***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (6 Viewers)

[Chaka]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?

That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

If you can't keep good enough track of your killing machines to the point where you let other people take them from you, I'm not sure you're responsible enough to own a killing machine.

Anything else in Amendments 1-8 of the US Constitution that if we're not "responsible" enough with we should be denied?

Where do you stand on Miranda rights, due process and illegal search and seizure for Dzookhar Tsarnaev?

 

[eurotrashman]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?

That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

If you can't keep good enough track of your killing machines to the point where you let other people take them from you, I'm not sure you're responsible enough to own a killing machine.

Anything else in Amendments 1-8 of the US Constitution that if we're not "responsible" enough with we should be denied?

Seeing how you can kill 26 kids with one in less than a few minutes, i'm guess.......maybe?

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?

That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

Maybe. Maybe not. There are a lot of factors to consider. But knowing where and when a gun went from a responsible owner to a criminal can only help criminal investigations.

Man, I tell you what, I live in New Orleans and the cops & DA's cannot even keep up with the murders and crimes that take place much less tracking down who owned what gun and when and how it got misplaced and then entering the original gun onwers as "irresponsible" persons who should be blacklisted from futrue gun purchases.

This assumes the registration number hasn't been shaved or filed off in the first place.

And this also assumes the cops are not crooked, but that's another story.

We need cops, lots and lots of cops, and even more DA's. If the goal is to save lives I honestly think sending us back some of our tax money (and it is ours) in form of about 100% more cops and DA's and investigators (plus some more federal and local oversight) would save a whole lot more lives in New Orleans and that would happen almost immediately, and I am guessing the same is true in many of our high murder rate cities.

Meanwhile what I hear is an almost certain guarantee that honest, decent, property owning and renting people and families who buy guns tio protect themselves will probably find it much more difficult to do so.

In our area, sheriffs actually sell, give away on a personal basis and personally keep seized guns. That should give you an idea how screwed up it is.

Newtown, which drove all this, was beyond horror, but I looke d it up. There were 168 deaths by gun of children ages 5-14 in 2009 and I take it something similar has happened 2010-2012. We just buried a 5 year old in NO killed in a drive by, she was a birthday party on Simon Bolivar. I have no idea how any of this would have helped her. There is no gun found, people are too frightened to testify, the DA's are overwhelmed and no one believes the cops in court without addituinal witnesses.

So 168 deaths of children by guns in one year, and that includes accidental deaths, nationally. - We typically have around 200 murders by gun in NO every year (that we know of, assuming the NOPD hasn't tweaked the numbers).

I honestly don't know why people can't see this but maybe it has something to do with proximity with what's going on.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

If I am reading this correctly, it is not enough for you that a gun owner locks the door to his home when he goes to work in the morning if his gun is not hidden in a secret impenetrable safe? Plus you assume all stolen guns are from responsible gun owners, I bet there are other targets with a much larger number of weapons than Joe Six pack, but I'll let you dig up those stats, I've done enough homework for you in this thread.

You just said they were stolen, so now you want to victimize the people that legally purchased the weapon, how could that be any more clear? It's like talking to a wall. What part of witch hunt do you not understand?

The fact that, according to your numbers, this happens 314,000 times/year then yes I think there is a big problem with owners irresponsibly storing their weapons.

And so far you have done enough homework except for actually reading your homework.

So your big push for a national gun registry is to fill up the courts with prosecutions of civilians that could not afford a gun safe instead of using those resources to fix the problem to go after the criminals? You make it sound like the criminals are only partially at fault for committing the crime and you want to focus on attacking the people they stole the weapons from.

I have to ask, do you sell gun safes for a living?

I'm not saying its a bad thing to use a gun safe, I'm just pointing out how ridiculous you sound. You do realize the majority of gun crime occurs in poor neighborhoods? All you are doing is increasing the barrier to gun ownership so people can no longer protect themselves or their families. Try fixing the problem instead of introducing red tape that will only further the divide.

 

[ATC1]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?

That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?

That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

If you can't keep good enough track of your killing machines to the point where you let other people take them from you, I'm not sure you're responsible enough to own a killing machine.

It was stolen out of my car because I had to walk on campus in a gun free zone.

 

[timschochet]

So when you factor in all of these stolen weapons, all of the guns that are untraceable for the reasons above (and I assume most criminals remove the serial number), the fact that juvenile offenders were more than twice as likely to have a semiautomatic weapon at a crime scene than a adult offender (hint: they didn't legally acquire it) and the expected low compliance resulting from an attempted national registry and you are left with butkus. A national gun registry turns into a giant witch hunt, and an expensive one at that while doing nothing to curb gun violence.

This is just the height of illogical thinking. So much so that I have to wonder if it isn't deliberate.

