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***Official""" Pittsburgh Pirates 2017 thread: Bouncing back? (1 Viewer)

monessen said:
Sellers, I suspect, particularly if Watson goes.  Bucs may get a Rajai Davis or a similar player to handle the "4th outfielder" job since the A's are having a sale.
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Well, Watson is gone.  

We got Benoit, which pretty much means a World Series sweep, and subsequent championship parade in downtown Pittsburgh.

 
There's no denying the return of Taillon to the rotation after cancer surgery has boosted the Bucs in several respects.  On June 9th, the date of Glasnow's final start, they were 9 games under .500 with a rotation ERA of 4.73.  Since Taillon's reinstatement as a starter, the rotation ERA is 4.00, and they've gone 25-19.

 
Here's something for which I've no explanation.  In Hurdle's 7 Julys as manager, the Bucs have a .581 winning percentage. Contrast that to his 6 Augusts which harbor a .479 winning percentage.

 
monessen said:
Here's something for which I've no explanation.  In Hurdle's 7 Julys as manager, the Bucs have a .581 winning percentage. Contrast that to his 6 Augusts which harbor a .479 winning percentage.
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For that matter, their post-July 31st winning percentage in Hurdle's regular season tenure is .472.

 
monessen said:
There's no denying the return of Taillon to the rotation after cancer surgery has boosted the Bucs in several respects.  On June 9th, the date of Glasnow's final start, they were 9 games under .500 with a rotation ERA of 4.73.  Since Taillon's reinstatement as a starter, the rotation ERA is 4.00, and they've gone 25-19.
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The broader picture is that, after two-thirds of the season, the starters' ERA is about 4.50.  Looking at individual pitchers, as some have tailed off, others have picked up the slack.  As has been noted, NL teams may have figured out Nova.  In his first 11 starts, his ERA was 2.92 and batters hit .259 against him.  In his last 11 starts, the ERA is 4.52 and the BA is .284.

But both Kuhl and Williams have improved.  Kuhl's initial 11 starts featured a 6.02 ERA and .293 BA against.  In his more recent 11, the ERA is 3.30, with a .251 batting average.  Williams was also shaky at first.  His first 8 starts include a 5.09 ERA, but the past 8 harbor a 3.69 ERA.

Cole is, for all the scrutiny on him, very steady by contrast.  The BA against him in starts 1-11 was .256.  It's been .259 in the latter 11.  The number of walks allowed, however, rose from 14 in that first eleven to 19 in the second eleven in nearly the exact number of innings pitched in both sets.

 
monessen said:
The broader picture is that, after two-thirds of the season, the starters' ERA is about 4.50.  Looking at individual pitchers, as some have tailed off, others have picked up the slack.  As has been noted, NL teams may have figured out Nova.  In his first 11 starts, his ERA was 2.92 and batters hit .259 against him.  In his last 11 starts, the ERA is 4.52 and the BA is .284.

But both Kuhl and Williams have improved.  Kuhl's initial 11 starts featured a 6.02 ERA and .293 BA against.  In his more recent 11, the ERA is 3.30, with a .251 batting average.  Williams was also shaky at first.  His first 8 starts include a 5.09 ERA, but the past 8 harbor a 3.69 ERA.

Cole is, for all the scrutiny on him, very steady by contrast.  The BA against him in starts 1-11 was .256.  It's been .259 in the latter 11.  The number of walks allowed, however, rose from 14 in that first eleven to 19 in the second eleven in nearly the exact number of innings pitched in both sets.
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Searage must be earning his paycheck.

In the past 50 games, the starting rotation ERA for the Bucs is 4.12.  

After the initial 61 games, it was 4.73.  So they've lowered it considerably overall, to 4.45.

They've gone 28-22 in the recent 50 game span. Not a coincidence.

 
When the team was 37-43, they and their opponents combined for 9 runs a game.  Since the recent 18-14 stretch, they've combined for 8 runs. Evidently, for the Bucs, the lower scoring the game, the better their success.

 
monessen said:
When the team was 37-43, they and their opponents combined for 9 runs a game.  Since the recent 18-14 stretch, they've combined for 8 runs. Evidently, for the Bucs, the lower scoring the game, the better their success.
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Some noteworthy offensive stats----Team is #12 in the NL in runs scored per game, but leads the league in leaving runners on base.  Also, they're #29 in MLB in extra-base hit percentage per plate appearance.  They don't terrify opposing pitchers, for sure.

 
There is much to dislike about the state of the Bucs and their losing streak, including 66 runs allowed in the past 10 games.

Factoring out Cole's last 5 starts, but counting the four other pitchers in the rotation over their last 5 starts (20 games since July 22), it amounts to just 109 IP and a 5.86 ERA.

 
One of the Bucco announcers tweeted yesterday that Chad Kuhl's ERA in the past 15 starts is 3.56, and the NL starters' average is 4.36.

While interesting, one must note Ivan Nova's last 15 starts feature a 4.53 ERA and Jameson Taillon's recent 15 is 5.61. So perhaps certain developments balance out.

 
monessen said:
One of the Bucco announcers tweeted yesterday that Chad Kuhl's ERA in the past 15 starts is 3.56, and the NL starters' average is 4.36.

