Ron Swanson
Footballguy
It doesn't seem likely that Russia is able to move troops around precisely enough to support this.
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*** Official Russia vs. Ukraine Discussion - Invasion has begun *** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Jayrod
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Putin has revived the gulag archipelago (dismantled after Stalin) in recent years, those guys families will be moved to Siberia
coopersdad
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
It was bad enough the Russians drove armored vehicles through the Red Forest (the off-limits Chernobyl exclusion zone.)
Drone footage reveals they also dug trenches & foxholes.
With no protective clothing.
We’ll probably never know how many of them will die from exposure, but at least 75 soldiers have been evacuated with radiation sickness.
Drone footage reveals they also dug trenches & foxholes.
With no protective clothing.
We’ll probably never know how many of them will die from exposure, but at least 75 soldiers have been evacuated with radiation sickness.
I feel like we can officially call the Russian military stupid at this point.It was bad enough the Russians drove armored vehicles through the Red Forest (the off-limits Chernobyl exclusion zone.)
Drone footage reveals they also dug trenches & foxholes.
With no protective clothing.
We’ll probably never know how many of them will die from exposure, but at least 75 soldiers have been evacuated with radiation sickness.
The Kerminator
Footballguy
They are playing 3-D chess while the rest of the world is playing checkers. Once they achieve their superpowers from the radiation, it's is goodnight Irene, goodnight Ukraine, goodnight world.
JaxBill
Footballguy
not sure about those rumors but Ukraine will do whatever it takes to hunt this guy down and not to take him to trial.
@revishvilig: Reportedly, one of the brigades that tortured, raped and killed people in #Bucha - unit 51460 from the village of Knyaze-Volkonskoye, Khabarovsk Krai, #Russia. Commander of the unit is Lt Colonel Omurbekov Azatbek Asanbekovich. #BuchaMassacre https://twitter.com/revishvilig/status/1510715609255919622/photo/1
JaxBill
Footballguy
@IAPonomarenko: My latest:
“The Battle of Kyiv may be over, but what comes next is the even more decisive and difficult Battle of Donbas. This fight is likely to define the war’s outcome.”
https://kyivindependent.com/politics/new-phase-in-war-opens-up-as-ukraine-defeats-russia-in-battle-of-kyiv/
“The Battle of Kyiv may be over, but what comes next is the even more decisive and difficult Battle of Donbas. This fight is likely to define the war’s outcome.”
https://kyivindependent.com/politics/new-phase-in-war-opens-up-as-ukraine-defeats-russia-in-battle-of-kyiv/
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
4,684 Russian war crimes under investigation
Not a typo
Not a typo
JaxBill
Footballguy
That’s not going to be a pretty sight, and I’m very sad about it. Too bad Putin(probably) won’t get what he deserves.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Some people didn’t have a clue what even happened there.It was bad enough the Russians drove armored vehicles through the Red Forest (the off-limits Chernobyl exclusion zone.)
Drone footage reveals they also dug trenches & foxholes.
With no protective clothing.
We’ll probably never know how many of them will die from exposure, but at least 75 soldiers have been evacuated with radiation sickness.
This is just insane. All the progress that Russia had made in the 90s has seemingly been seriously eroded much further than anyone knew over the last 10 years and then Putin just burned it all to the ground with this war.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Can we just do single combat between Klitschko and Putin to end it?
The Kerminator
Footballguy
What does he deserve? I can't think of anything bad enough for him. Even hell is too good for him.
I’ll let the Almighty be in charge of anything after he dies, but that meeting should definitely be arranged as soon as possible.
