**** OFFICIAL **** LOST - The TV Series (4 Viewers)

[ScottNorwood]

I was flipping through the channels today and saw a young Locke on tv. Turned out that it was an old Matlock. Arnzt was also in the episode. Is there a possible Matlock tie-in next season?

 

[Buckychudd]

I thought this was slightly amusing....

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ...ex.html?cnn=yes

Sports Casting Call: Lost

Here's the third edition of our monthly feature in which we pair characters from a TV show with sports figures. This month we're steeped in reality as we cast Lost.

Jack Kevin Garnett

Dr. Jack has been a leader from Day 1; his combination of skills (from medicine to marksmanship) are unmatched. Still, he's a control freak. The talented KG is the Timberwolves' franchise player and hardest worker. While his public persona is friendly, ask former teammate Wally Szczerbiak what happens to those who don't toe his line.

Locke Pat Riley

Fancying himself an almost mystical man of faith, Locke is fond of odd aphorisms as he challenges younger castaways to fulfill their potential. Mr. "Winner Within" Riley still relies heavily on motivational ploys; witness the "secret" totem hidden under a blanket in the Heat locker room this postseason that Riles guards as closely as any hatch.

Sawyer Terrell Owens

This con man is always looking for an angle, which hasn't won him many friends on the island. Because he's hoarded guns and other key supplies, though, he can't be ignored. T.O. griped his way out of S.F. and Philadelphia into better deals elsewhere, but his impressive guns and undeniable talent continue to make him a key figure in the game.

Kate Maria Sharapova

"Freckles," as Sawyer calls her, looks and often acts quite angelic, but we know from her criminal past that she can be ruthless when necessary. While Russian beauty Sharapova has the appearance (and portfolio) of a top model, unlike countrywoman Anna Kournikova, the former Wimbledon champ also has a killer instinct on the court.

Sayid Bruce Bowen

A former Iraqi soldier, Sayid is an honorable and thoughtful presence on the island. Even so, he's willing to do anything (including torture) to get the job done. The well-traveled Bowen has carved out a key role as a defensive stopper on Spurs championship teams while emerging as a wise man in the locker room. But Bowen's critics call him dirty for using any and all physical means to stop an opponent.

Hurley William "The Refrigerator" Perry

Lottery winner Hurley is the island's lovable big lug, though his food-hoarding tendencies demonstrate a lack of self-control. The Fridge charmed Chicago with both his play and his personality as a larger-than-life DT in the '80s, but he ultimately ate himself out of the NFL.

Walt LeBron James

Walt may be the show's key figure. The Others seem particularly interested in this apparent golden child, who was marked as special from an early age when a bird flew into a glass window. LeBron is the NBA's Chosen One who stamped himself as special from an early age by flying to the glass like a bird.

Michael Kobe Bryant

Michael was well-liked by his fellow castaways, who sympathized with his quest to find his son -- until Michael betrayed them to save his and Walt's skin. Kobe was a fan and advertisers' favorite until that ill-fated night in a Colorado resort, and he hurt his image even more among his peers by selling out Shaq in his interview with police.

Mr. Eko Pedro Martinez

The powerful Eko was a head-bashing criminal before transforming himself into a respected man of God. Still, you don't want to cross a man who literally carries a big stick. Martinez was portrayed as a headhunter early in his career before maturing into one of the game's most respected pitchers. Just ask Jose Guillen, however, if you should get too comfortable carrying a bat against Pedro even now.

Charlie Jeremy Giambi

Former rock star Charlie struggled with living in the shadow of his more famous brother and turned to heroin. He usually tries to do the right thing but often slides back into underhanded deeds. The younger Giambi hasn't been able to match his brother at the plate despite turning to steroids. He did the right thing by owning up to that misstep but should have slid to avoid Derek Jeter's backhanded toss in 2001.

 

[GStrot]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/25/arts/tel...ion/25lost.html

Will a rescue effort be a part of Season 3? Mr. Lindelof and Mr. Cuse would not say but allowed that if this season was about the hatch, next season will be about the Others, as led by the oblique Henry Gale (played by Michael Emerson, who will join the regular cast). Mr. Cuse listed what viewers will learn about the Others by this time next year: "Who are these people? How many of them are there? What is their history? What are they trying to accomplish?"

By next season, they mean the short first 8 weeks. correct?

I think they mean the whole season, but I think the first 6 weeks will be Jack, Sawyer and Kate with the Others and then they escape somehow in week 6 and week 7-22 are the Us vs. Them after Jack, Kate and Sawyer get back to the other survivors.I have a feeling that the escape from the Others will be with Danielle's help and she will get Alex back at that point.

That is a lot about the Others. I hope it doesn't kill the momentum.

 

[stbugs]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/25/arts/tel...ion/25lost.html

Will a rescue effort be a part of Season 3? Mr. Lindelof and Mr. Cuse would not say but allowed that if this season was about the hatch, next season will be about the Others, as led by the oblique Henry Gale (played by Michael Emerson, who will join the regular cast). Mr. Cuse listed what viewers will learn about the Others by this time next year: "Who are these people? How many of them are there? What is their history? What are they trying to accomplish?"

By next season, they mean the short first 8 weeks. correct?

I think they mean the whole season, but I think the first 6 weeks will be Jack, Sawyer and Kate with the Others and then they escape somehow in week 6 and week 7-22 are the Us vs. Them after Jack, Kate and Sawyer get back to the other survivors.I have a feeling that the escape from the Others will be with Danielle's help and she will get Alex back at that point.

That is a lot about the Others. I hope it doesn't kill the momentum.

Damn man, I was done with the thread till Season 3. It could be a lot, but it just seems like they wouldn't break after 6 weeks if they didn't sort of wrap up a mini-season, don't you think?

To me, 6 episodes is about right for a major delving into the Others. It took 6 episodes this past season to really get into the hatch and get the tailies to the main survivors. I could easily see 6 episodes with two angles, the Others and what they do with Jack, Kate and Sawyer and the survivors trying to figure out what to do when Hurley comes back.

Anyway, that is all conjecture, it isn't like I work for the show.

 

[Bitter]

Damn...

I knew that Ana Lucia and Libby were shot, but did not see that coming...

Still got 4 hours to go to finish up the season...

 

[Statorama]

I'm shielding my eyes from the posts in this thread. Does anyone know where I can download season two? The official set won't be out until october

 

[Capella]

I'm shielding my eyes from the posts in this thread. Does anyone know where I can download season two? The official set won't be out until october

ended up liking it, eh?

 

[Bitter]

I'm shielding my eyes from the posts in this thread. Does anyone know where I can download season two? The official set won't be out until october

http://www.torrentportal.com/

 

[ScottNorwood]

Lets look at the credible threat levels of the known Others. We do this by looking at their personal accomplishments / successes.

Zeke:

+ Led the group that took Walt.

+ Blew up the losties' makeshift boat.

+ Personally captured Michael in the open field (with a sling no less! Nice shot!)

+ Caught Kate

+ Was outmanned by Jack's group but used torches to fake Jack out and thus successfully took the guns from Jack's group as well as forced them to return from where they came.

Cleo:

NONE

Ethan:

+ Infiltrated the fuselage group for some time before being exposed.

+ Captured Claire.

Alex:

+ Freed Claire from the clutches of the Others, allowing her to return to the losties.

Other of the tailies' group

+ Infiltrated the tailies for some time.

