doorbell is a trap to lure you into the kitchen so they can take you out. Your only solution, since you have no firearm, is to keep those steak knives on your person at all times.

 

[timschochet]

Feinsteins proposed bill is not the key to the debate. The key will be what Biden comes up with in the next two weeks.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

In case you missed it:

Americans use firearms for self-defense more than 2.1 million times annually.

No, not even close. Kleck's extrapolations were bogus.

Not even close?Most of the criticism with Kleck's range of 2.1-2.5 million is due to alleged false-positives while ignoring false-negatives. False-negatives as reported by Cook and Ludwig are cases where respondents who actually experience a DGU may have incentives to misreport intentionally (report a false negative) because of concerns about the legality or legitimacy of their gun uses. They may have been carrying the gun illegally at the time or involved in drug dealing or other illicit activity.

Do you believe the 1.46 million reported by Clinton's anti-gun report (Journal of Quantitative Criminology, Vol. 14. No. 2, 1998, page 121) created by Dr.s Philip Cook and Jens Ludwig in which they surveyed respondents about the most recent incident (even if there may have been multiple DGU incidents) for the particular respondent?

Even if you take the 1.46 million as fact from Cook/Ludwig and disregard any multiple DGU occurrences per respondent you are still talking about 4000 DGU's per day or one DGU every 3 minutes.

 

[Disc Shark]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

sign on Otis' neighbor's lawn

 

[Henry Ford]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

sign on Otis' neighbor's lawn

I see your photo editing skills are just as impressive as your debate skills.

 

[timschochet]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

sign on Otis' neighbor's lawn

You guys are so bad at this.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

sign on Otis' neighbor's lawn

I see your photo editing skills are just as impressive as your debate skills.

What you don't believe I am telling the truth that his neighbor really has that sign?

 

[Cookiemonster]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

sign on Otis' neighbor's lawn

You guys are so bad at this.

And yet someone saying they are answering the door with steak knives is supposed to be better "at this"?

 

[Apple Jack]

Can a house be armed?

 

[Henry Ford]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

If you read my posts in this thread, I'm a gun owner. It's a reasonable question -- if your conclusion is based on false premises, and you find that out, does it change your conclusion? Should it? People come in with statements - like his - and say "doesn't this change your mind??" It turns out those statements are false. If their truth should have changed your opponent's mind, shouldn't their falsity have at least some effect on your opinion?And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

 

[Cookiemonster]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

 

[timschochet]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

sign on Otis' neighbor's lawn

You guys are so bad at this.

And yet someone saying they are answering the door with steak knives is supposed to be better "at this"?

Dunno whether he's supposed to be, but he is. His post made me laugh. Your post made me shake my head in sad disgust. It's a terrible joke, and it's not even YOUR joke. Really pathetic.

 

[Disc Shark]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

250 million military-style semiautomatic rifles?

 

[timschochet]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

You're pretty good at math.

 

[Cookiemonster]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

You're pretty good at math.

Hee hee. Billion. OK. So this must change my conclusion since it is based on false premises.

 

[Henry Ford]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

You're pretty good at math.

Hee hee. Billion. OK. So this must change my conclusion since it is based on false premises.

Betting it doesn't."I can't afford to buy you an ice cream, it costs forty billion dollars!"

"It costs two dollars."

"That doesn't change the fact that I can't afford it."

 

[Apple Jack]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

250 million military-style semiautomatic rifles?

Love his math skills.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Doorbell just rang. Grabbing some steak knives before I head out to greet stranger in a UPS uniform. Wish me luck BRB I hope.

sign on Otis' neighbor's lawn

You guys are so bad at this.

And yet someone saying they are answering the door with steak knives is supposed to be better "at this"?

Dunno whether he's supposed to be, but he is. His post made me laugh. Your post made me shake my head in sad disgust. It's a terrible joke, and it's not even YOUR joke. Really pathetic.

I didn't laugh.