Saw on Yahoo that Russia is claiming that the sanctions will backfire on “poorer regions.” While it’s a distinct possibility, I feel that the rest of the world can make something work. The blame still falls entirely on Russia, though. All they had to do was not what they’ve been doing for the past several weeks, and we could have gone in just mutually distrusting each other, but now Putin is going to starve his own people.
beer 30
Footballguy
I admittedly don’t know a lot about Russian history, but my point is that this is his fault. Too bad his people aren’t going to see it that way.
beer 30
Footballguy
Stalin perfected it, every leader since has used it to quell the masses to some degree or another. The Russian people never know why, the aren't privy to policy. They do what they are told and deal with the hardship. Kinda what they do, it's crazy but when you think about it, just living in Russia is an exercise in survival. Add in a dictatorial regime and it's not hard to see large scale hardships for them going forward for a while.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
The atrocities really make so little sense to me. Ukraine and Russia are bound together by history and religion.
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
beer 30
Footballguy
I mentioned earlier in the thread when we were discussing possible outcomes that I thought Russia was going to go scorched earth. This is all part of Putin's plan to sow fear and terror as they slowly draw back. They are going to stop in the Donbas region dig in. They don't really have a problem there as most in that area are ok being under Russian rule.
You do the stuff they are doing now to make the Ukrainian's think twice about prolonging the war for an area that doesn't want to be a part of Ukraine to begin with. "This is what will happen to your people as long as you resist" kinda stuff. My $.02 again.
This is Plan B. Had they overrun Ukraine as they thought they would, would be a different story. But they poked the bear in the eye...over and over and over again. This is Putin's way of taking out his frustration on getting his ### beat and ruining Russia on the world stage. If anything, I think it will get worse assuming they didn't burn all the evidence already.
From AP(via Yahoo): Russia’s failure to take Kyiv is an all-timer
As bad as the Russians have been treating Ukrainian people, it could have been so much worse, and I am not going to feel bad for Russia as it descends to the third world.
As bad as the Russians have been treating Ukrainian people, it could have been so much worse, and I am not going to feel bad for Russia as it descends to the third world.
It was bad enough the Russians drove armored vehicles through the Red Forest (the off-limits Chernobyl exclusion zone.)
Drone footage reveals they also dug trenches & foxholes.
With no protective clothing.
We’ll probably never know how many of them will die from exposure, but at least 75 soldiers have been evacuated with radiation sickness.
https://twitter.com/osinti1/status/1511676994374750209?s=21
Jayrod
Footballguy
Seems like the older folks are consuming the state TV and believe it, but the younger are online and getting a better view of the whole picture.
It would be pretty difficult to lock down all sources of international media in the whole country (like China does) as connected to Europe as Russia has been for the last 30 years.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Bleeding Russia out economically must continue until Putin is removed from control of Russia. Putin has the country in a tight grip and changes aren’t likely for years. It is unfortunate for the Russian people but it is even less fair that their leader is destroying millions of innocent lives in Ukraine.
Hawks64
Footballguy
I honestly don't think many of them are speaking truthfully. Putin absolutely would try and identify anyone speaking out against him or the state and disappear them, they know this and puppet what the state is saying for the most part. Much safer for them.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
There’s another, similar clip from Moscow - maybe even Red Square - and uniformed officers would walk people off who were even speaking to television media. Including people who were pro-Putin. Looks like these were at least being conducted at a somewhat more discreet location.
The one said “I have my opinions but I’m not ready to share them.” Hear that type of response a lot - I know I’m being watched, I know we can’t say what we want to say.
Many websites are blocked, radio/tv signals jammed. But those who want the truth are finding ways to get news from the west. The older ones who remember USSR era and see what Vlad is doing to reinstate that level of fear are afraid. It’s probably just easier to accept what the state media tells you bc they feel powerless.
For all the flaws, thank God we live in a nation of laws where free speech is tolerated.
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beer 30
Footballguy
Most of the older folks don't know any different. Up until about 25-30 years ago, the populace never got outside information that wasn't exactly what the administration wanted them to hear or see. Use Chernobyl as an example, arguably the worst nuclear disaster in human history and the story was squashed within Russia for weeks. We have Russian troops irradiating themselves in the Red Forest because they don't know the history of the area or have been told to disregard it.
I thought Russia was exploring a system similar to China where they disconnect from the innernets and provide their own service? If so, now would probably be a good time to pull the plug for Vlad but given what we've seen from their military, I have zero confidence it would work as designed.
