***Official*** Ronnie Hillman bandwagon.... (3 Viewers)

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

How did so many people Miss what john Fox said on like Wednesday? He named him the starter then.

 

[BallparkFrank]

How did so many people Miss what john Fox said on like Wednesday? He named him the starter then.

Most people assumed that the "Knowshon will take McGahee's place" to mean that he'd simply take his gameday active roster spot - especially since he went on and on about it being a RBBC. I grabbed Moreno last week, but I don't think Fox ever actually declared him the starter.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Used my last pickup on him as I had been waiting for Hillman to get his opportunity all season. ####.

 

[The Jerk]

Yeah, they give opinions on the internet and radio. I'm sure they have enough sense not to take themselves to seriously. Listening to Cecil on his Sunday morning show here in Denver, I think he gets it that what he does is primarily entertainment.

Excellent observation. As fantasy football has become integrated into the mainstream, the emphasis on content vs. packaging has changed. Just like ESPN shifted its emphasis more toward entertainment during the 1990s, FF providers and even FBG itself has changed in the past decade. I'm sure this benefits the actual providers, as far more people are interested in being entertained than in being informed, but I think hard core FFers are hindered by this change. FBG has always relied more on content, but it is not immune to the overall change in information presentation.I'll readily admit that my FF success/failure is all on me, not on anyone else. However, I'm long past my early 20s and as life changes, your priorities tend to get adjusted, and time allocation follows suit. Obviously it's a good thing overall, but my FF approach can no longer be as independent as it was before. In my case, the combination of a holiday week, a sick child, two milestone family birthdays and a home renovation project took a lot of time out of my already limited individual research opportunities. I trusted what I saw on the site and in some of the Shark Pool threads. It cost me. My mistake.It's absolutely wrong to attempt to place blame anywhere but on the owners who made the move to start Hillman this week, including me. My situation was complicated by my only other option being Leshoure on Thursday. Once that ship sailed, the die was cast. (League rules and roster size factor in, but I'll leave out the details.) On the other hand, it's at least as wrong to dismiss criticism of Lammey et al concerning the Hillman issue. I don't care that most other FF sites were similarly fooled. I'm here because I believe FBG is the best and most objective FF source in the world. Unlike most other Shark Pool posters (at least by what they post), I make mistakes often, not just in FF but in life. So I can live with FBG missing on their analysis. What I find unacceptable is how it appears that this mistake flowed from a substantial bias toward one player and away from another. And although I did not hear the post-Week 12 audible, if it's true that Lammey refused to own his miss as others have posted, that causes me to have even greater concern.It's as simple as the old adage, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. At this time, it appears that a given source allows bias to supersede analysis and information gathering, and then further compounds the problem with stubbornness in the face of actual results. I'd have to be pretty stupid to continue to follow the recommendations of this source. You can look through thousands of posts by me and you will find criticism of FBG staff -- or even posters -- to be exceedingly rare. Even though I've mentioned that ultimately the mistake lies with me, I expect I'll be roasted by some in the Shark Pool for "blaming others" or wanting them to manage my team or whatever. Knock yourselves out. Biased information and willfully blind/stubborn sources are not what built FBG's sterling reputation and helped so many FBGs win championships. Mistakes are acceptable, but mistaken approaches need to be corrected.

 

[PhantomJB]

This thread is funny. Do Cecil lammey and fbg have future telling crystal balls that I don't know about? If so where do I get me one of those?? These guys are humans people, not cyborgs. They are wrong...they are wrong A LOT. They whiff on players and also hit on players like marcel Reece, who they tagged as "the raiders rb to own if McFadden Goes down".

What we are talking about here is a bunch of dudes who have played ff format years and loved the game so much that they made careers out of it. Does that mean they are always right? Every one of these guys is in like 10-30 leagues if not more and I guarantee you for every Super Bowl they win they finish in the bottom 3rd in 3 others.

Projecting the future is always a guessing game. Fbg doesn't know what will happen 5 minutes from now in the football world any more than you or I do. They had an opinion on hillman and Moreno and they stuck to that opinion and they were wrong. It happens.

To all the guys blasting fbg on this thread I ask you: have you see gambled an lost? Bet on a sporting event and lost even though you felt certain of the outcome and that your analysis was sound?

Ff is gambling. It's betting. Fbg is no better at it than any other very experienced ff player who obsesses or the game like they do.

The information on Moreno was out there. I did not have him on my roster until 12pm Sunday. I heard a rumor that he was going to start and I acted first asked questions later. I picked him up andthen I investigated. I saw lammeys opinion and ten I used my own brain to think through the situation, unbiased. I read news reports of fox and manning gushing about Moreno in practice. I knew that Moreno is good with the blitz pick up and hillman struggles in that area and that the broncos out a premium on protecting manning. I know that lance ball is a decent rb but nothing special. I know that Moreno when healthy is a very good rb that has proven it for several years. I knew that Moreno was healthy yesterday. He started the year as the backup to mcgahee and lost that job due to a careless fumble. He went into fox's dog house. Hillman in the meant time really didn't light the world on fire and struggled in pass pro.