How many thousands of hit and runs are there every year? Yet, according to this logic, we shouldn't force people to register their cars or have license plates, because (a) the people that hit and run are going to do it anyhow (b) it's therefore an added unnecessary burden on law abiding car owners, and © who knows? Someday the government might decide to seize all cars.

How many thousands of rapes are there every year in which the rapist gets away scot free? Yet, according to this logic, we shouldn't even investigate rapes; it's a waste of money because they'll never catch them anyhow, and it's a burden on law-abiding citizens.

You guys can produce all of the numbers you want. They mean absolutely nothing. I guarantee you that if we had a national database of all legally owned firearms in this country, gun crime would go down significantly. Period. Even having unified background checks WITHOUT the database, which is all the latest gun proposal tried to do, would cause a decrease in crime. But even that you guys were against, because you're still afraid of the big bad government. You can make all the reasonable sounding arguments you want, and produce all of the meaningless statistics you want, but it still in the end comes down to your paranoia.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

How many cars are stolen to purposefully commit hit and runs? How many cars are driven on the road unregistered?

How difficult would it be to drive an unregistered vehicle without being noticed?

yeah, AWESOME comparison there, don't let me stop you from making absurd comparisons

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Any thread that Carolina Hustler is in, take the opposite position. He's that dumb. This is my advice.

Im kinda glad his idiocy is less on display in the shark pool, because he banters in the ffa more nowadays.

The 2 of you specificly have taken this tact on many occasions.. You are on the opposite side of the arguement, so fling insults rather than making points to back your position..

Especially football dummy.. If you're looking for "dumb", you have to go no further than reading your own posts.. Foolishness has found it's way through your keyboard MANY times in this thread alone..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

How does this prevent bad guys from getting guns?

 

[mad sweeney]

Any thread that Carolina Hustler is in, take the opposite position. He's that dumb. This is my advice.

Im kinda glad his idiocy is less on display in the shark pool, because he banters in the ffa more nowadays.

The 2 of you specificly have taken this tact on many occasions.. You are on the opposite side of the arguement, so fling insults rather than making points to back your position..

Especially football dummy.. If you're looking for "dumb", you have to go no further than reading your own posts.. Foolishness has found it's way through your keyboard MANY times in this thread alone..

Plus another instance of talking trash to people for calling names, followed by.... calling them names.

I think they hit the nail right on the head homie.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

Thats because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system, and it prohibits the registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

I wouldn't oppose a national registration if I felt like it would do any good and not just be a waste of time and money. What benefit do you actually think the federal gov. will get out of having a registry if you are not going to limit the person too how many they can have?

So that if a gun is used in a crime, we can trace it back to it's owner.

So, you have to assume that the gun is left at the scene of the crime, that it was not stolen, or that it was even registered. How will this reduce the amount of gun violence?

My goal is to eliminate all guns that are not registered. What we want to do is make it much more difficult for the bad guys to get guns. The only way I can see to do this is to register all guns and create a national database.

I don't see how we can't do this with a gun ownership license. You have a gun, you better have a license or the gun is confiscated and you go to jail. Requirement to get a license? A hunting license for long guns. Saftey and self defense course for protection gun.

that's all fine. But if a crime is committed with a gun, then we should be able to trace the gun back to its most recent legal owner. How to do this without a national database?

Assuming it's most recent owner registered it.. From what I understand, in other countries where registry had been enacted, getting the gun owners to follow that rule has been a big problem. This only creates more law breakers, and currently the gun laws being broken aren't being enforced properly and effectively anyways.. What makes you think it will be any different here, with this proposal?

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#detroit-mich--the-most-segregated-city-in-america-detroits-inner-city-is-almost-exclusively-black-except-for-a-small-hispanic-corner-in-the-southwest-called-mexicantown-the-suburbs-like-grosse-pointe-dearborn-and-ferndale-are-heavily-white-21]Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#chicago-ill--north-side-neighborhoods-like-edgewater-and-the-gold-coast-are-heavily-white-black-people-live-on-the-west-and-south-sides-hispanics-live-in-southwest-and-northwest-corners-of-the-city-17]Chicago: #5 for segregation

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#philadelphia-pa--north-and-west-philadelphia-remain-stayed-heavily-black-with-a-pocket-of-hispanics-white-people-stick-to-south-and-northeast-philly-and-the-suburbs-16]Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#baltimore-md--black-people-live-mostly-in-the-inner-city-and-in-the-western-suburbs-7]Baltimore

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#washington-dc--white-people-have-gentrified-much-of-downtown-dc-pushing-black-people-to-outer-southeast-northeast-anacostia-and-the-maryland-suburbs-6]Washington D.C.

