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Official MLB playoffs thread: 23 hour game exhausts all ball supplies (1 Viewer)

Who wins it all?

  • Total voters
    111
JuniorGong said:
Took less than one game but I already hate this ####### Astros team. 

####### Nunez killing the Sox this game, should have handled that ball that accounted for the first two Houston runs as well. Yeah the ball was smoked but he was right there to make the play or at least not wiff on the ball.
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He hits verlander well 

good move cora ?

 
Whoever said Red Sox fans were ugly was dead on. Seriously, not one good looking person in that whole crowd.

 
KingPrawn said:
Agreed. It's what got the brewers to the playoffs in September in the first place and nothing has changed against the Rockies or Dodgers. 
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I dont have a problem with using your bullpen "too early" when a high leverage situation occurs. What I didnt like here is that it was clearly scripted. Miley was pitching a gem. 16 straight batters retired. Gives up one two strike, two out hit and bam he is done. So counsell already had burnes up and ready to be in. He had just used his bullpen a ton the day before.

Miley was giving him an opportunity to not have to do the same thing again but he stuck to his pregame script. Burnes clearly didnt have it, but  counsell is reluctant to make that switch too quick since it blows his script up. Eventually he needs to use jj in the 7th to get out if the jam. I would bet he had scripted to use him in the 8th so he let him go back out there even though he was used the night before. 

Counsell is a good manager and i like him. Miley has been great though and Counsell has been consistently pulling him too early and holding off on starting him (see game 1). For whatever reason he just has no faith in him. 

Thats really been my only complaint about him. 

 
parasaurolophus said:
I dont have a problem with using your bullpen "too early" when a high leverage situation occurs. What I didnt like here is that it was clearly scripted. Miley was pitching a gem. 16 straight batters retired. Gives up one two strike, two out hit and bam he is done. So counsell already had burnes up and ready to be in. He had just used his bullpen a ton the day before.

Miley was giving him an opportunity to not have to do the same thing again but he stuck to his pregame script. Burnes clearly didnt have it, but  counsell is reluctant to make that switch too quick since it blows his script up. Eventually he needs to use jj in the 7th to get out if the jam. I would bet he had scripted to use him in the 8th so he let him go back out there even though he was used the night before. 

Counsell is a good manager and i like him. Miley has been great though and Counsell has been consistently pulling him too early and holding off on starting him (see game 1). For whatever reason he just has no faith in him. 

Thats really been my only complaint about him. 
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Agree 100%.

This is what is frustrating to watch just as a baseball fan. Analytics are great and all that, and I know his “formula” has gotten them to this point, but sometimes the eye test works better.

These decisions compound on each other as a series goes on, especially with a team as good as the dodgers. Hopefully it doesn’t backfire, because I really like watching the brewoyals and want them to win it all.

 
parasaurolophus said:
I dont have a problem with using your bullpen "too early" when a high leverage situation occurs. What I didnt like here is that it was clearly scripted. Miley was pitching a gem. 16 straight batters retired. Gives up one two strike, two out hit and bam he is done. So counsell already had burnes up and ready to be in. He had just used his bullpen a ton the day before.

Miley was giving him an opportunity to not have to do the same thing again but he stuck to his pregame script. Burnes clearly didnt have it, but  counsell is reluctant to make that switch too quick since it blows his script up. Eventually he needs to use jj in the 7th to get out if the jam. I would bet he had scripted to use him in the 8th so he let him go back out there even though he was used the night before. 

Counsell is a good manager and i like him. Miley has been great though and Counsell has been consistently pulling him too early and holding off on starting him (see game 1). For whatever reason he just has no faith in him. 

Thats really been my only complaint about him. 
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I dont know. That "script" got them  I think a 22-6 record in September. Got them from 5 games back of the Cubs at the beginning of September to winning the division. A sweep of Colorado in which they gave up only 2 runs, both in the same inning. Had Counsell deviated from his script and not used the bullpen and the Brewers lost, everyone would be complaining because he managed this game differently. Hindsight is 20/20

 
Mario Kart said:
Council lost that game. Miley had 75 pitches when he was taken out. Council got cute and it cost the game cause he had to shuffle pitchers after that. Miley has been terrific and only gave up two hits before getting pulled. Council got cute and it cost the game. 
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Pipes said:
Meh its worked all post season.  Burnes not throwing strikes and Jeffries pitching like crap is what lost the game.  Can’t win them all.
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strykerpks said:
You must not watch many Brewer games
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I agree for the most part with Mario here. I don't think he lost the game, but taking Miley out when he did was just the wrong move yesterday. It just was. Even if it had worked it was the wrong move. You worked your bullpen hard on Friday, Miley was cruising along, let him go. The Doyers had no answer for him, he was sitting at 74 pitches and had a 3 run lead. Yes I know he's done this all year and for the most part was successful. But this is only a 7 game series, you can't afford to have a move backfire, and it did.