Moreno was named the starter over 30 minutes prior to game time. The hillman owners chose to view that news with rise colored glasses. So did fbg. I also heard Andy Behrens for yahoo say "I wouldn't put much cred into who is starting I think hillman will see the bulk of the carries".

I listened to and read all other opinions and then at the end o it all I FORMED MY OWN and stuck Moreno into my flex. Was I nervous about it? Hell yeah! Moreno is made of glass and has screwed me before. But he is in a Payton manning led defense and against the chiefs? And starting? It was too tempting not to go that way.

The writing was on the wall for ANYONE to read as long as you took an unbiased approach to it.

LOL quit apologizing for these guys. FBG advocated that THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS spend 25-50 percent of their WW budget on Hillman. That WW money is now gone and opponents in their league can now pick up Moreno for WW pennies.In This Episode: Cecil Lammey, Sigmund Bloom, and Dr. Jene Bramel go over the hot waiver wire pickups. Topics Include - why Ronnie Hillman is the top addition, where should Rob Gronkowski owners turn, plus more!

If people pay money for good advice, then THEIR PAYING SUBSCRIBERS have a right to boo the product on the field.

Let them vent.

 

[habsfan]

Projecting the future is always a guessing game. Fbg doesn't know what will happen 5 minutes from now in the football world any more than you or I do. They had an opinion on hillman and Moreno and they stuck to that opinion and they were wrong. It happens. To all the guys blasting fbg on this thread I ask you: have you see gambled an lost? Bet on a sporting event and lost even though you felt certain of the outcome and that your analysis was sound? Ff is gambling. It's betting. Fbg is no better at it than any other very experienced ff player who obsesses or the game like they do.

At the risk of getting pedantic, the performance of a player and the outcome of the game would require a crystal ball. No reasonable person expects that. On the other hand, being dramatically wrong with respect to the division of labor for a key offensive role when you are "an Insider for ESPN Denver" seems a bit different to me. I think a reasonable person expects him to be "less wrong" on a matter like that.I think a significant portion of fantasy players can be quick to blame experts when they are wrong but I think an equally significant portion are too quick to indemnify them against their every mistake.

 

[Slapdash]

In hindsight, it should have been obvious Fox would go with Moreno given his treatment of young RBs during his stay in Carolina.

 

[Ty_Webb]

So is Lammey ever going to comment on this or just pretend like it never happened? His explanation might provide a good cautionary tale for the future.

 

[Mistabishi]

In hindsight, it should have been obvious Fox would go with Moreno given his treatment of young RBs during his stay in Carolina.

Agreed. Unfortunately I didn't give myself enough time to think this through. Those few points could cost me a tiebreaker and the playoffs.

 

[BallparkFrank]

In hindsight, it should have been obvious Fox would go with Moreno given his treatment of young RBs during his stay in Carolina.

While probably true, this seems a lot more like "I own Hillman and still think he's the Broncos best RB and the only reason he's not the workhorse or starter is because he's a rookie". I'm not sure Hillman's shown us anything but a few flashes to warrant the kind of hype he's received around here. Certainly it could happen, but I'm guessing Fox is going with the guy that gives him the best chance to win while they still have Manning. Judging by yesterday, Moreno's the best all-around RB the Broncos have - and by a fair margin.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

How did so many people Miss what john Fox said on like Wednesday? He named him the starter then.

Most people assumed that the "Knowshon will take McGahee's place" to mean that he'd simply take his gameday active roster spot - especially since he went on and on about it being a RBBC. I grabbed Moreno last week, but I don't think Fox ever actually declared him the starter.

why would you assume that. He had been praciting with the ones all week

 

[JFS171]

People tend to see things how they want to see them. I pointed out Cecil's bias, and was questioned as to how he was biased. Addressed that with a clarification, and there were no other comments to the matter.

IMO, knowing the coach, the situation with the RBs, and reading quotes from Fox, Manning, and even Hillman himself (all posted in the Know-Show Moreno thread), to me it seemed Moreno was the own.

I was personally surprised to see Hillman get fewer carries, but Moreno is more effective on passing downs than McGahee ever was, so I suppose it's understandable from that point of view.

I compared the situation to Dwyer's in Pittsburgh - that's exactly what happened. Moreno wasn't inactive because he sucked. He was inactive because he wasn't as good on early downs as McGahee, wasn't a COP from McGahee really, and didn't play Special Teams like Ball.