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#new-orleans-la--hurricane-katrina-led-to-a-major-decline-in-segregation-many-wards-remain-highly-segregated-5]New Orleans

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#st-louis-mo--black-people-live-mostly-on-the-north-side-of-the-city-extending-into-the-suburbs-13]St. Louis

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#memphis-tenn--black-people-live-in-the-inner-city-and-other-segregated-neighborhoods-3]Memphis, TN

http://www.businessinsider.com/most-segregated-cities-census-maps-2013-4#miami-fla--black-people-live-mainly-in-the-northern-inner-city-little-haiti-and-wynwood-hispanics-in-the-south-little-havana-west-miami-coral-way-and-west-brownsville-15]Miami, FL

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Chaka, on 26 Apr 2013 - 16:33, said:

SaintsInDome2006, on 26 Apr 2013 - 15:40, said:

Chaka, on 26 Apr 2013 - 15:36, said:

5 digit know nothing, on 26 Apr 2013 - 14:12, said:

eurotrashman, on 26 Apr 2013 - 14:05, said:

5 digit know nothing, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:55, said:

timschochet, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:51, said:

5 digit know nothing, on 26 Apr 2013 - 13:44, said:

FBI: The NICS is not to be used to establish a federal firearm registry; information about an inquiry resulting in an allowed transfer is destroyed in accordance with NICS regulations.

Don't like the 24 hour NCIS law to destroy all identifying information so as to prevent a federal firearm registry from being built? Keep blaming the NRA for pointing this out as it was outlined in the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act.

That’s because section 103(i) of the Brady Act specifically bars federal agencies from retaining “any record or portion thereof generated by the [NICS] system,” and it prohibits the “registration of firearms, firearm owners, or firearm transactions” of those who pass the background check.

Personally I don't care whether it's Brady or the NRA to blame. Not having a federal firearm registry is a bad idea. We should change the laws and have one.

The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take"

Wow...can you be any more shortsighted????

It's true, it has never worked in any country. It is bureaucratic bull#### that costs an incredible amount of money to maintain for no results, all it does is turn previously innocent civilians into criminals when they move and they don't fill out the proper paperwork, or they don't comply to begin with which typically happens in every country that tries to enact a national gun registry. The only thing certain in life is death and taxes. The only thing certain with a national gun registry is confiscations, fines and taxes.

IIRC you are of the opinion that most guns used in street crimes are stolen and not sold black market style by FFL holders or through straw purchases. If that is the case doesn't it concern you that so many gun owners are so irresponsible as to not know how to properly keep, maintain and protect their firearm?That so many gun owners let their guns fall into the hands of criminals has to concern you. I would like to know who these people are and put them on the list of people who would not pass background checks, regardless whether the check itself is destroyed in 24 hours.

And crying "paperwork" hassles is a pretty lame excuse. If you can't handle some paperwork I don't want you handling a firearm.

So basically now if your gun is stolen you can never own one again?That's fair.

Probably wouldn't help the passage of any gun control law that's for sure.

Maybe. Maybe not. There are a lot of factors to consider. But knowing where and when a gun went from a responsible owner to a criminal can only help criminal investigations.

Wouldn't you first have to have the gun used in the crime in order to do this, with serial numbers intact.. I do agree, if you have the criminals weapon, but don't have the criminal (rather than having the accused and not the weapon he likely disposed of), if the criminal actually purchased (not stole) the weapon from the last owner who actually registered it, and the last person who registered it is keeping taps on said criminal, you'd have some helpful information in catching the criminal.

I don't think that would be the average situation.. Probably not even close..

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4...L1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx#.UXq2bANcqXE.facebookhttp://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx#.UXq2bANcqXE.facebook

Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store
SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."

Dozens of other shoppers, who too could have become victims, are also thankful for the gun carrying man. And many, like Danylle Julian, are still in shock from the experience. "Scary actually. Really scary. Five minutes before I walk out to my car. It could have been me."

Police say right now they have no idea what caused the suspect to go on the dangerous rampage. (We will update as soon as we learn new information.)

So far, police have not released the names of the suspect, the victims or the man who pulled the gun.

 

[Chaka]

I wonder if some of these guys would defend the other Constitutional amendments with as much zeal as they do the 2nd. I doubt it.

I hate to think where they fall on the Patriot Act as well.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I wonder if some of these guys would defend the other Constitutional amendments with as much zeal as they do the 2nd. I doubt it.

I hate to think where they fall on the Patriot Act as well.

Would I be correct in assuming you support/agree with the patriot act?

 

[tommyboy]

I wonder if some of these guys would defend the other Constitutional amendments with as much zeal as they do the 2nd. I doubt it. I hate to think where they fall on the Patriot Act as well.

I cant stand it

 

[timschochet]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

 

[Chaka]

I wonder if some of these guys would defend the other Constitutional amendments with as much zeal as they do the 2nd. I doubt it.

I hate to think where they fall on the Patriot Act as well.

Would I be correct in assuming you support/agree with the patriot act?

