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***Official***President Donald Trump (1 Viewer)

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Henry Ford said:
In fact, both viewed tobacco as an unsustainable crop.  Washington first, and later Jefferson, moved to small grains (wheat mostly, I believe) and in Jefferson's case - clover at Monticello.  I don't believe we had much wheat exporting going on in the late 1700s/early 1800s, particularly directly to foreign governments. 
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Virginia does seem to me to be a good place to raise wheat. Barley maybe?

 
bueno said:
As you were alive back then, want to enlighten me as to what they did grow that was a cash crop and wasn't sold to an overseas interest?
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As you seem to have very strong feelings about what former presidents grew on their plantations 200 years ago unburdened by any knowledge or research, maybe we should all just go with your guesses instead of looking it up.  Same thing, right?

Also, as an aside - overseas interest is not the same thing as foreign government.

 
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MikeIke said:
Can we get back to Donald freaking Trump as president? Why are we talking about barley? 
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I think Henry is trying to say that there's no historical precedent for a president to not divest himself of his holdings before office and it's come down to barley.

 
timschochet said:
Conversely the last two times we raised taxes (Clinton and Obama; in Obama's case it was actually an end to the Bush tax cuts), it DID spur the economy. Again, I don't know why this happened, but it did. It certainly has made me reconsider my own ideas about economics (I grew up believing in supply side.)
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no it didn't.  Clinton was President right when all three waves of baby boomers were right in the middle of their highest spending of their lifetimes. That's what spurred the economy and those three waves all ended it 2008, which is why the economy crashed.

 
Lutherman2112 said:
Caring about the conflict would require objective thought, analysis, reevaluation, and a decision. That's entirely too much to evaluate for the average voter. The average voter likes to support a view that can be summed up by a phrase that fits on a bumper sticker.
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:goodposting:

Hope. Change We Can Believe In. Yes We Can. Change We Need  Forward . Believe In America. I'm With Her . Stronger Together.  Let America BecAmerica Again. Make America Great Again.Yes , America Can. Putting People First. Prosperity And Progress. Reformer With Results . He's Making Us Proud Again. Return To Normalcy . For The Future.

 
timschochet said:
But bueno, the last time we had a tax cut (2001) it didn't spur the economy. I thought it would, but it didn't. How do you explain that?
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timschochet said:
Conversely the last two times we raised taxes (Clinton and Obama; in Obama's case it was actually an end to the Bush tax cuts), it DID spur the economy. Again, I don't know why this happened, but it did. It certainly has made me reconsider my own ideas about economics (I grew up believing in supply side.)
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Hint: More than one thing is usually going on at any particular moment in time.

 
Not getting a lot of coverage yet, but this politico story about how Republicans don't want to say anything that could be construed as remotely critical of Trump or oppose him in any way because they fear the wrath of Breitbart and Hannity and Trump's army of online trolls is one of the more frightening things I've seen about the coming Trump presidency:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-congress-republicans-232800

One guy makes some fairly innocuous comments about potential policy conflicts, Hannity and Breitbart pick it up and send out the signal to the alt-right army, and next thing you know the guy is getting death threats online.  No comment from Trumps people, of course, not even the former head of Breitbart now working directly for him.

So when do we get to the part where all the worst-case scenarios imagined by Trump detractors stop seeming increasingly more likely with each passing day?  I was assured by many posters here that those days would come.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Not getting a lot of coverage yet, but this politico story about how Republicans don't want to say anything that could be construed as remotely critical of Trump or oppose him in any way because they fear the wrath of Breitbart and Hannity and Trump's army of online trolls is one of the more frightening things I've seen about the coming Trump presidency:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-congress-republicans-232800

One guy makes some fairly innocuous comments about potential policy conflicts, Hannity and Breitbart pick it up and send out the signal to the alt-right army, and next thing you know the guy is getting death threats online.  No comment from Trumps people, of course, not even the former head of Breitbart now working directly for him.