+ I believe he killed one of them in the nite (the guy in the pit) but I'm not sure.

Henry:

NONE

Sometimes leaders are written to be weak and incompetant. But in THIS storyline, it has been emphasized that the leader of the others is a "great man". He is feared by fellow Others. Zeke was afraid of him, and Zeke is portrayed as being extremely competant and credible! Zeke has never even failed once!

If the writers seriously have chosen Henry to be the leader, it just makes no sense. His character is not consistent in any way with the storyline we've been through. Henry has no accomplishments whatsoever, and even if you believe he somehow tweaked the relationship between Jack and Locke a little bit, that is nowhere on the credibility level of Zeke.

The storyline falls apart and the show becomes a joke.

That's exactly what Henry wants you to think. He's running the show my friend. He has you just as mixed up as the Flight 815 passengers are.

 

[packersfan]

Will a rescue effort be a part of Season 3? Mr. Lindelof and Mr. Cuse would not say but allowed that if this season was about the hatch, next season will be about the Others, as led by the oblique Henry Gale (played by Michael Emerson, who will join the regular cast). Mr. Cuse listed what viewers will learn about the Others by this time next year: "Who are these people? How many of them are there? What is their history? What are they trying to accomplish?"

Nah, Henry's not the leader of The Others. Nope.

 

[Statorama]

I'm shielding my eyes from the posts in this thread.  Does anyone know where I can download season two?  The official set won't be out until october 

http://www.torrentportal.com/

Thanks!

 

[prosopis]

WOW you guys can write. I am on page 165 and have a lot more to read. Man I hate when work gets in the way of the FFA. Especially the Lost thread.

I enjoyed last nights episode a lot.

I went to the library to see if I could get the book Bad Twin?

I reserved it but I am in a long line of people. I think I am 22nd in line. Hopefully I get it before season 3 starts.

I just got Bad Twin from the library. That was a long wait. I have read the first few chapters Widmore has been referred to. The note from the Editors is saying they assume Gary troup is dead. They also say he fell in love with a flight attendant Cindy Chandler who also "died" in the crash.Have we seen her on the show at all?

The book is ok so far but nothing spectacular.

 

[Corporation]

WOW you guys can write. I am on page 165 and have a lot more to read. Man I hate when work gets in the way of the FFA. Especially the Lost thread.

I enjoyed last nights episode a lot.

I went to the library to see if I could get the book Bad Twin?

I reserved it but I am in a long line of people. I think I am 22nd in line. Hopefully I get it before season 3 starts.

I just got Bad Twin from the library. That was a long wait. I have read the first few chapters Widmore has been referred to. The note from the Editors is saying they assume Gary troup is dead. They also say he fell in love with a flight attendant Cindy Chandler who also "died" in the crash.Have we seen her on the show at all?

The book is ok so far but nothing spectacular.

I think Cindy is the flight attendant who was captured by the Others as the Tailies and Michael, Jin, and Sawyer were coming back home.

 

[stbugs]

WOW you guys can write. I am on page 165 and have a lot more to read. Man I hate when work gets in the way of the FFA. Especially the Lost thread.

I enjoyed last nights episode a lot.

I went to the library to see if I could get the book Bad Twin?

I reserved it but I am in a long line of people. I think I am 22nd in line. Hopefully I get it before season 3 starts.

I just got Bad Twin from the library. That was a long wait. I have read the first few chapters Widmore has been referred to. The note from the Editors is saying they assume Gary troup is dead. They also say he fell in love with a flight attendant Cindy Chandler who also "died" in the crash.Have we seen her on the show at all?

The book is ok so far but nothing spectacular.

I think Cindy is the flight attendant who was captured by the Others as the Tailies and Michael, Jin, and Sawyer were coming back home.

Are you still here? The season is over. Go home. Go. Yes, Cindy was the flight attendant that was grabbed when the tailies were going to back to the fuselage camp. She would be considered "dead" to the rest of the world as would every person on the flight, so that isn't significant. From what was discussed about the book way back in the thread or maybe the Season 1 thread (not sure) was that the book wasn't really relevant, i.e. no new discoveries and that is was just an advertising/money making tool. I think that that is correct since I don't remember ever reading any interesting facts from the book.

Anyway, has anything interesting come from the summer "experience" yet? Color me lazy, but I don't feel like checking out that thread. Since this one hasn't been bumped in a while, curiosity made me read the last couple posts.

Oh well, see you in Season 3.

 

[PC Load Letter]

Are you still here?

Flashback to Ferris Bueller's closing credits.

 

[aardball44]

I thought this thread died in The Great Pruning. Happy to see it's still alive and kickin'.

 

[(HULK)]

Really freakin enormous map of the world of LOST

 

[prosopis]

WOW you guys can write. I am on page 165 and have a lot more to read. Man I hate when work gets in the way of the FFA. Especially the Lost thread.

I enjoyed last nights episode a lot.

I went to the library to see if I could get the book Bad Twin?

I reserved it but I am in a long line of people. I think I am 22nd in line. Hopefully I get it before season 3 starts.

I just got Bad Twin from the library. That was a long wait. I have read the first few chapters Widmore has been referred to. The note from the Editors is saying they assume Gary troup is dead. They also say he fell in love with a flight attendant Cindy Chandler who also "died" in the crash.Have we seen her on the show at all?

The book is ok so far but nothing spectacular.

Hanso corp is in the book.

 

[prosopis]

Really freakin enormous map of the world of LOST

That would be fun to look at if it was not so friggin huge.

 

[nase]

Really freakin enormous map of the world of LOST

That would be fun to look at if it was not so friggin huge.

Tell me about it. My browser froze, shut down, and this thing is practically brand new.

 

[EYLive]

I just finished season 2. What a load of crap. The writers need to get their act together.

 

[prosopis]

WOW you guys can write. I am on page 165 and have a lot more to read. Man I hate when work gets in the way of the FFA. Especially the Lost thread.

I enjoyed last nights episode a lot.

I went to the library to see if I could get the book Bad Twin?

I reserved it but I am in a long line of people. I think I am 22nd in line. Hopefully I get it before season 3 starts.

I just got Bad Twin from the library. That was a long wait. I have read the first few chapters Widmore has been referred to. The note from the Editors is saying they assume Gary troup is dead. They also say he fell in love with a flight attendant Cindy Chandler who also "died" in the crash.Have we seen her on the show at all?

The book is ok so far but nothing spectacular.

Hanso corp is in the book.

book was pretty dissapointing. It mentions Hanso,John Locke the philosopher,Cindy,and not much else. I suppose you can link some of the Australia stuff but all in all I am glad I got this from the library and not from Barnes and Noble.

 

[bane]

Next seasons LOST will air for 6 weeks beginning Oct 4, then it will be gone for 3 MONTHS!!!

Linky

 

[GStrot]

I just finished season 2. What a load of crap. The writers need to get their act together.

ok

 

[GStrot]

Next seasons LOST will air for 6 weeks beginning Oct 4, then it will be gone for 3 MONTHS!!!

Linky

Is this news?

 

[Crimson Hawk]

I have heard that there was a new Hanso commerical. Anyone see it? Anything interesting?

 

[Statorama]

Didn't like season two as much as season one, but it was still pretty damn good.

The survivors have done some incredibly stupid things on the island, but none more so than giving all the guns to the "others". Bunch of boneheads.