Can't answer now. Don't want to jade my audience.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4...L1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx#.UXq2bANcqXE.facebookhttp://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/bios/story/conceal-and-carry-stabbing-salt-lake-city-smiths/NDNrL1gxeE2rsRhrWCM9dQ.cspx#.UXq2bANcqXE.facebook

Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at Salt Lake grocery store
SALT LAKE CITY (ABC 4 News) - A citizen with a gun stopped a knife wielding man as he began stabbing people Thursday evening at the downtown Salt Lake City Smith's store.

Police say the suspect purchased a knife inside the store and then turned it into a weapon. Smith's employee Dorothy Espinoza says, "He pulled it out and stood outside the Smiths in the foyer. And just started stabbing people and yelling you killed my people. You killed my people."

Espinoza says, the knife wielding man seriously injured two people. "There is blood all over. One got stabbed in the stomach and got stabbed in the head and held his hands and got stabbed all over the arms."

Then, before the suspect could find another victim - a citizen with a gun stopped the madness. "A guy pulled gun on him and told him to drop his weapon or he would shoot him. So, he dropped his weapon and the people from Smith's grabbed him."

By the time officers arrived the suspect had been subdued by employees and shoppers. Police had high praise for gun carrying man who ended the hysteria. Lt. Brian Purvis said, "This was a volatile situation that could have gotten worse. We can only assume from what we saw it could have gotten worse. He was definitely in the right place at the right time."

Dozens of other shoppers, who too could have become victims, are also thankful for the gun carrying man. And many, like Danylle Julian, are still in shock from the experience. "Scary actually. Really scary. Five minutes before I walk out to my car. It could have been me."

Police say right now they have no idea what caused the suspect to go on the dangerous rampage. (We will update as soon as we learn new information.)

So far, police have not released the names of the suspect, the victims or the man who pulled the gun.

If only he would have been forced to register that knife... This could have all been avoided...

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Any thread that Carolina Hustler is in, take the opposite position. He's that dumb. This is my advice.

Im kinda glad his idiocy is less on display in the shark pool, because he banters in the ffa more nowadays.

The 2 of you specificly have taken this tact on many occasions.. You are on the opposite side of the arguement, so fling insults rather than making points to back your position..

Especially football dummy.. If you're looking for "dumb", you have to go no further than reading your own posts.. Foolishness has found it's way through your keyboard MANY times in this thread alone..

I'm not on the opposite side of the argument though.

I believe that guns should stay fully legal.

I am, however, on the side that understands guns are ####### incredibly dangerous and certainly increase the amount of people getting killed. That is after all, what they are specifically designed to do.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'm not on the opposite side of the argument though.

I believe that guns should stay fully legal.

I am, however, on the side that understands guns are ####### incredibly dangerous and certainly increase the amount of people getting killed. That is after all, what they are specifically designed to do.

Where do you stand then on the proposed laws and current topic? I don't think you've clearly stated your position in this post..

"assault type weapons"

registration

background checks

limiting ammo capacity

It doesn't sound like we are on the same side of the argument

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'm not on the opposite side of the argument though.

I believe that guns should stay fully legal.

I am, however, on the side that understands guns are ####### incredibly dangerous and certainly increase the amount of people getting killed. That is after all, what they are specifically designed to do.

Where do you stand then on the proposed laws and current topic? I don't think you've clearly stated your position in this post..

"assault type weapons"

registration

background checks

limiting ammo capacity

It doesn't sound like we are on the same side of the argument

Against most of that.

Having gun registration is fine, however.

 

[Jobber]

I wonder if some of these guys would defend the other Constitutional amendments with as much zeal as they do the 2nd. I doubt it. I hate to think where they fall on the Patriot Act as well.

I cant stand it

Same here. And I suspect the vast majority of gun owners in this thread would agree. Goes to show you how much Chaka misunderstands pretty much...everything.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

I'm suggesting people start looking at the real cause of violent crime. HINT: It has nothing to do with the availability of guns. Guns don't make people kill people. Fix the segregation problem, fix the income inequality in these areas and crime should drop by bucketloads.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

I'm suggesting people start looking at the real cause of violent crime. HINT: It has nothing to do with the availability of guns. Guns don't make people kill people. Fix the segregation problem, fix the income inequality in these areas and crime should drop by bucketloads.

Just makes it way ####### easier.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

I'm suggesting people start looking at the real cause of violent crime. HINT: It has nothing to do with the availability of guns. Guns don't make people kill people. Fix the segregation problem, fix the income inequality in these areas and crime should drop by bucketloads.

Just makes it way ####### easier.

