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***Official***President Donald Trump (1 Viewer)

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Henry Ford said:
Really?  Do you support widespread fracking throughout the world?  Do you support the drone war that's killed two and a half thousand civilians overseas? Do you support rampant expansion of spying on Americans in this country, launching Congressional investigations into video games, pulling anti-missile batteries out of Poland and the Czech Republic, and a private email server that was against administration policy and the law?  I don't.  But all of those positions and policies have been taken and supported by Secretary Clinton in the last decade or so.  And that's without even discussing any of the "superpredator" legislation or the like.

You don't have to 100% support someone's positions on policy to vote for them.  You just have to make a choice.  There has never been a candidate for President that I 100% support on all policies or positions.  
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I'm not arguing this. And yes, I never 100% agree with a candidate's positions on policy.

At the same time, I value particular positions more than others and vote for the candidate that aligns most. With that being said, some of HRCs positions that I value most aligned with mine and as a result, I supported her as the POTUS.

 
Henry Ford said:
The Founding Fathers are like the Bible.  Each side takes what it thinks is worthwhile and ditches the rest.  We all ditched slavery, the left is weak on the second amendment, the right is weak on the first amendment, and so on, and so on, and so on.
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I think both sides are equally terrible on the first amendment.  People on the right like to make noise about restricting pornography and making television more prudish.  People on the left want to restrict the ability to air commercials and movies that talk about political candidates close to an election.  And both Trump and Hillary favor criminalizing flag-burning.

 
IvanKaramazov said:
I think both sides are equally terrible on the first amendment.  People on the right like to make noise about restricting pornography and making television more prudish.  People on the left want to restrict the ability to air commercials and movies that talk about political candidates close to an election.  And both Trump and Hillary favor criminalizing flag-burning.
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1. People on the left who want to restrict political speech are idiots and I try (and often succeed) to forget they exist.  Thanks for reminding me;

2. The bill you're talking about with Clinton isn't anywhere near what you (and others) make it sound like.  I don't know if you're aware of the text or the context of the bill, but that bill isn't a basis to believe she wants to "criminalize flag burning" per se.

 
beavers said:
I'm not arguing this. And yes, I never 100% agree with a candidate's positions on policy.

At the same time, I value particular positions more than others and vote for the candidate that aligns most. With that being said, some of HRCs positions that I value most aligned with mine and as a result, I supported her as the POTUS.
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Perhaps you should rethink how you worded this:

beavers said:
I disagree. If you vote for a candidate, then you support that candidate, and their position on policy.
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Henry Ford said:
Perhaps the second most important thing I've ever learned in my life is that when you think a bunch of otherwise reasonable people are crazy, it's a good idea to try to look at that perspective and assume it's valid for a moment.  Check and see if maybe you're the one who's being unreasonable.
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Voting for a candidate is supporting that candidate for the office that they are running for.

Some voted for Trump because of SCOTUS. Some voted because of immigration. Whatever the reason, those voters supported a Trump presidency.

Henry Ford said:
Perhaps you should rethink how you worded this:
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Fair enough. It was not my intent to say that a vote for a candidate is a 100% agreement with position on policy.

However, those individuals supported a Trump presidency, for whatever the reason is.

 
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beavers said:
Voting for a candidate is supporting that candidate for the office that they are running for.

Some voted for Trump because of SCOTUS. Some voted because of immigration. Whatever the reason, those voters supported a Trump presidency.

Fair enough. It was not my intent to say that a vote for a candidate is a 100% agreement with position on policy.

However, those individuals supported a Trump presidency, for whatever the reason is.
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Well, they supported a Trump presidency over a Clinton presidency.  That's a different statement. 

 
Henry Ford said:
Perhaps the second most important thing I've ever learned in my life is that when you think a bunch of otherwise reasonable people are crazy, it's a good idea to try to look at that perspective and assume it's valid for a moment.  Check and see if maybe you're the one who's being unreasonable.
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OK, I checked.  Nope.  They're idiots. 

 
beavers said:
Let me rephrase this in the form of a question ...

Are you claiming that those who voted for Trump to become president, did not necessarily support him becoming president?
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I am claiming that some of those who voted for Trump would have voted for a bag of gravel, or two golden retrievers in a trench coat, or Bernie from Weekend at Bernie's if they had been the only viable option other than Hillary Clinton, including many who believe (perhaps rightly) that if he tries to institute any of his policies he will immediately be impeached and removed as President.  Which means they do not support Trump or his policies. 