 

[Assani Fisher]

So I just watched both seasons this past week on DVD...I enjoyed it a lot. Theres a thread on 2+2 where one poster(Madtown) says that he loved season 1 but thinks that season 2 ruined it. He says he'll give 20 reasons why. Hes only given 5 so far, but I think they are well thought out, so maybe some of you will enjoy reading them. For the record, I love the show, but I do think he makes some good points...

Let's get started.Pre-emptively: What things I will not be complaining aboutThe pace information is revealedI'm a patient dude. I don't need everything explained at once. I'm cynical that they really have a "grand plan" -- every multiple season mystery show I've watched has clearly been pulling [censored] out of their ### the whole way (Alias and X-Files are prime examples). While I have yet to see the format work, I am in love with it and believe it CAN work. I have no problem with waiting for answers, even if it takes 7 seasons.Production values, actors, and visualsLost is a beautiful show, visually. One of the things that hooked me was the high production values. It looks like a movie. It uses the score and music effectively (although they overdo the emotional-slow-motion-to-music ending). The actors are fantastic -- I can't think of a single one whose performances are disappointing, other than Michelle Rodriguez. And even she wasn't SO bad. Flashbacks as a deviceAgain, I love the concept of learning about a large cast of characters through flashbacks. Season 1 episodes like "Walkabout," "Confidence Man" and "Numbers" illustrate just how effective the flashbacks can be.And I don't think that the concept must necessarily get worn out. As we've seen in the second season, new characters can be introduced. Some flashbacks can be post-crash. It can be a very effective and original tool.New charactersEko and NotHenry quickly became two of my favorite characters on the show. While Ana Lucia and Libby's characters will be among my complaints, I have no problem with new characters that are intriguing. In fact, I expect they're absolutely necessary.The Triangle/TrapezoidWhile I find JJ Abrams' fascination with Love Triangles slightly tiresome, the Jack-Kate-Sawyer+AnaLucia dynamic has had a negligible impact on me. I don't care enough about it to complain, nor do I really think it's a "bad" part of the show.The "extra" stuffI don't mind all the synergy and buried extras that have so quickly sprung up. I enjoyed reading transcriptions of The Whispers, I enjoyed checking out The Hanso Foundation's website, I enjoyed the myriad of screenshots fans managed to extract of the Dharma Shark, the murals, the glow-in-the-dark map, and on and on. That stuff is fun. And the outside stuff, like the novels and the commercials and whatever? Don't care one way or the other.First complaint coming shortly.

COMPLAIN #1 - DESMOND, PENNY, AND THE KEYLet's start poking holes in the execution of Desmond's character, shall we?Back when the season two premiere aired, I was already a little wary of Desmond. His character was cool, and the Hatch was cool. It's an idea I could get behind -- this island, filled with Lostzilla smoke monsters and panda bears and whispers and a big ship filled with dynamite and a French woman stranded for decades... was the site of a 1980s science experiment. I can dig that. Oh yes I can.But my BS-meter did rise just a little bit. For a show so concerned with demonstrating that all these characters are connected in their backstories... why didn't they have the Desmond character in a flashback somewhere in Season 1? This "shocking" reveal -- that a guy Jack had met once before landing on the island was already there -- is one of many that are poorly executed. And I'll get to the rest a bit later. But this was the first one in season 2, and probably the central thing that made me start thinking about the show a little more closely.If they knew what was in the hatch -- a science station, manned by a single person connected to one of the Losties -- why didn't they have this character buried somewhere in the first season?Because they didn't know what was in the hatch. That's the only explanation I can come up with. Nonetheless, I gave them the benefit of the doubt.Moving on to the finale, when we finally meet Desmond again. What do we learn about his time on the island, about Kelvin, about the Hatch?First, we learn that Kelvin dragged Desmond's unconscious body to the hatch. Wait a minute... that's not what Desmond said back in "Man of Faith, Man of Science" -- he said that Kelvin came running out, yelling "Hurry, hurry, come with me!" Mere sloppiness with the continuity? Maybe. There's no reason for Desmond to lie, and no reason for him to forget what actually happened. But it's minor, whatever.Another problem: why did Desmond continue shooting himself with that vaccine? Why did he ask Locke if any of their people had gotten sick? He'd seen Kelvin -- the only authority on the island Desmond really knows -- leave the hatch in a hazmat suit and then TAKE IT OFF. It seemed pretty clear at that point that the "Quarantine" was BS. After all, when he gets back, he no longer thinks the vaccine is important. And it's not like he had any sudden reason to change his mind during his few weeks at sea. He took a bunch of it with him, so if he spent a week fixing his boat, he probably continued shooting up with it. Why is it such a concern in the first episode of the season, when the finale reveals that by that point he'd already seen evidence it was not true?It's inconsistent. It's sloppy. Continuing... in the first episode, Desmond seems VERY surprised to see people. He's also very threatened by Locke and Kate. But in the finale, we learned that Locke "saved his life" by pounding on the hatch window. That the light shining up was Desmond, and that he was HAPPY to see people -- happy to see his potential replacements. Now, you could argue that he considered them a threat because they couldn't get the riddle right, so they obviously weren't Dharma people. But... neither was he. So why does he behave as he does in the premiere?Further, if he saw Locke pounding and screaming on the hatch window, why is he surprised that there are people coming into his hatch?Well... the only explanation I've got is that they didn't plan that out. That when they planned the premiere, Desmond wasn't supposed to be aware of new people on the island.Continuing... Desmond bringing down the plane. It really takes a PRINT OUT reading system failure for him to realize that he brought down the plane? I guessed that in the season premiere! And given the timeline, it's pretty ridiculous that he wouldn't have figured it out as soon as Locke told him how long they'd been on the island. It'd been, what, a month and a half? And according to his flashbacks, that was the one and only System Failure he'd seen. How does he not put 2 and 2 together in the premiere? It's not like he figured it out but didn't tell them -- he doesn't figure it out until later in the finale. Apparently Desmond's a [censored] moron. Continuing... Speaking of Desmond not figuring things out: if he'd seen a System Failure, as he did in his flashbacks -- where metal goes flying around and the building starts breaking up -- what concievable reason does he have to believe Locke? He never even SEES the tape from the Pearl. But he's seen what happens when the countdown hits 0... So why does he believe Locke? Why believe for a second that the Swan is a psych experiment when he has every reason to believe that it is NOT? Because the writers want him in the hatch, so he can do the whole redemptive thing and turn the failsafe key.Speaking of the failsafe key... HOLY DEUS EX MACHINA. I call huge shenanigans on that. First off, if he had this key that could potentially neutralize the danger of the hatch, why didn't he use it in the premiere, when the computer got shot up? Barring that, why wouldn't he tell the Losties about it, in case they couldn't fix the computer? The other big problem with the failsafe key? Jack and Sayid explored down below the floor, where the failsafe station is. In the finale, it's pretty clear and visible. How would they not have found it? It wasn't hidden at all. They didn't find it because it was a giant Deus Ex Machina -- a device for the writers to get rid of the button and hatch, because they're bored with them. Here's another fun bit... Desmond's boat had to be no more than 50 minutes (maybe less) away from the Hatch -- because he followed Kelvin out there and made it back just in time for SYSTEM FAILURE. Now, apparently, his boat was sitting out there the entire first season, right? Are you telling me that the Losties didn't stumble upon a GIANT [censored] INLET that's less than an hour away from the hatch? The writers really wrote themselves into a giant corner with the countdown's 108 minute time limit, and this is the kind of thing that results. Either the Losties are too stupid to explore the tiniest bit (oh, wait, the Losties' stupidity this season is another one of my complaints -- more later!)... or this inlet just magically appeared. And further... Desmond said he buried Kelvin. Which means he somehow made another trip out there. If he did, how in the hell did he see no signs of the crash? Surely he'd have seen some of the debris, or the bonfires, or heard screaming or talking or... something. If he DIDN'T bury Kelvin, why bother saying that he did?And to bring it all back around to my first complaint -- that Desmond wasn't foreshadowed in Season 1, instead being tossed into a flashback in the same ep he's revealed -- the finale suddenly made this season and the show hinge a WHOLE LOT on Desmond. He's the one that brought down the plane. His ex-girlfriend is a Widmore (a mysterious company possible in cahoots or in conflict with Dharma/Hanso). His ex-girlfriend is suddenly the person in the outside world trying to find the island. Why the hell should I care about Desmond THIS MUCH? He was essentially bookended the season -- he was suddenly in the hatch and in Jack's flashback to start the season, he disappears without mention for the rest of the season, until the finale when we learn that he and his ex-girlfriend (yet another character we'd never seen before, besides a single blurry photo) are probably key parts of Widmore and any potential rescue. A "twist" is only satisfying when it is both foreshadowed and unexpected. The satisfaction comes in being able to go back, find the clues that pointed to it, and be amazed that you didn't piece it together earlier. But there were no clues for Desmond in Season 1. And there were no clues pointing to the importance of Penny in Season 2.As someone on Television Without Pity's Lost boards said:Quote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The ending pretty much makes the entire *show hinge on Desmond, and makes the Lostaways pretty much a footnote in his larger story. While the cause of the crash gave us an answer, it kind of negates all the entire concept of the show, which previously hinged on a certain group of people having been chosen to crash on a desert island. But suddenly, they're not so special, and all the crossing paths really does seem like a series of random coincidences, because as we learned last night, they landed on the island not because they were chosen, but because Desmond didn't push the freaking button! And furthermore, the entire show is now a tiny part of the epic love story between Desmond and Penelope. Don't get me wrong -- I actually really like all the parallels to "The Odyssey" -- but I don't like how it negates the characters I've spent two seasons caring about. The Lostaways just became filler in their own story.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I don't necessarily agree that the entire SHOW hinges on Desmond, but it sure puts a whole lot of emphasis on Penny and Desmond -- two characters that we've seen for all of, what, about 3 episodes (Desmond was in the first three eps, but since it was essentially the same scene three times, I'm not going to count each one individually)? 3 episodes that came without foreshadowing in the second season?Conclusion/Summary: I really liked the idea of Desmond and The Hatch. Hell, I still like what they tried to do with him in the finale in theory. But when you create truck-sized inconsistencies with a character -- his behavior in "Man of Science, Man of Faith" is utterly incompatible with the revelations of "Live Together, Die Alone" -- I stop believing that they had this planned out. This finale is one gigantic retcon attempt. If they had this planned out, there were much better, cohesive, cogent ways of portraying Desmond. And even if they DIDN'T, they did a terrible job with the retcon. It is clear, IMO, that they came up with him being in the hatch... and then much later in the season, came up with his story in the finale. And instead of working out the kinks to ensure that the finale story would match with the premiere story, they decided to make Desmond do what they wanted him to do in their clever finale idea. They forced an oval peg into a round hole, instead of shaving the sides down to fit what they had already established.