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

Cities with the Highest Rates of Gun-Related Homicides (per 100,000 people)
Rank City City Rate
1 New Orleans 62.1
2 Detroit 35.9
3 Baltimore 29.7
4 Oakland, CA 26.6
5 Newark 25.4
6 St. Louis 24.1
7 Miami 23.7
8 Richmond 23.1
9 Philadelphia 20
10 Washington, D.C. 19

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

Ill say it right to their face, 'cause it true.

Even for them, it would make a moment of conflict much much much easier to kill someone. And if a gun is present its much much much more likely.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

Ill say it right to their face, 'cause it true.

Even for them, it would make a moment of conflict much much much easier to kill someone. And if a gun is present its much much much more likely.

Well you are dead wrong, it is a very small percentage of gun owners that kill another human being and you are obtuse to assume it has to do more with the weapon of choice then the person that pulls the trigger. By your logic the gun owner population should be dwindling since it is so easy for them to end confrontation by killing anyone that disagrees with them.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

From that study....

My colleagues and I did, however, find gun deaths to be higher in states with higher levels of poverty and lower incomes, as well as in red states and those with more blue-collar working class economies. Conversely, we found gun deaths to be less likely in states with more college graduates and stronger knowledge-based economies.

More hardships + less educations is going to lead to more conflicts. More guns in those conflicts will lead to more gun violence.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

Ill say it right to their face, 'cause it true.

Even for them, it would make a moment of conflict much much much easier to kill someone. And if a gun is present its much much much more likely.

Well you are dead wrong, it is a very small percentage of gun owners that kill another human being and you are obtuse to assume it has to do more with the weapon of choice then the person that pulls the trigger. By your logic the gun owner population should be dwindling since it is so easy for them to end confrontation by killing anyone that disagrees with them.

So you think all the people that commit homicide with the ease and indiscretion of a gun... would also simply beat a man to death with his bare hands if he found himself in a conflict?

Or we would remotely see the same amount of homicides if they had use a crowbar, nightstick or baseball bat?

I sincerely doubt you espouse such a notion.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

Ill say it right to their face, 'cause it true.

Even for them, it would make a moment of conflict much much much easier to kill someone. And if a gun is present its much much much more likely.

Well you are dead wrong, it is a very small percentage of gun owners that kill another human being and you are obtuse to assume it has to do more with the weapon of choice then the person that pulls the trigger. By your logic the gun owner population should be dwindling since it is so easy for them to end confrontation by killing anyone that disagrees with them.

So you think all the people that commit homicide with the ease and indiscretion of a gun... would also simply beat a man to death with his bare hands if he found himself in a conflict?

Or we would remotely see the same amount of homicides if they had use a crowbar, nightstick or baseball bat?

I sincerely doubt you espouse such a notion.

I really have no idea what you are trying to argue here.

You haven't refuted what I said about a very small percentage of gun owners use guns to kill. You have fully admitted you are ok with punishing the 99% of gun owners that have committed no crimes with their weapons. The only thing I can make out is you want to do away with all guns because there's a chance they might use them to kill someone if the get into a conflict, because all conflicts must end by someone killing someone. You are certified bonkers.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I refuted when you said that "Guns don't make people kill people." because they sure as hell help make killing someone infinitely easier.

And that isn't no BS.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

From that study....

My colleagues and I did, however, find gun deaths to be higher in states with higher levels of poverty and lower incomes, as well as in red states and those with more blue-collar working class economies. Conversely, we found gun deaths to be less likely in states with more college graduates and stronger knowledge-based economies.

More hardships + less educations is going to lead to more conflicts. More guns in those conflicts will lead to more gun violence.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

The murder rate among white Americans is as low as the murder rate in Belgium (roughly 1.7 per 100k).

Your equation of hypotheticals is only that and is not based on actual numbers, good luck with that.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

Ill say it right to their face, 'cause it true.

Even for them, it would make a moment of conflict much much much easier to kill someone. And if a gun is present its much much much more likely.

Well you are dead wrong, it is a very small percentage of gun owners that kill another human being and you are obtuse to assume it has to do more with the weapon of choice then the person that pulls the trigger. By your logic the gun owner population should be dwindling since it is so easy for them to end confrontation by killing anyone that disagrees with them.

So you think all the people that commit homicide with the ease and indiscretion of a gun... would also simply beat a man to death with his bare hands if he found himself in a conflict?

Or we would remotely see the same amount of homicides if they had use a crowbar, nightstick or baseball bat?

I sincerely doubt you espouse such a notion.

I really have no idea what you are trying to argue here.

You haven't refuted what I said about a very small percentage of gun owners use guns to kill. You have fully admitted you are ok with punishing the 99% of gun owners that have committed no crimes with their weapons. The only thing I can make out is you want to do away with all guns because there's a chance they might use them to kill someone if the get into a conflict, because all conflicts must end by someone killing someone. You are certified bonkers.

Fully admitted? Wake up 5-digit. Quit making things up that fit your agenda.

