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== OFFICIAL OAKLAND RAIDERS 2018 thread == (3 Viewers)

What did we just avoid and got value for it? Please see Bell and the Steelers. It is not even just about missed games but man- have you heard the statements and tweets coming from teammates? The Steelers are sitting tight. So is Bell. So now what? It has now passed a point where there is negatives no matter what happens. If you hear and read these comments, that is not a team chemistry that instantly heals when you come back in to the fold. 

Would Mack have been Thomas where he folds early enough to not cause what is happening in Pittsburgh? I don't know. But there was a real chance Mack would go the route of Bell and then what? That does not heal so we have Mack for one more year and then he leaves in FA and we get a compensatory pick which would not be of nearly the same value we got in the trade. 

 
Chadstroma said:
Yes, I am sick of it. Really sick of it. A lot of good guys in here need to freaking get over it. 

Seriously. 
Click to expand...
This this this.  

I follow football/Raiders because I enjoy it.  If being a fan is going to make me sour all the time, I am going to skip it.  Why bother?  It's why I am generally a positive fan, probably tending towards a homer label.  It's just more fun for me.  I'll be angry at losses, angry at moves I don't like, but then you move on.  

I think it was the wrong move, but I'm not going to keep bringing it up.  Gotta let it go, and focus on the team.  I wasn't a Khalil Mack fan, I am a Raiders fan.  

 
massraider said:
This this this.  

I follow football/Raiders because I enjoy it.  If being a fan is going to make me sour all the time, I am going to skip it.  Why bother?  It's why I am generally a positive fan, probably tending towards a homer label.  It's just more fun for me.  I'll be angry at losses, angry at moves I don't like, but then you move on.  

I think it was the wrong move, but I'm not going to keep bringing it up.  Gotta let it go, and focus on the team.  I wasn't a Khalil Mack fan, I am a Raiders fan.  
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 Very well said

 
You have got to be kidding me.

Strip sack fumble recovery. Pick six.

In the first half.

Yeah, it's not over and tallying all the ramifications and what nots and so forths needs to be done and all that. 

But...what in the ###!?!?

 
Chaka said:
You have got to be kidding me.

Strip sack fumble recovery. Pick six.

In the first half.

Yeah, it's not over and tallying all the ramifications and what nots and so forths needs to be done and all that. 

But...what in the ###!?!?
Click to expand...
I hope they're happy... tough game to watch. 

 
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It super sucks because I live in Chicago and my wife is a Bears fan. Yes, I told her earlier tonight "Shut up. I hate you." and it wasn't said in jest. 

 
Mack is that one hot GF we all had that we let get away because we didnt appreciate her enough.....those ones bother you till the day you die

 
Man, as hard as it was to watch Mack DOMINATE the 1st half there are two things besides the 0-1 start that makes me excited. 

1) Nagy is a new HC and I think him over playing Mack today shows he might have some growing pains in making solid decisions. He knew Mack was not in football shape and talked about 'watching him play to play' but because Mack was kicking so much rear early- he kept him in there and Mack ran out of gas and just was not effective anymore. I think Nagy schemed well but the deficiencies are significant enough that decent NFL DC's will be able to adjust if not scheme ahead of the game based on tape. 

2) There was plenty of information that came out that the Raiders were talking to many teams that reached out and narrowed it down to a few teams. They selected the Bears largely, I believe, based on Trubisky and their view that he will not be a good QB. I honestly did not watch a lot of Bear games last year because I get sick of watching them but man- this game has me really believing that they were right. I don't know how many throws he missed and missed not by a little but just were badly missed and there was no reason to have not hit them. It looks like he has real accuracy issues and there are a lot of things you can coach with QB's but accuracy really isn't one. 

Here is to hoping for very high 1st rounders for the next two years.  

 
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I know it's just one game, but the Bears vs Packers game is a great example as to why great QBs are worth $100+ mil and great defensive players aren't. A QB just has more influence in the outcome of games. Mack had one of the best halves a DE could possibly have and they still lost. Rodgers willed the Pack to a win on a bum knee. Not saying Mack isn't worth the money, but I see where Gruden and the Raiders were coming from. 