 

[Cookiemonster]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

If you read my posts in this thread, I'm a gun owner. It's a reasonable question -- if your conclusion is based on false premises, and you find that out, does it change your conclusion? Should it? People come in with statements - like his - and say "doesn't this change your mind??" It turns out those statements are false. If their truth should have changed your opponent's mind, shouldn't their falsity have at least some effect on your opinion?And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

The "conclusion based on false premises," is what I got blown off for regarding the date of the Hollywood shootout, like Clinton's AWB had anything to do with my conclusions. Still heard the same thing from you. It was all over the CNN feed and others that he was armed with a Sig and Glock pistol and that the AR was in his trunk. Now, many are saying that it was a semi-auto shotgun in the car, and he was armed with the AR and a pistol or revolver. By now, there is so much saturation of misinformation that it's hard to keep up with. Not that I really care what kind of guns he used.

 

[Cookiemonster]

250 million military-style semiautomatic rifles?

You said "all semiautomatic weapons." That included pistols, rifles and shotguns. Now, if you only want military style semi auto rifles... please tell me what differentiates a military style semi auto rifle from a police style semi auto rifle and a civilian style semi auto rifle.

 

[timschochet]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

You're pretty good at math.

Hee hee. Billion. OK. So this must change my conclusion since it is based on false premises.

There aren't 250 million semi-automatic weapons either. In fact, according to this website:http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2011/semi-automatic-firearms-and-the-%E2%80%9Cassaul.aspx

Semi-automatic weapons account for 15% of all guns owned in this country.

 

[Henry Ford]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

If you read my posts in this thread, I'm a gun owner. It's a reasonable question -- if your conclusion is based on false premises, and you find that out, does it change your conclusion? Should it? People come in with statements - like his - and say "doesn't this change your mind??" It turns out those statements are false. If their truth should have changed your opponent's mind, shouldn't their falsity have at least some effect on your opinion?And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

The "conclusion based on false premises," is what I got blown off for regarding the date of the Hollywood shootout, like Clinton's AWB had anything to do with my conclusions. Still heard the same thing from you. It was all over the CNN feed and others that he was armed with a Sig and Glock pistol and that the AR was in his trunk. Now, many are saying that it was a semi-auto shotgun in the car, and he was armed with the AR and a pistol or revolver. By now, there is so much saturation of misinformation that it's hard to keep up with. Not that I really care what kind of guns he used.

Which is fine, but the question remains - if you don't care what kind of guns he used, why are you presenting an argument based on the kind of guns being used? Ifthe AWB doesn't have anything to do with your conclusions, why are you arguing it was based on an incident that it wasn't actually based on? If you don't care about these things, stop arguing about them to show how knowledgeable you are on the subject, especially when it turns out you're not.Also: I never saw anything about his AR15 not being in the school with him on CNN or anywhere other than gun boards and conspiracy websites. Would love links to the other so that I can complain about those sources, too.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Which is fine, but the question remains - if you don't care what kind of guns he used, why are you presenting an argument based on the kind of guns being used? Ifthe AWB doesn't have anything to do with your conclusions, why are you arguing it was based on an incident that it wasn't actually based on?

I was arguing to what most people think of when they hear "assault weapon." Even the politicians putting these bills together often don't know what they're talking about (the shoulder thing that goes up), and a lot of people hear those terms and the first thing that pops into their heads is fully automatic AKs and M16s. As evidenced by the airsoft gun responses a page or two back, many are ready to assign Satanism to benign things like flash hiders and forends with accessory rails and synthetic stocks. Most non-hardcore gun people have been led to believe many illegitimate things about guns. I wanted to make the point that even the evil guns are not nearly what people make them out to be.

 

[Henry Ford]

Which is fine, but the question remains - if you don't care what kind of guns he used, why are you presenting an argument based on the kind of guns being used? Ifthe AWB doesn't have anything to do with your conclusions, why are you arguing it was based on an incident that it wasn't actually based on?

I was arguing to what most people think of when they hear "assault weapon." Even the politicians putting these bills together often don't know what they're talking about (the shoulder thing that goes up), and a lot of people hear those terms and the first thing that pops into their heads is fully automatic AKs and M16s. As evidenced by the airsoft gun responses a page or two back, many are ready to assign Satanism to benign things like flash hiders and forends with accessory rails and synthetic stocks. Most non-hardcore gun people have been led to believe many illegitimate things about guns. I wanted to make the point that even the evil guns are not nearly what people make them out to be.