I DO NOT WANT TO DO AWAY WITH GUNS.

REPREAT: I DO NOT.

But I am also not so obtuse as to not understand the repercussion of guns, Like some.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

I refuted when you said that "Guns don't make people kill people." because they sure as hell help make killing someone infinitely easier.

And that isn't no BS.

And your ignorance is showing by refuting that. There is no causation.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

From that study....

My colleagues and I did, however, find gun deaths to be higher in states with higher levels of poverty and lower incomes, as well as in red states and those with more blue-collar working class economies. Conversely, we found gun deaths to be less likely in states with more college graduates and stronger knowledge-based economies.

More hardships + less educations is going to lead to more conflicts. More guns in those conflicts will lead to more gun violence.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

The murder rate among white Americans is as low as the murder rate in Belgium (roughly 1.7 per 100k).

Your equation of hypotheticals is only that and is not based on actual numbers, good luck with that.

Yes, ECONOMICS and EDUCATION. Now lets think who wasn't allowed access to these things, and by whom? Lets not ignore how we reach such positionings.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I refuted when you said that "Guns don't make people kill people." because they sure as hell help make killing someone infinitely easier.

And that isn't no BS.

And your ignorance is showing by refuting that. There is no causation.

Having guns in a conflict doesn't lead to more uses of guns to kill?

Man, you would have been awesome in the wild-west.

For all of 5 seconds.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

I'm suggesting people start looking at the real cause of violent crime. HINT: It has nothing to do with the availability of guns. Guns don't make people kill people. Fix the segregation problem, fix the income inequality in these areas and crime should drop by bucketloads.

Just makes it way ####### easier.

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

Cities with the Highest Rates of Gun-Related Homicides (per 100,000 people)
Rank City City Rate
1 New Orleans 62.1
2 Detroit 35.9
3 Baltimore 29.7
4 Oakland, CA 26.6
5 Newark 25.4
6 St. Louis 24.1
7 Miami 23.7
8 Richmond 23.1
9 Philadelphia 20
10 Washington, D.C. 19

Can you link me to the site where you found these stats please

 

[Carolina Hustler]

BigSteelThrill, on 27 Apr 2013 - 10:23, said:

5 digit know nothing, on 27 Apr 2013 - 10:19, said:

BigSteelThrill, on 27 Apr 2013 - 10:16, said:I refuted when you said that "Guns don't make people kill people." because they sure as hell help make killing someone infinitely easier.And that isn't no BS.

And your ignorance is showing by refuting that. There is no causation.

Having guns in a conflict doesn't lead to more uses of guns to kill?Man, you would have been awesome in the wild-west. For all of 5 seconds.

White people have conflicts as well.. also, white people own guns, so I think your deduction is wrong... (that sounds racist, I'm just responding to the above posts about black/white/segregation..)Poverty breads criminal activity, criminal activity is governed and policed by violence. If it wasn't for the gun, it would be some other method. Take away all guns, like in some places in Africa where the gangs can't afford guns, they carry machetes..

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

I'm suggesting people start looking at the real cause of violent crime. HINT: It has nothing to do with the availability of guns. Guns don't make people kill people. Fix the segregation problem, fix the income inequality in these areas and crime should drop by bucketloads.

Just makes it way ####### easier.

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

Cities with the Highest Rates of Gun-Related Homicides (per 100,000 people)
Rank City City Rate
1 New Orleans 62.1
2 Detroit 35.9
3 Baltimore 29.7
4 Oakland, CA 26.6
5 Newark 25.4
6 St. Louis 24.1
7 Miami 23.7
8 Richmond 23.1
9 Philadelphia 20
10 Washington, D.C. 19

Can you link me to the site where you found these stats please

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/12/geography-us-gun-violence/4171/]The Georgraphy of U.S. Gun Violence shows just how localized gun violence is even though guns are ALL OVER THE MAP. (emphasis not added for you of course)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BmJ0sd4XzTA/UBGlpDVugcI/AAAAAAAAACE/jE3NiGKEPZY/s1600/StateGuns.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=PWaOcJlaQvU#!]race & guns

Isn't it really just the number of black people in a city that determines the gun crime rate? Obviously New Orleans has a lot of crime, but big cities with virtually no black people have virtually no gun crime.

Compare a city with virtually no black people like Lincoln, Nebraska to a city with mostly black people, New Orleans.

Lincoln, Nebraska has a per capita income of $23,939

New Orleans has a per capita income of $23,475

Poverty rates are the same in each city.

New Orleans has more murders than any other city in the country(60/100,000).

Lincoln, Nebraska has a murder rate that is similar to many European countries(1/100,000).

Compare the cities with the most black people here, with the cities with the worst murder rates, here. There is almost a perfect correlation between them.