Yea, then there's this also.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
“The battle for Donbas” is underway, and it “has not reached its maximum scale," Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Thursday.
“Every day, the heaviest fighting takes place in that part of Ukraine and more is to come, unfortunately,” Kuleba said at a press conference in Brussels.
“The battle for Donbas will remind you of the Second World War, with large operations, maneuvers, involvement of thousands of tanks, armored vehicles, planes, artillery. This will not be a local operation based on what we see in Russia's preparations,” he said.
“Russia has its plan, we have ours, and the battlefield will decide the outcome,” Kuleba said.
“Every day, the heaviest fighting takes place in that part of Ukraine and more is to come, unfortunately,” Kuleba said at a press conference in Brussels.
“The battle for Donbas will remind you of the Second World War, with large operations, maneuvers, involvement of thousands of tanks, armored vehicles, planes, artillery. This will not be a local operation based on what we see in Russia's preparations,” he said.
“Russia has its plan, we have ours, and the battlefield will decide the outcome,” Kuleba said.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Guy Verhofstadt (MEP Belgium) made an amazing speech to the EU Parliament yesterday criticizing incremental sanctions
worth a listen - 2:09
speech
Your strategy of incremental sanctions doesn’t work. Cannot work…
That’s why 212 members of Parliament demand a special #EUCO meeting to decide on full sanctions immediately!
worth a listen - 2:09
speech
Your strategy of incremental sanctions doesn’t work. Cannot work…
That’s why 212 members of Parliament demand a special #EUCO meeting to decide on full sanctions immediately!
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Pink Floyd
'Hey Hey Rise Up', released in support of the people of Ukraine, sees David Gilmour and Nick Mason joined by long time Pink Floyd bass player Guy Pratt and Nitin Sawhney on keyboards, all accompanying an extraordinary vocal by Andriy Khlyvnyuk of Ukrainian band Boombox. All proceeds go to Ukrainian Humanitarian Relief. The track uses Andriy’s vocals taken from his Instagram post of him in Kyiv’s Sofiyskaya Square singing ‘Oh, The Red Viburnum In The Meadow’, a rousing Ukrainian folk protest song written during the first world war. The title of the Pink Floyd track is taken from the last line of the song which translates as ‘Hey, hey, rise up and rejoice’. The video for ‘Hey Hey Rise Up' was filmed by acclaimed director Mat Whitecross and shot on the same day as the track was recorded, with Andriy singing on the screen while the band played. Gilmour, who has a Ukrainian daughter-in-law and grandchildren says: “We, like so many, have been feeling the fury and the frustration of this vile act of an independent, peaceful democratic country being invaded and having its people murdered by one of the world's major powers”.
'Hey Hey Rise Up', released in support of the people of Ukraine, sees David Gilmour and Nick Mason joined by long time Pink Floyd bass player Guy Pratt and Nitin Sawhney on keyboards, all accompanying an extraordinary vocal by Andriy Khlyvnyuk of Ukrainian band Boombox. All proceeds go to Ukrainian Humanitarian Relief. The track uses Andriy’s vocals taken from his Instagram post of him in Kyiv’s Sofiyskaya Square singing ‘Oh, The Red Viburnum In The Meadow’, a rousing Ukrainian folk protest song written during the first world war. The title of the Pink Floyd track is taken from the last line of the song which translates as ‘Hey, hey, rise up and rejoice’. The video for ‘Hey Hey Rise Up' was filmed by acclaimed director Mat Whitecross and shot on the same day as the track was recorded, with Andriy singing on the screen while the band played. Gilmour, who has a Ukrainian daughter-in-law and grandchildren says: “We, like so many, have been feeling the fury and the frustration of this vile act of an independent, peaceful democratic country being invaded and having its people murdered by one of the world's major powers”.