This paragraph is a much better start on that than some made-up story about the assault weapons ban and a bank robbery.

 

[Apple Jack]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You don't say. Care to unwrap this a bit? Tell me more about how the US is going to afford a cost + 10% gun buyback. At LEAST 250 million guns in this country averaging $500. 125 TRILLION you say?

You're pretty good at math.

Hee hee. Billion. OK. So this must change my conclusion since it is based on false premises.

There aren't 250 million semi-automatic weapons either. In fact, according to this website:http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-sheets/2011/semi-automatic-firearms-and-the-%E2%80%9Cassaul.aspx

Semi-automatic weapons account for 15% of all guns owned in this country.

So that's what 376 trillion guns?

 

[boots11234]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

If you read my posts in this thread, I'm a gun owner. It's a reasonable question -- if your conclusion is based on false premises, and you find that out, does it change your conclusion? Should it? People come in with statements - like his - and say "doesn't this change your mind??" It turns out those statements are false. If their truth should have changed your opponent's mind, shouldn't their falsity have at least some effect on your opinion?And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

The "conclusion based on false premises," is what I got blown off for regarding the date of the Hollywood shootout, like Clinton's AWB had anything to do with my conclusions. Still heard the same thing from you. It was all over the CNN feed and others that he was armed with a Sig and Glock pistol and that the AR was in his trunk. Now, many are saying that it was a semi-auto shotgun in the car, and he was armed with the AR and a pistol or revolver. By now, there is so much saturation of misinformation that it's hard to keep up with. Not that I really care what kind of guns he used.

Which is fine, but the question remains - if you don't care what kind of guns he used, why are you presenting an argument based on the kind of guns being used? Ifthe AWB doesn't have anything to do with your conclusions, why are you arguing it was based on an incident that it wasn't actually based on? If you don't care about these things, stop arguing about them to show how knowledgeable you are on the subject, especially when it turns out you're not.Also: I never saw anything about his AR15 not being in the school with him on CNN or anywhere other than gun boards and conspiracy websites. Would love links to the other so that I can complain about those sources, too.

Washington post"He had two semiautomatic pistols and a .223-caliber rifle, law enforcement officials said. He apparently used only the handguns, which were later found in the school. The rifle was found in the vehicle."

CNN

Three weapons were recovered from the school: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and a Glock and a Sig Sauer found with Lanza's body, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said. The weapons were legally purchased by Lanza's mother, the official said.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

If you read my posts in this thread, I'm a gun owner. It's a reasonable question -- if your conclusion is based on false premises, and you find that out, does it change your conclusion? Should it? People come in with statements - like his - and say "doesn't this change your mind??" It turns out those statements are false. If their truth should have changed your opponent's mind, shouldn't their falsity have at least some effect on your opinion?And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

The "conclusion based on false premises," is what I got blown off for regarding the date of the Hollywood shootout, like Clinton's AWB had anything to do with my conclusions. Still heard the same thing from you. It was all over the CNN feed and others that he was armed with a Sig and Glock pistol and that the AR was in his trunk. Now, many are saying that it was a semi-auto shotgun in the car, and he was armed with the AR and a pistol or revolver. By now, there is so much saturation of misinformation that it's hard to keep up with. Not that I really care what kind of guns he used.

Which is fine, but the question remains - if you don't care what kind of guns he used, why are you presenting an argument based on the kind of guns being used? Ifthe AWB doesn't have anything to do with your conclusions, why are you arguing it was based on an incident that it wasn't actually based on? If you don't care about these things, stop arguing about them to show how knowledgeable you are on the subject, especially when it turns out you're not.Also: I never saw anything about his AR15 not being in the school with him on CNN or anywhere other than gun boards and conspiracy websites. Would love links to the other so that I can complain about those sources, too.

Washington post"He had two semiautomatic pistols and a .223-caliber rifle, law enforcement officials said. He apparently used only the handguns, which were later found in the school. The rifle was found in the vehicle."

