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***Official***President Donald Trump (1 Viewer)

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Arsenal of Doom said:
Update on the Trump son's hunting trip/fundraiser:

The Trump family is distancing itself from a January 21 fundraising event after press reports that attendees could get a meeting with President Donald Trump for $1 million.

Wasn't something they were contemplating but they had a brochure made? The sons aren't involved in a charity they are listed as co-founding? 
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Haven't read much about this yet but wasn't "meeting donald" also one of the many scammish promises made in his fake university?

Still makes me laugh that our president settled a lawsuit for having a fake university after being elected  :lol:  

 
adonis said:
There are a lot of bad Trump voters out there, just like there are a lot of bad Hillary voters out there.  No need to throw all the babies out with the bathwater here.

I didn't listen to the video, don't really care to hear stupid people make racist tirades if that's what happened, but if it is what happened, it's disgusting and should be condemned by everyone, regardless of political affiliation and race.  Bad behavior is bad behavior...it doesn't always have to get assigned to your religion, race, or political party as representative of the whole.
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Exactly. I know a lot of Trump supporters, and this is not the norm. At the same time, I feel that education is needed here on the topic of generalizing a large group of individuals.

 
See, I've agreed with Boston twice now. Once about the universities, the other about this.

 
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timschochet said:
I disagree with nearly everything you wrote here, and at the root of our disagreement is your line about the left's "former monopoly of the news". 

I regard this as a false assumption. I recognize that it is believed, rather firmly at this point, by a vast majority of conservatives. And it's the source for many of our major differences. 
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Than we will agree to disagree because I 100% disagree with you as well...no need to continue...

 
butcher boy said:
I'm not worried about his popularity.  It will grow.  He ran for President because he wanted to give back to this country.  He did not need this hassle. He loves the U.S. and was concerned about the direction it was heading. That's a true patriot.
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In case Rohn Jambo is wondering what that sinewy figure he sees in the rear view mirror of his motorcycle, its butcher boy's shtick about to overtake him for best on the block.

 
timschochet said:
Fair enough. I strongly disagree with you about Beavers and about your overall premise. While she is no doubt very concerned about Donald Trump (as many people are) she doesn't come off as angry to me. And from what I've read the only time she has made cutting remarks is in direct response to cutting remarks made to her. 

To your larger point, it's my impression that the vast majority of those in this thread and the previous thread who seem to want to engage in pissing matches in order to claim they've "won" are Trump supporters. Most of the attempts since November 8 to engage Trump supporters in real discussions about policy concerns, appointments, the possible Russian involvement, and conflicts of interest have been met with laughter similes, accusations of whining, and comparisons to Hillary and previous Democrats which are now for the most part irrelevant. And yet you now accuse the other side of condescension. It's like pulling teeth to try to engage in real discussion and debate with most of you, but I suspect many of us will keep on trying. 
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I didn't call her angry. 

Speaking of generalizations yiu keep using the term trump supporters. You know everyone against Clinton and some of the recent liberal crap isn't a trump supporter. Again another reason people don't want the so called discussion you're begging for. We've told you this all summer and fall and you haven't learned yet so color me skeptical about you being serious now. 

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I didn't call her angry. 

Speaking of generalizations yiu keep using the term trump supporters. You know everyone against Clinton and some of the recent liberal crap isn't a trump supporter. Again another reason people don't want the so called discussion you're begging for. We've told you this all summer and fall and you haven't learned yet so color me skeptical about you being serious now. 
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If you voted for Trump, then you support Trump. Therefore, you're a Trump supporter.

 
Phase of the Game said:
That's because you don't get the responses you want to hear. Please go on about educating people about making generalizations. Will you teach that class or be a participant?
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The responses are, and in this order:

1. MSM is wrong; facts are wrong.

2. But Hillary...

3. But Obama ...

4. :lmao:

Discussion.failure.

 
beavers said:
adonis said:
There are a lot of bad Trump voters out there, just like there are a lot of bad Hillary voters out there.  No need to throw all the babies out with the bathwater here.

