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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)

They cut Keon to make room for Martavis. This after Gruden said last week that he cut smoke stack because Keon outperformed him and that he'd have been thrown out of the plane if he had cut Keon. Gru is going to lose this locker room quick with stuff like this. He may aleady have after the Mack debacle. I feel like each day the last two weeks my Gruden whoopee cushion has been steadily deflating. I'm starting to wonder if Gru is on drugs with some of these moves.

 
Some Raider fans are going to have a very hard decade if they plan to criticize every single word, statement, thought, fart, or belly scratch that Gruden makes through the eyes of hindsight. 

He isn't losing the locker room, or ruining the Raiders, because he said 'x' in the media, and made decision 'y' days later. 
   

 
Courtesy of @menobrown in the Cooper thread:

 just read a tweet attributed Greg Cosell, who does have All-22 access, this it that tweet: .@gregcosell on @Midday180: Amari Cooper looked dynamically explosive. Carr was tentative, unwilling to turn it loose. They need to develop an effective intermediate passing game. They had none. It was all Cook. WRs non-factors. #Raiders

ETA-more on him being open but Carr just not delivering.

Gruden: “Cooper was open deep, he was open a couple times. For whatever reason, we didn’t go there.”

 
Sarlakticacid said:
Courtesy of @menobrown in the Cooper thread:

 just read a tweet attributed Greg Cosell, who does have All-22 access, this it that tweet: .@gregcosell on @Midday180: Amari Cooper looked dynamically explosive. Carr was tentative, unwilling to turn it loose. They need to develop an effective intermediate passing game. They had none. It was all Cook. WRs non-factors. #Raiders

ETA-more on him being open but Carr just not delivering.

Gruden: “Cooper was open deep, he was open a couple times. For whatever reason, we didn’t go there.”
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I've maintained in the past and will maintain again that I fear that Carr has lost the strength and accuracy to deliver the deep ball.

Maybe he never had it; maybe it's something that got f'd in his mechanics from his transverse fractures. He's already said it affected him last year, and it seems clear on that badly underthrown ball that ended up in a pick in the end zone that he still doesn't have it back.

That's the reason Carr didn't go there. He might just not be able to anymore.

I hope that's not the case.

 
I think Carr might be gun shy. He has been hurt in each of the past two seasons, and having witnessing what happened to his brother. Can't blame but if you are earning $25 million a year you need to step up. 

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I think Carr might be gun shy. He has been hurt in each of the past two seasons, and having witnessing what happened to his brother. Can't blame but if you are earning $25 million a year you need to step up. 
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I have been thinking the same thing.   Carr looks afraid.   I'm hoping instead that he didn't master Grudens O and needs game time to feel comfortable.   

 
32 Counter Pass said:
I think Carr might be gun shy. He has been hurt in each of the past two seasons, and having witnessing what happened to his brother. Can't blame but if you are earning $25 million a year you need to step up. 
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This, except you can blame him.  He can't just throw the ball away or right to the defense at even the slightest thought of pressure.  He has to be able to throw the ball down the field and for that it takes a little time for the play to develop and sometimes he's going to get hit.  He was checking down or aborting the play Monday at even the slightest hint of pressure.  The horrible interception was a perfect example.  It looked like there might be a rusher coming and he just bailed on the play and threw it up for grabs.

 
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ICON211 said:
This, except you can blame him.  He can't just throw the ball away or right to the defense at even the slightest thought of pressure.  He has to be able to throw the ball down the field and for that it takes a little time for the play to develop and sometimes he's going to get hit.  He was checking down or aborting the play Monday at even the slightest hint of pressure.  The horrible interception was a perfect example.  It looked like there might be a rusher coming and he just bailed on the play and threw it up for grabs.
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He did get better at dealing with pressure through the 1st 2 years until he broke his leg, that play he should have thrown it away, and has regressed ever since 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Looks like Raiders signed Jonathan Hankins and Clinton McDonald:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24656420/oakland-raiders-reach-deals-johnathan-hankins-clinton-mcdonald

Good in that we need help with pass rush.

I hope this means that Jelly and Hall's injuries aren't ones that will keep them out of games.

ETA: Does this mean we also have to release two guys? Wouldn't mind saying bye to Frostee Rucker, who is less than a Jag, and I guess Brian Price might be the other?
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We waived Calhoun. Not sure of any other move that would free up space but I think Price makes the most sense. 