CNN

Three weapons were recovered from the school: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and a Glock and a Sig Sauer found with Lanza's body, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said. The weapons were legally purchased by Lanza's mother, the official said.

Crow meet Henry Ford

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Why are the anti-gun-nuts (see what I did there?) paying so much attention to 1 data point?

 

[Henry Ford]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

If you read my posts in this thread, I'm a gun owner. It's a reasonable question -- if your conclusion is based on false premises, and you find that out, does it change your conclusion? Should it? People come in with statements - like his - and say "doesn't this change your mind??" It turns out those statements are false. If their truth should have changed your opponent's mind, shouldn't their falsity have at least some effect on your opinion?And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

The "conclusion based on false premises," is what I got blown off for regarding the date of the Hollywood shootout, like Clinton's AWB had anything to do with my conclusions. Still heard the same thing from you. It was all over the CNN feed and others that he was armed with a Sig and Glock pistol and that the AR was in his trunk. Now, many are saying that it was a semi-auto shotgun in the car, and he was armed with the AR and a pistol or revolver. By now, there is so much saturation of misinformation that it's hard to keep up with. Not that I really care what kind of guns he used.

Which is fine, but the question remains - if you don't care what kind of guns he used, why are you presenting an argument based on the kind of guns being used? Ifthe AWB doesn't have anything to do with your conclusions, why are you arguing it was based on an incident that it wasn't actually based on? If you don't care about these things, stop arguing about them to show how knowledgeable you are on the subject, especially when it turns out you're not.Also: I never saw anything about his AR15 not being in the school with him on CNN or anywhere other than gun boards and conspiracy websites. Would love links to the other so that I can complain about those sources, too.

Washington post"He had two semiautomatic pistols and a .223-caliber rifle, law enforcement officials said. He apparently used only the handguns, which were later found in the school. The rifle was found in the vehicle."

CNN

Three weapons were recovered from the school: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and a Glock and a Sig Sauer found with Lanza's body, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said. The weapons were legally purchased by Lanza's mother, the official said.

Crow meet Henry Ford

Why am I eating crow? I asked for those links in order to ##### about any media company which was reporting this.Find me one where the media is saying that it is a semiauto shotgun , not an ar15, and I'll be happy to eat crow. Actual media, not 'ar15newsandreports.tv'

 

[Henry Ford]

Why are the anti-gun-nuts (see what I did there?) paying so much attention to 1 data point?

Which one? I see lots of people talking about lots of things in here. Is there some particular thing you want to talk about? Maybe you could find another definition of a common term and post it to explain it to all of us.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

So, now that your premise of a semi auto shotgun in his trunk being the basis of all of this is shown to be completely false, does this change your opinion? Or, like most, do you change your thinking to fit your predetermined conclusion?

Hmm. Sounds familiar. Is this your canned response whenever someone (a gun nut) gets a duck out of line? Can we attribute his misinformation to your gun-bashing media's agenda to start spewing misinformation as soon as possible without the responsibility to get their facts straight first?

If you read my posts in this thread, I'm a gun owner. It's a reasonable question -- if your conclusion is based on false premises, and you find that out, does it change your conclusion? Should it? People come in with statements - like his - and say "doesn't this change your mind??" It turns out those statements are false. If their truth should have changed your opponent's mind, shouldn't their falsity have at least some effect on your opinion?And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

The "conclusion based on false premises," is what I got blown off for regarding the date of the Hollywood shootout, like Clinton's AWB had anything to do with my conclusions. Still heard the same thing from you. It was all over the CNN feed and others that he was armed with a Sig and Glock pistol and that the AR was in his trunk. Now, many are saying that it was a semi-auto shotgun in the car, and he was armed with the AR and a pistol or revolver. By now, there is so much saturation of misinformation that it's hard to keep up with. Not that I really care what kind of guns he used.

