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***OFFICIAL GUN CONTROL DEBATE*** (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter ATC1
- Start date
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
jonessed
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
Comedian Jim Jeffries perspective on guns in America. Funny stuff...many F-bombs so NSFW: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/06/19/an-australian-stand-up-comic-explains-what-u-s-gun-laws-look-like-to-the-rest-of-the-world/?postshare=1621434833834137
Sand
Footballguy
As it turns out when it comes to "those places" they are almost always gun free zones.
"With just two exceptions, from at least 1950, all the mass public shootings have occurred in these gun-free zones."
Interesting find and not something I would have thought about. However, it is a very strong finding as we have had a number of these happen over the years. Turns out liberal efforts to further expand these type of zones just makes things worse. Systematic of this type of thinking - data-less, kneejerk decision making.
Bucky86
Footballguy
IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE, GO HOME! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE, GO HOME! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE, GO HOME! IF YOU DONT LIKE IT HERE, GO HOME!
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
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Insoxicated
There are several components to reducing the occurrence and impact of spree shootings
Starting on the front end...
• Better target and document those who should not own guns (mentally ill, felons, etc).
• Improve measures in place to limit access to firearms by those on the above list, or the population in general (view held by some).
Then on the back end...
• Evaluate the existence easy targets by way of "Gun Free Zones"
• Improve response to shootings once they start
Despite the wide arrange of angles to improve the current situation, some folks seem completely fixated on the "prohibition" facet. Ironically, that approach is most likely the LEAST likely to be effective, and arguably the least efficient with regards to resources:results ratio.
Starting on the front end...
• Better target and document those who should not own guns (mentally ill, felons, etc).
• Improve measures in place to limit access to firearms by those on the above list, or the population in general (view held by some).
Then on the back end...
• Evaluate the existence easy targets by way of "Gun Free Zones"
• Improve response to shootings once they start
Despite the wide arrange of angles to improve the current situation, some folks seem completely fixated on the "prohibition" facet. Ironically, that approach is most likely the LEAST likely to be effective, and arguably the least efficient with regards to resources:results ratio.
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ATC1
Footballguy
Robbery suspect killed in shootout with intended victim outside North Dallas Benihana (Last night)http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/06/robbery-suspect-killed-in-shootout-outside-benihana-restaurant-in-north-dallas.html/
Lesson hopefully learned? Don't rob anyone where there isn't a gun free zone.
Lesson hopefully learned? Don't rob anyone where there isn't a gun free zone.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I think "don't rob anyone" is a lesson that probably should not be contingent on whether or not you're in a gun-free zones.
This entire thing about how mass shootings usually occur in gun-free zones is a really poor argument. You know why that's the case? Because most businesses and schools bar firearms. It's like saying that smoking prevents mass shootings since they almost always happen in smoke-free zones. Or that Lisa Simpson's rock keeps tigers away.
Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
So prohibition of drugs never works but prohibition of guns will work just peachy because we've proved were good at it with what? The demand for guns is very similar to the demand for drugs and the result of a gun ban will be the same as a drug ban, lots of otherwise law abiding citizens in jail for a crime they have done which hurts no one.
Put in personal terms I own two hunting rifles and a hand gun for target shooting and home defense if it ever became necessary. There is no ####### way I would turn those in because they were banned by the government, any more than I expect a guy that smokes a few joints a week to stop smoking just because the government made pot illegal. Same question comes to my lips that comes to the pot smokers, why is the government penalizing my safe and rational behavior when such a small portion of users are causing the problems arising from the"use"? Banning it isn't going to stop it except in the margins. Your better off putting your energy into education, mental health, and identifying people who have problems before they act on them.
Put in personal terms I own two hunting rifles and a hand gun for target shooting and home defense if it ever became necessary. There is no ####### way I would turn those in because they were banned by the government, any more than I expect a guy that smokes a few joints a week to stop smoking just because the government made pot illegal. Same question comes to my lips that comes to the pot smokers, why is the government penalizing my safe and rational behavior when such a small portion of users are causing the problems arising from the"use"? Banning it isn't going to stop it except in the margins. Your better off putting your energy into education, mental health, and identifying people who have problems before they act on them.
General Malaise
Footballguy
I'm anti-gun but tend to agree with the analogy. Banning guns won't stop gun violence. I don't even know if it will help. Bad guys aren't going to follow the rules. Hell, even good guys are going to have a problem with it.
What if we stopped manufacturing bullets? Just stopped the whole production? No importing, no making them here, no selling them. What's in current inventory is it. Would that help or is that the dumbest idea in the history of dumb ideas? And by help, I mean stop crazy people from shooting up churches and schools.
timschochet
Footballguy
Regarding gun free zones- maybe they reduce gun violence, maybe they don't. It seems to me there's no way to prove it one way or another because we don't know how many more gun deaths there might be if there were no gun free zones.
It's even harder to determine if they have an effect on mass shootings, despite the evidence that Sand linked, because mass shootings are so rare anyhow.
I know one thing: im glad that guns are not allowed in my kids' schools. I would be highly uncomfortable if the teachers or some other adult carried guns around. I believe the chances for a tragic accident in such a situation would be much greater than the chance that the presence of guns at the school would actually deter or defend against that rarest of occurrences, a crazed mass shooter.
