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***Official Joe Biden Campaign Thread (1 Viewer)

In all seriousness, if Joe is as bad behind the scenes as he appears at times on stage, it might be time to pull him.  This guy doesnt have the gas for 5 years

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
I will gladly support Biden over Trump, and I strongly prefer Biden to Sanders or Warren.  But it's kind of amazing how much older Biden appears to be than those two even though all three are in their 70s.  We all know that Biden has never been a modern day Demosthenes, but he seems to be going downhill at a pretty rapid rate and that's starting to make me worry that his presumed strength -- electability -- may be exaggerated. 
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I have no idea why a man in his 70s would want to be president.

 
Max Power said:
In all seriousness, if Joe is as bad behind the scenes as he appears at times on stage, it might be time to pull him.  This guy does have the gas for 5 years
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The issue for me is whether this is just vintage Joe, or early signs of cognitive decline associated with a degenerative disorder. IIRC,  he spoke for 40 minutes, did a long q&a, and then mingled with the crowd for quite a while. One "gaffe" in that time-frame might be normal for even vintage Joe. 

 
Joe Biden provided material and international support to a white supremacist regiment in Ukraine.  

https://www.mintpressnews.com/joe-biden-launches-campaign-charlottesville-condemnation-supporting-neo-nazis-ukraine/257891/

Between his work subjugating black people with the 94 crime bill, backing neonazis in Ukraine, and his admin’s construction of immigrant concentration camps, voting for Joe Biden would be a joy for any white nationalist.  He’s done more damage to people of color than Trump could ever dream of.  

 
ren hoek said:
Joe Biden provided material and international support to a white supremacist regiment in Ukraine.  

https://www.mintpressnews.com/joe-biden-launches-campaign-charlottesville-condemnation-supporting-neo-nazis-ukraine/257891/

Between his work subjugating black people with the 94 crime bill, backing neonazis in Ukraine, and his admin’s construction of immigrant concentration camps, voting for Joe Biden would be a joy for any white nationalist.  He’s done more damage to people of color than Trump could ever dream of.  
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Even if this we accept your facts and conclusion here (I don't), the logic behind it is still profoundly silly. We are electing a president for 2020-2024, not 1992-1996. The pasts of the candidates are relevant of course, but primarily as an indication of what sort of president that person will be. And the suggestion that a Biden presidency would be better for white nationalists than a Trump presidency is utterly preposterous on its face. It's like saying that a baseball team would prefer Albert Pujols to Ronald Acuna for the next four years because he's done more damage to pitchers than Acuna could ever dream of.

Also just an FYI- that article you linked is wildly dishonest and unfair to the women it suggests it is protecting from exploitation, Heyer and her mother. It's pretty gross, IMO. The article says she "seemingly condemned the exploitation of her daughter’s untimely demise" by Biden in using Charlottesville footage in the campaign message.  However, looking at her full comments indicates that she did no such thing. In fact she seemed to indicate that she didn't even find it exploitative:

Asked if she had found Biden’s video exploitative, Bro said, “Since we had not spoken, I’m glad he (Biden) didn’t specifically mention Heather. It’s not all about her.”
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Which of course means that it is the Mint Press News, not Biden, exploiting Heyer's memory for their own purposes.

Anyway, it's stuff like this that leads to people mistakenly describing and addressing you as if you are a Trump supporter.  You're minimizing his horrific record on bigotry and white supremacy as a candidate and president. I know you're probably just doing it because you want to stimulate an interesting conversation (and because you have terrible taste in blogs). But if you want to know where it's coming from, here's an excellent example.

 
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Oh man, I think this will end up being a pretty big hit against him. Probably a slip of the tongue, but that's not a slip of the tongue a near 80 year old man can make. It weighs differently at that age because you know how people are going to perceive it.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I will gladly support Biden over Trump, and I strongly prefer Biden to Sanders or Warren.  But it's kind of amazing how much older Biden appears to be than those two even though all three are in their 70s.  We all know that Biden has never been a modern day Demosthenes, but he seems to be going downhill at a pretty rapid rate and that's starting to make me worry that his presumed strength -- electability -- may be exaggerated. 
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Biden has aged a lot in the past few years. He used to be someone you could point to as he looks good for his age.  

 
He was out of it back when he decided not to run in 2016. His mouth moves faster than his brain. The longer the campaign drags on the more gaffes he'll make.