COMPLAINT #2 - TOO MANY FLASHBACKS WERE REDUNDANT, POINTLESS, OR HAM-FISTEDWhich ones am I talking about? I'll go through them one by one. It's not all of them -- there's a handful of really good flashbacks in this season, and there's others I hesitate to criticize because future flashbacks may make them seem more relevant. And some of them, while kind of mediocre, still gave us additional insight into the characters. But there are some that were downright redundant, pointless, and ham-fisted. I'll praise the ones I really liked at the end, but for now, let's get to the bad ones.Episode 202 - Adrift - Michael FlashbackThese flashbacks focuses on Michael's legal fight with Susan to keep Walt. We already knew everything about this, even if we didn't see it. We knew that Michael let Susan take Walt to Amsterdam, that he had been in a car accident, that he hadn't seen his son in a long time, and that he eventually gave custody rights to Susan and Brian. We knew that he felt guilty for not knowing his son well, and for letting Susan take Walt from him.So what was the purpose of this flashback? Obviously, knowing how the rest of the season unfolds for Michael, to reinforce the guilt he feels regarding Walt. But his present-day island dialogue does a FINE job of doing that on it's own (as does his soon-to-become-annoying habit of screaming "WAAAAAAAALT" and saying "MAH BOY"). None of the events in this flashback are news to us. Neither is Michael's guilt.The most important part of this flashback I can come up with is, well, Michael gives YoungWalt a stuffed bear. Of course, we heard nothing of the island polar bears in the rest of season 2 other than a glimpse in the Orientation film, and with Walt and Michael motoring off into the sunset it is doubtful (although certainly not impossible) that we'll ever find out just what was going on with Walt and the bears.Verdict: Redundant, pointless, AND ham-fisted.Episode 206 - Abandoned - Shannon FlashbackOh, I won't go into this too much, because I'll be addressing my dissatisfaction with Shannon's death later. But that's my primary problem with this flashback -- that her death essentially makes her flashback (and the Boone/Shannon flashback from season 1's "Hearts and Minds") pointless. With both characters dead, and no one left on the island that knew them, we won't learn anything substantial about their story beyond these flashbacks. So why should I care, in the scheme of things, about Shannon's troubles with her stepmother after her father's death?What bothers me most about this one is, it actually made me even more interested in Shannon before she bit it. It was a fairly good flashback.Verdict: Pointless.Episode 209 - What Kate Did - Kate FlashbackOh, this one was close to being a good flashback. While What Kate Did wasn't surprising, it was set-up very well. From last season, we could guess it probably had something to do with her family -- after the tape with the ex-boyfriend doctor that she gets killed, and her mother's reaction to her, it seemed fair to guess it was a father-type. But unlike the more disappointing "surprises" this season (again, something for a future write-up!), this one was fine. I didn't expect What Kate Did to be a big huge surprise like some fans did, and I wasn't disappointed that it was roughly what I guessed. What DID suck?Kate's reason for killing Wayne. Are you kidding me? Killing someone because you can't stand the thought of the guy being your real father? I literally laughed out loud. To protect her mother, sure. Because he may have molested Kate, or at least wanted to, I can buy that. I could even buy some other reason that we didn't know about -- I'm sure Wayne did plenty of terrible things. But please. Her speech at the end about why she killed Wayne was ridiculous.That said, it's probably the least-bad of the flashback's I'm going over. Verdict: Ham-fisted.Episode 211 - The Hunting Party - Jack FlashbackWell, uhm, yeah. My complaints re: this ep's flashback are a mix of Kate's and Michael's. While we did learn a few plot points about Jack's past -- specifically, the exact details of how his marriage fell apart -- we didn't learn anything new about Jack himself. We already knew these character traits -- Jack is only able lead when he is fixing something. We'd only seen that play out 27 times before (both in flashback and on the island). He kissed a chick who's father he was unable to fix, only to find out that his neglect of Sarah had pushed her to start seeing someone else.This would all be forgivable -- because, after all, we did learn the details of an event that were previously unknown -- if it wasn't punctuated by Sarah's anvilicious "You will always need something to fix" comment. You know, just in case no one had figured that out yet.Verdict: Slightly redundant, ham-fisted.Episode 212 - Fire + Water - Charlie FlashbackI realize it may sound like I hated every episode of this season. I didn't. With some of these flashbacks, I really liked the stuff going on back at the island. And sometimes, I really liked the flashbacks, but hated the island stuff. Sometimes, I even liked both.But "Fire + Water," as a whole, was easily the worst of Season 2.Sticking to the flashback (because the island action from this ep will be in another write-up), did we learn anything about Charlie here that we didn't already know -- either in terms of specific life events, or character traits?Well, I guess we learned that he appeared in a Huggies commercial.We didn't see a new side of Charlie, nor Liam, nor did we learn anything new -- Liam being a terrible older brother and terrible father? Liam sacrifices The Music to get clean? You don't say!Verdict: Redundant, pointless.Episode 213 - The Long Con - Sawyer FlashbackHoly crap! Sawyer's a cold-blooded conman! He's willing to manipulate women to the extreme! I had no idea!Again, some of my bitterness with this ep ties into the island action -- namely, that Sawyer as "The New Sheriff In Town" went all of nowhere -- but even putting that aside, we didn't learn a thing about Sawyer here that we didn't already know. I mean, we learned the details of a particular con he pulled, but... well, so? It didn't tell us anything about HIM. And again, I return to the point that Lost is supposedly a character-driven show. All this flashback did, IMO, was remind us that "Hey, Sawyer's a ruthless conman!"Verdict: Redundant, pointless.Other flashbacks that I wasn't a big fan of, but didn't feel were totally worthless:One of Them - Sayid's flashback to torturing his Commanding OfficerLockdown - Locke's dad fakes his death, Locke helps him, Helen breaks things offSOS - Rose and Bernard flashbackThree Minutes - Michael's time with the OthersWhich flasbacks did I particularly like?The Other 48 Days - The Tail survivors' previous 48 days on the islandThe 23rd Psalm - Eko's first flashbackMaternity Leave - What happened when Claire was kidnapped by EthanDave - Hurley in the mental institutionThe rest I didn't list, I thought were good but not worth special mention.