 
I think the Bears might be headed in the right direction.  They have some new pieces that need to prove their worth, like the rookies and Robinson/Burton.  

And their schedule does us no favors.  Next games:  SEA, ARI, TB, BYE, MIA, NE, NYJ, BUF.  They might be 6-2!

 
The Chris Collingsworth narrative was tiring during the first half.  Talking over and over about how the Raiders shouldn't have let Mack go.  Fast foward to the second, when the game and talking script changes to the value of Rodgers and a top QB in the NFCN.  A graphic flashes showing the contracts, and records of Rodgers, Cousins, Stafford and Trubisky.  Collingsworth then takes the brief moment to comment on that rookie deal of Trubisky is why the Bears could afford Mack and the Raiders couldn't with the Derek Carr contract.   Pick a side Chris. Pick a side.

 
So, Rams game. We're pretty worried, right?

We need to stop the run and pressure the QB to have any chance? (irony not intentional)

 
For those of us that are still not over Mack Mistake, last night was brutal.  I don't know how a Raiders fan can get over losing their best player. 

I was expecting the Bears to line Mack up at TE and have him return punts to pour more salt into the wound.  After the strip sack, I put my head down.  After the pick six, I laid in the fetal position and cried myself to sleep.  It is not easy being a Raider fan. 

Mack is the best D player in the league.  We all knew that already though. 

But, thank all that is holy that GB pulled off a fantastic comeback.  The Bears lost and we need lots of those.  They have a good team but Trubisky does look shaky.    

 
DocHolliday said:
The Raiders are going to get dominated tonight.  The Rams are really good.  The Raiders are going to be finding their way this season. 
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I didn't like to like that comment, but it's spot on. Rams talent-wise are poised to make their SB run, we're very much in reeling/rebounding/rebuilding mode.

Will be a good lesson for us to go up against a team that is among the cream of the crop and see how we can perform. Not expecting anything but a loss, but it's how we lose -- will we be competitive, play hard through all 4 quarters, leverage our strengths, will our scheme and playcalling (and in-game adjustments) be better than they were in years past -- that I will be most closely watching.

 
DocHolliday said:
The Raiders are going to get dominated tonight.  The Rams are really good.  The Raiders are going to be finding their way this season. 
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I can definitely see where and why you are coming from, but I'm not going to concede this game or this season until we see the defense in a real game. Even without the Mack they looked beast in preseason with the additions they made on all three levels, plus the top. 

Also the Rams are good, but not yet great. They were mediocre against the run last year and Jared Goof was protected by an old but effective OL, excellent game planning/coaching, the best RB in the league, and a #### ton of breaks that went their way all season. Those things tend to swing season to season as they did for the Raiders the last two years. Vegas knows this team better than any of us and they're pegging them at 9.5 wins. Seems about right. Let's hope it's 8.5 after tonight. :)

 
LawFitz said:
Vegas knows this team better than any of us and they're pegging them at 9.5 wins. 
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Can we stop appealing to Vegas as the authority on all football topics? They are just making educated guesses that are then heavily influenced by the betting public. Last I checked the Raiders win total was hovering around 7-7.5. I will still take the under. Lots of kool-aid drinking still going on in this thread. 

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Can we stop appealing to Vegas as the authority on all football topics? They are just making educated guesses that are then heavily influenced by the betting public. Last I checked the Raiders win total was hovering around 7-7.5. I will still take the under. Lots of kool-aid drinking still going on in this thread. 
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I understand why you've lost faith. I hated the Mack trade and haven't changed that stance in the slightest, especially after watching him single-handedly wreck the first half last night. Between that horrific move and smoke stack Bryant, it's easy and fair to question Gruden's sanity. I've rationalized it by seeing the new Gru as a gun slinger, in the mold of young Al. Sometimes the fast and loose trigger is an asset (Hall, Key, perhaps Miller), other times it's obviously a liability. Rolling with the punches for now until we see how this team plays when it counts. If they come out flat and get embarrassed tonight, that's a huge problem. But if they fight and hit the Rams back when they inevitably get punched, then even if they lose, there's hope. We need to see if this team still has Chucky's back after trading Mack. That is the biggest question I have for tonight and beyond.