Which is fine, but the question remains - if you don't care what kind of guns he used, why are you presenting an argument based on the kind of guns being used? Ifthe AWB doesn't have anything to do with your conclusions, why are you arguing it was based on an incident that it wasn't actually based on? If you don't care about these things, stop arguing about them to show how knowledgeable you are on the subject, especially when it turns out you're not.Also: I never saw anything about his AR15 not being in the school with him on CNN or anywhere other than gun boards and conspiracy websites. Would love links to the other so that I can complain about those sources, too.

Washington post"He had two semiautomatic pistols and a .223-caliber rifle, law enforcement officials said. He apparently used only the handguns, which were later found in the school. The rifle was found in the vehicle."

CNN

Three weapons were recovered from the school: a semi-automatic .223 Bushmaster found in a car in the school parking lot, and a Glock and a Sig Sauer found with Lanza's body, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said. The weapons were legally purchased by Lanza's mother, the official said.

Crow meet Henry Ford

Why am I eating crow? I asked for those links in order to ##### about any media company which was reporting this.Find me one where the media is saying that it is a semiauto shotgun , not an ar15, and I'll be happy to eat crow. Actual media, not 'ar15newsandreports.tv'

You didn't write this?

And no, you can't attribute his misinformation to the media in this instance. It's the ar15 message boards and conspiracy theory boards that are spewing the misinformation he's using.

Your question about the shotgun is vague, but CNN does state:

(CNN) -- Adam Lanza brought three weapons inside Sandy Hook Elementary school on December 14 and left a fourth in his car, police said. Those weapons were a Bushmaster AR-15 rifle and two handguns -- a Glock 10 mm and a Sig Sauer 9 mm.

In the car he left a shotgun, about which police have offered no details. Lanza used one of the handguns to take his own life, although police haven't said whether the gun was the Glock or the Sig Sauer.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/18/us/connecticut-lanza-guns/index.htmlFurthermore if you read the CNN article posted by Boots and had a knowledge of guns and witness them pulling out a shotgun from his trunk, don't you think it is easy to draw the same conclusion that you are complaining about here?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Why are the anti-gun-nuts (see what I did there?) paying so much attention to 1 data point?

Which one? I see lots of people talking about lots of things in here. Is there some particular thing you want to talk about? Maybe you could find another definition of a common term and post it to explain it to all of us.

Top 5 posters in this thread:298 Otis 292 timschochet 239 ATC1 187 Henry Ford 154 Apple Jack Thread started on 12/14/12, 98 pages longSandy Hook Elementary School shooting took place on 12/14/12I see 4 people sharing the same POV repeatedly focusing on 1 event 2 weeks later.What common term did I post are you talking about, "Pyrrhic victory"?

 

[Slingblade]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

You're crazier than the guy that answers the door with a gun in his hand.

 

[Mr Two Cents]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

Why?

 

[Todd Andrews]

As a lifelong gun owner (as an adult, obviously), I am embarrassed by the silliness other gun owners seem to accept as logical. Banning military or police style semi auto rifles and mod kits and high capacity magazines and closing the gun show loophole are no brainers and increased mental health funding and better parenting are obviously key components, as well. I would be fine with state level mandatory licensing and testing of guns, too. And that is coming from someone who is never giving up his gun.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

All semiautomatic weapons should be banned and confiscated (bought back at cost + 10% from the reasonable gun owners).

Why?

Because he believes criminals will honestly return their firearms alongside law abiding citizens.

 

[Henry Ford]

Why are the anti-gun-nuts (see what I did there?) paying so much attention to 1 data point?

Which one? I see lots of people talking about lots of things in here. Is there some particular thing you want to talk about? Maybe you could find another definition of a common term and post it to explain it to all of us.

Top 5 posters in this thread:298 Otis 292 timschochet 239 ATC1 187 Henry Ford 154 Apple Jack Thread started on 12/14/12, 98 pages longSandy Hook Elementary School shooting took place on 12/14/12I see 4 people sharing the same POV repeatedly focusing on 1 event 2 weeks later.What common term did I post are you talking about, "Pyrrhic victory"?

You think all those posters have the same POV? And that we are all focused on one event?

 

[Apple Jack]

For the record, i stopped talking about sandy hook a couple weeks ago and have been strictly mocking people since. Just sayin.