The reason? Black people, specifically black men. Black men kill more people in the united states than any other group of people. Black men make up 6% of the population, but commit well over 60% of the gun crime. Most of the gun crime is committed against other black people.

There is a self inflicted holocaust of black people in the US and no one is talking about it.

 

[mad sweeney]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

I'm suggesting people start looking at the real cause of violent crime. HINT: It has nothing to do with the availability of guns. Guns don't make people kill people. Fix the segregation problem, fix the income inequality in these areas and crime should drop by bucketloads.

Just makes it way ####### easier.

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

Cities with the Highest Rates of Gun-Related Homicides (per 100,000 people)
Rank City City Rate
1 New Orleans 62.1
2 Detroit 35.9
3 Baltimore 29.7
4 Oakland, CA 26.6
5 Newark 25.4
6 St. Louis 24.1
7 Miami 23.7
8 Richmond 23.1
9 Philadelphia 20
10 Washington, D.C. 19

Can you link me to the site where you found these stats please

I demand proof!!!! (that I shall not give when asked myself)

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Do you really want to put a dent into violent crime?

Detroit: #1 most segregated city in the country

Chicago: #5 for segregation

Philly: #6

Also in the top 20:

Baltimore

Washington D.C.

New Orleans

St. Louis

Memphis, TN

Miami, FL

Very curious as to what you are suggesting with this post. Please expand.

I think it's clear he's making a push for desegregation..

I'm suggesting people start looking at the real cause of violent crime. HINT: It has nothing to do with the availability of guns. Guns don't make people kill people. Fix the segregation problem, fix the income inequality in these areas and crime should drop by bucketloads.

Just makes it way ####### easier.

Say that to the 99% of responsible gun owners that buy firearms for self-defense, hunting, sport or hobby.

High concentrations of Gun violence is localized:

Cities with the Highest Rates of Gun-Related Homicides (per 100,000 people)
Rank City City Rate
1 New Orleans 62.1
2 Detroit 35.9
3 Baltimore 29.7
4 Oakland, CA 26.6
5 Newark 25.4
6 St. Louis 24.1
7 Miami 23.7
8 Richmond 23.1
9 Philadelphia 20
10 Washington, D.C. 19

Can you link me to the site where you found these stats please

The Georgraphy of U.S. Gun Violence shows just how localized gun violence is even though guns are ALL OVER THE MAP. (emphasis not added for you of course)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BmJ0sd4XzTA/UBGlpDVugcI/AAAAAAAAACE/jE3NiGKEPZY/s1600/StateGuns.jpg

race & guns

>Isn't it really just the number of black people in a city that determines the gun crime rate? Obviously New Orleans has a lot of crime, but big cities with virtually no black people have virtually no gun crime.

Compare a city with virtually no black people like Lincoln, Nebraska to a city with mostly black people, New Orleans.

Lincoln, Nebraska has a per capita income of $23,939

New Orleans has a per capita income of $23,475

Poverty rates are the same in each city.

New Orleans has more murders than any other city in the country(60/100,000).

Lincoln, Nebraska has a murder rate that is similar to many European countries(1/100,000).

Compare the cities with the most black people here, with the cities with the worst murder rates, here. There is almost a perfect correlation between them.

The reason? Black people, specifically black men. Black men kill more people in the united states than any other group of people. Black men make up 6% of the population, but commit well over 60% of the gun crime. Most of the gun crime is committed against other black people.

There is a self inflicted holocaust of black people in the US and no one is talking about it.

Wasn't asking for additional discussion on the topic per say, I was looking for the rates for the area I live in so I could consider whether or not my perception was effected by my environment. Not really into the 'gun violence black vs white' discussion.. I think we all know where we are there..

 

[5 digit know nothing]

Mr. Colion Noir's response for all of the angry anti-gunners after UBC failed:

 

[timschochet]

What 5 Digit Know Nothing is trying to say is: guns don't kill people, blacks kill people.

 

[FootballDummy]

What 5 Digit Know Nothing is trying to say is: guns don't kill people, blacks kill people.

I wonder which he and Hustler would support more:

1. Banning blacks from having guns; or

2. Making it mandatory for blacks to have guns, so more of them would kill each other.

 

[5 digit know nothing]

What 5 Digit Know Nothing is trying to say is: guns don't kill people, blacks kill black people.

fixed

 

[TwinTurbo]

So when you factor in all of these stolen weapons, all of the guns that are untraceable for the reasons above (and I assume most criminals remove the serial number), the fact that juvenile offenders were more than twice as likely to have a semiautomatic weapon at a crime scene than a adult offender (hint: they didn't legally acquire it) and the expected low compliance resulting from an attempted national registry and you are left with butkus. A national gun registry turns into a giant witch hunt, and an expensive one at that while doing nothing to curb gun violence.

This is just the height of illogical thinking. So much so that I have to wonder if it isn't deliberate.