 
Hopefully Carr turns it around.  His percentage completion was good.  Take away the three interceptions, which he needs to fix, his day would have obviously been better. Probably would not have changed the outcome since the defense couldn't stop the Rams in the second half.  Have to give him a break though.   Under his third offensive coordinator in three years.  Last year was a nightmare.  He needs to work that out of his system.  Makes me think things will improve and those nasty interceptions will decline.  Need to give Gruden a chance to work with him.

As far as the defense - Four years of Ken Norton Jr. way too many.  Guenther huge upgrade IMO. Talent on defense still lacking which, I think, was part of the philosophy in letting Mack go.  Need to upgrade LB's and DB's.  Tough to do with all that money locked up in Mack. Basically agreeing with Gruden here.  Even with Mack this defense would struggle.  Trade short term view certainly looks bad.  Hopefully long term outlook looks brighter with good additions through the draft and free agency. Defense takes 11 players.  One can't do it all.  Once again have to give the new defense coordinator some time, and get him some players

24-7 media focused on short term effect of trade and into Gruden bashing. Look at the resigning of Bryant.  Media all over the Raiders for cutting and resigning.  So far no indication of a suspension and they resigned him at, I believe, a million dollars less so why not recommit to a chance he corrects his personal matters and can fulfill his potential. If Belichick did it he'd be a considered a genius for taking the chance. Of course - he probably would not have taken him on in the first place but.... 

Lets face it - 2016 playoffs was a fluke.  Soft schedule and soft division.  A little luck thrown in.  Rebuilding was only half complete..

 
Thought the DBs looked fine, good actually if they could learn to turn their darn heads around even a little bit.

Y'know what would make them look like first team All-Pros?

A pass rush.

 
The defense held up pretty well. Just think how much better they would be with Mack. ?

if Carr diesn’t clean up his game exoect to see similar outcomes in the near future. 

 
Carr has to play much better or he won't make it to Vegas.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I think there is a real chance Gruden moves on from him after this year if he doesn't play well.  He can save $17.5M on the cap and would leave behind $7.5M in dead money I believe.  They have the picks if Gruden sees a guy he likes to be able to take him or be able to move up and get him.  Gruden has already proved he views this is a rebuild and is not afraid to get rid of anyone.  It's his show and he is going to be allowed to do as he sees fit.  There is a billboard outside where they are building the stadium in Vegas and Gruden is the guy on it not Carr or any of the other players.

 
ICON211 said:
Carr has to play much better or he won't make it to Vegas.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I think there is a real chance Gruden moves on from him after this year if he doesn't play well.  He can save $17.5M on the cap and would leave behind $7.5M in dead money I believe.  They have the picks if Gruden sees a guy he likes to be able to take him or be able to move up and get him.  Gruden has already proved he views this is a rebuild and is not afraid to get rid of anyone.  It's his show and he is going to be allowed to do as he sees fit.  There is a billboard outside where they are building the stadium in Vegas and Gruden is the guy on it not Carr or any of the other players.
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Yep. Nobody is safe under Gruden. Don't buy any Raider jerseys for awhile...

 
ICON211 said:
Carr has to play much better or he won't make it to Vegas.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I think there is a real chance Gruden moves on from him after this year if he doesn't play well.  He can save $17.5M on the cap and would leave behind $7.5M in dead money I believe.  They have the picks if Gruden sees a guy he likes to be able to take him or be able to move up and get him.  Gruden has already proved he views this is a rebuild and is not afraid to get rid of anyone.  It's his show and he is going to be allowed to do as he sees fit.  There is a billboard outside where they are building the stadium in Vegas and Gruden is the guy on it not Carr or any of the other players.
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I was wondering about the money involved with Carr but am way too lazy to dig into any of that.  Thanks for posting that info.  I think Carr is around next season but I expect a QB to be drafted in the early rounds in 2019 if Carr's struggles continue.  Gruden will develop the rookie to take over in 2020. 

To be fair, it has only been one game with Carr in the new O (again) so a lot can change.  It is possible.  He had success but something has changed. 

 
Sarlakticacid said:
He did get better at dealing with pressure through the 1st 2 years until he broke his leg, that play he should have thrown it away, and has regressed ever since 
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THIS is the issue in a nutshell IMO. He has not been close to the same since. 

