Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
***OFFICIAL*** San Diego (?) Chargers 2016 Offseason Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Tau837
- Start date
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
CBS Sports on Max Tuerk:
PLAYER OVERVIEW
In many ways, Tuerk is likely to remind scouts of Cameron Erving, the former Florida State defensive tackle-turned left tackle-turned center-turned first-round pick of the Cleveland Browns.
Like Erving, Tuerk is blessed with a combination of long arms, a trim waste and light feet that every offensive line coach hopes to find in a prospect. Like Erving, Tuerk has also proven quite versatile, spreading his 38 career starts between center (18 starts), left guard (14 starts), left tackle (five) and right tackle (one). Also like Erving, Tuerk has played his best inside at center, where in 2014 the junior was recognized as USC's Offensive Lineman of the Year and earned First Team All-Pac-12 honors.
Tuerk's track to a top 50 selection seemed secure until he suffered a torn ACL October 10 against Washington, abruptly ending his senior season. If NFL teams are convinced that he'll be ready in time for training camp next season, Tuerk could prove quite a bargain.
STRENGTHS WEAKNESSES
STRENGTHS: Though Tuerk looks more like a left tackle (or even a tight end) with his relatively svelte and athletic frame, he holds up incredibly well in the pit due to a combination of balance and leverage. He plays with excellent knee bend and flexibility, allowing him to absorb bull rushes by stouter defensive tackles.
His initial quickness and agility is rare among centers. Prior to the knee injury, Tuerk was frequently asked to pull and attack defenders at the second level. Tuerk has flexible joints to handle changing directions smoothly and attacks linebackers with a strong pop on contact.
WEAKNESSES: Suffered a torn ACL on Oct. 10 and must prove that he has overcome the injury. Has a relatively spindly frame and may struggled with the physicality in the close quarters of the NFL. Relies more on his agility and technique to turn and seal defenders, rather than simply drive opponents off the ball.
One area in which scouts may find pause with Tuerk is the peculiar way in which he snaps the ball, with the nose pointing down rather than up as most centers hold it. The method may not draw the ire of offensive line coaches too much if Tuerk shows improved accuracy during pre-draft workouts.
IN OUR VIEW: Tuerk's unique frame and experience makes a potential wildcard of this year's talented center class with some clubs projecting him back at guard or even tackle. He played his best at center and comes with experience in a pro-style offense, which should make his transition to the NFL a relatively seamless one, assuming he's fully recovered from the knee injury. Tuerk's athleticism fits best in a zone-blocking scheme.
Compares To: Max Unger, New Orleans Saints: Like the 6-5, 309-pound Unger, Tuerk has a relatively lean, athletic build which leaves him vulnerable to shorter, more powerful run-stuffers. He's smart, athletic and tough, however, projecting as a future starter.
--Rob Rang (2/4/16)
PLAYER OVERVIEW
In many ways, Tuerk is likely to remind scouts of Cameron Erving, the former Florida State defensive tackle-turned left tackle-turned center-turned first-round pick of the Cleveland Browns.
Like Erving, Tuerk is blessed with a combination of long arms, a trim waste and light feet that every offensive line coach hopes to find in a prospect. Like Erving, Tuerk has also proven quite versatile, spreading his 38 career starts between center (18 starts), left guard (14 starts), left tackle (five) and right tackle (one). Also like Erving, Tuerk has played his best inside at center, where in 2014 the junior was recognized as USC's Offensive Lineman of the Year and earned First Team All-Pac-12 honors.
Tuerk's track to a top 50 selection seemed secure until he suffered a torn ACL October 10 against Washington, abruptly ending his senior season. If NFL teams are convinced that he'll be ready in time for training camp next season, Tuerk could prove quite a bargain.
STRENGTHS WEAKNESSES
STRENGTHS: Though Tuerk looks more like a left tackle (or even a tight end) with his relatively svelte and athletic frame, he holds up incredibly well in the pit due to a combination of balance and leverage. He plays with excellent knee bend and flexibility, allowing him to absorb bull rushes by stouter defensive tackles.
His initial quickness and agility is rare among centers. Prior to the knee injury, Tuerk was frequently asked to pull and attack defenders at the second level. Tuerk has flexible joints to handle changing directions smoothly and attacks linebackers with a strong pop on contact.
WEAKNESSES: Suffered a torn ACL on Oct. 10 and must prove that he has overcome the injury. Has a relatively spindly frame and may struggled with the physicality in the close quarters of the NFL. Relies more on his agility and technique to turn and seal defenders, rather than simply drive opponents off the ball.
One area in which scouts may find pause with Tuerk is the peculiar way in which he snaps the ball, with the nose pointing down rather than up as most centers hold it. The method may not draw the ire of offensive line coaches too much if Tuerk shows improved accuracy during pre-draft workouts.
IN OUR VIEW: Tuerk's unique frame and experience makes a potential wildcard of this year's talented center class with some clubs projecting him back at guard or even tackle. He played his best at center and comes with experience in a pro-style offense, which should make his transition to the NFL a relatively seamless one, assuming he's fully recovered from the knee injury. Tuerk's athleticism fits best in a zone-blocking scheme.