 
I honestly believe he's the only candidate out of the top 5-6 democrats who isn't a slam dunk to beat Trump. He was polling at virtually nothing when he dropped out of the 2008 race. He was polling that low for a reason. Need a candidate who voters will be excited about, not a candidate who will play not to lose.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Even if this we accept your facts and conclusion here (I don't), the logic behind it is still profoundly silly. We are electing a president for 2020-2024, not 1992-1996. The pasts of the candidates are relevant of course, but primarily as an indication of what sort of president that person will be. And the suggestion that a Biden presidency would be better for white nationalists than a Trump presidency is utterly preposterous on its face. It's like saying that a baseball team would prefer Albert Pujols to Ronald Acuna for the next four years because he's done more damage to pitchers than Acuna could ever dream of.

Also just an FYI- that article you linked is wildly dishonest and unfair to the women it suggests it is protecting from exploitation, Heyer and her mother. It's pretty gross, IMO. The article says she "seemingly condemned the exploitation of her daughter’s untimely demise" by Biden in using Charlottesville footage in the campaign message.  However, looking at her full comments indicates that she did no such thing. In fact she seemed to indicate that she didn't even find it exploitative:

Which of course means that it is the Mint Press News, not Biden, exploiting Heyer's memory for their own purposes.

Anyway, it's stuff like this that leads to people mistakenly describing and addressing you as if you are a Trump supporter.  You're minimizing his horrific record on bigotry and white supremacy as a candidate and president. I know you're probably just doing it because you want to stimulate an interesting conversation (and because you have terrible taste in blogs). But if you want to know where it's coming from, here's an excellent example.
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It's not an endorsement of Trump Tobias.  I believe this is a factual statement: Biden has done more damage to people of color over the course of his several decades in DC than Trump, and in fact helped pave the way for someone like Donald Trump to sweep through and pick up the pieces.  It was all rhetoric of course, but this reactionary wave is happening across the globe.  It's not a fluke, it's the aftermath of the policies people like Joe Biden endorsed.   If Biden becomes the president, we'll just get a smarter Trump next time.  It's not good enough.  It's a plea for the Democratic Party to please not be total trash this time and nominate someone that isn't a corrupt #######.  

Secondly, is it really a shock that the guy who falsely smeared a dead man as a drunk driver would invoke a dead woman for his own political ambitions?  Here's some more context:

“But I wasn’t surprised,” Bro, co-founder of the Heather Heyer Foundation set up in her daughter’s memory, told The Daily Beast. “Most people do that sort of thing. They capitalize on whatever situation is handy. He didn’t reach out to me, and didn’t mention her by name specifically, and he probably knew we don’t endorse candidates.”

Asked if she had found Biden’s video exploitative, Bro said, “Since we had not spoken, I’m glad he (Biden) didn’t specifically mention Heather. It’s not all about her.”

“For me, what he did this morning was that he told me where he stands on one issue. Now tell us the rest of your platform. That’s what I’m waiting to hear”

Bro added, “It’s been almost two years since Heather died. I’m moving forward. I still grieve for my daughter. But I have a realistic understanding that this was a public event, and people will use it however it suits them. It’s just a fact of life.”

Of Biden, she said, “For me, what he did this morning was that he told me where he stands on one issue. Now tell us the rest of your platform. That’s what I’m waiting to hear.”

“I’ve seen that footage a lot lately for other reasons,” said Bro. “It was like, ‘Here we go again.’ I am told by other reporters those who were there at the time have been traumatized by seeing it again. I’ve not spoken to them personally.”

I think it's pretty gross too, but probably for a different reason than you.  Because Biden had no problem backing a violent ethnonationalist movement in Ukraine when it suited his foreign policy agenda.  He doesn't get to just handwave it away because he said some pretty words in a campaign video.  He doesn't get to invoke Charlottesville like he didn't gladhand (seen here with Oleh Tyahnybok, who once blasted the "criminal activities" of "organized Jewry") with ultranationalist white supremacists in Ukraine.  This is a real thing that Joe Biden did and he should be held to account for it.  

 
ren hoek said:
It's not an endorsement of Trump Tobias.  I believe this is a factual statement: Biden has done more damage to people of color over the course of his several decades in DC than Trump, and in fact helped pave the way for someone like Donald Trump to sweep through and pick up the pieces.  It was all rhetoric of course, but this reactionary wave is happening across the globe.  It's not a fluke, it's the aftermath of the policies people like Joe Biden endorsed.   If Biden becomes the president, we'll just get a smarter Trump next time.  It's not good enough.  It's a plea for the Democratic Party to please not be total trash this time and nominate someone that isn't a corrupt #######.  