 
I hope Derek turns it around. You can tell he really wants to do well. Everything I've ever read about him is good off the field and he's got a strong work ethic. But sometimes it comes down to what's going on in his head. It's almost like he has PTSD from the broken leg. Everyone is right, hes never been the same since. Neither has the whole organization for that matter. When he went down, it exposed how weak the team really was. That was an 8-8 team at best, the ball bounced their way a lot in 2016.

Anyway, on to Denver. Last week the interior Oline was tested. This week is HUGE as the tackles get tested big time. We're gonna learn a lot about Kolton Miller this Sunday for sure.

 
ICON211 said:
Carr has to play much better or he won't make it to Vegas.  I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I think there is a real chance Gruden moves on from him after this year if he doesn't play well.  
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It’s right. That would be two years of mostly mediocrity or worse. That’s enough time to tell if he’s the real deal or fool’s gold. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
The last QB to throw 3 picks in a season opener was Kenny Stabler in 1976.

Who went on to win the Super Bowl later that year.

Things can turn around.
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Jumping into the way back machine. 1976. As I recall the Raiders trailed the defending champion Steelers 28-14 in the fourth quarter. Wham, bam, thank you ma’am, Stabler led ‘em back to a tie. Willie Hall then intercepted Bradshaw deep in Steeler territory (think off an Otis Sistrunk deflection) and Fred Steinfort kicked a short field goal to win it. All that from the memory of someone who can’t remember what he had for breakfast. This was back when I took this stuff as serious as most of you guys do now.

Stabler was one of the few QBs in history who could rebound from three interceptions in a game and even beat the defending champs. Don’t know if Carr has done it. That’s for the youngsters in the thread to tackle.

I’ve been following the Raiders since 1968. In all that time there’s been only two QBs I never worried about where the ball was going when they threw it: Stabler and Rich Gannon. All the rest—Lamonica, Wilson, Plunkett (to a lesser extent), Schroeder and now Carr—I just kept (keep) my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

When Carr only threw 6 picks in 2016, I said, "Whoa!" Those were the days. Now he's halfway to that total in one game.

Stompin’ Tom and me…your Raider historians.

 
Ed Wood said:
Jumping into the way back machine. 1976. As I recall the Raiders trailed the defending champion Steelers 28-14 in the fourth quarter. Wham, bam, thank you ma’am, Stabler led ‘em back to a tie. Willie Hall then intercepted Bradshaw deep in Steeler territory (think off an Otis Sistrunk deflection) and Fred Steinfort kicked a short field goal to win it. All that from the memory of someone who can’t remember what he had for breakfast. This was back when I took this stuff as serious as most of you guys do now.

Stabler was one of the few QBs in history who could rebound from three interceptions in a game and even beat the defending champs. Don’t know if Carr has done it. That’s for the youngsters in the thread to tackle.

I’ve been following the Raiders since 1968. In all that time there’s been only two QBs I never worried about where the ball was going when they threw it: Stabler and Rich Gannon. All the rest—Lamonica, Wilson, Plunkett (to a lesser extent), Schroeder and now Carr—I just kept (keep) my fingers crossed and hope for the best.

When Carr only threw 6 picks in 2016, I said, "Whoa!" Those were the days. Now he's halfway to that total in one game.

Stompin’ Tom and me…your Raider historians.
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GREAT post.

My entree to the Raiders was awareness was their SB in 1980 against the Eagles. My older brother was a fan, and though I wasn't really aware of the intricacies of football, I was immediate taken in by the team's the mystique. What 8 year old wouldn't love a group of bad-a$$ black-clad swaggering, feared pirates that beat the cr@p out of opponents on the field?

Then in '83 when the beat the Redskins, was more attuned to the game itself, immediately declaring Howie Long my favorite player/Raider ever, with deep appreciation for what I saw Plunkett, Marcus Allen, Branch, Christensen, Alzado, Hendricks. Hayes, and Guy do for that team that year, and for its legacy.

 
I just made a (very) modest investment on Denver -6.5

I can’t beloeve the Broncos are favored by less than a TD. 

Raiders defense is a mess, they just lost two run-stoppers & the Broncos look as good on offense as the Raiders look bad.

Maybe Vegas has more faith in Chucky than I do, but -6.5 feels like a gift. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I just made a (very) modest investment on Denver -6.5

I can’t beloeve the Broncos are favored by less than a TD. 