Compares To: Max Unger, New Orleans Saints: Like the 6-5, 309-pound Unger, Tuerk has a relatively lean, athletic build which leaves him vulnerable to shorter, more powerful run-stuffers. He's smart, athletic and tough, however, projecting as a future starter.
--Rob Rang (2/4/16)
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
... and Hunter Henry while I'm at it:
PLAYER OVERVIEW
Henry excelled as a junior in 2015 (13 starts), finishing second on the team with 51 catches for 739 yards and three touchdowns. Henry earned first-team All-SEC honors and was named the 2015 John Mackey Award winner (nation's top tight end). He decided to skip his senior season and enter the 2016 NFL Draft.
A four-star tight end recruit out of high school, Henry was rated as the No. 2 recruit in the state and chose Arkansas over Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Stanford and Vanderbilt.
He saw immediate playing time as a true freshman (seven starts) in 2013, recording 28 catches for 409 yards and four touchdowns, earning All-SEC Freshman honors.
Henry started 10 games as a sophomore in 2014 and finished with 37 receptions for 513 yards and two scores, earning Second Team All-SEC honors.
STRENGTHS WEAKNESSES
STRENGTHS: Adequate height and length for the position. Outstanding athlete for his size with speed to separate in his routes.
Fluid pass-catcher with flexible body control, easily adjusting to throws. Dangerous after the catch with his toughness and agility. Natural hands-catcher, tracking well in his pattern and high-pointing in contested situations. Tough finisher and rarely drops the ball.
High effort blocker with the hustle to get downfield, working through the whistle. Competitive and balanced at the linebacker level as a blocker. Knows where the sticks are and was a reliable third down target (93 of his 116 career catches resulted in a first down or touchdown). Experienced lining up inline and in the slot.
Athletic bloodlines: father (Mark) was a two-time All-Southwest offensive lineman at Arkansas (1988-91), but chose to enter the ministry instead of the NFL.
WEAKNESSES: Lacks ideal bulk and muscle tone for the position and is still growing into his body. Struggles to establish body position as a blocker and ends up going where the defender wants. Too easily overmatched at the point of attack, struggling to sustain or control blocks.
Grabby and wild in pass protection and has too many snaps on his film that will be penalized in the NFL. Only nine career touchdowns, wasn't used as consistent red-zone threat.
IN OUR VIEW: Henry was an ideal fit for the Razorbacks' multiple-tight end offense with pro-style looks that asked him to line up inline, wing and in the slot. Henry has reliable hands (didn't have a drop in 2015) with fluid body adjustments to catch the ball in stride and track the ball into his mitts. He is a competitive blocker, but too easily overpowered at the point of attack, leading to him getting beat or penalized.
Although he's not a reliable inline blocker at this point in his development, Henry has the best hands and route running athleticism of any tight end in this draft class, projecting as a Day Two "F" or joker tight end prospect.
--Dane Brugler (1/6/16)
PLAYER OVERVIEW
Henry excelled as a junior in 2015 (13 starts), finishing second on the team with 51 catches for 739 yards and three touchdowns. Henry earned first-team All-SEC honors and was named the 2015 John Mackey Award winner (nation's top tight end). He decided to skip his senior season and enter the 2016 NFL Draft.
A four-star tight end recruit out of high school, Henry was rated as the No. 2 recruit in the state and chose Arkansas over Alabama, Georgia, Oklahoma, Stanford and Vanderbilt.
He saw immediate playing time as a true freshman (seven starts) in 2013, recording 28 catches for 409 yards and four touchdowns, earning All-SEC Freshman honors.
Henry started 10 games as a sophomore in 2014 and finished with 37 receptions for 513 yards and two scores, earning Second Team All-SEC honors.
STRENGTHS WEAKNESSES
STRENGTHS: Adequate height and length for the position. Outstanding athlete for his size with speed to separate in his routes.
Fluid pass-catcher with flexible body control, easily adjusting to throws. Dangerous after the catch with his toughness and agility. Natural hands-catcher, tracking well in his pattern and high-pointing in contested situations. Tough finisher and rarely drops the ball.
High effort blocker with the hustle to get downfield, working through the whistle. Competitive and balanced at the linebacker level as a blocker. Knows where the sticks are and was a reliable third down target (93 of his 116 career catches resulted in a first down or touchdown). Experienced lining up inline and in the slot.
Athletic bloodlines: father (Mark) was a two-time All-Southwest offensive lineman at Arkansas (1988-91), but chose to enter the ministry instead of the NFL.
WEAKNESSES: Lacks ideal bulk and muscle tone for the position and is still growing into his body. Struggles to establish body position as a blocker and ends up going where the defender wants. Too easily overmatched at the point of attack, struggling to sustain or control blocks.