Orange&Blue
Footballguy
Come on, not here with it. We’ve actually kept the other thread in the political forum relatively sane, at least lately.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I can't decide if I should engage this thread. I know to stay out of the other forum. I am obsessed with this war. I am 60, retired, single, bored and working a part time security job on the China Lake naval base (started Feb. 27). I was born and raised on the base (18 years), and I have been back for the past 17 years (my home is three miles from the base's gate). I can tell you tensions and workloads on the base, according to friends who've spent careers here, have never ever been higher. I do not have any secret/inside information. That just doesn't happen so be dubious when you hear or read about cia or pentagon sources. Pfff, no. There is however a a ton of osint available to all in this era of transparancy.
I am sometimes depressed by this war. Once, exhausted emotionally from the onslaught of stories, I was moved to tears by an image of an 88 yr old Ukrainian woman with a home on the front, alone, scared and crying. F Russia. I'm happy to report I followed up and she has received assistance, been evacuated, and should be with her sons soon.
I have a dismal view of where this is heading. I hold a few opinions contrary to the thinking here. I often have a couple dozen related tabs open. Because I see a possibility of the world descending into madness, I seek stories from everywhere but UKR vs RUS. I get those without trying.
I am sometimes depressed by this war. Once, exhausted emotionally from the onslaught of stories, I was moved to tears by an image of an 88 yr old Ukrainian woman with a home on the front, alone, scared and crying. F Russia. I'm happy to report I followed up and she has received assistance, been evacuated, and should be with her sons soon.
I have a dismal view of where this is heading. I hold a few opinions contrary to the thinking here. I often have a couple dozen related tabs open. Because I see a possibility of the world descending into madness, I seek stories from everywhere but UKR vs RUS. I get those without trying.
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
I didn't mean to post that yet. Clumbsy fingers.
I know politics is forbidden here, but sometimes there is just no avoiding it. What's happening this weekend is one of those times. So understand I do not have left right leanings. I do not vote for a president. Just local issues. I've given up on both parties. I identify as a free market anarchist, I think. I have never posted in the politics forum and I have only read one thread there, ever. The one on this topic.
So I cannot help but point this out and I don't know what to make of it.
Biden delegation led by Pelosi headed to Taiwan
We haven't sent official visitors to Taiwan since Clinton sent Gingrich in 97. We're doing this now?
China threatens strong measures over this
There's dozens of much stronger and specific Chinese threats on twitter including threats to bomb Taiwan immediately.
So as I am typing this I discover... Pelosi got Covid on her travels and just canceled. Needs to quarantine. Well that got a big sigh of relief from me, but still. I apolgize for crossing the political line here. If it causes stupid reactions, ban me. It seemed an incredibly important story before the cancelation.
I know politics is forbidden here, but sometimes there is just no avoiding it. What's happening this weekend is one of those times. So understand I do not have left right leanings. I do not vote for a president. Just local issues. I've given up on both parties. I identify as a free market anarchist, I think. I have never posted in the politics forum and I have only read one thread there, ever. The one on this topic.
So I cannot help but point this out and I don't know what to make of it.
Biden delegation led by Pelosi headed to Taiwan
We haven't sent official visitors to Taiwan since Clinton sent Gingrich in 97. We're doing this now?
China threatens strong measures over this
There's dozens of much stronger and specific Chinese threats on twitter including threats to bomb Taiwan immediately.
So as I am typing this I discover... Pelosi got Covid on her travels and just canceled. Needs to quarantine. Well that got a big sigh of relief from me, but still. I apolgize for crossing the political line here. If it causes stupid reactions, ban me. It seemed an incredibly important story before the cancelation.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
This is the other huge story hapening this weekend. I wish we could cancel it too, but that's not happening. For days I have been seeing both UKR and RUS sending warnings to the Donbas for everyone to evacuate, pronto. Reportedly 100s of thousands have or are trying.... and... again....Leeroy Jenkins said:
With thousands fleeing Russia hits a train station killing 30 and injuring 100.
It's just mindboggling they don't stop this sick war crime.
eta - death toll 50 and climbing
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Chaos Commish
Footballguy
One of them is this idea the whole world opposes Putin/Russia. I've read it in both threads here and all media (mainstream, independent, and social) over and over again. I guess it comes from the initial UN vote to condemn Russia's invasion. We know China claims neutrality but let's be honest; an axis has formed between China, Russia and N Korea.