CC out-thought himself plain and simple.

We move on.

 
Mr.Pack said:
I agree for the most part with Mario here. I don't think he lost the game, but taking Miley out when he did was just the wrong move yesterday. It just was. Even if it had worked it was the wrong move. You worked your bullpen hard on Friday, Miley was cruising along, let him go. The Doyers had no answer for him, he was sitting at 74 pitches and had a 3 run lead. Yes I know he's done this all year and for the most part was successful. But this is only a 7 game series, you can't afford to have a move backfire, and it did.

CC out-thought himself plain and simple.

We move on.
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Burnes was fully rested and capable of going multiple innings and yes Miley was rolling but not accustomed to throwing 80 plus pitches so who’s to say he was going to keep cruising.  The issue was Burnes not throwing strikes imo.

 
Pipes said:
Burnes was fully rested and capable of going multiple innings and yes Miley was rolling but not accustomed to throwing 80 plus pitches so who’s to say he was going to keep cruising.  The issue was Burnes not throwing strikes imo.
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It was a bit odd, but he was fully rested and was surely going to start the 7th anyway. He got Turner to fly out on 3 pitches and I think most of us were pretty happy with everything to start the 7th - a red hot Burnes on the mound, JJ and Knebel available and up 3-0.  It’s the recipe that got them here, working exactly to plan.  

 
So David Price up next.

Price didn't even get through two innings in his ALDS start against the Yankees, giving up two home runs, two walks and three runs. A pitcher who has never won a postseason start in 10 outings somehow had his worst start yet. He fell to 0-9 with a 6.03 ERA as a starter (he has a 5.28 ERA overall, including relief appearances).

Price was spot-on for most of the second half -- he went 6-1 with a 2.25 ERA -- although his last two starts of the regular season (when he gave up five home runs) and his start against the Yankees weren't nearly as good.
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Will he continue his legacy as Mr. ####tober or pitch the gem we all know he should be capable of?

 
KingPrawn said:
I dont know. That "script" got them  I think a 22-6 record in September. Got them from 5 games back of the Cubs at the beginning of September to winning the division. A sweep of Colorado in which they gave up only 2 runs, both in the same inning. Had Counsell deviated from his script and not used the bullpen and the Brewers lost, everyone would be complaining because he managed this game differently. Hindsight is 20/20
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I am quite pleased with Counsell overall. I am happy to have him as the manager. They closed the season out in amazing fashion. They had the best record in the national league. Yes, they swept colorado and only gave up 2 runs. I was unhappy with the way he handled yesterday. I was unhappy right away. I havent complained during other games and almost always give Counsell the benefit of the doubt. I just think he underestimates what he has in Miley this year, especially yesterday. I mean the guy even had two hits. He didnt give up a run in colorado either. 

I will admit that part of the reason I was so annoyed is because I had literally just said how much this is reminding me of Orel Hershiser's game 2 in 1988. Pitched a shutout and personally had as many hits as the A's did that night with 3. Then the very next batter gets a hit and he is pulled. Boooooo!!!!!

 
Mr.Pack said:
I agree. I just think he should have rolled with Miley a couple innings longer. Also agree Burnes blowing up was a big contributor to the loss.
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I agree with this just hate the fact a poster said Counsel lost the game.  Players win and lose games.  Managers decision contribute but when a guy follows his MO can’t lay the blame on him.

 
Pipes said:
I agree with this just hate the fact a poster said Counsel lost the game.  Players win and lose games.  Managers decision contribute but when a guy follows his MO can’t lay the blame on him.
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The big thing to me that seems to be ignored in this discussion is Miley may be their best pitcher and these next 7-12 games are biggest in franchise history. Miley has been on a low pitch count and they really need to keep him fresh enough for 3-4 more starts if they play all 12.

Tough call, but I think he probably did the right thing, all things considered. 

 
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cosjobs said:
The big thing to me that seems to be ignored in this discussion is Miley may be there best pitcher and these next 7-12 games are biggest in franchise history. Miley has been on a low pitch count and they really need to keep him fresh enough for 3-4 more starts if they play all 12.

Tough call, but I think he probably did the right thing, all things considered. 
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Many are also overlooking the fact he made a lefty/righty play against Turner with a man on in a 2-0 game, and Burnes got the out.

 
cosjobs said:
The big thing to me that seems to be ignored in this discussion is Miley may be there best pitcher and these next 7-12 games are biggest in franchise history. Miley has been on a low pitch count and they really need to keep him fresh enough for 3-4 more starts if they play all 12.