Grabby and wild in pass protection and has too many snaps on his film that will be penalized in the NFL. Only nine career touchdowns, wasn't used as consistent red-zone threat.
IN OUR VIEW: Henry was an ideal fit for the Razorbacks' multiple-tight end offense with pro-style looks that asked him to line up inline, wing and in the slot. Henry has reliable hands (didn't have a drop in 2015) with fluid body adjustments to catch the ball in stride and track the ball into his mitts. He is a competitive blocker, but too easily overpowered at the point of attack, leading to him getting beat or penalized.
Although he's not a reliable inline blocker at this point in his development, Henry has the best hands and route running athleticism of any tight end in this draft class, projecting as a Day Two "F" or joker tight end prospect.
--Dane Brugler (1/6/16)
Tau837
Footballguy
In 4 drafts, Telesco has now expended 29 picks to draft 25 players, and they break down like this:
The thing that stands out the most to me is DL. Only 3 drafted, and two of them were 5th round (165th pick) or later. Meanwhile, Telesco has only signed one free agent DL who looks like at least an average starter (Mebane). Bosa will certainly help this year, but the DL will still have very little quality depth and will remain the weakest unit on the team.
Looks like this year's team will have 9 starters from these 4 drafts: WR Allen, RB Gordon, RG Fluker, DE Bosa, OLB Attaochu, ILB Teo, ILB Perryman, CB Verrett, P Kaser. If Gordon plays better, Verrett can stay healthy, and the others at least carry over their play, this is a pretty good group. Not great -- no Pro Bowls yet -- but good potential to change that going forward.
Telesco really hasn't found any gems in the draft yet. Not counting Kaser, so far none of the players taken after the third round have become starters or even significant role players. Maybe this draft is the one. I could see the team letting Teo go after this year and starting Perry, if he plays well this year.
- LB - 7 (Teo, Perryman, Attaochu, Emanuel, Perry, Brown, Tourek Williams)
- OL - 4 (Fluker, Watt, Tuerk, Clark)
- DL - 3 (Bosa, Carrethers, Philon)
- DB - 3 (Verrett, Steve Williams, Mager)
- Backs - 3 (Gordon, Grice, Watt)
- Receivers - 3 (Allen, Henry, Reese)
- QB - 1 (Sorenson)
- Specialists - 1 (Kaser)
The thing that stands out the most to me is DL. Only 3 drafted, and two of them were 5th round (165th pick) or later. Meanwhile, Telesco has only signed one free agent DL who looks like at least an average starter (Mebane). Bosa will certainly help this year, but the DL will still have very little quality depth and will remain the weakest unit on the team.
Looks like this year's team will have 9 starters from these 4 drafts: WR Allen, RB Gordon, RG Fluker, DE Bosa, OLB Attaochu, ILB Teo, ILB Perryman, CB Verrett, P Kaser. If Gordon plays better, Verrett can stay healthy, and the others at least carry over their play, this is a pretty good group. Not great -- no Pro Bowls yet -- but good potential to change that going forward.
Telesco really hasn't found any gems in the draft yet. Not counting Kaser, so far none of the players taken after the third round have become starters or even significant role players. Maybe this draft is the one. I could see the team letting Teo go after this year and starting Perry, if he plays well this year.
Last edited by a moderator:
TartanLion
Footballguy
Looks like you boys brought in Waldmans favourite sleeper QB Bercovici. Was hoping the Lions would take him as UDFA but used a late pick on Ruddock instead.
Best of luck with your drafted players always had a soft spot for the Chargers
Best of luck with your drafted players always had a soft spot for the Chargers
Gr00vus
Footballguy
The Chargers are a soft spot.
A punter. They drafted a punter.
I hear they'll give each fan in attendance for the opening home game a complementary kick in the crotch for free too.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Emm well we drafted a long snapper in the 6th round so your complaint is wasted on me ! I will say we drafted Sam Martin the punter a few years back and aside from 1-2 brain farts he has been an excellent punter. Drafting these guys a way to keep wages at these positions very low ?
Tau837
Footballguy
IMO this would be a great signing for Telesco: Former Chicago Bears OG/C Matt Slauson is visiting the Chargers
It would make up for not having signed a veteran center earlier in the offseason. Slauson could open the season as the starting center, giving Tuerk time to heal and adjust to the NFL before assuming the starting role when he is ready. And when that happens, Slauson could start at G/T, most likely at G, for whichever guy disappoints the most between Fluker and Franklin.
It would make up for not having signed a veteran center earlier in the offseason. Slauson could open the season as the starting center, giving Tuerk time to heal and adjust to the NFL before assuming the starting role when he is ready. And when that happens, Slauson could start at G/T, most likely at G, for whichever guy disappoints the most between Fluker and Franklin.
Tau837
Footballguy
From Ranking NFL teams' offseasons 1-32:
Thoughts?
Not saying I agree with this article, but this is a really dismal view of the Chargers' offseason. To think that they finished 2015 as the 3rd worst team in the NFL, and have followed that up by doing the 27th best (and thus the 6th worst) job at improving is... awful.