I didn't listen to the video, don't really care to hear stupid people make racist tirades if that's what happened, but if it is what happened, it's disgusting and should be condemned by everyone, regardless of political affiliation and race.  Bad behavior is bad behavior...it doesn't always have to get assigned to your religion, race, or political party as representative of the whole.
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Exactly. I know a lot of Trump supporters, and this is not the norm. At the same time, I feel that education is needed here on the topic of generalizing a large group of individuals.
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Ok, apparently I missed your point.  You were pointing out that calling that person a "trump voter" was an example of generalization.  

Without much context, and without much benefit of the doubt, it initially looked like you were just reversing the generalization to prove a point.

 
beavers said:
I have had zero success discussing Trump with a Trump supporter.
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Perhaps the answer lies in your mirror. Perhaps a different approach I dont feel you are genuinely interested in a 2 way discussion and willing to consider both sides. I  bet we really aren't much different 

 
beavers said:
If you voted for Trump, then you support Trump. Therefore, you're a Trump supporter.
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If I may interject myself somewhere I'm not wanted...

I voted for Hillary Clinton.  I am most definitely not a Clinton supporter.  I just found the idea of Trump as president so monumentally distasteful that I was willing to vote for someone there's no way I would ever vote for otherwise.  I know some people who feel similarly about Trump.  I don't agree with them.  I think their priorities are messed up.  I think they made a very bad decision.  But I wouldn't call them Trump supporters.  

Don't get me wrong, they will still be responsible when Ragnarok begins, but they weren't supporters per se.

 
Boston said:
Than we will agree to disagree because I 100% disagree with you as well...no need to continue...
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Of course we can and should continue. Clarity of disagreement is often just as worthwhile as agreement- perhaps more so. I have learned much more in life from those whom I've disagreed with than those who are of like mind.  :thumbup:

 
How about "sympathizers"?  Can we call them Trump sympathizers?

Edit: Wait - collaborators.  Trump collaborators. That's what I'll use.

 
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Arsenal of Doom said:
Update on the Trump son's hunting trip/fundraiser:

The Trump family is distancing itself from a January 21 fundraising event after press reports that attendees could get a meeting with President Donald Trump for $1 million.

Wasn't something they were contemplating but they had a brochure made? The sons aren't involved in a charity they are listed as co-founding? 
Click to expand...
"It was miraculous.  It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice.

Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all.  It merely required no character."

 
HellToupee said:
Perhaps the answer lies in your mirror. Perhaps a different approach I dont feel you are genuinely interested in a 2 way discussion and willing to consider both sides. I  bet we really aren't much different 
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Engage me in a discussion, inclusive of facts and unbiased viewpoints, and I will consider your side.

 
beavers said:
If you voted for Trump, then you support Trump. Therefore, you're a Trump supporter.
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Do you know who I voted for? If yes tell me how you know.  If no then you're generalizing just as I got a good laugh from earlier. 

Furthermore you didn't comprehend one word of the post you replied to. 

 
And I respectfully disagree with Beavers about Trump supporters. There are many different kinds. Some are quite reasonable. Some are more fanatic. And some, while reasonable, pretend to be less so in order to antagonize those on the other side, which they take great pleasure in doing because they feel like they've been condescended to for years. 

I get the feeling that in this forum there are a lot of the third type I just described. 

 
Henry Ford said:
If I may interject myself somewhere I'm not wanted...

I voted for Hillary Clinton.  I am most definitely not a Clinton supporter.  I just found the idea of Trump as president so monumentally distasteful that I was willing to vote for someone there's no way I would ever vote for otherwise.  I know some people who feel similarly about Trump.  I don't agree with them.  I think their priorities are messed up.  I think they made a very bad decision.  But I wouldn't call them Trump supporters.  

Don't get me wrong, they will still be responsible when Ragnarok begins, but they weren't supporters per se.
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I disagree. If you vote for a candidate, then you support that candidate, and their position on policy.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
Do you know who I voted for? If yes tell me how you know.  If no then you're generalizing just as I got a good laugh from earlier. 