 
Let me rephrase with my own statement.  I supported a Clinton presidency over a Trump presidency.  That is not to say that I support Hillary Clinton becoming president, or most of her policies.  What I supported was in the event that I must choose between a snake oil salesman with a terrible spray tan who will sell this country to the highest bidder for a dollar and has no real understanding of politics and foreign policy and a war hawk who represents virtually everything I hate about the current system but who is very polished on foreign policy and will be at least closer to what I think this country should do domestically, I choose the war hawk.   Which is not to say that I support war hawks.  Far from it.  I didn't want Clinton in the primaries, or in the Senate, or as Secretary of State.  But between a pile of dog #### and lime jello, I would prefer to eat lime jello.  Even though they should take the whole flavor out of production.

 
Henry Ford said:
I am claiming that some of those who voted for Trump would have voted for a bag of gravel, or two golden retrievers in a trench coat, or Bernie from Weekend at Bernie's if they had been the only viable option other than Hillary Clinton, including many who believe (perhaps rightly) that if he tries to institute any of his policies he will immediately be impeached and removed as President.  Which means they do not support Trump or his policies. 
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You're reaching here, Henry.

For the sake of an open, transparent discussion ...

Let's assume you're right and that some Trump voters sincerely thought by electing him, it would be the ultimate #### block to HRC. *IF* that's the case, why aren't we seeing a sub-group of Trump voters openly advocate against some (or all) of his actions already and contact their representative to investigate for impeachment? Cabinet appointments, the lack of transparency with his businesses, the support for Russia (and lack of condemnation for hacking), the Twitter war with China, the Twitter war with the union leader of Carrier etc.

If they voted for him, but didn't support him as president and want him impeached, why isn't this happening?

 
beavers said:
You're reaching here, Henry.

For the sake of an open, transparent discussion ...

Let's assume you're right and that some Trump voters sincerely thought by electing him, it would be the ultimate #### block to HRC. *IF* that's the case, why aren't we seeing a sub-group of Trump voters openly advocate against some (or all) of his actions already and contact their representative to investigate for impeachment? Cabinet appointments, the lack of transparency with his businesses, the support for Russia (and lack of condemnation for hacking), the Twitter war with China, the Twitter war with the union leader of Carrier etc.

If they voted for him, but didn't support him as president and want him impeached, why isn't this happening?
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I'm directly stating positions taken by people I know who say that they voted for Donald Trump.

And we aren't seeing that because he hasn't taken any illegal positions or done anything that's illegal yet, primarily because he isn't President yet. You can't impeach someone for crimes in office when he isn't in office.

 
Henry Ford said:
I'm directly stating positions taken by people I know who say that they voted for Donald Trump.

And we aren't seeing that because he hasn't taken any illegal positions or done anything that's illegal yet, primarily because he isn't President yet. You can't impeach someone for crimes in office when he isn't in office.
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Of course, but he will be violating the Constitution day one so why not get a head start with the preparations.

 
beavers said:
You're reaching here, Henry.

For the sake of an open, transparent discussion ...

Let's assume you're right and that some Trump voters sincerely thought by electing him, it would be the ultimate #### block to HRC. *IF* that's the case, why aren't we seeing a sub-group of Trump voters openly advocate against some (or all) of his actions already and contact their representative to investigate for impeachment? Cabinet appointments, the lack of transparency with his businesses, the support for Russia (and lack of condemnation for hacking), the Twitter war with China, the Twitter war with the union leader of Carrier etc.

If they voted for him, but didn't support him as president and want him impeached, why isn't this happening?
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My opinion, which won't be popular, is, right now its more fun bashing liberals and telling them I told you so about the disenfranchised blah blah blah...

 
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badmojo1006 said:
For once I agree with HellToupee. No way with a Republican controlled Senate and House will Trump ever be considered for impeachment
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...assuming he doesn't cross the Republicans on their agenda.  If he does, they'll threaten.  And if he doesn't, then the people who said they'd be for his impeachment if he tries to institute his agenda as stated during the campaign have nothing to be upset about.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
I'm not interested in engaging her. Every response of hers is condescending and angry. She's as close minded as anyone on this board so she can literally beg someone else for an argument. All I did was point out someone who generalizes all the time is asking to stop generalizations. Hell Tim you've responded three times to me with your normal wrong post, followed by ridiculous question and now begging for an argument. 

If i want to comment on something I will. I might be willing to engage one of you in a real discussion if I thought there was a point, you guys weren't so condescending, and it was an actual discussion not a pissing match where you're looking to claim you won. There's plenty of people that will give you that. 
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So...you admit to doing nothing but trolling.  This post  is as condescending as anything else others have posted.  And this is seriously how you always post.