So when do we get to the part where all the worst-case scenarios imagined by Trump detractors stop seeming increasingly more likely with each passing day?  I was assured by many posters here that those days would come.
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In 8 years.

 
Fear mongering!  Comrade Trump is going to take over the world. 

Just don't laugh so no one here gets offended and tries to silence people. Quite ironic. 

 
Two other ridiculous parts of the story:

The Breitbart guy says it's justified because they're standing between what the voters demanded in a "landslide election"  :loco:  Maybe this is what the Trumpers mean when they say the popular vote totals don't matter- Trumpers will just discard the truth anyway. 

Then the guy goes on to talk about how it's ok to call out the members by name and hold them accountable ... in an anonymous quote.  I guess when you're a Trumpkin accountability is something that only applies to other people.

 
The Donald's thin skin and huge ego are definitely his scariest attributes.

He really can't handle anyone who disagrees with him or doesn't like him.

Yet he's about to become the leader of a democracy, where hearing dissenting opinions is simply part of the job.

It's gonna get ugly.

 
Skoo said:
The Donald's thin skin and huge ego are definitely his scariest attributes.

He really can't handle anyone who disagrees with him or doesn't like him.

Yet he's about to become the leader of a democracy, where hearing dissenting opinions is simply part of the job.

It's gonna get ugly.
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The moron is out there tweeting again about how he would have won the popular vote.  His complete insecurity would be more amusing if he wasn't actually president elect

 
TobiasFunke said:
Not getting a lot of coverage yet, but this politico story about how Republicans don't want to say anything that could be construed as remotely critical of Trump or oppose him in any way because they fear the wrath of Breitbart and Hannity and Trump's army of online trolls is one of the more frightening things I've seen about the coming Trump presidency:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-congress-republicans-232800

One guy makes some fairly innocuous comments about potential policy conflicts, Hannity and Breitbart pick it up and send out the signal to the alt-right army, and next thing you know the guy is getting death threats online.  No comment from Trumps people, of course, not even the former head of Breitbart now working directly for him.

So when do we get to the part where all the worst-case scenarios imagined by Trump detractors stop seeming increasingly more likely with each passing day?  I was assured by many posters here that those days would come.
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Not to mention the GOP reps from districts filled with Trumpers.  My rep has  his nose so far up Trump's ### he can taste bronzer.

 
Skoo said:
The Donald's thin skin and huge ego are definitely his scariest attributes.

He really can't handle anyone who disagrees with him or doesn't like him.

Yet he's about to become the leader of a democracy, where hearing dissenting opinions is simply part of the job.

It's gonna get ugly.
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If there's one thing positive to take from it, Dems will be able to get under his skin easily as well.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Not getting a lot of coverage yet, but this politico story about how Republicans don't want to say anything that could be construed as remotely critical of Trump or oppose him in any way because they fear the wrath of Breitbart and Hannity and Trump's army of online trolls is one of the more frightening things I've seen about the coming Trump presidency:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-congress-republicans-232800

One guy makes some fairly innocuous comments about potential policy conflicts, Hannity and Breitbart pick it up and send out the signal to the alt-right army, and next thing you know the guy is getting death threats online.  No comment from Trumps people, of course, not even the former head of Breitbart now working directly for him.

So when do we get to the part where all the worst-case scenarios imagined by Trump detractors stop seeming increasingly more likely with each passing day?  I was assured by many posters here that those days would come.
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Well Mr. Sanford there is my Rep.  I plan to make sure he knows he has my full support to fight the posse.

 
MikeIke said:
:goodposting:

I don't think the rural types expect to become rich.  I think they vote Republican because they're Christian,  they are anti-abortion, and they want to keep their guns. All three of those positions point Republican.  Therefore,  if Republican politicians think trickle down works they must be right on that issue as well.  

Either that,  or God and guns are more important to them than their own financial well-being. That is a possibility. 