Furthermore you didn't comprehend one word of the post you replied to. 
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I didn't follow you into the booth, but I'm 99% sure I know who you voted for, and it wasn't Trump.

 
timschochet said:
And I respectfully disagree with Beavers about Trump supporters. There are many different kinds. Some are quite reasonable. Some are more fanatic. And some, while reasonable, pretend to be less so in order to antagonize those on the other side, which they take great pleasure in doing because they feel like they've been condescended to for years. 

I get the feeling that in this forum there are a lot of the third type I just described. 
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It was an example of generalization. The FFA lesson for the day.

 
beavers said:
I disagree. If you vote for a candidate, then you support that candidate, and their position on policy.
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That's pretty easily falsifiable.  You just have to find one person who has voted for someone whose policies they disagree with.  That's pretty easy to do.

 
beavers said:
I disagree. If you vote for a candidate, then you support that candidate, and their position on policy.
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This seems awfully simplistic. I may have been the biggest Hillary supporter in this forum, and I certainly didn't agree with her on EVERY policy position. 

 
timschochet said:
Of course we can and should continue. Clarity of disagreement is often just as worthwhile as agreement- perhaps more so. I have learned much more in life from those whom I've disagreed with than those who are of like mind.  :thumbup:
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Ok...fair enough...but gotta go earn some money so this one has to be tabled...

 
timschochet said:
And I respectfully disagree with Beavers about Trump supporters. There are many different kinds. Some are quite reasonable. Some are more fanatic. And some, while reasonable, pretend to be less so in order to antagonize those on the other side, which they take great pleasure in doing because they feel like they've been condescended to for years. 

I get the feeling that in this forum there are a lot of the third type I just described. 
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First piece of advice is to stop believing that anyone is pretending.  I believe what you describe as group 3 is very small.

 
Bruce Dickinson said:
"It was miraculous.  It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice.

Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all.  It merely required no character."
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Wow. Where's that quote from? Don't know whether to be impressed or overly SAD!...?

 
timschochet said:
This seems awfully simplistic. I may have been the biggest Hillary supporter in this forum, and I certainly didn't agree with her on EVERY policy position. 
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You agreed with Clinton more than you agreed with Trump so therefore, you voted and supported her to become POTUS.

No one will ever agree with policy 100%, I get that. But to say you didn't support a candidate you voted for is :loco:

 
beavers said:
I disagree. If you vote for a candidate, then you support that candidate, and their position on policy.
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Disagree.  And not just because political science research tells us the average voter is drawn to a candidate first, and their policies second.

We've got a perfectly good word for what you're describing.  "Voter".  A "supporter" does much more that pull a lever on Election Day.

 
beavers said:
I disagree. If you vote for a candidate, then you support that candidate, and their position on policy.
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Really?  Do you support widespread fracking throughout the world?  Do you support the drone war that's killed two and a half thousand civilians overseas? Do you support rampant expansion of spying on Americans in this country, launching Congressional investigations into video games, pulling anti-missile batteries out of Poland and the Czech Republic, and a private email server that was against administration policy and the law?  I don't.  But all of those positions and policies have been taken and supported by Secretary Clinton in the last decade or so.  And that's without even discussing any of the "superpredator" legislation or the like.

You don't have to 100% support someone's positions on policy to vote for them.  You just have to make a choice.  There has never been a candidate for President that I 100% support on all policies or positions.  

 
beavers said:
You agreed with Clinton more than you agreed with Trump so therefore, you voted and supported her to become POTUS.

No one will ever agree with policy 100%, I get that. But to say you didn't support a candidate you voted for is :loco:
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Many people I know who voted for Donald Trump disagreed with many if not most of his popular campaign proposals. They voted for him because of the Supreme Court, because of Obamacare, and because they despised Hillary Clinton. 

 
beavers said:
You agreed with Clinton more than you agreed with Trump so therefore, you voted and supported her to become POTUS.

No one will ever agree with policy 100%, I get that. But to say you didn't support a candidate you voted for is :loco:
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Perhaps the second most important thing I've ever learned in my life is that when you think a bunch of otherwise reasonable people are crazy, it's a good idea to try to look at that perspective and assume it's valid for a moment.  Check and see if maybe you're the one who's being unreasonable.

 
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