Raiders defense is a mess, they just lost two run-stoppers & the Broncos look as good on offense as the Raiders look bad.

Maybe Vegas has more faith in Chucky than I do, but -6.5 feels like a gift. 
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Never trust a gift from Vegas.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I just made a (very) modest investment on Denver -6.5

I can’t beloeve the Broncos are favored by less than a TD. 

Raiders defense is a mess, they just lost two run-stoppers & the Broncos look as good on offense as the Raiders look bad.

Maybe Vegas has more faith in Chucky than I do, but -6.5 feels like a gift. 
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I agree.  We all knew the D was going from average to bad once we lost our best player.   We had to hope the O was going to score points.   I don't see that happening in the near future.   Until Carr gets some confidence, this team stands little chance.   Denver should win by ten.   

 
Not predicting a win against a seemingly suddenly strong Denver team offense, on the road.

What WILL be super fascinating is how we gameplan.

Again, we're up against an elite (arguably Top 2 or 3) secondary. We schemed well in the first half with Cook, using the run to set up the pass, and in the second half (less successfully) leveraged Richard as well as Cook.

Broncos have seen that tape, and imagine in addition to ensuring Chris Harris and Bradley Roby lock down on Cooper and Nelson, will also scheme to keep Cook under control as the Broncos were torched by Dissley, of all TEs. So will be interesting to see how Gruden gameplans for this -- is Martavis Bryant playing? I can definitely see him and Cooper working on deep routes as Russell Wilson had 3 TDs and nearly 300 yards, mostly from long bombs to Dissley and Lockett. Will be dependent on Carr's ability to deliver the long ball with accuracy, which seems very specious.

We're definitely up against a poor run outlook against the league's best run defenders. Either MArshawn/Martin have to shine in the straight-line game, or we need to mix up much better PA and misdirections to keep Denver on their toes (something I didn't think we did well last week aside from that great Lynch delay play). OUr Oline will have to play with discipline and nastiness and step the f up to blow holes for our runners for a full 60 mins.

We need our Dline to play all 60 mins as well -- they were solid in the first half against Gurley, but were clearly getting pushed around in the second half as they got gassed from being on the field, and not having the same elite talent as Gurley. And there was little pass rush, which we need to generate. And we need to do it all this week at altitude, which doesn't bode well for the gas factor.

We need Conley to start to emerge to help out Melvin and Hall and allow Nelson (who runs hot and cold) to focus and not get behind plays.We did fairly OK limiting GOff to under 200 yards and just a TD, but we gave up critical 3rd downs and weren't able to tighten up to prevent chains moving.

Will be a great game to watch as if we can adjust and play to our strengths an minimize mistakes, we'll have a shot.

If we can't...this season might be over before it had a chance to begin. You can't come back from an 0-2 start in this division and expect to contend. 

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Not predicting a win against a seemingly suddenly strong Denver team offense, on the road.

What WILL be super fascinating is how we gameplan.

Again, we're up against an elite (arguably Top 2 or 3) secondary. We schemed well in the first half with Cook, using the run to set up the pass, and in the second half (less successfully) leveraged Richard as well as Cook.

Broncos have seen that tape, and imagine in addition to ensuring Chris Harris and Bradley Roby lock down on Cooper and Nelson, will also scheme to keep Cook under control as the Broncos were torched by Dissley, of all TEs. So will be interesting to see how Gruden gameplans for this -- is Martavis Bryant playing? I can definitely see him and Cooper working on deep routes as Russell Wilson had 3 TDs and nearly 300 yards, mostly from long bombs to Dissley and Lockett. Will be dependent on Carr's ability to deliver the long ball with accuracy, which seems very specious.

We're definitely up against a poor run outlook against the league's best run defenders. Either MArshawn/Martin have to shine in the straight-line game, or we need to mix up much better PA and misdirections to keep Denver on their toes (something I didn't think we did well last week aside from that great Lynch delay play). OUr Oline will have to play with discipline and nastiness and step the f up to blow holes for our runners for a full 60 mins.

We need our Dline to play all 60 mins as well -- they were solid in the first half against Gurley, but were clearly getting pushed around in the second half as they got gassed from being on the field, and not having the same elite talent as Gurley. And there was little pass rush, which we need to generate. And we need to do it all this week at altitude, which doesn't bode well for the gas factor.