Secondly, is it really a shock that the guy who falsely smeared a dead man as a drunk driver would invoke a dead woman for his own political ambitions?  Here's some more context:

“But I wasn’t surprised,” Bro, co-founder of the Heather Heyer Foundation set up in her daughter’s memory, told The Daily Beast. “Most people do that sort of thing. They capitalize on whatever situation is handy. He didn’t reach out to me, and didn’t mention her by name specifically, and he probably knew we don’t endorse candidates.”

Asked if she had found Biden’s video exploitative, Bro said, “Since we had not spoken, I’m glad he (Biden) didn’t specifically mention Heather. It’s not all about her.”

“For me, what he did this morning was that he told me where he stands on one issue. Now tell us the rest of your platform. That’s what I’m waiting to hear”

Bro added, “It’s been almost two years since Heather died. I’m moving forward. I still grieve for my daughter. But I have a realistic understanding that this was a public event, and people will use it however it suits them. It’s just a fact of life.”

Of Biden, she said, “For me, what he did this morning was that he told me where he stands on one issue. Now tell us the rest of your platform. That’s what I’m waiting to hear.”

“I’ve seen that footage a lot lately for other reasons,” said Bro. “It was like, ‘Here we go again.’ I am told by other reporters those who were there at the time have been traumatized by seeing it again. I’ve not spoken to them personally.”

I think it's pretty gross too, but probably for a different reason than you.  Because Biden had no problem backing a violent ethnonationalist movement in Ukraine when it suited his foreign policy agenda.  He doesn't get to just handwave it away because he said some pretty words in a campaign video.  He doesn't get to invoke Charlottesville like he didn't gladhand (seen here with Oleh Tyahnybok, who once blasted the "criminal activities" of "organized Jewry") with ultranationalist white supremacists in Ukraine.  This is a real thing that Joe Biden did and he should be held to account for it.  
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Nothing you said here is responsive to the points I made in my post. It's just an anti-Biden rant and an attempted defense of the blog that IMO falls pretty short.

FWIW I agree with some of of what you say about Biden and the criticism of his record on race, and I am 100% certain I won't be voting for him in the primary. But that doesn't make it any more preposterous to assert that "voting for Joe Biden would be a joy for any white nationalist."  To give just one of literally dozens of examples: the current administration has repeatedly curtailed law enforcement efforts aimed at white nationalists. Biden almost certainly would not do so. Therefore, a Biden presidency would be significantly worse for white nationalists than a Trump presidency.  To suggest otherwise is, as I said, preposterous.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Yep, the real white enthonationalist in this race is the guy who served 8 years as Obama's VP.  
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You are distorting my views.  I think Trump's a white nationalist too.  But you don't fight white nationalism by backing a guy that openly supported hardcore neonazis in Ukraine. Biden did that.  The Democrats need to do better. 

 
ren hoek said:
You are distorting my views.  I think Trump's a white nationalist too.  But you don't fight white nationalism by backing a guy that openly supported hardcore neonazis in Ukraine. Biden did that.  The Democrats need to do better. 
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I agree, and I plan to support Dem efforts to "do better."

But if they don't, a Biden presidency would still be significantly better for the fight against white nationalism than a second Trump term. Way, way, way, way better. 

IMO it would go a long way to getting people to listen to you around here if you would simply admit this fairly obvious point.

 
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TobiasFunke said:
I agree, and I plan to support Dem efforts to "do better."

But if they don't, a Biden presidency would still be significantly better for the fight against white nationalism than a second Trump term. Way, way, way, way better. 

IMO it would go a long way to getting people to listen to you around here if you would simply admit this fairly obvious point.
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Biden has a ton of flaws...I don't like a lot of what he is or has done.

But yeah...Trump is so bad that even Biden would be significantly better and we know its likely 4 years only.

Biden and a strong VP choice that would be the presumptive nominee in 2024 would be an easy vote against Trump for me.