This is the full vote to boot Russia from the Human Rights Council.
Seems safe to assume most of those countries who voted no to THIS are in Russia's corner. Most not all. Worse though, many of those who abstained, like China are supporting Russia. It's nothing to see a quarter of the world's population standing with Russia, and I think a third too might be a bit conservative. India is split. The PM, Modi, is very cozy with Russia. Indian social media is virulently anti-US. India is also a member of QUAD, a Nato like agreement between Us, Oz, Japan and India. Africa is pro Russia (again based on hatred for the US), parts of Central and South America, Iran, Iraq, much of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Parts of Asia too. Those are some of our largest populations.
"The whole world" is not against Russia. It should be, but I wouldn't be surprised if an accurate poll was possible to find around 40% of the world is supporting Russia for one dumb reason or another.
JaxBill
Footballguy
well, not only that but most of the Euro countries "against" Russia have painted themselves in the corner of being reliant on Russian gas.
Eye opening genocide has been necessary for some countries to consider full sanctions.
I'd be interested in your response to Trent Telenko Irrational Regime thread. More and more I think the only way Putin is taken down is from the inside.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
The worrisome thing about Telenko's irrational regimes is the fervent and blind support they generate through propaganda. I read somewhere that Zelensky's Ukrainian approval rating is over 90% after being 30% pre-war, and tops in the world among heads of state. Putin and Jinping are 2nd and 3rd both now over 80%. This doesn't bode well for an inside job. Telenko notes:
Japan's irrational militants preferred to fight to the death despite Hirohito realizing he needed to surrender. Of course the difference now is the irrational regime(s) has 800 megaton radioactive gorillas in the room. Ever wonder what if Japan or Germany had nukes?
Noam Chomsky thinks we're approaching the most dangerous point in world history. He's as concerned about climate change as he is about nuclear devastation. Reading that a couple days ago to a retired weapons developer from China Lake (36 years in the department of electronic warfare) got me this response. "I don't care about climate change but Chomsky is a little off. We're not approaching it. This is the most dangerous moment in world history."
JaxBill
Footballguy
@DefenceHQ: The UK has announced further military aid for #Ukraine:
Over 800 more NLAW anti-tank missiles
More Javelin anti-tank systems
More Starstreak air defence systems
More equipment including helmets, armour and night vision goggles
More
http://ow.ly/jflX50IFpUs
Over 800 more NLAW anti-tank missiles More Javelin anti-tank systems More Starstreak air defence systems More equipment including helmets, armour and night vision gogglesMore
http://ow.ly/jflX50IFpUs
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Russia is doing a decent job using the fog of war to deny everything. It's all bs, but in a trial or tribunal, I think the case would get thrown out. Too many bad actors want to accept the lies.
here's an example from the story i linked above about the train station massacre...
Here's an image Russia claims is the missile that struck
They've traced the serial number to Ukraine missile inventory stock lists.
You want the UN to help? They are investigating Ukraine for war crimes.
This type of pushback can be found in story after story about the "reported" war crimes of Russia. Frustrating.
culdeus
Footballguy
I really don't get people sometimes. I suppose there is a lot of money in feeding straight bull#### to the masses. The same type of garbage mix of half truths and lies got people killed here during covid.
What purpose does any type of “false flag” operation, that is being thrown out there by what are likely Russian propaganda channels, serve Ukraine now? The missiles are of Soviet origin, of which Ukraine was under the rule of, and even if they were fired from “Ukrainian controlled territory,” that’s hardly a smoking gun. It should also be mentioned that identification that is painted on is also extremely easy to falsify, Russia is notorious for subpar record keeping and obvious propaganda attempts, and there is no benefit to Ukraine actually being the culprit here. Logically speaking, this was in all likelihood a Russian attack, after which their propaganda channels tried painting this as a false flag operation.
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