Thoughts?
Last edited by a moderator:
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Chargers sign Slauson for 2 years
http://www.todayspigskin.com/pigskin-news/san-diego-chargers-sign-matt-slauson-two-years/
http://www.todayspigskin.com/pigskin-news/san-diego-chargers-sign-matt-slauson-two-years/
Tau837
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
Updating this post.
The current depth chart looks something like this:
[*]Defense (30)
[*]Special Teams (3)
My view on how this looks today:
Thoughts?
The current depth chart looks something like this:
- Offense (24)
QB - Rivers, Clemens
- OL - LT Dunlap, LG Franklin, C Slauson, RG Fluker, RT Barksdale, C Tuerk, G/C Watt, G/T Wiggins, T Hairston
- RB - Gordon, Woodhead, Oliver
- WR - Allen, Benjamin, Johnson, Inman, Tyrell Williams
- TE - Gates, Henry, Cumberland
- FB - Watt?, Swain?
[*]Defense (30)
DL - DE Liuget, NT Mebane, DE Bosa, Carrethers, Lissemore, Palepoi?, Square?, Philon?
- OLB - Ingram, Attaochu, Emanuel, Tourek Williams?, Law?, Hekking?
- ILB - Perryman, Teo, Perry, Brown (or is he a SS?), McCoil? (or is he a SS?), Dzunbar?
- CB - Verrett, Flowers, Hayward, Steve Williams, Mager, Chestnutt?
- S - SS Addae, FS Lowery, Stuckey, Phillips?
[*]Special Teams (3)
LS - Windt
- K - Lambo
- P - Kaser
My view on how this looks today:
- That is 57 spots, so 4 more than can make the final roster. I expect 1 of the fullbacks and 3 of the defensive players listed above will not make it, but not sure which ones.
- They might want a 4th RB on the 53 man roster, especially since neither Woodhead nor Oliver are traditional RBs, and Watt doesn't offer anything rushing. This would push another player off the roster above.
- I assume the team will release C Robinson, who was the worst C in the NFL last season and is due to count $2.375M against the cap if on the roster, but only carries $75K in dead cap space. I further assume T Burwell and 7th round draft pick G Clark will not make the active roster.
- DL and safety look like the weakest units on the roster. Safety could be okay if the team is viewing Brown and/or McCoil at SS rather than ILB. Anyone have any insight on that? More on this in a later post.
- Better OL with upgrade at C, better depth, and hopefully better health. Maybe better coaching too.
- Better running game due to improved OL and adding FB and better blocking TEs in Henry and Cumberland. And hopefully better playcalling/coaching.
- Better passing game due to improved OL, upgrading Floyd to Benjamin, and hopefully better health from Allen and Stevie. (I do not expect Henry to be an improvement over Green in the passing game, at least not in his rookie season; hopefully that will be a wash.)
- Better run defense due to improved DL (Bosa, Mebane, and hopefully a healthier Liuget) and improved ILB run defense (Perryman replacing Butler's snaps... and Teo can only get better, since he was bottom 5 in the league at run defense last season). Not sure if the defensive backfield will be as good against the run without Weddle, though.
- Potential for better pass defense due to improved pass rush as well as better DB play (hoping Flowers rebounds and Verrett can stay healthy, and depth should be improved).
- Better special teams with Lambo in second season, Benjamin returning punts, and Kaser punting.
Thoughts?
Last edited by a moderator:
Riversco
Footballguy
That's a bad review because arguably the biggest add for the Chargers was Ken Whisenhunt. He will get more out of the offense. To not reference that tells me the reviewer really isn't qualified to grade the Chargers offseason.
Tau837
Footballguy
Reviewing the OL situation. Here are the 2015 PFF grades for the Chargers' current OL:
RT Barksdale
[*]Had above average grades for both pass blocking and run blocking. He was the 4th highest graded pass blocker and the 6th highest graded run blocker.
[*]Did not miss a game in 2015 or in 4 of his other 5 seasons in the NFL.
LG Franklin :X
Overall, it seems reasonable to think that the Chargers OL should be healthier this season, and that should lead to better OL play overall. Better health and an offseason together should also help, since last season the Chargers had new starters at 4 of the 5 OL positions, and they were never together enough on the field to gel. Slauson and Tuerk are major upgrades who will also help a lot. The Chargers have changed their OC and their OL coaches as well, so it seems possible that they can be "coached up" better this year.
Where last year, the Chargers clearly had one of the few worst OLs in the league, this year, there is some reason to believe (hope?) they can get closer to the middle of the pack, which would be a huge step forward.
RT Barksdale
- Graded as the #22 OT among all 118 players who played snaps at OT.
- Had above average grades for both pass blocking and run blocking.
- Has not missed a game since 2012.
- Graded as the #93 OG among all 110 players who played snaps at OG.
- Had below average grades for both pass blocking and run blocking.
- Missed 4 games in 2015, and probably played hurt in other games.