However, when McGahee is no longer around, Moreno's the best early down back, doesn't need to play ST to get a jersey, and is more effective on third downs than McGahee was, meaning it's plausible that's the reason Hillman's role was reduced. And the inactive time off allowed his knee to more fully recover from the ACL tear - again, all posted elsewhere on the board (some in the McGahee torn ACL thread, some in here, some in the Know-Show Moreno thread).

People see what they want to see...

 

[mphtrilogy]

i blame myself.. for forgetting we were dealing with John Fox

oh well...

 

[rickyg]

This thread is funny. Do Cecil lammey and fbg have future telling crystal balls that I don't know about? If so where do I get me one of those?? These guys are humans people, not cyborgs. They are wrong...they are wrong A LOT. They whiff on players and also hit on players like marcel Reece, who they tagged as "the raiders rb to own if McFadden Goes down".

What we are talking about here is a bunch of dudes who have played ff format years and loved the game so much that they made careers out of it. Does that mean they are always right? Every one of these guys is in like 10-30 leagues if not more and I guarantee you for every Super Bowl they win they finish in the bottom 3rd in 3 others.

Projecting the future is always a guessing game. Fbg doesn't know what will happen 5 minutes from now in the football world any more than you or I do. They had an opinion on hillman and Moreno and they stuck to that opinion and they were wrong. It happens.

To all the guys blasting fbg on this thread I ask you: have you see gambled an lost? Bet on a sporting event and lost even though you felt certain of the outcome and that your analysis was sound?

Ff is gambling. It's betting. Fbg is no better at it than any other very experienced ff player who obsesses or the game like they do.

The information on Moreno was out there. I did not have him on my roster until 12pm Sunday. I heard a rumor that he was going to start and I acted first asked questions later. I picked him up andthen I investigated. I saw lammeys opinion and ten I used my own brain to think through the situation, unbiased. I read news reports of fox and manning gushing about Moreno in practice. I knew that Moreno is good with the blitz pick up and hillman struggles in that area and that the broncos out a premium on protecting manning. I know that lance ball is a decent rb but nothing special. I know that Moreno when healthy is a very good rb that has proven it for several years. I knew that Moreno was healthy yesterday. He started the year as the backup to mcgahee and lost that job due to a careless fumble. He went into fox's dog house. Hillman in the meant time really didn't light the world on fire and struggled in pass pro.

Moreno was named the starter over 30 minutes prior to game time. The hillman owners chose to view that news with rise colored glasses. So did fbg. I also heard Andy Behrens for yahoo say "I wouldn't put much cred into who is starting I think hillman will see the bulk of the carries".

I listened to and read all other opinions and then at the end o it all I FORMED MY OWN and stuck Moreno into my flex. Was I nervous about it? Hell yeah! Moreno is made of glass and has screwed me before. But he is in a Payton manning led defense and against the chiefs? And starting? It was too tempting not to go that way.

The writing was on the wall for ANYONE to read as long as you took an unbiased approach to it.

LOL quit apologizing for these guys. FBG advocated that THEIR PAYING CUSTOMERS spend 25-50 percent of their WW budget on Hillman. That WW money is now gone and opponents in their league can now pick up Moreno for WW pennies.In This Episode: Cecil Lammey, Sigmund Bloom, and Dr. Jene Bramel go over the hot waiver wire pickups. Topics Include - why Ronnie Hillman is the top addition, where should Rob Gronkowski owners turn, plus more!

If people pay money for good advice, then THEIR PAYING SUBSCRIBERS have a right to boo the product on the field.

Let them vent.

Dude. I hate apologists so trust me I'm not apologizing for fbg. I don't give a crap about that. I think that it's fair to make fun of lammey for his botched call on hillman. Tell him he sucks at fantasy football, etc etc. it was a horrible call. But that was his OPINION. He did not believe in mcgahee and believed in hillman and he went out on a limb for it. I'm sure he backed up his recommendation with the same actions for his own teams and lost out as well along with anyone who listened to him.

My point was that he is human and it seems like people expect everything he says will happen to come to fruition or he has failed them. Football is one of the most unpredictable sports out there. Any given Sunday, rt?

Just BC Cecil lammey and fbg advocates spending 20%-25% on hillman and not mcgahee doesn't mean You or anyone should listen. I didn't. They also did not advocate spending much on danario Alexander until it wa too late. The people who formed their own opinions and didn't solely rely on what fbg says picked up danario and Moreno.

Take what all of the "experts" say (and I use the term experts in fantasy football loosely), internalize it and then form your own opinion and stick by it. Them you will have no one to be angry at but yourself when you are wrong. That's what I do.