COMPLAINT #3 - THE DEATHS OF BOONE, SHANNON and ANA-LUCIAOne of the primary events in Season 1 is the death of Boone. This event leads other major Losties to ask Locke about the hatch, forces Jack to accept that he cannot save everyone, drives Locke further into his faith-in-the-island by saying Boone was a "sacrifice," and continues the rift between Jack and Locke.However, one of the most promising aspects of his death was the potential change it would bring to Shannon. Up to this episode, Shannon's characterization was inextricably linked to Boone's. She was a brat because she was a former rich kid who relied on Boone for support -- money before the crash, or to retrieve her missing asthma inhalers and emotionally support her during attacks. By pulling Boone, her sole source of help and dependence, out from under her, there was the opportunity to really develop her character. But we don't really see much of Shannon again until the episode she dies, in which a last-minute cram job is done to finish our her backstory with Boone and bring her "arc" to a close by showing her pushing away Sayid to prove she's reliable and can take care of others (Vincent and a phantom!Walt). Then Ana-Lucia kills her.The producers claim they ran out of story for a young woman. I find that pretty ridiculous. Boone had some development in the first season on the island, particularly with Locke. We got to know him a bit and we got to see him change over several episodes before he died. He set various events into motion, as I listed above. But Shannon did neither. Excluding her death episode, she changes very little, unless you read a LOT more depth into her relationship with Sayid than I do. In the second season, she's an almost non-existent character until her death episode. Further, she set no plot actions in motion, either during the first season or the second... with the exception of her death.When she died, it wasn't long before we got to see Ana Lucia's meltdown and cop past. I was prepared to overlook the death of Shannon. If they weren't going to do anything with her as a character, then perhaps her death would put some motion into Ana Lucia coming to terms with her past and becoming a "good" person. I love a redemption arc, and this actually made me excited about the Ana Lucia character more than I'd ever been.But once again, very little happened to Ana Lucia's character. We find out that she had to go on the run (with Jack's Dad OMG) in Australia, but by and large, nothing in her backstory could develop her given we'd seen what could be considered THE MAJOR EVENT in her life. On the island, she almost gets something in Jack's Army, which never materializes. She largely continues playing the cop role. And then she gets shot by Michael. So, ultimately, what did the death of Shannon do, exactly, to Ana Lucia? Not a whole lot, beyond the scene when she realizes she can't bring herself to kill Not!Henry. Once again, the character development is given little time and put RIGHT BEFORE a character's death. It would have been effective had both Shannon and Ana Lucia gone through these developments over the course of several episodes, but as it was, I just thought "Why should I care? They were barely fleshed out before this, and now they're dead!"The other main character that could have been affected by Shannon's death? Sayid.Who we see grieving in brief moments, and then he returns to soldier mode. The grief was minimal -- the only effective moments of which were his interrogations of Not!Henry when he discusses burying her, which DID work very well. And Ana Lucia's death? It serves as a plot motivation to send them after the Others, but once again, who did it affect? Who did it change? The main one that it could have affected, her killer Michael, just sailed off into the sunset. We don't see him dealing with the ramifications of his murder, we don't see him dealing with the cost of killing two people to save his son... he's off the island.Essentially, these three character deaths boil down to events that move the PLOT. Now I don't begrudge that. While the way they move the plot in some instances seems a little off in nitpicky ways, I largely enjoyed the plot developments that result from each death. But this show has been constantly described as a character driven show, a show full of character studies. And yet, THREE MAJOR CHARACTERS DIE within about a two month timeframe (in the show's timeline). None of them have led developments of the remaining survivors in any significant way. And with all the killers gone or dead, they have no ties remaining survivors beyond those forged during their time ON the island: Boone and Locke, Shannon and Sayid, Ana Lucia and Eko/Jack/Sawyer. The first two were dealt with and buried quickly, and I doubt Ana's death will affect much development in Eko/Jack/Sawyer.For a character-driven show, I expected these deaths to CHANGE THESE PEOPLE. Not just drive events. I expected them to change the people that would be affected by them. But by and large, they didn't.