- He was learning a new position while the OL was in constant churn due to injuries. It did not help that the coaching staff didn't commit to moving him to RG early in the offseason. A season of learning on the job at RG plus an entire offseason at the position offers some hope that he can improve upon his 2015 performance.
- The team picked up his option for 2017, which means he is scheduled to make $8.8M in 2017. I'm not completely sure, but I believe the team could still release him with no dead cap money, since his original signing bonus was spread across the 4 years in his initial contract. If this is true, I could see the team releasing him after this season if he doesn't play much better, especially with Slauson now signed.
- I am guessing that Slauson has the inside track to open the season as the starting center, especially considering how well he played at center last season. This would allow Tuerk however much time he needs to completely recover from the injury he suffered last season and also would allow him to take more time to adjust to the NFL before becoming the starter.
- Graded as the #5 C among all 56 players who played snaps at C. Read that again.
Edit: It seems the PFF grades are now presented in only one place even if a player plays multiple positions. Slauson graded as the #5 center among the 56 players who were graded and are in the PFF centers list. But PFR shows that he only started 4 games at C. That included the Bears' last game, so maybe that is why he is in the PFF centers list...? Anyway, he started the other 12 games at LG, so the grade cited here is his composite grade.
[*]Had above average grades for both pass blocking and run blocking. He was the 4th highest graded pass blocker and the 6th highest graded run blocker.
[*]Did not miss a game in 2015 or in 4 of his other 5 seasons in the NFL.
LG Franklin :X
- Unfortunately, Fluker was the highest performing OG on the Chargers last season...
- Graded as the #106 OG among all 110 players who played snaps at OG... 5th worst.
- Had terrible grades for both pass blocking and run blocking.
- Missed 6 games in 2015, and probably played hurt in other games. In 4 previous NFL seasons, he had only missed 1 game, so hopefully this was a fluke.
- He played better (though not well) in his first few games, before the second injury, then played considerably worse to close out the season. Maybe due to playing hurt, combined with constant churn around him due to injuries. He had been a much better player in Denver, so we can only hope he returns to form this year.
- Graded as the #74 OT among all 118 players who played snaps at OT.
- Had below average grade for pass blocking but above average grade for run blocking.
- Missed 9 games in 2015. 2014 was the only season in his career (7 seasons total) that he played all 16 games, and he has had concussion problems. This makes it seem unlikely he will be able to stay on the field this season, which is probably his last as a starter (at least for the Chargers)... the Chargers can save more than $5M on the 2017 cap by cutting him after this year.
- C - Assuming Robinson is cut, the first backup is Tuerk. He played C, G, and T at USC, and graded out as the #3 center in the draft, so presumably the Chargers plan for him to be the long term starting center. He should represent a huge upgrade on the Chargers centers over the past two seasons.
- OG - Unfortunately, Wiggins and Watt both graded out worse than Fluker, and Watt was worse than Franklin, albeit in less than 200 snaps. Hopefully Watt can stay healthy, and that will help him play better. For Wiggins, hopefully he can play better in fewer snaps -- he had to play over 800 snaps last season.
- OT - Unfortunately, both Hairston and Burwell graded out worse than Dunlap. Burwell was a rookie who played just 82 snaps, and his run blocking grade was average... perhaps with more experience, he will be better. There isn't much similar hope for Hairston, who played more than 800 snaps last season and had terrible grades in both pass blocking and run blocking. For him, we can only hope he can play better in fewer snaps.
Overall, it seems reasonable to think that the Chargers OL should be healthier this season, and that should lead to better OL play overall. Better health and an offseason together should also help, since last season the Chargers had new starters at 4 of the 5 OL positions, and they were never together enough on the field to gel. Slauson and Tuerk are major upgrades who will also help a lot. The Chargers have changed their OC and their OL coaches as well, so it seems possible that they can be "coached up" better this year.
Where last year, the Chargers clearly had one of the few worst OLs in the league, this year, there is some reason to believe (hope?) they can get closer to the middle of the pack, which would be a huge step forward.
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes. Even if it doesn't happen, just the threat of it may help light a fire under Franklin and Fluker.
By the way, here's Fluker yesterday. Last year he was listed at 339, but was almost certainly over 350. Now he looks around 300. That should help.
In any case, I now see Fanklin and Tuerk as competing directly against each other for playing time. Get the best five out there.
Last edited by a moderator:
I also don't think we should underestimate how much it should help to have an actual, in-line blocking TE available, instead of just the "see if you can kind of get in someone's way for an instant" type of blocking that the Chargers have typically had there. And possibly a legit fullback as well.
Tau837
Footballguy
There are some free agent safeties available:
PFF ranked SS Whitner tied for #26 among 146 graded safeties in 2015. He had above average grades in all three graded areas (pass coverage, pass rush, run defense), with strong grades for coverage and run defense. He is 30 and made the Pro Bowl from 2012-2014. He missed 2 games last season but only missed 1 game in his previous 5 seasons. Supposedly, the Rams are interested in him, but per Rotoworld, he is "holding out for more than a million or so bucks." Sounds like he could be affordable.