 

[Ty_Webb]

So does Hillman have any value going forward? Is he now the Moreno handcuff? Or if Knowsho gets hurt (which is what, a 50/50 chance) will the Broncos get someone off the street.

 

[jim k]

Re: Hillman value. Does anyone know which back was in when Manning was concussed?

 

[moleculo]

Re: Hillman value. Does anyone know which back was in when Manning was concussed?

first of all, Manning wasn't concussed. Second of all, Moreno had a carry just a few plays prior, so I would assume Moreno.

 

[jim k]

Re: concussed and having a concussion are different things. Hth.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

The main calls I remember from Cecil Lammey recently have been Hillman and Jeremiah Johnson, but admittedly I don't see or hear much of his stuff.

What were some good calls to balance this out?

 

[Insein]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff.

Did Moreno not get first team carries all week? Was Hillman getting all the work in practice? How could everyone's rankings have Hillman consistently in the 20-30 range while Moreno was 40-70? There was a massive miscommunication somewhere. We as fantasy owners rely on the info we're presented and for I'd say 95% of the time, the info is pretty accurate. I'm just confused as to where the breakdown was on this one.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Not sure why people are jumping on Cecil. I enjoy his 2 cents on Broncos practice reports. At the end of the day we all have 2 eyes to see things for ourselves. I had little reservation throwing $1 for Moreno last week (and watching Hillman go for nearly 80% of FAAB in one league)

I've seen all Hillman's regular season carries and was left really questioning what he offers in the tackles. I'd really question what others have seen him offer in that regard. I've seen several very nice off tackles runs.

If the Broncos had no plan with Moreno....he'd have been dumped many weeks ago via trade/cut. I personally think he's the unquestioned best RB in this group to handle the majority of the work (and didn't see any real reason to completely overhaul their RB rotation in the process). And never underestimate fresh legs either.

If there was one thing that surprised me it was the complete lack of work Hillman saw this week. I'd be even more surprised if this became a trend. He is a solid CoP back right now -- I just happen to think that's what he is (at this point of his career)

 

[Insein]

Not sure why people are jumping on Cecil. I enjoy his 2 cents on Broncos practice reports. At the end of the day we all have 2 eyes to see things for ourselves. I had little reservation throwing $1 for Moreno last week (and watching Hillman go for nearly 80% of FAAB in one league)

I've seen all Hillman's regular season carries and was left really questioning what he offers in the tackles. I'd really question what others have seen him offer in that regard. I've seen several very nice off tackles runs.

If the Broncos had no plan with Moreno....he'd have been dumped many weeks ago via trade/cut. I personally think he's the unquestioned best RB in this group to handle the majority of the work (and didn't see any real reason to completely overhaul their RB rotation in the process). And never underestimate fresh legs either.

If there was one thing that surprised me it was the complete lack of work Hillman saw this week. I'd be even more surprised if this became a trend. He is a solid CoP back right now -- I just happen to think that's what he is (at this point of his career)

See this is what I'm talking about. If this is true, how can a beat writer or any kind of sports reporter see a guy get no work with the first team in practice and somehow declare him the starter? Local reporters dropped the ball here.

 

[Sea Duck]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this?

Because Fox never actually said Moreno would "take over McGahee's role". He just made the vague statement "Knowshon instead of Willis", and most people just assumed that he was talking about the roster spot, not the role.Besides, Fox also said he was committed to RBBC and that "all three of them have played, and that won't change".

 

[renesauz]

Not sure why people are jumping on Cecil. I enjoy his 2 cents on Broncos practice reports. At the end of the day we all have 2 eyes to see things for ourselves. I had little reservation throwing $1 for Moreno last week (and watching Hillman go for nearly 80% of FAAB in one league)

I've seen all Hillman's regular season carries and was left really questioning what he offers in the tackles. I'd really question what others have seen him offer in that regard. I've seen several very nice off tackles runs.

Said this very thing a couple weeks ago (that I didn't see Hillman as a bellcow RB)...and was blasted by Lammey and others convinced he's the second coming.

 

[Ty_Webb]

Here is what Lammey said about Hillman on twitter today. ‏@cecillammey "John Fox says he has utmost confidence in Hillman, more game reps and he'll get better each week #broncos" and "@cecillammey "As I noted earlier this wk, when I talked to Moreno on MON he was more focused/mature than I'd ever seen/heard him #broncos paid off 4 him"

 

[identikit]

The main calls I remember from Cecil Lammey recently have been Hillman and Jeremiah Johnson, but admittedly I don't see or hear much of his stuff.What were some good calls to balance this out?

Lorenzo Booker was another hyped RB IIRC.

 

[moleculo]

All of Hillman's plays vs KC broken down

 

[onehung]

Hopping off this train to no where for a second go around of Rashard freaking Jennings. Running back roulette sucks

 

[RJS113]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff. .