COMPLAINT #4 - THE TWISTSAs I've said in a previous write-up, "twists" are only exciting when they are consistent with previous events and surprising. In the first season, most of the twists were surprising, and often were foreshadowed. One of the best examples is Locke's former paralysis: it was consistent with his island behavior previous to "Walkabout," and throughout his flashbacks in that episode there's foreshadowing that Locke was inadequate, considered weak and a pushover by his coworkers, and had fantasies that were somehow unreachable. However, I was still shocked when they cut to him behind that desk, rolling his wheelchair to yell at the guide in Australia. This example also illustrates that a good twist does not need to be planned out in advance. They didn't know that this would be a part of Locke's backstory when they wrote the pilot. But they wrote it very elegantly, without ignoring/violating anything previously established about Locke. The same can be said of Sawyer's backstory in "Confidence Man," or the revelation that Locke is the one who sabotaged Sayid's radio triagulation, or Hurley's Numbers connection. While some had less foreshadowing (or none at all), none of them violated anything we'd seen of these characters or the island, and all were quite surprising twists.The second season's twists often fail on at least one of those criteria.Desmond as the man in the Hatch: Not surprising. As previously discussed, I was disappointed that Desmond hadn't been foreshadowed in the first season, as opposed to "Man of Science, Man of Faith." However, it was still consistent, because, well, he's a new character. However, it was NOT surprising. The way this episode plays out in the final moments, it's clear we're supposed to be surprised that the Hatch Man is the guy from Jack's flashback. I wasn't. I called it the moment Desmond started talking to him. For this to be shocking, Desmond should have been introduced back in Season 1... OR... the other option... they shouldn't have shown that there was a man in the hatch at all. The opening scene of Desmond's interrupted life in the hatch compeletely tipped their hand, and while it was a very cute and funny introduction (especially when watched right after "Exodus"), it was unnecessary.Ana Lucia as an "Other": I believe this was in "Orientation." I'm referring to the tail survivors throwing Ana Lucia into the pit. This is a minor "twist," but I'm being thorough. Again, my impression is that we were supposed to be surprised when Ana grabs the gun from Sawyer and is revealed as one of their captors. I wasn't.Shannon's death: She got laid. She dies. Besides that, it was a Shannon-centric episode, with the tail section (toting a gun) heading in the Losties direction and spooked by Others. As I griped about in the previous entry, she hadn't recieved any attention this season. It was pretty obvious that she was going to bite it once she started wandering off to chance phantom Walt.Goodwin's EEEEEEVIL: Not surprising at all. Again, given the presentation (the "he's helping Nathan out of the pit... PSYCH! NECK SNAP!" scene), we're supposed to be surprised here. I wasn't. Ana Lucia was PREGNANT!: I would have been much more intrigued if she'd been a lesbian. Honestly. The scene with the psychiatrist set the pregnant thing up, and her refusing to ID him cinched that she was going to kill him (her psycho behavior on her first day out certainly made me think that might happen anyway). But when I watched the scene with the psychiatrist, I remember thinking that it was fairly vague about her personal life other than that she was having relationship problems. I'd have to rewatch to see if they're explicit that she was seeing a dude, but I remember at the time, at least, thinking that it'd have been much cooler if she'd been gay. I don't see how that'd possibly tie in to her killing the guy who shot her. It wouldn't, really, but it'd have been a better "twist." I'd actually love to have seen a Pulp Fiction style flashback, where we start with her killing the dude (without saying "I WAS PREGNANT OMG"), and track backwards through her choosing not to ID the guy, etc, and find out that she was pregnant in her session. Charlie helped Sawyer steal the guns: Well, let's see. He'd just been outcast. They stole his Mary Heroin statues. Not surprising at all -- but worse, it's inconsistent with his character in my opinion. Until now, he's been a character desperate for a form of redemption. Now he's suddenly eeeeevil enough to attack Sun and help Sawyer get the guns at the potential cost of everyone else's safety. It just didn't work for me.Sawyer, Ana Lucia, and the gun: Once again. Called that Ana Lucia was going to jump him the moment they started talking. Called her taking the gun shortly after. Neither was surprising, despite being presented as such -- since the two hadn't interacted much at all since the trek across the island, it certainly was supposed to be a sudden, shocking event. It wasn't. Michael kills Ana Lucia: I'll admit, M. Rod's DUI certainly hurt this twist. Nonetheless, it was such an obvious thing anyway (so obvious that the characters themselves should have thought about it... wait, that's a future complaint) -- Michael just got back from a trip to find The Others. So single-minded was he about trying to find Walt that he knocked Locke out and locked Jack and Locke into the gun area. Perhaps he might be dangerous? Plus, Ana had sex. Sex = death.The Button Really Does Something: Again, not surprising at all.I already know what the primary rebuttal to this is: it's not the writers' fault if I "saw everything coming." Well, you're right. If I'm all alone in this feeling, then it isn't a flaw of the show. I can still complain about it, because I was genuinely disappointed with many of these "twists." But if the majority of viewers were legitimately surprised, I'll admit that it's a less valid criticism. But it's a complaint nonetheless, and I suspect that many did feel this way. More importantly, this season seemed to utilize the "twist" more often. In the first season, there were often surprising dramatic flourishes -- finding the hatch window, for example, or hearing the French transmission, etc etc etc. But there were fewer "PSYCH!" moments, and when they were used, they were much more effective. Many of these "twists" I listed could have been handled without trying to be surprising. Goodwin being evil could have been played straight, with heavy hints hints and without a sudden reveal. They really went to the well on this a bit too often, IMO.

COMPLAINT #5 - EVERYTHING'S (not) ABOUT TO CHANGEThe ABC promo monkeys endlessly wail each week that a shocking development will occur in the next episode. Some of these were addressed in the last complaint -- that the twists just weren't twisty this year. And no, I'm not going to ##### about the work of promo monkeys -- every drama does this, and while annoying it's not a problem particular to Lost.This complaint is about two developments that COULD have thrown the show into an entirely new alignment -- developments that are implied to have immediate and wide-reaching importance -- that the writers completely abandoned. JACK STARTS AN ARMYAt the end of episode 12, "The Hunting Party," Jack sits with the outcast Ana Lucia and, after confirming that she was a former cop and had killed one of the others, asks her how long it would take to train an army. The music swells, and the LOST closing tag slams. Expectations, at least in my mind, were huge. It seemed they'd found a narrative thrust -- something for the Losties to be DOING over the next months, besides pushing that damn button. It sets up potential scenarios for why the button will fail to be pushed by season's end (an inevitable plot point from the moment we saw the countdown). Perhaps the Losties form up an army, and after an attack by the Others they would do some recon and plan a counter-attack -- of course, setting the Others to dupe them into leaving the hatch vulnerable. Or perhaps Jack's Army would cause a split in the group, with some following Locke and some joining Jack, and that rift would lead to the countdown failure. Training an army would also be the first pro-active action by the Losties. Everything else has been survival (looking for the cockpit, finding fresh water, launching the raft), defense (moving to the caves, blowing open the hatch), or reactive (chasing Rousseau when she took the baby). Taking the fight to the Others would mark a significant shift in the group's approach, and could develop in numerous interesting ways.Of course, they never did a single thing with it. The first episode to follow "The Hunting Party" was the ridiculous Charlie-centric "Fire + Water." The second was "The Long Con," which leads me to the second half of this entry...THERE'S A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWNSawyer steals the guns. Which puts the Army to an early death, it's only use in assisting Sawyer in his con by playing Jack, Kate, Locke and Ana Lucia against one another. Okay, whatever. The Army story could still play out once they get the guns back (which you know they will). And besides, Sawyer getting the guns could have led interesting directions. His speech highlights Jack and Locke's leadership status, and positions himself as a new, dictatorial leader of the group.Frankly, tired of Jack and Locke's childish arguing that never led to real conflict OR resolution, the prospect of Sawyer as an island overlord -- even temporarily -- was refreshing. Of course, this was quickly upended by the discovery of NotHenry. Sawyer's control of the guns never played a major role in the story. It was an annoyance for Jack and Locke, to be brought up and dismissed at a whim... resolved by an f'n HAND OF POKER.Given both developments implied a massive shift in the island's status quo, you'd expect them to be major parts of the second season's narrative arc. But in retrospect, they're footnotes. The impact of both were severely blunted within weeks of airing. Neither is every remotely close to a primary development of the season -- status belonging instead to The Hatch, the tail survivors and NotHenry. Excluding the complaints I've made about those three aspects, I have no problem with them taking precedence over the Army and Sawyer's gun theft. But if you're not going to do anything serious with these bombshells, why introduce them, particularly in such dramatic ways? The Army idea could have been addressed casually, in a walk-and-talk conversation on the beach, downplayed as a minor, common sense development. Sawyer's gun-theft should have been abandoned entirely, or moved earlier in the season, or saved for a later season.