PFF ranked Walter Thurmond at #28. However, he is supposedly seeking a long term contract worth $4M+ per year. Not sure he is a cap fit. He also had trouble staying healthy in his career up until last season.
PFF ranked Antrel Rolle at #44. He had above average grades in all three graded areas (pass coverage, pass rush, run defense), with strong grades for coverage and run defense. He had ankle and MCL injuries last season and missed 9 games, but he only missed 1 game in the previous 9 seasons. He is 33 and made the Pro Bowl 3 times, the last time in 2013. He has played CB, SS, and FS in his career, so he could add some flexibility to the safety group. Given his age and injury history, he shouldn't be too expensive. He has said publicly that he is interested in returning to the Giants, but it isn't clear if the interest is mutual.
PFF ranked Will Allen (PIT) at #52. He had above average grades in pass coverage, pass rush, and run defense, and was the 10th highest graded safety in run defense and 13th highest in pass rush. Addae actually graded out right next to Allen in pass coverage and pass rush, but Allen more than doubled Addae's grade in run defense. He is 33, so likely willing to sign a 1-2 year deal that would not be too expensive.
There are some others, but these guys seem like they have the biggest potential to make a difference. I'm not sure if there are issues related to the Chargers scheme that make any of these guys better or worse fits for the Chargers. Can anyone shed any light on that?
Not sure it really fits Telesco's style to sign veterans in their 30s. He did that with Freeney, and we don't really know if he views that as having worked out or not. He obviously let Weddle walk at age 31, but perhaps more over money than age...? I'd like to see him sign one of Whitner, Rolle, or Allen to a reasonably priced deal. They would all seem likely to beat out Addae for the starting SS spot. Or, who knows, maybe the competition would push him to perform better...
Thoughts?
PFF ranked SS Whitner tied for #26 among 146 graded safeties in 2015. He had above average grades in all three graded areas (pass coverage, pass rush, run defense), with strong grades for coverage and run defense. He is 30 and made the Pro Bowl from 2012-2014. He missed 2 games last season but only missed 1 game in his previous 5 seasons. Supposedly, the Rams are interested in him, but per Rotoworld, he is "holding out for more than a million or so bucks." Sounds like he could be affordable.
PFF ranked Walter Thurmond at #28. However, he is supposedly seeking a long term contract worth $4M+ per year. Not sure he is a cap fit. He also had trouble staying healthy in his career up until last season.
PFF ranked Antrel Rolle at #44. He had above average grades in all three graded areas (pass coverage, pass rush, run defense), with strong grades for coverage and run defense. He had ankle and MCL injuries last season and missed 9 games, but he only missed 1 game in the previous 9 seasons. He is 33 and made the Pro Bowl 3 times, the last time in 2013. He has played CB, SS, and FS in his career, so he could add some flexibility to the safety group. Given his age and injury history, he shouldn't be too expensive. He has said publicly that he is interested in returning to the Giants, but it isn't clear if the interest is mutual.
PFF ranked Will Allen (PIT) at #52. He had above average grades in pass coverage, pass rush, and run defense, and was the 10th highest graded safety in run defense and 13th highest in pass rush. Addae actually graded out right next to Allen in pass coverage and pass rush, but Allen more than doubled Addae's grade in run defense. He is 33, so likely willing to sign a 1-2 year deal that would not be too expensive.
There are some others, but these guys seem like they have the biggest potential to make a difference. I'm not sure if there are issues related to the Chargers scheme that make any of these guys better or worse fits for the Chargers. Can anyone shed any light on that?
Not sure it really fits Telesco's style to sign veterans in their 30s. He did that with Freeney, and we don't really know if he views that as having worked out or not. He obviously let Weddle walk at age 31, but perhaps more over money than age...? I'd like to see him sign one of Whitner, Rolle, or Allen to a reasonably priced deal. They would all seem likely to beat out Addae for the starting SS spot. Or, who knows, maybe the competition would push him to perform better...
Thoughts?
Tau837
Footballguy
And so it begins. Just when I started feeling optimistic about Gordon: San Diego Chargers running back Melvin Gordon had microfracture surgery in January
Suddenly the team's depth at RB looks really weak, since neither Oliver nor Woodhead fit the mold of a traditional RB like Gordon does.
ETA: Doesn't it seem curious that the team has not added a RB? Heck, this makes it a bit surprising that Telesco let his favorite RB Donald Brown go. I'd like to believe this indicates that Gordon will be able to recover in time for this season, but it's hard for me to assume that Gordon will be the first RB I know of who has this surgery and then gets better.
Thoughts?
Not good. I know these RBs had microfracture surgery:
- Terrell Davis (2002) -- never played again.
- Reggie Bush (2008) -- played several more seasons; 3 of them were good seasons, but the 2 seasons immediately following the surgery were among his few worst; the injury presumably contributed to the Saints decision to let him go.
