**OFFICIAL Management Thread** (1 Viewer)

[Keerock]

I manage a mostly outstanding team of 15 technical people (DBAs).  They all, of course, have their strong and weak characteristics (both personal and professional).  I sometimes struggle with how to deal with some of those weaker traits.  Thought this might be a good forum to discuss my experiences and anyone else's.

Here is my current issue:

Extremely detail oriented guy who takes ownership in his work.  He's been very frustrated with folks from another area (application developers) who can't seem to get their act together.  Our team provides support to theirs so we sit in on meetings where we discuss what they need from us.  Problem is, they are very unorganized and not at all thorough.  He sometimes will take over their meetings (mostly in a good way) because they lack any project management capabilities.  But... when he gets frustrated he can be very condescending almost to the point of arrogance.

I've had several conversations with him about it, but it seems he can't help himself.  FWIW, he's not like this within out team AT ALL... in fact, while he typically has great opinions and solutions, he is quite humble about them within our team.

Thoughts on how to handle?   

 

[Long Ball Larry]

:subscribe:

after many years of managing many people, i have started to wonder how you can ever really get people to change a lot of their behaviors.  some things work gradually.  some things of course can be corrected through various incentives, but a lot of things can be smaller traits and interpersonal things that can be hard quantify and therefore hard to incentivize.

Doesn't really answer the question, but who manages the other team?  Is there a way to get them more organized?  That might at least solve part of the problem.  I think that often cases like this tend to be the result of annoyances built up over time and then one is more prone to see any misstep as terrible.  Maybe reducing some of that frustration in the short term would help to set the stage for making the issue more correctable.

 

[Gally]

I agree with  LB Larry above.  It's probably a good time to meet with the manager of the other group to voice the frustrations with the lack of organization.  It may help show your employee you are trying to get at the problem from the top to help things improve.  Obviously if nothing changes then the frustrations will remain but to some degree you and your employee have no control over the other guys.  It probably will get to a point (if the other manager doesn't help things) where your group needs to step back and let them fail up to a point.......not where it reflects bad on your group but sometimes in order to make improvements the negatives have to be seen by others. 

 

[Keerock]

:subscribe:

after many years of managing many people, i have started to wonder how you can ever really get people to change a lot of their behaviors.  some things work gradually.  some things of course can be corrected through various incentives, but a lot of things can be smaller traits and interpersonal things that can be hard quantify and therefore hard to incentivize.

Doesn't really answer the question, but who manages the other team?  Is there a way to get them more organized?  That might at least solve part of the problem.  I think that often cases like this tend to be the result of annoyances built up over time and then one is more prone to see any misstep as terrible.  Maybe reducing some of that frustration in the short term would help to set the stage for making the issue more correctable.

That first paragraph is spot on!

As for the second... the manager is a HUGE part of the problem.  He's relatively new, but even after giving him the benefit of the doubt for a while, he just doesn't have the skillset to manage projects let alone his people.  I've told my guy to just let them flounder and focus only on those things that he needs to support... but he can't seem to just sit there and deal with it. 

 

[Keerock]

I agree with  LB Larry above.  It's probably a good time to meet with the manager of the other group to voice the frustrations with the lack of organization.  It may help show your employee you are trying to get at the problem from the top to help things improve.  Obviously if nothing changes then the frustrations will remain but to some degree you and your employee have no control over the other guys.  It probably will get to a point (if the other manager doesn't help things) where your group needs to step back and let them fail up to a point.......not where it reflects bad on your group but sometimes in order to make improvements the negatives have to be seen by others. 

Yep.  See my reply to LBL above... that's exactly where we are (or at least trying to be).

I'm between a rock and a hard place... my guy is definitely in the wrong by being arrogant, but I can't fault him for being frustrated.  And now the relationship (between my guy and the other team) is strained  and I have to try to fix that.

 

[Gally]

That first paragraph is spot on!

As for the second... the manager is a HUGE part of the problem.  He's relatively new, but even after giving him the benefit of the doubt for a while, he just doesn't have the skillset to manage projects let alone his people.  I've told my guy to just let them flounder and focus only on those things that he needs to support... but he can't seem to just sit there and deal with it. 

Can you go above this incompetent manager?  That would be my suggestion if possible.  Essentially present that this lack of leadership/organization is hurting the company and damaging relationships of different groups because of these issues. 

As far as your guy, I am not sure how to handle that.  Obviously if he is being this affected by the incompetence his is a solid worker that takes his job seriously and wants to do the right thing.  I would try and stress your happiness with him for that.  Show that you are pleased with his intentions but that you need to figure out a way to get his intentions to work for him rather than against him.  It's difficult and that bridge may already be burned but for his sake he needs to find a way to not let it get to him or he will burn out.