How many thousands of hit and runs are there every year? Yet, according to this logic, we shouldn't force people to register their cars or have license plates, because (a) the people that hit and run are going to do it anyhow (b) it's therefore an added unnecessary burden on law abiding car owners, and © who knows? Someday the government might decide to seize all cars.

How many thousands of rapes are there every year in which the rapist gets away scot free? Yet, according to this logic, we shouldn't even investigate rapes; it's a waste of money because they'll never catch them anyhow, and it's a burden on law-abiding citizens.

You guys can produce all of the numbers you want. They mean absolutely nothing. I guarantee you that if we had a national database of all legally owned firearms in this country, gun crime would go down significantly. Period. Even having unified background checks WITHOUT the database, which is all the latest gun proposal tried to do, would cause a decrease in crime. But even that you guys were against, because you're still afraid of the big bad government. You can make all the reasonable sounding arguments you want, and produce all of the meaningless statistics you want, but it still in the end comes down to your paranoia.

This national database would only be as good as the data in it and the skills of the people maintaining and analyzing the data. As you know, there are more guns than people in the US so this would be a massive database, like Amazon.com big and would almost certainly cost billions to create, launch and maintain. Yet only a very small portion of that data might actually be useful to investigators.

Most guns used in a crime are 10 years old on average and so tens of millions of them wouldn't be in the database, nor would most of the names of the criminals. I think it would be difficult to come up with a more expensive and more useless collection of data to aid in the prevention of crime. Even Canada's much smaller national firearms registry cost them over $2 billion with huge cost overruns and it ultimately didn't work. This would be an extremely expensive and mostly ineffective electronic bridge to nowhere if the stated purpose was gun crime reduction. But you'd definitely know about all the law abiding gun owners and their weapons, whatever that's good for.

So I'm not against this because I'm some gun nut, I'm against this because it's a ####### stupid giant waste of money on the level of the Iraq war waste. The government would spend billions to create a giant haystack to find needles that weren't in the haystack. Brilliant!

 

[5 digit know nothing]

So when you factor in all of these stolen weapons, all of the guns that are untraceable for the reasons above (and I assume most criminals remove the serial number), the fact that juvenile offenders were more than twice as likely to have a semiautomatic weapon at a crime scene than a adult offender (hint: they didn't legally acquire it) and the expected low compliance resulting from an attempted national registry and you are left with butkus. A national gun registry turns into a giant witch hunt, and an expensive one at that while doing nothing to curb gun violence.

This is just the height of illogical thinking. So much so that I have to wonder if it isn't deliberate.

How many thousands of hit and runs are there every year? Yet, according to this logic, we shouldn't force people to register their cars or have license plates, because (a) the people that hit and run are going to do it anyhow (b) it's therefore an added unnecessary burden on law abiding car owners, and © who knows? Someday the government might decide to seize all cars.

How many thousands of rapes are there every year in which the rapist gets away scot free? Yet, according to this logic, we shouldn't even investigate rapes; it's a waste of money because they'll never catch them anyhow, and it's a burden on law-abiding citizens.

You guys can produce all of the numbers you want. They mean absolutely nothing. I guarantee you that if we had a national database of all legally owned firearms in this country, gun crime would go down significantly. Period. Even having unified background checks WITHOUT the database, which is all the latest gun proposal tried to do, would cause a decrease in crime. But even that you guys were against, because you're still afraid of the big bad government. You can make all the reasonable sounding arguments you want, and produce all of the meaningless statistics you want, but it still in the end comes down to your paranoia.

This national database would only be as good as the data in it and the skills of the people maintaining and analyzing the data. As you know, there are more guns than people in the US so this would be a massive database, like Amazon.com big and would almost certainly cost billions to create, launch and maintain. Yet only a very small portion of that data might actually be useful to investigators.

Most guns used in a crime are 10 years old on average and so tens of millions of them wouldn't be in the database, nor would most of the names of the criminals. I think it would be difficult to come up with a more expensive and more useless collection of data to aid in the prevention of crime. Even Canada's much smaller national firearms registry cost them over $2 billion with huge cost overruns and it ultimately didn't work. This would be an extremely expensive and mostly ineffective electronic bridge to nowhere if the stated purpose was gun crime reduction. But you'd definitely know about all the law abiding gun owners and their weapons, whatever that's good for.

So I'm not against this because I'm some gun nut, I'm against this because it's a ####### stupid giant waste of money on the level of the Iraq war waste. The government would spend billions to create a giant haystack to find needles that weren't in the haystack. Brilliant!

[ TIMLOGIC ] We'll just tax gun owners [ /TIMLOGIC ]

[ 5Digit ] The only reason to have one is "to tax or to take" [ /5Digit ]

[ eurotrashman ] Wow...can you be any more shortsighted???? [ /eurotrashman ]