Go to Broncos.com and listen to the press conference when Fox said this. He basically said, "It's always been a 3 man committee with Willis, Hillman, and Ball. It will still be a 3 man committee, just with Moreno in there instead of Willis". All he said was the Moreno will be in that 3 man committee instead of McGahee, but not that Moreno would be taking McGahee's starting role.

 

[rickyg]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff. .

Go to Broncos.com and listen to the press conference when Fox said this. He basically said, "It's always been a 3 man committee with Willis, Hillman, and Ball. It will still be a 3 man committee, just with Moreno in there instead of Willis". All he said was the Moreno will be in that 3 man committee instead of McGahee, but not that Moreno would be taking McGahee's starting role.

But he also did not say it would be hillman. That was just prognostication I the parts of hopeful hillman fantasy owners. If I were a hillman owner and I had heard 1 hour prior to game time that Moreno was the starter I would have pulled hillman out of my lineup immediately and wait and see how it pans out with him on my bench.

 

[Insein]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff. .

Go to Broncos.com and listen to the press conference when Fox said this. He basically said, "It's always been a 3 man committee with Willis, Hillman, and Ball. It will still be a 3 man committee, just with Moreno in there instead of Willis". All he said was the Moreno will be in that 3 man committee instead of McGahee, but not that Moreno would be taking McGahee's starting role.

But he also did not say it would be hillman. That was just prognostication I the parts of hopeful hillman fantasy owners. If I were a hillman owner and I had heard 1 hour prior to game time that Moreno was the starter I would have pulled hillman out of my lineup immediately and wait and see how it pans out with him on my bench.

When you have no other options and no time to pick up anybody, you're forced to run him out there and hope it is at least a committee. Hindsight is 20/20 there. As for hopeful Hillman owners, uh no. Try every Sports news outlet out there. There was one guy who rated Moreno over Hillman at all let alone by the ridiculous difference everyone had them at. Eisenberg for CBS. Don't know what he knew but he knew something. Why did everyone else not know that?

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff. .

Go to Broncos.com and listen to the press conference when Fox said this. He basically said, "It's always been a 3 man committee with Willis, Hillman, and Ball. It will still be a 3 man committee, just with Moreno in there instead of Willis". All he said was the Moreno will be in that 3 man committee instead of McGahee, but not that Moreno would be taking McGahee's starting role.

But he also did not say it would be hillman. That was just prognostication I the parts of hopeful hillman fantasy owners. If I were a hillman owner and I had heard 1 hour prior to game time that Moreno was the starter I would have pulled hillman out of my lineup immediately and wait and see how it pans out with him on my bench.

When you have no other options and no time to pick up anybody, you're forced to run him out there and hope it is at least a committee. Hindsight is 20/20 there. As for hopeful Hillman owners, uh no. Try every Sports news outlet out there. There was one guy who rated Moreno over Hillman at all let alone by the ridiculous difference everyone had them at. Eisenberg for CBS. Don't know what he knew but he knew something. Why did everyone else not know that?

Because he probably looked at it from the mindset 'If the Broncos kept Moreno on the roster this long, they had a plan for him'. They could have easily dealt him for a late round pick.And he probably saw Hillman's shown little between the tackles to date. And Ball's a special teamer and nothing more.Moreno served no role on the team with a healthy McGahee. And they decided not to keep 4 RB's active each week.

 

[habsfan]

I have nothing to add except to reiterate my earlier point. This is someone who is presumably compensated to follow this team and evidently he was completely out of touch with what was actually going on.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I sift through lots of them here every day but in my mind, when you monetize your opinion, it's reasonable to hold that opinion to a higher standard. Presumably the reason you are able to monetize your opinion in the first place is either by establishing an accurate track record or by having inside information. Had Hillman got the featured role and fell flat on his face, fine. As it turned out he got three carries. The FBG staffer who follows this team and hyped Hillman has gone missing and one group of members is telling another group of members that they were stupid to listen to him in the first place. Really?

If you're not willing to acknowledge your misses then don't charge for your hits.

 

[ShaHBucks]

I added Moreno a week ago for a cheap gamble. I don't have priority in my big money leagues, this was a huge week to get a rb like Bryce Brown and I just felt left out. I figured Ball isn't much from what I seen last year and Hillman, thought talented, has some red flags. It worked out for me and 2% of ESPN fantasy players but I can't say grabbing Hillman wasn't the right play. I didn't plug Moreno into the lineup until he was announced the starter, It was a wait and see thing for me.