It's even harder to determine if they have an effect on mass shootings, despite the evidence that Sand linked, because mass shootings are so rare anyhow.
I know one thing: im glad that guns are not allowed in my kids' schools. I would be highly uncomfortable if the teachers or some other adult carried guns around. I believe the chances for a tragic accident in such a situation would be much greater than the chance that the presence of guns at the school would actually deter or defend against that rarest of occurrences, a crazed mass shooter.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
I agree with all of this. The only part I don't get is why people like guns so much. Pot makes sense to me, because it is awesome and makes me feel good. I can't ever imagine feeling that way about a gun.
ATC1
Footballguy
Probably shouldn't be, but I bet he would have been more successful picking a guy to rob coming out of a college building, post office or a business where there is no guns in the building.
Most privately owned businesses I go to are not gun free zones. Why not go there on a mass murdering spree? Why always pick a school, or church, or a movie theater further away from your house then a handful of other theaters?
ATC1
Footballguy
That is why whenever there is a mass killing people buy all the ammo they can get their hands on and stock it themselves or sell it for huge profit. If you want cops or people protecting themselves without putting other people in harms way, I recommend you let them target practice and take self defense courses and don't make it so expensive it wouldn't be worth the price to practice.
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Insoxicated
Outlawing bullets would be about as effective as outlawing guns.
• There are already tens if not hundreds of billions of rounds in circulation.
• Even if US manufacturing was effectively banned, black market will ALWAYS fill the gap. Prohibition would simply create more "gun free zone" type easy targets for criminals who WILL find aways to get ammo from that black market.
• Eliminating hunting rounds would never ever ever pass. If you somehow magically eliminated other rounds, criminals would just use hunting weapons.
• Even if you magically got rid of all guns and ammo.... law of whac-a-mole would pop up and bombings (or similar) would be the new method of "killing-du-jour" by those who wish to inflict harm.
Not saying the right course of action is to do nothing... just saying this particular course of action is DOA.
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Insoxicated
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Chaka
Footballguy
[icon]
Insoxicated
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
That is one of the most stupid ideas I have ever seen concerning this subject.Chaka said:
But then I would bet anything that you would be more than happy to show your disdain with having to show your license to have to vote.
Your a freaking both tool and fool.
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Hot Diggity Dog
Footballguy
Stopping bullet manufacturing is not a good solution either, people make their own and does anyone doubt it would take about 6 months for bullets to be rolling across our southern border? We can't stop people from coming across let alone things they can mule.General Malaise said:
MaxThreshold
Footballguy
The Little Chaka That Could. I have faith in him. He'll figure it out eventually.Maybe if you keep that 2 cylinder mind of yours at full throttle for bit, you might eventually arrive at the appropriate conclusion.And?[icon] said:HTHChaka said:I'm glad you agree.[icon] said:Chaka said:
Chaka
Footballguy
Throwing insults is kind of pointless in this medium don't you think? Heaven forbid we try to be cordial, but I wouldn't want that to get in the way of a good zinger.
You might be surprised that I actually don't know what the big deal is with requiring voters to show ID. I also own multiple guns and have no intention of turning them in to any government agency.
Johnnymac
Footballguy
I agree that banning guns will not stop the problem. I also dont like the govt telling me what I can and cant do. The USA does have a problem with gun violence, it's a people problem. I don't have the answer but I do think there should be alot more emphasis in regards to mental health treatment in this country.
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Insoxicated
I think I can I think I can.....I have. You believe that all laws are reasonable.Maybe if you keep that 2 cylinder mind of yours at full throttle for bit, you might eventually arrive at the appropriate conclusion.And?[icon] said:HTHChaka said:I'm glad you agree.[icon] said:Chaka said:
GrandpaRox
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Lots of Zing! ™ but not much substance [icon].I think I can I think I can.....I have. You believe that all laws are reasonable.Maybe if you keep that 2 cylinder mind of yours at full throttle for bit, you might eventually arrive at the appropriate conclusion.And?[icon] said:HTHChaka said:I'm glad you agree.[icon] said:Chaka said:
Chaka
Footballguy
I don't know which part the first part is referring to. Going after the unscrupulous FFL holders who are responsible for the majority of illegal guns on the streets or the notion that we should be able to track every gun from manufacturer to owner (and subsequent owners)?
What's the problem with the one you have a problem with?
timschochet
Footballguy
I don't see it. I think of those who hold his general position, he's actually among the more reasonable. Go back through this thread and read some of the posts by Mr. Two Cents and a few other guys...
Brony
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
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Insoxicated
[icon]
Insoxicated
Thanks Tim
I've said it before, but I always respect your open minded approach on the issue and willingness to entertain ideas outside your normal comfort level.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
Won't fly with the gun nuts (eta or even many of the reasonable ones) but still
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Amused to Death
Footballguy
Galileo
Footballguy
Jesus with a gun would have been problematic... https://ca.news.yahoo.com/pope-says-weapons-manufacturers-cant-call-themselves-christian-184139430.html
joffer
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
...guarding the Save Yourself Survival and Tactical Gear store
I'm guessing these were the left overs from the 'save Texas from the Americans' crew - not the "A" team so to speak. I love the quote from the sheriff, "It's like the Clampetts have come to town"
Well, natural selection and all.