I'm wondering how long the rural poor stick with Trump if they lose their health insurance and see their Social Security and Medicare gutted.  Because that WILL happen if Paul Ryan gets his way.  (and I purposely said Ryan,  not Trump,  because I don't think Trump cares one way or the other and it will be Ryan leading the charge. Trump will just be a rubber stamp.) 
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Quoted for Trump's Veto of cutting Old People's Social Security. 

As far as caring about losing their health insurance they are more likely to be in the 300+ million category of people paying for theirs instead of the 22million who isn't paying. 

 
MikeIke said:
That's because it doesn't make sense,  and it doesn't work. "Give the richest people more money and they'll spend it,  eventually flowing down to everyone!" 

No,  it doesn't work that way in real life.  Give the richest more money and they'll use it to further enrich themselves.  The only one who see any trickle down are their financial advisors. 

ETA : along the same lines,  giving POOR people more money actually does boost the economy because they go out and spend it on goods and services.  They don't save it or put it into their portfolios. 
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The liberal mindset. 

Your income isn't earned it is given.

If you earn a lot in their opinion and not taxed enough for their liking you are given more money and it is at the expense of the poor. 

You didn't build that. 

 
Dr Oadi said:
The liberal mindset. 

Your income isn't earned it is given.

If you earn a lot in their opinion and not taxed enough for their liking you are given more money and it is at the expense of the poor. 

You didn't build that. 
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I'm a liberal, and earn my income and have worked very hard for what I have today. And, I vote for tax increases, when I feel it's appropriate.

Stop the generalizations.

 
Dr Oadi said:
The liberal mindset. 

Your income isn't earned it is given.

If you earn a lot in their opinion and not taxed enough for their liking you are given more money and it is at the expense of the poor. 

You didn't build that. 
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This still lives on?  Man, people sure buy in hard to a lot of bull#### they hear.

A liberal mindset is one where you don't do much of anything in America totally on your own.  You owe your successes, at least in part, to the work and sacrifices and contributions of others.  It's really not a controversial view, if one looks beyond the ridiculous soundbites and tries to understand what folks are saying.

Society makes a ton of success possible for folks, and in return society should receive a portion of the rewards - is more the liberal mindset.  Like a silent partner who fronts you the money to start your own business when you don't have it yourself, society fronts you roads, infrastructure, court system, police, a military, IP protection, educated workforce,  education system, housing, utilities, and generations of folks working to make products and systems better.  So when someone starts their own business, they're using all of these resources society puts at their disposal.  In return, society asks to also benefit from the successes of the company, so as to continue to "pay it forward" to others so they can also build and succeed.

The mindset is nowhere near as controversial as your talking points up there.  It's a pretty reasonable view of how people can achieve success.  

If a person can't achieve the same level of success in a tribal region in Africa as they can in America, you have to admit that in part the success is due to the society in which they live and the benefits derived from living in it.  

So in large part, "you didn't build that" by yourself...you benefitted from all this other stuff in order to succeed.  What's wrong with this mindset?

 
Republican politicians are hardly shrinking violets; they can handle the alt-right. 

This is so much hysteria on your guys' part. 

Breitbart and Hannity don't command armies of the night, they appeal to college undergrads and weird neckbeards everywhere. 

Of all the things to be worried about with Trump, this isn't one of them. Who's going to kill a politician. Milo Yianopolous?

 
Dr Oadi said:
Quoted for Trump's Veto of cutting Old People's Social Security. 

As far as caring about losing their health insurance they are more likely to be in the 300+ million category of people paying for theirs instead of the 22million who isn't paying. 
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What are you even talking about.  Close to 65 million Americans are on Medicaid and 44 million on Medicare.  

 
Dr Oadi said:
The liberal mindset. 

Your income isn't earned it is given.

If you earn a lot in their opinion and not taxed enough for their liking you are given more money and it is at the expense of the poor. 