 

[ShaHBucks]

Anybody killing Cecil should also rip him for the McGahee call last year

I understand Moreno isn't a fan favorite but Cecil could have made this call if he was a little open minded. I listened to the post game show just to hear what he will say and it's the same "he trips over his feet." with all that said Moreno might be a letdown this week vs TB

 

[ShaHBucks]

Anybody killing Cecil should also rip him for the McGahee call last year

I understand Moreno isn't a fan favorite but Cecil could have made this call if he was a little open minded. I listened to the post game show just to hear what he will say and it's the same "he trips over his feet." with all that said Moreno might be a letdown this week vs TB

 

[Insein]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff. .

Go to Broncos.com and listen to the press conference when Fox said this. He basically said, "It's always been a 3 man committee with Willis, Hillman, and Ball. It will still be a 3 man committee, just with Moreno in there instead of Willis". All he said was the Moreno will be in that 3 man committee instead of McGahee, but not that Moreno would be taking McGahee's starting role.

But he also did not say it would be hillman. That was just prognostication I the parts of hopeful hillman fantasy owners. If I were a hillman owner and I had heard 1 hour prior to game time that Moreno was the starter I would have pulled hillman out of my lineup immediately and wait and see how it pans out with him on my bench.

When you have no other options and no time to pick up anybody, you're forced to run him out there and hope it is at least a committee. Hindsight is 20/20 there. As for hopeful Hillman owners, uh no. Try every Sports news outlet out there. There was one guy who rated Moreno over Hillman at all let alone by the ridiculous difference everyone had them at. Eisenberg for CBS. Don't know what he knew but he knew something. Why did everyone else not know that?

Because he probably looked at it from the mindset 'If the Broncos kept Moreno on the roster this long, they had a plan for him'. They could have easily dealt him for a late round pick.And he probably saw Hillman's shown little between the tackles to date. And Ball's a special teamer and nothing more.Moreno served no role on the team with a healthy McGahee. And they decided not to keep 4 RB's active each week.

Doesn't answer the question of why NO ONE ELSE picked up on that unlikely scenario.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Re: concussed and having a concussion are different things. Hth.

OK

To answer your question from post #218, Cecil Lammey tweeted during the game that both sacks came with Moreno on the field (while he was noting Hillman made a nice blitz pickup).

Then again, the snap counts were 55-7 in favor of Moreno, so not sure what his point was...

 

[RJS113]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff. .

Go to Broncos.com and listen to the press conference when Fox said this. He basically said, "It's always been a 3 man committee with Willis, Hillman, and Ball. It will still be a 3 man committee, just with Moreno in there instead of Willis". All he said was the Moreno will be in that 3 man committee instead of McGahee, but not that Moreno would be taking McGahee's starting role.

But he also did not say it would be hillman. That was just prognostication I the parts of hopeful hillman fantasy owners. If I were a hillman owner and I had heard 1 hour prior to game time that Moreno was the starter I would have pulled hillman out of my lineup immediately and wait and see how it pans out with him on my bench.

When you have no other options and no time to pick up anybody, you're forced to run him out there and hope it is at least a committee. Hindsight is 20/20 there. As for hopeful Hillman owners, uh no. Try every Sports news outlet out there. There was one guy who rated Moreno over Hillman at all let alone by the ridiculous difference everyone had them at. Eisenberg for CBS. Don't know what he knew but he knew something. Why did everyone else not know that?

Because he probably looked at it from the mindset 'If the Broncos kept Moreno on the roster this long, they had a plan for him'. They could have easily dealt him for a late round pick.And he probably saw Hillman's shown little between the tackles to date. And Ball's a special teamer and nothing more.Moreno served no role on the team with a healthy McGahee. And they decided not to keep 4 RB's active each week.

Doesn't answer the question of why NO ONE ELSE picked up on that unlikely scenario.

I claimed him off waivers on Wednesday, and I'm sure others did too. He was the starter until he got hurt last year, and began this year as McGahees backup. While inconsistent, he's a talented player that was taken in the first round just a few years ago. He's been inactive because he doesn't play special teams, not because Ball and Hillman became better running backs than him. Why didn't YOU pick up on that?

 

[habsfan]

Here's what I don't get. If Fox has a quote like this stating that Moreno will take over McGahee's role, why does no one cover that? By no one, I don't mean fantasy experts. I mean the beat writers for the Denver Post, ESPN, CBS, Foxsports, everyone basically had Hillman as the presumed guy for the whole week. How could EVERYONE miss on this? This isn't just something that was a "hey you guys should know better." This was a complete whiff. .

Go to Broncos.com and listen to the press conference when Fox said this. He basically said, "It's always been a 3 man committee with Willis, Hillman, and Ball. It will still be a 3 man committee, just with Moreno in there instead of Willis". All he said was the Moreno will be in that 3 man committee instead of McGahee, but not that Moreno would be taking McGahee's starting role.