Id much rather he drop out...pledge support for Mayor Pete and have him go on to win the nomination.  But that doesn't appear likely to happen.

 
Gopher State said:
Joe and Pete would be an awesome ticket
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Yes...id love that.  I agree though some with Tim that I don't see it necessarily happening.  I think he does go female or minority...or both (to help shore up African American support).  Its obviously a tactic...but it won't seem to matter.  I think they will avoid the 2 white guy ticket.  And no its not racist to say it people...its reality of trying to be and look diverse so the questions don't go nuts just based on that.

 
Taking a moment from my wonderful vacation to comment on this. Biden has been and always will be a gaffe machine. It won’t hurt him at all, because people know he’s well meaning. For example in this instance, assume the worst: that he’s implying that white people are the non-poor ones in our society. Guess what? That’s unfortunately generally true. He didn’t say it right and he often doesn’t say things right. But people know what he means and he’s not being negative or divisive, which is the difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. 

The less said about ren’s criticism the better, except to point out that it is not so much a critique of Biden but of established American foreign policy since 1945. Despite Trump’s victory last time around I don’t think the public is willing to accept Noam Chomsky’s view of the world just yet. At least I hope not. 

I have to say that, up to this point, the criticism of Joe Biden as a candidate has been extremely weak- nothing like the criticism of Hillary Clinton which was very substantial. More importantly, Hillary was generally disliked by the public (wrongly and unfortunately for the most part, IMO) while Biden is generally well liked, in the same cheery way that Ronald Reagan was well liked, and like Reagan none of this stuff is going to touch him at all. If Biden is the nominee, look for him to clean Trump’s clock. 

 
timschochet said:
Taking a moment from my wonderful vacation to comment on this. Biden has been and always will be a gaffe machine. It won’t hurt him at all, because people know he’s well meaning. For example in this instance, assume the worst: that he’s implying that white people are the non-poor ones in our society. Guess what? That’s unfortunately generally true. He didn’t say it right and he often doesn’t say things right. But people know what he means and he’s not being negative or divisive, which is the difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. 

The less said about ren’s criticism the better, except to point out that it is not so much a critique of Biden but of established American foreign policy since 1945. Despite Trump’s victory last time around I don’t think the public is willing to accept Noam Chomsky’s view of the world just yet. At least I hope not. 

I have to say that, up to this point, the criticism of Joe Biden as a candidate has been extremely weak- nothing like the criticism of Hillary Clinton which was very substantial. More importantly, Hillary was generally disliked by the public (wrongly and unfortunately for the most part, IMO) while Biden is generally well liked, in the same cheery way that Ronald Reagan was well liked, and like Reagan none of this stuff is going to touch him at all. If Biden is the nominee, look for him to clean Trump’s clock. 
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Tim, hope you and the family are enjoying your vacation. Not surprising you would give Biden a pass for his racist comment, maybe a little disappointing but I’m sure all on the left will make this excuse. Enjoy the rest of your time away. 

 
timschochet said:
Taking a moment from my wonderful vacation to comment on this. Biden has been and always will be a gaffe machine. It won’t hurt him at all, because people know he’s well meaning. For example in this instance, assume the worst: that he’s implying that white people are the non-poor ones in our society. Guess what? That’s unfortunately generally true. He didn’t say it right and he often doesn’t say things right. But people know what he means and he’s not being negative or divisive, which is the difference between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. 

The less said about ren’s criticism the better, except to point out that it is not so much a critique of Biden but of established American foreign policy since 1945. Despite Trump’s victory last time around I don’t think the public is willing to accept Noam Chomsky’s view of the world just yet. At least I hope not. 

I have to say that, up to this point, the criticism of Joe Biden as a candidate has been extremely weak- nothing like the criticism of Hillary Clinton which was very substantial. More importantly, Hillary was generally disliked by the public (wrongly and unfortunately for the most part, IMO) while Biden is generally well liked, in the same cheery way that Ronald Reagan was well liked, and like Reagan none of this stuff is going to touch him at all. If Biden is the nominee, look for him to clean Trump’s clock. 
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This is BS Tim.  He's ####### brutal and I want no part of him being the Democratic nominee.

 
ren hoek said:
Joe Biden provided material and international support to a white supremacist regiment in Ukraine.  

https://www.mintpressnews.com/joe-biden-launches-campaign-charlottesville-condemnation-supporting-neo-nazis-ukraine/257891/

Between his work subjugating black people with the 94 crime bill, backing neonazis in Ukraine, and his admin’s construction of immigrant concentration camps, voting for Joe Biden would be a joy for any white nationalist.  He’s done more damage to people of color than Trump could ever dream of.  
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Biden eulogized a segregationist 

 
"at least 3" lmao.