- Maurice Jones-Drew (2011) -- had surgery following the best season of his career; played 3 more seasons but never regained his form.
Suddenly the team's depth at RB looks really weak, since neither Oliver nor Woodhead fit the mold of a traditional RB like Gordon does.
ETA: Doesn't it seem curious that the team has not added a RB? Heck, this makes it a bit surprising that Telesco let his favorite RB Donald Brown go. I'd like to believe this indicates that Gordon will be able to recover in time for this season, but it's hard for me to assume that Gordon will be the first RB I know of who has this surgery and then gets better.
Thoughts?
Last edited by a moderator:
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I said in another thread, even before the microfracture surgery news came out, that SD should make a run at David Cobb. He was hurt at the start of last year and they were never in position for a grinding RB to have a role. Whis must have had a voice in his selection. Cobb is a better compliment to Woodhead than the other RB's on the roster. With the Titans bringing in Murray and Henry on the roster, Cobb falls to between the 4th and 6th RB on their roster. Doesn't seem like it would take much to acquire him. For that matter, drafting Kevin Byard drops Daimion Stafford to their #4 safety and I think he'd start in SD. If Te'o could challenge for a starting ILB job in TEN I would give him up in a minute for both Cobb/Stafford and wouldn't mind if SD went with Perryman/Perry in the starting lineup.
Another young RB I wouldn't mind adding to the roster is Mike Davis in SF, with a new coaching regime that didn't draft him. His roster spot is also very precarious. If SF is ready to move on from the Anthony Davis soap opera I wouldn't mind seeing SD trade Fluker for Davis/Davis. My biggest fear is Fluker continues to regress... then gets hurt and SD is on the hook for $9mil next season.
Either of those moves would work. For that matter I've been saying for two years they should bring in Pierre Thomas. If Woodhead gets hurt, this team is completely screwed. Sign Thomas to a 2yr contract and you have a deeper team right now and are in a much better negotiating position with Woodhead next season. Thomas is still playing well, a complete mystery to me he's a FA for the second May in a row.
Of course they simply could have signed Josh Ferguson as an undrafted FA, but that ship has sailed. I think he sticks on the IND roster.
Plenty of possibilities to improve the situation, I expect them to do nothing. After all, they need a FB to take up a roster spot for Gordon! lol
Tau837
Footballguy
I like the idea of adding Cobb or Davis, and I assume there will be other candidates. I heard that one day this week is the date where players can be signed without affecting compensatory picks, so perhaps Telesco has someone in mind who is currently available...?
I don't know if it is necessary to trade someone to get one of those guys or not. On the one hand, some guys of interest may eventually be released, but, on the other hand, that will deprive any such candidate of practicing with the team and learning the offense until potentially much later in the offseason/preseason.
There are really no RBs out there who truly replicate what Woodhead does, he is rather unique. That said, IMO Oliver would be much better as a poor man's Woodhead than as a Gordon replacement, so I think the Woodhead injury risk is reasonably covered now. I just don't think it makes sense to risk going into the season with no traditional RB candidate behind Gordon, in the event Gordon isn't healthy or isn't effective again. Woodhead and Oliver, whether individually or in combination, are not well suited to carry the running game.
With regard to Fluker, is the team truly on the hook for his 5th year option no matter what? I know they exercised it, but I don't know the rules relating to it. Is his option now guaranteed?
All actions from the team seem to show confidence that Gordon will recover. They released Telesco favorite Brown, did not bring in or draft another RB, and drafted Gordon's college FB. If they weren't confident Gordon would be healthy, they might not have done any of those things. Now, does that mean their confidence is appropriate? I'm not sure. There just doesn't seem to be a large sample size of NFL players having this surgery at a similar age/workload to gauge a typical success rate. And that is further complicated by the notion that every case can be different (i.e., how big is the issue, where is it located).
The troubling thing to me is that Gordon played poorly last season before this injury, and he has now been forced to spend his offseason focus on rehabbing and getting healthy rather than improving in other ways. That makes it seem less likely that he will be able to be more productive this season than last.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
It's my understanding that they are only on the hook if the player gets injured. For instance the Redskins picked up the 5th year option on RGIII, but as long as he wasn't on the roster this year they weren't on the hook.... unless he got injured. That's why he wasn't even their #2 QB last season because they couldn't let him see the field.
Tau837
Footballguy
OK, that makes sense. I assume it is more than just getting injured, but getting injured seriously enough that it carries into the option season or something like that. I hope that is true, anyway.
For RG3 it was a physical at the start of the league year in March. Had he failed that, his 5th year option would have become guaranteed. He passed it and was released. Assume it's the same elsewhere.
cstu
Footballguy
If the weight loss helps Fluker improve then it's looks like a solid 4/5's of a line. Sucks that Dunlap is the guy at the most important position.
Barksdale was already good at RT, and adding Slauson and Tuerk seems like it should solidify the interior 3 spots. Dunlap seems like the biggest area of concern at this point, especially since he is protecting Rivers' blind side.