 
Let's reserve both the Lombardi polish and the pitchforks until a few weeks in to see how this team settles in and shows us what we got, both in terms of talent/execution on the field and the ability of this coaching staff to scheme/gameplan/adjust.

 
LawFitz said:
But if they fight and hit the Rams back when they inevitably get punched, then even if they lose, there's hope. We need to see if this team still has Chucky's back after trading Mack. That is the biggest question I have for tonight and beyond.
Click to expand...
I get how the team could come out flat.  The wind could be out of their sails after losing Mack.  This is a building season.  Again. 

 
I have lead the charge against pessimism in this thread. I am not exactly expecting us to win the Super Bowl this year either. Here are my thoughts in bullet point fashion. 

Plus side:

  • New HC. Like Gruden or not- it is going to be hard for the most pessimistic among us to argue he is NOT an upgrade over Del Rio. 
  • New OC and DC. Same things as above. You do not have to be huge fans of them to agree that they are upgrades over last year. 
  • Healthy Carr. A lot of people seem to forget that Carr was suppose to miss 2-6 games- he came back in one and later admitted it bothered him the whole year. 
  • More complete D. Yes, even with losing Mack, I believe we have a more complete defense. I expect them to be overall better than they were last year. With Mack, they may have had the makings of a really good defense. But without him, improving upon last year is something I still expect.
  • Draft class. It seems everyone lost all the excitement about what looks to be several hits on the draft class. Key, Hall, and Hurst as highlights showed a lot to be excited about. Miller looks like he will be solid at LT if not spectacular. 
Minus side: 

  • We lost Mack. Heartbreaking. He is a defensive player of the year and if he plays like he did this first game all year long will likely get it again. He can single handedly take over a game which is very special as a defensive player. But he is not on our team anymore. It sucks. It is reality. It hurts. 
Ok, there you go. 

It will be interesting to see how the Rams who were good last year and went on a Dan Snyder in his prime winning the off-season rampage will end up looking like on the field. I am skeptical. How many times have we seen this type of thing? Remember the Eagles team that Nnamdi went to that one year? What was their nickname before games played? The All-Stars? They sucked. 

 
Chadstroma said:
I have lead the charge against pessimism in this thread. I am not exactly expecting us to win the Super Bowl this year either. Here are my thoughts in bullet point fashion. 

Plus side:

  • New HC. Like Gruden or not- it is going to be hard for the most pessimistic among us to argue he is NOT an upgrade over Del Rio. 
  • New OC and DC. Same things as above. You do not have to be huge fans of them to agree that they are upgrades over last year. 
  • Healthy Carr. A lot of people seem to forget that Carr was suppose to miss 2-6 games- he came back in one and later admitted it bothered him the whole year. 
  • More complete D. Yes, even with losing Mack, I believe we have a more complete defense. I expect them to be overall better than they were last year. With Mack, they may have had the makings of a really good defense. But without him, improving upon last year is something I still expect.
  • Draft class. It seems everyone lost all the excitement about what looks to be several hits on the draft class. Key, Hall, and Hurst as highlights showed a lot to be excited about. Miller looks like he will be solid at LT if not spectacular. 
Minus side: 

  • We lost Mack. Heartbreaking. He is a defensive player of the year and if he plays like he did this first game all year long will likely get it again. He can single handedly take over a game which is very special as a defensive player. But he is not on our team anymore. It sucks. It is reality. It hurts. 
Ok, there you go. 

It will be interesting to see how the Rams who were good last year and went on a Dan Snyder in his prime winning the off-season rampage will end up looking like on the field. I am skeptical. How many times have we seen this type of thing? Remember the Eagles team that Nnamdi went to that one year? What was their nickname before games played? The All-Stars?he They sucked. 
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They dubbed themselves the "Dream Team".