Poor Joe can't say "two" even if he wants to. And then he tries to defend his non-answer with what appears to be his gay marriage stance.

You go Progressive Joe!

 
Max Power said:
While I agree, I cant imagine who makes the push.

Pete has the best shot in my eyes.
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I wish.  Pete won’t win. 

Biden is so underwhelming.  and he’s losing it a bit. It will only get worse as we go forward.  His recent gaffes would be major news but for the fact that is the new normal for presidential speech. 

Biden sucks.  But a wet rag is preferable to trump.  Seriously.  

 
Joe is the by far the best candidate the Dems have.  His values reflect what the Democratic Party stands for.  People are not ready for socialism in America.  Bernie and Harris would get crushed by Trump, we can’t afford to have that happen.  A Biden/Pete ticket would be a winner, we need someone removed from the AOC, Omar types.

 
"Biden works, Marge. In theory. In theory Biden works."

Marge: "What's wrong with Stampy?"

Gamekeeper: "Animals are a lot like people, some of them act badly because they have had a hard life or have been mistreated. But like people... some of them are just jerks"

This guy is a dead-assed candidate. When are the Democrats going to come up with somebody milquetoast centrist, or is that what the party has become.

Buttigeig is probably their best candidate. He might just win. Peanut farmer from Georgia. Mayor of South Bend.

Could work. 

 
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rockaction said:
"Biden works, Marge. In theory. In theory Biden works."

Marge: "What's wrong with Stampy?"

Gamekeeper: "Animals are a lot like people, some of them act badly because they have had a hard life or have been mistreated. But like people... some of them are just jerks"

This guy is a dead-assed candidate. When are the Democrats going to come up with somebody milquetoast centrist, or is that what the party has become.

Buttigeig is probably their best candidate. He might just win. Peanut farmer from Georgia. Mayor of South Bend.

Could work. 
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It would be helpful if the democrats actually knew what they were.  It's funny that conservatives point at the whole party and label them socialists, but I don't really know any democrats that are excited about any of the passengers in this clown car, or can agree on what the hell this party actually stands for.

 
rockaction said:
"Biden works, Marge. In theory. In theory Biden works."

Marge: "What's wrong with Stampy?"

Gamekeeper: "Animals are a lot like people, some of them act badly because they have had a hard life or have been mistreated. But like people... some of them are just jerks"

This guy is a dead-assed candidate. When are the Democrats going to come up with somebody milquetoast centrist, or is that what the party has become.

Buttigeig is probably their best candidate. He might just win. Peanut farmer from Georgia. Mayor of South Bend.

Could work. 
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I’d love to see Pete win, but I think it unlikely. 

 
the rover said:
It would be helpful if the democrats actually knew what they were.  It's funny that conservatives point at the whole party and label them socialists, but I don't really know any democrats that are excited about any of the passengers in this clown car, or can agree on what the hell this party actually stands for.
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I totally agree with this. I think it has to do a lot with a subject I am not anywhere near an expert in, and that's gerrymandered districts. And age or lack of in the Senate. This a bad year; it's like 2004, but worse. With a worse president. 

 
Henry Ford said:
I’d love to see Pete win, but I think it unlikely. 
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Yeah, every time I hear him and think of wikkid and k4's (or your) seeming support of him, I listen. But I'm not an average voter, nor am I center-left. I'm pretty right-wing, minus the criminal justice and militarism at home and abroad...

come to think of it...

maybe I'm back to center-left like I was when I was seventeen by just staying where I was. 

 
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If it comes down to electability, which is a stupid way to look at a presidential election and driven by fear of 8 years of Trump, I think it's Harris or Biden.   If it's who will make the best President, I think it's Pete.

Trump will probably stroke out soon anyway.   That guy is a giant ball of stress and hate.   

 
As of right now, I'm leaving the top of the ticket blank in 2020. I've been keeping an open mind to Joe but that is fading fast. 

 
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