Tough call, but I think he probably did the right thing, all things considered. 
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Excellent point, and that's always a tough equation to balance, but:

  • You have to get to the WS first... playing to keep players fresh this early in the LCS is too early IMO.
  • If they had won this game and gone up 2-0, it might have shaved a game off of the end of the LCS, which = extra rest for Miley.
If Miley really has only been going 80 max pitches all year, it makes a little more sense.

 
NotSmart said:
Excellent point, and that's always a tough equation to balance, but:

  • You have to get to the WS first... playing to keep players fresh this early in the LCS is too early IMO.
  • If they had won this game and gone up 2-0, it might have shaved a game off of the end of the LCS, which = extra rest for Miley.
If Miley really has only been going 80 max pitches all year, it makes a little more sense.
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He only made sixteen starts this season and threw only 80 innings for 1291 total pitches.If my math is correct (and he only pitched as a starter), then that's a fraction over 80 pitches per game. Another 10-20 pitches could well have jeopardized future starts this post season.

 
Mr.Pack said:
I agree for the most part with Mario here. I don't think he lost the game, but taking Miley out when he did was just the wrong move yesterday. It just was. Even if it had worked it was the wrong move. You worked your bullpen hard on Friday, Miley was cruising along, let him go. The Doyers had no answer for him, he was sitting at 74 pitches and had a 3 run lead. Yes I know he's done this all year and for the most part was successful. But this is only a 7 game series, you can't afford to have a move backfire, and it did.

CC out-thought himself plain and simple.

We move on.
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as a dodger fan I was thinking really?  the guy is pitching a 2 hit shutout, one guy gets on first and he is yanked?  it was an absurd and terrible decision.  but thanks.

 
cosjobs said:
He only made sixteen starts this season and threw only 80 innings for 1291 total pitches.If my math is correct (and he only pitched as a starter), then that's a fraction over 80 pitches per game. Another 10-20 pitches could well have jeopardized future starts this post season.
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He threw over 100 at least twice. Threw over 90 a few times I think too. 

ETA: One of the times he threw over 100 pitches was when he went 7 innings in a 1-0 milwaukee win over the dodgers. 

 
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parasaurolophus said:
I am quite pleased with Counsell overall. I am happy to have him as the manager.
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I wonder how much is the GM vs the manager with the Crew?  I believe credit for Milwaukee's success will go to David Stearns more and more each season he's able to keep the Brewers farm system strong and the big league team in the mix.  I see a successful A's 'Moneyball' style manager with Counsell more than most seem to feel right now.

 
cosjobs said:
Still not really an iron man
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16 starts. Threw over 90 five times. (97,95,91,91,96). Over 100 twice.(101,105). 

I dont think it is fair to criticize him for not being able to go deep when he was only at 74 pitches and had only given up 2 hits and he got pulled. He got pulled against Colorado early too. He hasnt been pulled because he was tired. 

Last year he was nowhere near as effective, but he threw over 100 pitches 22 times. 

 
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trader jake said:
I wonder how much is the GM vs the manager with the Crew?  I believe credit for Milwaukee's success will go to David Stearns more and more each season he's able to keep the Brewers farm system strong and the big league team in the mix.  I see a successful A's 'Moneyball' style manager with Counsell more than most seem to feel right now.
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A while back, Counsel said, “It’s no secret that we’re going to use our pitching a little differently than the traditionalists would like.” My reaction was to wonder whether that’s his decision, as a lifelong baseball guy, or more driven by Stearns, the 33 year old analytics guy.  In any event, it’s hard to question when they win the division with the 4th best ERA in the league despite having a combined pitchers payroll that’s roughly the cost of one Arrieta, several million less than Kershaw or Grienke. A manager of the year / executive of the year sweep is not out of the question. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
A while back, Counsel said, “It’s no secret that we’re going to use our pitching a little differently than the traditionalists would like.” My reaction was to wonder whether that’s his decision, as a lifelong baseball guy, or more driven by Stearns, the 33 year old analytics guy.  In any event, it’s hard to question when they win the division with the 4th best ERA in the league despite having a combined pitchers payroll that’s roughly the cost of one Arrieta, several million less than Kershaw or Grienke. A manager of the year / executive of the year sweep is not out of the question. 
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I will always wonder (probably will forget by Christmas) what the price for deGrom was. It'd be nice to have him right now. I bet Counsel doesn't take deGrom out with two hits under six innings pitched. Ugh!

 
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