If you have nothing to post about Trump...why do you continue to come in this thread? (Goes for Cleaver's alias too)

This is not to say I always stay on topic...Id never claim that. But I have and will continue posting about the actual topic.  Posts like yours are the things that get threads nuked.

Try having an actual conversation or just quit clicking the damn thread.  Pretty simple.

 
Da Guru said:
Yes..it reminds me of "The Hope and Change" slogan that was never repeated again the day after the election.
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"Hope and Change" was not a slogan as far as I remember. "Change we can believe in" was a slogan. Obama referred to making changes all the time after taking office, and made many of them.  The Hope thing came from a Fairey poster.  

So you misstated an Obama slogan he actually delivered on (you can debate the degree but he definitely made some big changes, e.g. ending the Iraq war and passing Obamacare) and then compared it to Trump explicitly ordering his people to drop his slogan before he even takes office because even he knows that his nominations directly contradict its basic premise.

 
Henry Ford said:
...assuming he doesn't cross the Republicans on their agenda.  If he does, they'll threaten.  And if he doesn't, then the people who said they'd be for his impeachment if he tries to institute his agenda as stated during the campaign have nothing to be upset about.
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Doubtful.

The idea of Trump supporters (i.e. voters) to impeach him if he tries to institute any of his policies are .... amazing actually.

 
sho nuff said:
So...you admit to doing nothing but trolling.  This post  is as condescending as anything else others have posted.  And this is seriously how you always post.

If you have nothing to post about Trump...why do you continue to come in this thread? (Goes for Cleaver's alias too)

This is not to say I always stay on topic...Id never claim that. But I have and will continue posting about the actual topic.  Posts like yours are the things that get threads nuked.

Try having an actual conversation or just quit clicking the damn thread.  Pretty simple.
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You've posted a half dozen times this week alone playing board cop. Where are your actual topic discussions?  If you're capable read the entire exchange. You'll see who posted the first line of nonsense and who has been doubling down on it all morning being called out by several. 

But no I didn't admit to trolling. Stop putting words in my mouth. In fact stop following me around in a creepy fashion. Thanks. 

 
badmojo1006 said:
For once I agree with HellToupee. No way with a Republican controlled Senate and House will Trump ever be considered for impeachment
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Probably not...though...not as if he hasn't made enemies there. 

They feel they can play him?or can they control Pence more easily.  

If they feel they get what they want better from Pence...and Trump gives them the opening? I wouldn't put anything past them.

but it's so highly unlikely

 
beavers said:
Doubtful.

The idea of Trump supporters (i.e. voters) to impeach him if he tries to institute any of his policies are .... amazing actually.
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I don't know what things are like in Ohio, but there's the whole gamut of types of Trump supporters in Louisiana.

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
You've posted a half dozen times this week alone playing board cop. Where are your actual topic discussions?  If you're capable read the entire exchange. You'll see who posted the first line of nonsense and who has been doubling down on it all morning being called out by several. 

But no I didn't admit to trolling. Stop putting words in my mouth. In fact stop following me around in a creepy fashion. Thanks. 
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You frequently claim to be a victim of stalking. When will you realize that you're just not that important?

 
Henry Ford said:
I don't know what things are like in Ohio, but there's the whole gamut of types of Trump supporters in Louisiana.
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See ;)

And, I know and have spoken to several Trump supporters in the OH, and PA, FL. And, my ifriends here in the FFA. This is the first that I heard that Trump voters wanting to impeach him if he tries to institute any of his policies. If that's a stance that picks up momentum, then it will be a fun 4 years.

 
beavers said:
See ;)

And, I know and have spoken to several Trump supporters in the OH, and PA, FL. And, my ifriends here in the FFA. This is the first that I heard that Trump voters wanting to impeach him if he tries to institute any of his policies. If that's a stance that picks up momentum, then it will be a fun 4 years.
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Don't worry, that will be the last time I go ahead and assume we're just having a pleasant interlude in a discussion where I can use your loose language without worrying you'll be ridiculous about it.

 
timschochet said:
No offense but do you have any kind of response other than "Hey the other side did it too!"???

it just gets awful tiring. 
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Tim..please you are talking about something that gets tiring??

When are you going to realize that the game stays the same and only the players change.

 
timschochet said:
No offense but do you have any kind of response other than "Hey the other side did it too!"???

it just gets awful tiring. 
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Especially since in this case the other side didn't do it at all.  

I suspect that throughout the Trump presidency people are going to try to normalize his crappiniess in lots of ways, particularly by pointing to previous administrations.  We shouldn't let this happen.  Trump's campaign and transition have been awful in ways that are unprecedented for either Democratic or Republican candidates and presidents-elect. I assume that will also be the case with his presidency.

 
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