 

[Assani Fisher]

My guesses....

Where is the Others home?

They have no permanent home. Before the plane crashed, they pretty much had the whole island to themselves(except for Desmond).

Where was Sayid during all the talking?

He set off the black smoke and was waiting for Jack to meet up with him as they had planned.

Is Hurley going to see Sayid on his way back?

I doubt this will be that important.

Are Michael and Walt gone for good?

Probably not

Who are these Russians and why would they know about Electromagnetism?

Penny Widmore hired then to monitor something electromagnetic

Are Desmond, Locke and Eko dead?

no. Thats too many characters to kill off. Desmond maybe, but not all 3. And why do you ignore Charlie. Wasn't he in there too?

What exactly happened when the key turned?  (Possible reason is this is the clue that gave the Russians their sign)

It destroyed the hatch somehow. No clue what else.

Does Jack have a back up plan that might involve Sayid a bit more?

I doubt Sayid can find them now

What is with the tubes from the Pearl?

All of the hatches are very real "experiments" and do work together.

What happens now with the button?

There probably isnt a button anymore, but even if there is, I think whatever Desmond did makes it meaningless

Is there any other purpose for the Losties now that the button has been destroyed?

I'm sure they'll come up with new stuff.

Is there any chance of escape for any one other than Michael/Walt?

yes

What has the ouside world been up to now that Desmond's girlfriend has a lead on his whereabouts?

living life normally.

Desmond mentioned Fiji and he should have been there.  Where is this island and why does Henry think no one will find them?

Perhaps by some mysterious power you can't leave the island, which is why Desmond wasn't successful in leaving.

Damnit... same time next year.

 

[Assani Fisher]

But magnets still shouldn't attract sailboats.  That part is silly.

I don't think it did and I don't think anyone said that. Just coincidence that he was lost in the same area. If she wasn't Widmore's daughter she doesn't have any clue about the island.By the way, did you not catch the part with the storm and how he was knocked unconscious from the waves crashing on his boat. The storm crashed his boat, he just drifted to the island.

Not that I think the electromagnetism crashed Desmond's boat, but does anyone else think its interesting that Kelvin first told Desmond that there was no boat and then spent months fixing that boat in secret?

It looked to me like there was more than one guy in yellow suits at first, before Des was dragged to the hatch, right?

I thought so too.

 

[Assani Fisher]

AND WHAT'S UP WITH THE "LOOK" JACK AND KATE EXCHANGED AT THE VERY END???????????  IT WAS A CONFIDENT NOD.

I saw that too. I almost expected them to be in cahoots with Henry and company at that point. Looked like it was going to be one of those WWE moments where a wrestler turns bad.

FWIW wikipedia's episode guide explains it as:"Back on the pier, Jack and Kate exchange knowing looks, which seems to anger Sawyer. "

 

[Assani Fisher]

From another board: Okay. Here is my grand theory. Desmond said that the whole island is a snow globe and that there was nothing but the Island and water. Now, let's see, the sky turned white...That doesn't happen normally obviously. Well, maybe the whole island is a snow globe. Maybe the whole island is: Island and Water contained somehow. Maybe there is only one area of the containment field or whatever that one is able to leave through, which is where Michael and Walt were told to go (325 degrees). And maybe, if this whole island is contained, maybe it moves? And since Desmond's girlfriend was the daughter of Widmore, she must know a lot about the island. Maybe she knows he is there (it could have been her father's plan to get Desmond stuck there) and now, she set up a search team to find the island, since it moves. Now that the electromagnetic signature was found, they called her saying they found It: The Island. And it's not like there isn't a huge amount of evidence. It's a freaking research lab. It's supposed to be isolated. And they have artificially created or atleast altered animals. Sounds like a snow globe to me...------------------------------Rememeber when there was a food drop? Didn't the doors shut, alams go off. Maybe te "shield" was turned off so thing scaould fall on the island.

very nice theory imo. The food drop is something that always has had me baffled.

 

[Assani Fisher]

OK.

1. The island itself is somehow "lost". This is quite clear now. Its like some sort of Bermuda Triangle. We get this from numerous references. Henry telling us "God doesn't know about this island" several episodes ago. Desmond couldn't find a way out. And there is a specific heading that must be taken to get off the island. I guess the magnetism anomalies are somehow hiding this island and cutting it off.

2. The "others" are obviously not a part of Dharma at all. They may in fact be "good guys" somehow trying to fix the magnetism issue.

3. Henry Gayle may or may not be the leader of the Others. I question it for a couple reasons. One, the hooks for the show were that we find out what crashed the plane and we find out what happens when the button isn't pressed. I think they would have also said "we find out who the leader is". The other reason I think he may just be middle management is that, with everyone asking "are you him?" they would confirm his identity by having someone ask "are you him?" and him saying "yes".

4. The ancient statue probably is a clue that the island has been lost for thousands of years. Whatever magnetic issue is on the island is a natural event that is being harnessed, controlled or monitored by the system in place.

5. Explain the food drops. Ok, someone at Dharma obviously knows the location. But its also obvious other people at the top do not know the location of the island. Best guess there is that the Hanso / Dharma project is so clandestine in nature after 20 years of screwing around that literally no-one knows everything that is going on, not even the highest levels. Or it could be that someone at the top really does know and its all a big game. Should be one or the other though.

Also when he was captured and being questioned he referenced another leader of his group.

 

[Assani Fisher]

2.  The "others" are obviously not a part of Dharma at all.  They may in fact be "good guys" somehow trying to fix the magnetism issue.

The big question that I have about the Others is why they were so unfriendly towards those who crashed. I truly don't believe the Others are evil, so they have to have some motive.Also a big question I have: So far, we've seen the Others treat all of their captives fairly well- Claire, Walt, Kate, and Michael were all captured and none of them ended up being hurt in any way physically(although they did "tests" to Walt and drugged Claire). So what about all of those people that they captured from Ana Lucia/Bernard/Eko's group during the first day and the 8th day on the island?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Another thing about Henry supposedly being the leader.When Sayid was about to shoot and kill him (and there's no doubt he would have followed through) why did Henry plea that Sayid had no idea what HE will do to Henry if he answered Sayid's questions? There's that HE again.

maybe Henry is the leader of the Others but the real LEADER of the island is the one who is controlling everything like the food drops. What exactly was Sayid asking him when he said that?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Another thing about Henry supposedly being the leader.

When Sayid was about to shoot and kill him (and there's no doubt he would have followed through) why did Henry plea that Sayid had no idea what HE will do to Henry if he answered Sayid's questions?  There's that HE again.

Just a trick. Nearly everything Henry said was a lie and everything he did was to manipulate. He's definitely the leader of The Others.

Why would the leader be traveling all by himself like that where he could get captured though?

 

[Assani Fisher]

Another thing about Henry supposedly being the leader.

When Sayid was about to shoot and kill him (and there's no doubt he would have followed through) why did Henry plea that Sayid had no idea what HE will do to Henry if he answered Sayid's questions?  There's that HE again.