We need Conley to start to emerge to help out Melvin and Hall and allow Nelson (who runs hot and cold) to focus and not get behind plays.We did fairly OK limiting GOff to under 200 yards and just a TD, but we gave up critical 3rd downs and weren't able to tighten up to prevent chains moving.

Will be a great game to watch as if we can adjust and play to our strengths an minimize mistakes, we'll have a shot.

If we can't...this season might be over before it had a chance to begin. You can't come back from an 0-2 start in this division and expect to contend. 
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Great analysis. But as far as contending for anything, I'm not holding my breath. I came to the realization that Gruden is in year one of a ten year contract. He has zero pressure on him to win this year or the next couple years. This is a complete rebuild... Again.

 
Bruno2 said:
Great analysis. But as far as contending for anything, I'm not holding my breath. I came to the realization that Gruden is in year one of a ten year contract. He has zero pressure on him to win this year or the next couple years. This is a complete rebuild... Again.
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Not disagreeing at all. I just think that one game does not a season make. 

Deck is very stacked against us being a contender, no doubt. And I don't think anyone thought we were done rebuilding (maybe after WK1 it's clearer that it's just one step forward, two steps back in that progression).

But it's also not too late to show some signs of life. Was such a positive preseason, and sometimes teams -- especially those with new field personnel and staff -- take some time to gel.

This week is a defining one for our season, IMHO.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
Not disagreeing at all. I just think that one game does not a season make. 

Deck is very stacked against us being a contender, no doubt. And I don't think anyone thought we were done rebuilding (maybe after WK1 it's clearer that it's just one step forward, two steps back in that progression).

But it's also not too late to show some signs of life. Was such a positive preseason, and sometimes teams -- especially those with new field personnel and staff -- take some time to gel.

This week is a defining one for our season, IMHO.
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I admit, that was a pessimistic outlook. With all the flack the defense has been getting, I thought they played pretty well for a bunch of old-timers with a few rookies sprinkled in there. They held a high powered offense to only 26 pts, what more can you ask for against the Rams? They did struggle getting off the field on 3rd down and had no pass rush most of the game. But I put this loss on Carr and the offense. They should be able to score more than 13 pts, no matter who they're playing IMO.

 
Stompin' Tom Connors said:
What 8 year old wouldn't love a group of bad-a$$ black-clad swaggering, feared pirates that beat the cr@p out of opponents on the field?

...with deep appreciation for what I saw Plunkett, Marcus Allen, Branch, Christensen, Alzado, Hendricks. Hayes, and Guy do for that team that year, and for its legacy.
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Yep, those were the days this team had a mystique combined with what IMO is the greatest logo in all of sports.

On offense: "We don't take what the defense gives us, we take what we want."

On defense: "The quarterback must go down and he must go down hard."

Nowadays (and this in a nutshell is what Gruden said after Week 1) it's, "Just compete, baby."

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I just made a (very) modest investment on Denver -6.5

I can’t beloeve the Broncos are favored by less than a TD. 

Raiders defense is a mess, they just lost two run-stoppers & the Broncos look as good on offense as the Raiders look bad.

Maybe Vegas has more faith in Chucky than I do, but -6.5 feels like a gift. 
Click to expand...
Betting on or against the Raiders is a risky proposition just because of Carr. Is he going to bring his A game similar to the first half in Week 1? Or his F game--see second half of Week 2?

I see the Raiders rebounding and doing just enough to lose, perhaps the D giving up the winning score in the final minutes. Good grief, some were huffing and puffing last week and now they're in Denver???

This was the scene where things really started unraveling last year. They got punched in the mouth the week before by the Skins and Carr went down in this game tho the Raiders could have won if Cook hadn't alligator-armed a nice throw late from Manuel.

Broncos 20-16.

 
Ed Wood said:
Betting on or against the Raiders is a risky proposition just because of Carr. Is he going to bring his A game similar to the first half in Week 1? Or his F game--see second half of Week 2?

I see the Raiders rebounding and doing just enough to lose, perhaps the D giving up the winning score in the final minutes. Good grief, some were huffing and puffing last week and now they're in Denver???

This was the scene where things really started unraveling last year. They got punched in the mouth the week before by the Skins and Carr went down in this game tho the Raiders could have won if Cook hadn't alligator-armed a nice throw late from Manuel.

Broncos 20-16.
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Time will tell. My bet is laid - not a lot I can do about it now. ;)  

 
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