You didn't build that. 
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This has nothing to do with a liberal or conservative mindset.  It's an empirical question about the effect of government stimulus (tax cuts or government spending) at different income levels.  Stimulus to lower earners is spread throughout the economy in a way that stimulus to high earners (who tend to save) is not.   To say that supply side economics has been discredited with liberals is a gross understatement.  Supply side economics has been discredited with pretty much all economists.  In 2012, 96% of surveyed economists disagreed with Laffer's principal claim, that a cut in the federal tax rate would stimulate income so that the actual federal tax base would increase.  We're not just talking about Paul Krugman.  We're talking about Greg Mankiw. 

 
Lutherman2112 said:
Bottom line and this is my own personal opinion: Hillary supporters don't give a rat's ### about any of her shadiness.

Caring about what she did would require a soul. Hilary did the following:

Rigging the Democratic party election againat her opponent with the dnc.

Threatened national security by illegally using a private email server to exchange government information. 

Used intimidation tactics such as the "truth squad" to silence Bill Clintons sexual assault victims. 

Actively accept money from Saudi Arabia and numerous other nations that enslave women and kill gay people. 

Used IRS to audit organizations and people critical of her husband's administration.

Got a child rapist of charges and laughed about it.

Falsely blamed a video responsible for the death of four soldiers she was in charge or protecting.

Fired from the judiciary committee investigating the  Watergate scandal for being a "liar", " unethical ", and conspiring to " violate the Constitution ". 

But but but but Trump said mean things!
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Fixed for you

 
rockaction said:
Republican politicians are hardly shrinking violets; they can handle the alt-right. 

This is so much hysteria on your guys' part. 

Breitbart and Hannity don't command armies of the night, they appeal to college undergrads and weird neckbeards everywhere. 

Of all the things to be worried about with Trump, this isn't one of them. Who's going to kill a politician. Milo Yianopolous?
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The Tea Party has been running out Republicans they don't like for 8 years, including high profile party leaders. I don't think this matters too much in the grand scheme but it's a real thing. 

 
Arsenal of Doom said:
The Tea Party has been running out Republicans they don't like for 8 years, including high profile party leaders. I don't think this matters too much in the grand scheme but it's a real thing. 
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No, Tobias is worried about actual violence and bullying and intimidation via threats.

It's not the Tea Party.

eta* I attended a Tea Party rally in Hartford. It was the most peaceful thing you'd ever seen. As a matter of fact, when I went over to debate the people holding up tin foil as a counter-protest, I was immediately discouraged by the event members (I have more O'Keefe in me than they do). Anyway, I came away unimpressed with the Tea Party which I found largely uninformed, opportunistic, and huckster-esque. I think I was right on all three parts, but what Tobias and Politico are alleging about the alt-right is nowhere near the Tea Party.  

 
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Ramblin Wreck said:
Stop generalizing. That's funny. 
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Apologies. Thought you were referring to Adonis. 

Putting aside the fact that you apparently believe that Beavers herself generalizes (and is therefore hypocritical), do you agree with her that Dr.Oadi's statement about liberals was in fact a gross generalization? 

 
rockaction said:
No, Tobias is worried about actual violence and bullying intimidation via threats.

It's not the Tea Party.
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Yeah, I didn't not think physical threats are going to do anything. It the threat of being primaried that matters. 

My impression, and admittedly I don't hang out on these sites much, is that Breitbart is one of the main info hubs for the Tea Party types.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Not getting a lot of coverage yet, but this politico story about how Republicans don't want to say anything that could be construed as remotely critical of Trump or oppose him in any way because they fear the wrath of Breitbart and Hannity and Trump's army of online trolls is one of the more frightening things I've seen about the coming Trump presidency:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/donald-trump-congress-republicans-232800

One guy makes some fairly innocuous comments about potential policy conflicts, Hannity and Breitbart pick it up and send out the signal to the alt-right army, and next thing you know the guy is getting death threats online.  No comment from Trumps people, of course, not even the former head of Breitbart now working directly for him.

So when do we get to the part where all the worst-case scenarios imagined by Trump detractors stop seeming increasingly more likely with each passing day?  I was assured by many posters here that those days would come.
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I think they are just copying what has been successful at our Universities...

 
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