While interesting, one must note Ivan Nova's last 15 starts feature a 4.53 ERA and Jameson Taillon's recent 15 is 5.61. So perhaps certain developments balance out.
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After his initial fiasco of a start in early May versus LA, Trevor Williams has compiled a 3.92 ERA in his 19 subsequent starts.  Interestingly, his ERA in his past 10 starts is also 3.92.

 
Limp Ditka said:
What seems to be the issue here?
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Oh nothing, they just give up one of their best relievers for nothing, leaving the bullpen in even worse shape than before, all after management decided not to bring in anyone to help a month ago when they were 4 games back, and the continuance of using Stewart and his hefty BA over Diaz. 

 
In Hurdle's 7-year tenure, the Pirates have a .469 winning percentage for the month of August.  They tend to follow pretty good Julys with a crummy month.  That 4-game sweep of the Brewers back in Pgh seems like an eternity ago and created the semblance of contention.  Four quick shots of false hope.

 
Cannot understand the rationale for extending Huntington which seems like a done deal.  In the 9 Septembers during his tenure (2008-2016), the club has a .427 winning percentage, which is worse than their lousy Augusts.  How does such a body of work in that context merit a contract extension?

 
Huntington getting a 4-year extension will set off one of the larger firestorms in Pittsburgh sports history. No hyperbole.

 
Disheartening to see the Bucs continue to unravel since the All-Start break while the Brewers and Cardinals still manage to stay within range of the Cubs.

 
monessen said:
Disheartening to see the Bucs continue to unravel since the All-Start break while the Brewers and Cardinals still manage to stay within range of the Cubs.
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Signs of the problem----apart from the offense being 14th in the NL in hits, doubles, homers, batting average, and slugging percentage, the bullpen has a 4.65 ERA over the past 89 games.

 
Pirates are 20-36 since the 4 game sweep of Milwaukee in late July.

They epitomize what it means to be a demoralized group of players.

 
Drew Hutchison quietly DFA'd last week.

So let's see, trading Liriano AND two prospects for Hutchison... let's give the guy who came up with that plan a 4-year extension.

 
jfranco77 said:
Drew Hutchison quietly DFA'd last week.

So let's see, trading Liriano AND two prospects for Hutchison... let's give the guy who came up with that plan a 4-year extension.
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Every GM has moves that look bad in retrospect.  Huntington has been around for a decade and familiarity breeds contempt among hardcore fans but I think on the whole, he's done a good job with limited resources.

Searage has had success with pitchers with less natural ability than Hutchison.  It was a defensible trade to get a cheaper, younger arm.

 
It's a sinking ship.  All I can hope for is that we don't go another 20 years without a winning season (yes the bar is low).  The window closed 2 years ago.  99 wins and a wildcard matchup against the 98 win Cubs.  Such is the life of a Pirates fan......

 
Eephus said:
Every GM has moves that look bad in retrospect.  Huntington has been around for a decade and familiarity breeds contempt among hardcore fans but I think on the whole, he's done a good job with limited resources.

Searage has had success with pitchers with less natural ability than Hutchison.  It was a defensible trade to get a cheaper, younger arm.
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I don't think it was an awful trade mainly because I don't think the prospects we have up will do anything.  Liriano was toast at that point 

 
The club has the same record as the San Diego Padres.  They've played .427 ball over the past 10 Septembers.  They gave away bullpen mainstays Hughes, Nicasio, Watson for virtually nothing.   They're near the bottom in almost all hitting categories in the NL. 

How does that merit a 4 year extension for the GM?

 
#### the Pirates

“It’s a puzzling return for Pittsburgh, which was rumored to be asking for the Yankees’ Gleyber Torres—MLB.com’s no. 2 prospect, behind only Shohei Ohtani—in trade discussions with New York, and which exchanged its most valuable trade asset for players who might never become average regulars, let alone All-Stars. (As Ken Rosenthal noted, even the Yankees’ secondary prospects, like outfielder Clint Frazier, would have represented a better return.)”

“with likely long-term relievers Joe Musgrove and Michael Feliz, corner infielder Colin Moran, and fringe outfield prospect Jason Martin leaving the Astros’ system, Lunhow has completed the steal of the offseason.”

“in return for strengthening their run-prevention unit to such an extent, Houston essentially lost no production from its title-winning roster last year. Musgrove, Feliz, and Moran combined for less than two WAR last season, with most of that total coming from Musgrove’s stint in relief—a void that Peacock, for instance, could fill ably in 2018. Neither he nor Feliz has yet proven himself a viable long-term starter, and Moran is a decent if uninspiring third-base option who would never see playing time in Houston with Alex Bregman blocking his way. Neither Moran nor Martin—a 22-year-old outfielder who went unclaimed in last month’s Rule 5 draft—ranks as one of MLB.com’s top 100 prospects.”

 
"Bouncing back" to 2005 maybe  :wall:

I don't have a problem with Cutch leaving because the reality is that the Pirates have hit the wall.  So go get that ring he deserves it.   But man I hate the Giants.   I guess I should happy he didn't go to the Cardinals because that would have been about 3 kicks to the nuts.  

Trading Cutch about 20 hours before trading Gerritt Cole just smell like the more things change the more they stay the same.  Still have some really talent but are they going to be the next.  

 
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