But he also did not say it would be hillman. That was just prognostication I the parts of hopeful hillman fantasy owners. If I were a hillman owner and I had heard 1 hour prior to game time that Moreno was the starter I would have pulled hillman out of my lineup immediately and wait and see how it pans out with him on my bench.

When you have no other options and no time to pick up anybody, you're forced to run him out there and hope it is at least a committee. Hindsight is 20/20 there. As for hopeful Hillman owners, uh no. Try every Sports news outlet out there. There was one guy who rated Moreno over Hillman at all let alone by the ridiculous difference everyone had them at. Eisenberg for CBS. Don't know what he knew but he knew something. Why did everyone else not know that?

Because he probably looked at it from the mindset 'If the Broncos kept Moreno on the roster this long, they had a plan for him'. They could have easily dealt him for a late round pick.And he probably saw Hillman's shown little between the tackles to date. And Ball's a special teamer and nothing more.Moreno served no role on the team with a healthy McGahee. And they decided not to keep 4 RB's active each week.

Doesn't answer the question of why NO ONE ELSE picked up on that unlikely scenario.

I claimed him off waivers on Wednesday, and I'm sure others did too. He was the starter until he got hurt last year, and began this year as McGahees backup. While inconsistent, he's a talented player that was taken in the first round just a few years ago. He's been inactive because he doesn't play special teams, not because Ball and Hillman became better running backs than him. Why didn't YOU pick up on that?

I'm sure there are a number of people in this thread voicing displeasure over the situation who actually DIDN'T get burned by Hillman this week and DO think for themselves (I happen to be one of them). Your answer sidesteps the question. We're not looking for a reverse-engineered rationale for why Moreno was the play all along. I'm interested to know how people who follow this team really closely could be so out of tune with it.

 

[pantagrapher]

Guys. This is the week.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

John Elway was on the RE Podcast last week and said he expected Moreno to have a 'big role' in this offense. The problem here is that most people on this forum just want to assume, with minimal research, that the first thing they hear, which in this case was that Hillman had an expanding role and was the backup to Willis, is fact.

Me, I'm out here, reading as many articles as possible, listening to podcasts, participating in forum and message board discussions, polling hometown fans, reaching out to my contacts to hear what they think about their teams and just in general really pounding the pavement and cultivating my own opinion on situations like this. Everyone would do well to follow my example and STOP BEING LAZY!

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Everyone would do well to follow my example and STOP BEING LAZY!

 

[Insein]

Doesn't answer the question of why NO ONE ELSE picked up on that unlikely scenario.

I claimed him off waivers on Wednesday, and I'm sure others did too. He was the starter until he got hurt last year, and began this year as McGahees backup. While inconsistent, he's a talented player that was taken in the first round just a few years ago. He's been inactive because he doesn't play special teams, not because Ball and Hillman became better running backs than him. Why didn't YOU pick up on that?

I'm sure there are a number of people in this thread voicing displeasure over the situation who actually DIDN'T get burned by Hillman this week and DO think for themselves (I happen to be one of them). Your answer sidesteps the question. We're not looking for a reverse-engineered rationale for why Moreno was the play all along. I'm interested to know how people who follow this team really closely could be so out of tune with it.

This is what I'm trying to get at. It's very convenient for people to come in here on Tuesday and say "I knew Moreno was going to be a beast all along." That's just individual people that happened to make a good guess at the situation. What happened to all the people in the know here? The beat writers? The sports reporters? The people that follow the team closely? The Fantasy experts that do the rankings each week? They all (save for 1) had Hillman ranked in the 20-30 while Moreno was 40-70. I don't live in Denver. I don't follow the team as I would the Eagles. I can't go by anything other than what I'm told on rotoworld, ESPN, CBS, yahoo, Foxsports, Denver Post, AP, FBG, etc. So when they ALL are saying Hillman is probably the play without anyone saying Moreno is a likely option till an hour before kickoff, I go with that. The think for yourself excuse doesn't work here. I know I'm complaining about this a lot because had I known this in time, I'd have grabbed moreno (as no one else did in either of my leagues) and would have won my game. It still doesn't answer the question of how everyone just completely missed on this one.

 

[habsfan]

Everyone would do well to follow my example and STOP BEING LAZY!

I realize that no analogy is perfect but this is akin to stockbrokers. Stockbrokers are paid (more or less) to do research on behalf of their clients and make recommendations. If your stockbroker was as wrong on an investment call as experts were on this one, would you accept the response that you should stop being lazy? Some people pick their own stocks and some people solicit the advice of experts. Either approach is fine but if you choose the latter, you probably don't appreciate being reprimanded when you question the value of the expert's advice.Look I'm really not worked up about this but telling people not to be lazy is in fact being lazy. It's telling "stockbrokers" in this industry (one where people earn a living as experts) that they can "charge" for their advice, get kudos for the good advice and shrug their shoulders without consequence for the bad advice. That's a pretty good gig if you can get it I guess...