 

[Keerock]

Just stumbled on this:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/high-performing-jerks-culture-crushers-matthew-Francis

I certainly don’t consider him a jerk, and he’s not in a sales position.  But interesting.

 

[Keerock]

Can you go above this incompetent manager?  That would be my suggestion if possible.  Essentially present that this lack of leadership/organization is hurting the company and damaging relationships of different groups because of these issues. 

As far as your guy, I am not sure how to handle that.  Obviously if he is being this affected by the incompetence his is a solid worker that takes his job seriously and wants to do the right thing.  I would try and stress your happiness with him for that.  Show that you are pleased with his intentions but that you need to figure out a way to get his intentions to work for him rather than against him.  It's difficult and that bridge may already be burned but for his sake he needs to find a way to not let it get to him or he will burn out.

I think I will go to the VP above this manager, but I feel like I want our house in order before hand so they don’t come back on us.

Agree on how to handle him, and I’ve already started down that path.  I may just be impatient on seeing progress.  I have a meeting with the two teams scheduled for Monday to try to get everyone on the same page.  I’ll prep him beforehand too.

 

[TakiToki]

DBAs and software developers are natural-born enemies. Either keep them separated entirely or integrate them in small cross-functional units.

 

[ffldrew]

With 15 DBA's and not sure how many developers - you don't have a PMO?  That has to be addressed especially if he is running the "meeting". Are these agile projects? You should be able to unearth some of these problems in agile scrums and eliminate some of the repetitive nature of the issues. Of course your DBA will just love a daily stand up with developers every day.

 

[Keerock]

With 15 DBA's and not sure how many developers - you don't have a PMO?  That has to be addressed especially if he is running the "meeting". Are these agile projects? You should be able to unearth some of these problems in agile scrums and eliminate some of the repetitive nature of the issues. Of course your DBA will just love a daily stand up with developers every day.

We do have a PMO, but we have a "different" org structure... Dev team is not part of IT... the PMO is.  They only manage IT projects.  Sadly, the devs to not have much in the way of project management.

As for agile... HA!  My DBA would LOVE it if they would follow an agile scrum model as that is what he is used to/has prior experience with.   That's part of the reason he's so frustrated. 

DBAs and software developers are natural-born enemies. Either keep them separated entirely or integrate them in small cross-functional units.

#TRUTH  But we have an excellent relationship with other development teams... this is the only real contentious one.

 

[shuke]

That first paragraph is spot on!

As for the second... the manager is a HUGE part of the problem.  He's relatively new, but even after giving him the benefit of the doubt for a while, he just doesn't have the skillset to manage projects let alone his people.  I've told my guy to just let them flounder and focus only on those things that he needs to support... but he can't seem to just sit there and deal with it. 

Take it as an opportunity to coach the other manager.   Not all managers have food mentors.  

 

[Capella]

I would just let him be him and tell the other team to tighten up. I’m not going to complain to some guy about being good at his job and letting others know about it. 

 

[Keerock]

Take it as an opportunity to coach the other manager.   Not all managers have food mentors.  

I really want to, but honestly I don't have the time.  The dev team just sent out an ALL DAY war room meeting for Monday.  I looked at the invite (for which I am a required attendee) and Outlook told me I have 17 conflicts.  

I guarantee you that if I or my DBA were managing this project, it's be done by now.  That's the frustration.

 

[Keerock]

I would just let him be him and tell the other team to tighten up. I’m not going to complain to some guy about being good at his job and letting others know about it. 

I totally agree EXCEPT for the way he approaches it.  He's condescending and arrogant about it.  I'm sure if he had handled it with more finesse he would have been/be much better received. 

 

[Capella]

I totally agree EXCEPT for the way he approaches it.  He's condescending and arrogant about it.  I'm sure if he had handled it with more finesse he would have been/be much better received. 

If he’s earned it he’s earned it. I don’t care at all about that kind of stuff, especially if it’s deserved on the other end. Now if the other group was competent and squared away, that’s a different story imo. 

 

[shuke]

I really want to, but honestly I don't have the time. 

Lunch sometime?  Beer after work?

 

[Keerock]

I really want to, but honestly I don't have the time. 

Lunch sometime?  Beer after work?

1) So you're assuming coaching him would only take a couple hours?

2) He works in Dallas, I work in Michigan.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

If he’s earned it he’s earned it. I don’t care at all about that kind of stuff, especially if it’s deserved on the other end. Now if the other group was competent and squared away, that’s a different story imo. 

Is it?  In a professional environment?  I don’t think so.