 

[Cookiemonster]

There aren't 250 million semi-automatic weapons either. In fact, according to this website:

http://www.nraila.or...0%9Cassaul.aspx

Semi-automatic weapons account for 15% of all guns owned in this country.

I can't find any real data regarding the types of guns owned by Joe Public, but from what I've seen in the gun stores and people I know that own guns, let me give this a shot. I understand that all of this is off the top of my head, and can easily be disputed to be way too low or way too high. I'm shooting (pun intended) for middle ground here.1st, lets consider that a heavily regulated country like Germany has 7 million registered firearms, yet is estimated to have 17 million unregistered firearms leads me to believe that the 250-300 million gun count, by civilians, in the US is very underestimated. 2nd, if pistols account for roughly 40% of all firearms and the majority of pistols are semi-auto, I'd say it's safe to say semi-auto pistols alone account for 15%. Even if you went with the low-end estimation of 30% off US guns being pistol and only 50% of those being semi-auto, the 15% would be covered by only pistols. Semi-auto rifles have surged in popularity for decades, and semi-auto shotguns are getting much more affordable and available in the last 5 years too. So, now that I've had a cup of coffee and am hopefully a little better at math, let's go with only 250 million guns and low estimates for each type...

only 30% (pistols) = 75 miliion x 50% semi auto = 37,500,000

70% rifles & shotguns = 175 million x 25% semi auto = 43,750,000

37,500,000 plus

43,750,000 equals

81,250,000 semi auto guns given the minimum numbers and not accounting for military, police, and illegal / hidden guns equates to 32.5%. If you want to include police guns, that number could go way up, since the majority of police weapons are semi-auto.

Found a good laugh for all of us. Here.

 

[Cookiemonster]

Why are the anti-gun-nuts (see what I did there?) paying so much attention to 1 data point?

It is the FFA.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

There aren't 250 million semi-automatic weapons either. In fact, according to this website:

http://www.nraila.or...0%9Cassaul.aspx

Semi-automatic weapons account for 15% of all guns owned in this country.

I can't find any real data regarding the types of guns owned by Joe Public, but from what I've seen in the gun stores and people I know that own guns, let me give this a shot. I understand that all of this is off the top of my head, and can easily be disputed to be way too low or way too high. I'm shooting (pun intended) for middle ground here.1st, lets consider that a heavily regulated country like Germany has 7 million registered firearms, yet is estimated to have 17 million unregistered firearms leads me to believe that the 250-300 million gun count in the US is very underestimated. 2nd, if pistols account for roughly 40% of all firearms and the majority of pistols are semi-auto, I'd say it's safe to say semi-auto pistols alone account for 15%. Even if you went with the low-end estimation of 30% off US guns being pistol and only 50% of those being semi-auto, the 15% would be covered by only pistols. Semi-auto rifles have surged in popularity for decades, and semi-auto shotguns are getting much more affordable and available in the last 5 years too. So, now that I've had a cup of coffee and am hopefully a little better at math, let's go with only 250 million guns and low estimates for each type...

only 30% (pistols) = 75 miliion x 50% semi auto = 37,500,000

70% rifles & shotguns = 175 million x 25% semi auto = 43,750,000

37,500,000 plus

43,750,000 equals

81,250,000 semi auto guns given the minimum numbers and not accounting for military, police, and illegal / hidden guns equates to 32.5%. If you want to include police guns, that number could go way up, since the majority of police weapons are semi-auto.

Found a good laugh for all of us. Here.

I bet if you were able to get stats for guns sold in 2012 or even the last few years you would find a helluva lot more than 15% were semiautomatic. I would place more weight on recent gun sales as being more representative of active guns "in circulation" instead of segmenting all guns ever bought in the history of the US where a large percentage of those belong to multi-gun owners in their collection.

Smith & Wesson, which has a Rochester barrel-making facility and is one of the country's largest firearms manufacturers, reported in its most recent financial statement that hunting rifle sales were down nearly 46 percent, but "sales of all other firearms, specifically handguns and tactical rifles, were $70.7 million, a $23.8 million or 51 percent increase over the same quarter last fiscal year."

http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090315-NEWS-903150345