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Everyone would do well to follow my example and STOP BEING LAZY!

I realize that no analogy is perfect but this is akin to stockbrokers. Stockbrokers are paid (more or less) to do research on behalf of their clients and make recommendations. If your stockbroker was as wrong on an investment call as experts were on this one, would you accept the response that you should stop being lazy? Some people pick their own stocks and some people solicit the advice of experts. Either approach is fine but if you choose the latter, you probably don't appreciate being reprimanded when you question the value of the expert's advice.Look I'm really not worked up about this but telling people not to be lazy is in fact being lazy. It's telling "stockbrokers" in this industry (one where people earn a living as experts) that they can "charge" for their advice, get kudos for the good advice and shrug their shoulders without consequence for the bad advice. That's a pretty good gig if you can get it I guess...

dude my thumbs up to that guy was in jest.Seriously though If you read the knowshon moreno thread, and paid attention on game day, HC Fox said Knowhson was taking Mcgahee's place. hillman was already rostered in most of my leagues. So I snagged Knowshon as specualtion.that being said I still like Hillman long term in dynasties. It just takes a guy like Fox awhile to hand over the reigns

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

buncha haters on this forum. Lazy is as lazy does i suppose. 3 leagues, 3 playoff births for coachbobby..havent missed a postseason since '07. Must be doing something right!

 

[Insein]

Everyone would do well to follow my example and STOP BEING LAZY!

I realize that no analogy is perfect but this is akin to stockbrokers. Stockbrokers are paid (more or less) to do research on behalf of their clients and make recommendations. If your stockbroker was as wrong on an investment call as experts were on this one, would you accept the response that you should stop being lazy? Some people pick their own stocks and some people solicit the advice of experts. Either approach is fine but if you choose the latter, you probably don't appreciate being reprimanded when you question the value of the expert's advice.Look I'm really not worked up about this but telling people not to be lazy is in fact being lazy. It's telling "stockbrokers" in this industry (one where people earn a living as experts) that they can "charge" for their advice, get kudos for the good advice and shrug their shoulders without consequence for the bad advice. That's a pretty good gig if you can get it I guess...

That's a good analogy.

 

[PhantomJB]

Insein and Habsfan, you guys are 100% correct in terms of looking to hold the experts/beat-writers/advisors accountable. However, none of them is going to come clean since they get paid to prognosticate and there is no commercial upside in admitting mistakes.

There were a lot of available facts to suggest Hillman was the play (early round choice, current backup, history of Moreno ineptitude, etc.). This was compounded by one or two so-called "experts" falling in love with Hillman and creating a cacophony that drowned out any real news about Moreno. Since most of the experts create the news, if they were drinking the Kool-aid then just by sheer volume of content it was hard to find anything about Moreno until right before kickoff. By then it was like Pearl Harbor.

Kudos to the guys who claimed to have done all the due diligence and were able to sift through the Hillman hype and make the contrarian decision on Moreno. Some of them just got lucky and are just claiming after-the-fact to be omniscient and now believe they have the moral high ground to gloat to everyone else. Whatever. But some are just smart and knowledgable and bold enough to buck the trend. Hats off to them.

Could have gone either way based on the available facts at the time since Fox never really committed to anyone. Doesn't mean those that chose wrong are lazy or can't think for themselves.

P.s. As pointed out just above, the analogy to financial advice is a good one.

 

[Insein]

Insein and Habsfan, you guys are 100% correct in terms of looking to hold the experts/beat-writers/advisors accountable. However, none of them is going to come clean since they get paid to prognosticate and there is no commercial upside in admitting mistakes. There were a lot of available facts to suggest Hillman was the play (early round choice, current backup, history of Moreno ineptitude, etc.). This was compounded by one or two so-called "experts" falling in love with Hillman and creating a cacophony that drowned out any real news about Moreno. Since most of the experts create the news, if they were drinking the Kool-aid then just by sheer volume of content it was hard to find anything about Moreno until right before kickoff. By then it was like Pearl Harbor.Kudos to the guys who claimed to have done all the due diligence and were able to sift through the Hillman hype and make the contrarian decision on Moreno. Some of them just got lucky and are just claiming after-the-fact to be omniscient and now believe they have the moral high ground to gloat to everyone else. Whatever. But some are just smart and knowledgable and bold enough to buck the trend. Hats off to them. Could have gone either way based on the available facts at the time since Fox never really committed to anyone. Doesn't mean those that chose wrong are lazy or can't think for themselves.P.s. As pointed out just above, the analogy to financial advice is a good one.

That sums up my thoughts better than I could.Ok I'm done now.