Just a trick. Nearly everything Henry said was a lie and everything he did was to manipulate. He's definitely the leader of The Others.

yeah, but until this episode, Zeke was apparently the leaderI think there is a character yet to be introduced who is really the leader.

Gotcha, you don't even watch the show do you? You just read this thread and pretend, you have been working on this shtick for 2 seasons, man that is dedication.For your information, Zeke and Ethan talked about Him and how Ethan kidnapping Claire wasn't in the plans and would tick Him off, and that was weeks ago.

Henry is clearly the leader based on Zeke's response to him about why he didn't have the beard on.

What the hell is the big deal with having a beard anyway? Is there anyone on the island that would recognize him as someone else without the beard??BTW, sorry for posting a hundred times in a row here, but I've been watching this show so much this past week and I missed out on this thread the first time around.

 

[Assani Fisher]

And how did the supposed leader get caught so easily by Rouseau?

It's been speculated he allowed himself to be caught so that he could infiltrate the group. Remember he told Locke that his mission was to come and take Locke back with them. So he clearly needed to get into the group in some way in order to accomplish that goal. The best way to do it would be to be captured and then use manipulation to divide and conquer.Which is exactly what happened.

If his goal(and the goal of the Others) was to get Locke, then why on earth wouldn't they put Locke's name on the list they gave to Michael to bring with him. What could've possibly changed where they wanted him then but had no need for him anymore?

 

[Assani Fisher]

I don't think he was incompetent - he definitely split Locke and Jack, and he got a lot of information while inside. He got Michael in and out, and got Anna Lucia killed - and I'm sure he wanted that done for a while.

I REALLY don't think he meant to be captured, though - how would he know Rousseau would turn him over to the Lost folks instead of assassinating him herself?

I doubt this is true, but is it possible that she is the leader? Obviously John said "HE" but it could've been a ploy. Or is it at least possible that she is an Other. That would make sense as to why he got captured so easily.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Another thing about Henry supposedly being the leader.

When Sayid was about to shoot and kill him (and there's no doubt he would have followed through) why did Henry plea that Sayid had no idea what HE will do to Henry if he answered Sayid's questions?  There's that HE again.

Just a trick. Nearly everything Henry said was a lie and everything he did was to manipulate. He's definitely the leader of The Others.

I haven't seen it mentioned before, but Gale MUST have entered the numbers when Locke was pinned under the door. But then why did he plant the seed that the Numbers were worthless? He must have wanted the Electromagnetic Anamoly to go off.. but why?

Odd that the Others had no reaction to the sky-whiting explosion(?). No "WTF was that??" Sure they winced.. but maybe Henry WANTS the Russians to find them.

This is just me thinking out loud.....

It was my understanding that if Desmond didn't enter and turn the key everyone would've died. I can't imagine the Others welcomed that.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Something that is bothering me, but hasn't been mentioned yet.

After the "explosion," Charlies show up in a good mood.  When asked what that was he said "what, that?"  Then when asked where Locke and Eko were he acts surprised and says "they aren't back yet?"

He was in far too good of a mood for what he had just experienced.  Something about him changed...

I was just talking about that at work....something was very odd about how Charlie was acting. He was not acting as though he was just through this very traumatic experience. So that begs the question...did anything happen to the Swan Hatch at all? Was the white light/noise from that hatch or from somewhere else on the island? I know we saw the quarantined hatch door falling from the sky, but that didn't mean the hatch is gone.

My favorite part of this episode was when Henry said they "were the good guys". Very interesting.

Clancy Brown was great playing the Kelvin role. I really liked him.

I'm pretty sure I've heard this before...maybe from the "other 48 days" episode.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Does it bother anyone that Michael murdered 2 people in cold-blood and walks away like nothing happened. Not only that, but when the group found out he had killed them, their reaction was more akin to him having kicked a puppy instead of killing 2 people. That is unforgiving of the writers. Lost fans, say hello to Alias's fate.

especially bad since the group got so upset at Locke for "killing" Boone.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Did anyone else notice at the end when the Others picked Jack, Kate and Sawyer up off the deck that the woman who picked up Kate grabbed her boobies first and then picked her up from under the arm?Maybe that's why they didn't want Hurley. Planning a little love party later with the 3 musketeers. Anyway, back to the originally scheduled discussion.

totally noticed this btw...had to rewind a few times too.

 

[Assani Fisher]

how do the others know all of their names, especially sawyers, who very few of the losties even know by real name?

Hurley knows everybody's real name because he had the list from the plane. Any chance Hurley is working with the Others somehow?

Also when they gave Michael the list, what was the point of having everyone's first and last name and what was the point of having Sawyer's real name?

 

[Angry Cheesehead]

I read the post earlier about the "smoke monster", and how we may have seen it without knowing that was had seen it.

Can anyone think of some times when this may have happened? The best I can think of is during the final episode, when Jack thought he saw Sayid's signal fire, and then they were "attacked".

 

[Assani Fisher]

It's probably in the thread somewhere, but was it ever determined why Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sawyer were the four the Others requested that Michael bring back with him?

Nope but it's clear The Others want Jack, Kate and Sawyer for some purpose. Hurley appeared to just be someone added to the list so he could be used to warn everyone to not pursue The Others again. Jack, Kate and Sawyer are the keys. We also know Locke is important to The Others as well (he was the reason Henry wanted to infiltrate the Losties' camp).

This bothered me, as they previously had Kate in their possesion, and Locke (who they supposedly want also), Jack, and Sawyer surrounded.Why not take them then?

Perhaps something changed. Perhaps they did not want them back then but after learning something from Walt or from someone else they had a plan. Or perhaps their "leader" who does not live on the island told them to get them after that first time had already happened.

 

[Assani Fisher]

Don't know if this was mentioned.What was up with that Snowman joke that both Locke & Kelvin asked Desmond? When Kelvin asked it, he preceded it with "Are you him?" , or something of that nature. Locke asked it as he approached Desmond in the beginning.

I'm pretty sure Desmond asked Locke the joke. Desmond had heard it from Kelvin.

 

[Assani Fisher]

It's probably in the thread somewhere, but was it ever determined why Hurley, Jack, Kate and Sawyer were the four the Others requested that Michael bring back with him?

Nope but it's clear The Others want Jack, Kate and Sawyer for some purpose. Hurley appeared to just be someone added to the list so he could be used to warn everyone to not pursue The Others again. Jack, Kate and Sawyer are the keys. We also know Locke is important to The Others as well (he was the reason Henry wanted to infiltrate the Losties' camp).

This bothered me, as they previously had Kate in their possesion, and Locke (who they supposedly want also), Jack, and Sawyer surrounded.Why not take them then?

Maybe they didn't want them at the time. They were just giving a warning, but now that the group has shown they'll ignore the warning, the others are trying to "decapitate" them. Jack, Sawyer, and Kate have been very active with the group plans. The piece that puzzles me is why not Locke? Unless Fake Henry (Fenry?) knows that Locke is already "broken."

I thought the reason was because they know of the location of the first hideout of the Others which they discovered during their first meeing with Zeke. But then why not Locke too?

 

[Assani Fisher]

another random question:

If we believe that its just the Dharma group or Widmore, then you're taking the stance that its not supernatural but its all a scheme of some group. That fails to account for the dreams and visions people have been having.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

another random question:If we believe that its just the Dharma group or Widmore, then you're taking the stance that its not supernatural but its all a scheme of some group. That fails to account for the dreams and visions people have been having.

They could be hallucinations deliberately induced by the food or environment.