 
I actually see the Rams coming out flat. McVey didn't play any offensive starters all preseason. Fingers crossed, that plan backfires on him.

 
krsone21 said:
NFL on ESPN
‏@ESPNNFL
"Obviously, Khalil Mack didn't want to be here."

– Jon Gruden
Click to expand...
Gruden has a point, but he should take his own advice and focus on the guys he has now and what it will take to get them to win week in, week out.

Would have been pretty easy to answer with the BB-style "I'm focused on the players on the team now, and on beating the Rams this week" and repeat until the reporter moves on to another q. 

This just sounds like sour grapes and can feed into the thread of thinking that Gruden was non-communicative during process, had a cold attitude because Mack held out.

Let's move on and not rehash, Chuckie. Time will tell whether this was the right long term decision.

 
Something to watch for tonight -

Linebacker questions

With Mark Barron doubtful, Matt Longacre coming off a biceps injury and no stud pass rusher, the Rams have a lot of questions to answer at linebacker. There’s no position on the roster with more uncertainty than linebacker for the Rams, which could be a problem.

The Raiders have the offensive line and power running back in Lynch to simply pound the ball 30 times against the Rams, and with holes at both inside and outside linebacker, that could be the approach Gruden takes. We watched Los Angeles get gashed on the ground repeatedly last season, and although Ndamukong Suh’s presence will help, the Raiders’ offensive line is a powerful unit.

Keeping the ball on the ground and attacking Los Angeles’ linebackers might be the Raiders’ best approach and the Rams’ biggest weakness.
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https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/09/09/nfl-rams-raiders-concern-week-1-jon-gruden/

 
After last night, we got the answer to the first part of the equation = Is Mack worth the money he was holding out for? A resounding yes. I don't think anybody on the board would disagree with that even before last night. The Raiders wouldn't/couldn't pony up and got a taste of what it cost them.

The answer to the second part of the equation comes tonite = will the Raiders be significantly better on D this year? A little better won't cut it. Better won't cut it. They need to be significantly better because that's how bad they were last year--at least until they canned Norton.

I think many are painting a little too rosy a picture of the new guys. They've done nothing and what they did do in the preseason often wasn't done against the other teams' best. Great test tonite...maybe the best test they'll face all year. But in a way a good thing they get the Rams when they do--Week 1 before they work out any kinks they may have.

Broncos, Chargers and Chiefs look like they may have high-octane offenses if Week 1 is any indication. The Raiders D better be ready.

 
krsone21 said:
NFL on ESPN
‏@ESPNNFL
"Obviously, Khalil Mack didn't want to be here."

– Jon Gruden
Click to expand...
What a crock. "Obviously" he didn't want to be here? It was "obvious" he wasn't gonna show up for the season? It's obvious Gruden blew this one and he's trying to cover his tracks now.

"I asked [Khalil Mack], if Jon Gruden had called you and said, 'Hey, you're our guy, no way in the world we're letting you get out of here, you're the best player we have,' would it have made a difference? And he said, 'Yeah, it would have,' " Collinsworth said near the end of the third quarter of the Bears-Packers broadcast.

Now, I don't know how much of that second part I believe. Maybe Mack had no interest in playing for the Raiders. Maybe he felt disrespected from the lack of communication. But we'll never know because Gruden wouldn't pick up the phone.

Gruden HAS to make that phone call. He has to make several phone calls before he deals a player of this caliber.

Ok, like many others who have moved on, I'm done pontificating on the subject. They made a mistake. They made mistakes before. They'll make more mistakes. That's life in the NFL.

 
Ed Wood said:
Anybody got any predictions? I'm going to say 27-13 Rams and I'm usually pretty bad at this. :P
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I'm terrible at predictions too. But I see this game going two ways:

The Rams come out on fire and the game gets outta hand very quickly and it ends up being one of those 47-21 games with Carr racking up a bunch of yards playing from behind.

Or..... both teams come out flat on offense and defenses have the upper hand until the 4th quarter when one team (probably the Rams) breaks through. 21-17. 

 
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