Last edited by a moderator:
Riversco
Footballguy
A pretty detailed interview was done with OC Ken Whisenhunt a couple days ago. He talks about everything from Gordon to Benjamin to Henry to Tuerk and the overall philosophy.
http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/05/12/evaluating-offense-oc-ken-whisenhunt
http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/05/12/evaluating-offense-oc-ken-whisenhunt
BoltBacker
Footballguy
SD needs to release 33yo Clemens right now, today. They need to pick up Mettenberger and sign the 25yo to a 3-4yr contract. He was thrown into a bad situation early, but I would love to see what sitting behind Rivers for a couple of years would do for him(hoping Rivers has that long before the cliff). He is a clear enough backup that he wouldn't in any way threaten Rivers so Rivers could act as a mentor to the guy. I thought they should have drafted Mett back in 2014 when he was a 6th rounder. I would have preffered they draft Conner Cook as a developmental QB but now they have a FA that knows the Whisenhunt offense/terminology already. Telesco did a GREAT job in signing Slauson to a 2-year contract. Don't stop now!
I also like the #3 QB situation currently. The Renner/Bercovici combo has a higher possibility of upside somewhere down the line than Sorenson ever did.
What is the story behind Clemens anyway? If SD had just lost the AFC title game then maybe I could understand it. But they are not that team. They are a team that would have a great season if they were one game over .500. If Rivers had sat out a month last season is Clemens on the roster to ensure they win that 4th game instead of being stuck at 3 wins?
I also like the #3 QB situation currently. The Renner/Bercovici combo has a higher possibility of upside somewhere down the line than Sorenson ever did.
What is the story behind Clemens anyway? If SD had just lost the AFC title game then maybe I could understand it. But they are not that team. They are a team that would have a great season if they were one game over .500. If Rivers had sat out a month last season is Clemens on the roster to ensure they win that 4th game instead of being stuck at 3 wins?
Tau837
Footballguy
What doesn't really make sense is to have a rookie QB to groom, because by the time Rivers is done, the team could be stuck in an Osweiler situation with that player. It's too soon. But bringing in a younger and cheaper veteran than Clemens makes good sense. Then use the savings to help with extending Allen or improving the team elsewhere.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
All depends on when Rivers drops off. Less than a year ago people were calling Manning a franchise QB who was only held back by an injury in a playoff loss to INDY. It almost always happens faster than people expect.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Two very good back-to-back moves by Telesco going under the radar much like the Barksdale move did last year. Have to give credit where credit is due. Anyone know the length of the contract? Hope it's for three years minimum.
Tau837
Footballguy
Today's FBG email had a link to the Chargers Team Report. Here is the returners section:
From the DB section:
To not even mention Benjamin here pretty much invalidates this section. IMO Herndon will not make the final roster, and Benjamin will return punts. I'm less certain if he will return kickoffs ahead of Oliver, but he will certainly be no worse than the #2 kick returner.
From the DB section:
It would be a huge surprise if Steve Williams does not make the final roster as a backup CB, but he isn't mentioned. It also seems much more likely that either Dexter McCoil (not listed in the report) or Jatavis Brown (listed in the report at ILB) will play SS. I can't see both Phillips and Daniels making the final roster, and it would be ideal if the safety group is good enough that neither makes it.
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Chargers sign Brett Boyko....
http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/06/02/chargers-sign-tackle-brett-boyko
This MAY help ????
http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/06/02/chargers-sign-tackle-brett-boyko
This MAY help ????
BoltBacker
Footballguy
San Diego voters with sugar plumb dreams of a super bowl boom to the local economy should probably read/watch these.....
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2643473-insider-buzz-promise-of-super-bowl-may-not-be-enough-to-keep-chargers-in-sd
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/super-bowl-host-cities-always-lose-the-money-game-2016-02-05
http://www.citylab.com/work/2016/02/super-bowl-50-san-francisco-poor-cost-taxpayer/460077/
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2016/02/super-bowl-cost-benefits-economics
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2643473-insider-buzz-promise-of-super-bowl-may-not-be-enough-to-keep-chargers-in-sd
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/super-bowl-host-cities-always-lose-the-money-game-2016-02-05
http://www.citylab.com/work/2016/02/super-bowl-50-san-francisco-poor-cost-taxpayer/460077/
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2016/02/super-bowl-cost-benefits-economics
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I give Telesco a ton of grief when he is making obvious bad decisions, but I have to give him credit when it's due. He's coming off three home runs that aren't really being acknowledged by the national media.
- Slauson may not be an All-Pro but the difference between what SD has had at C for the past several years and Slauson is HUGE. Charger fans rejoiced that they had solved the OL by drafting Tuerk in the third round but he was coming off a major knee injury and there are many that feel he struggled to stay at 280 during the season in college. Playing at that weight against the Dontari Poe's of the NFL won't work. I like the player but he will definitely benefit from a red-shirt rookie season to recover and build mass for the transition to the NFL.
- Most of the league looks at the addition of Mettenberger and shrugs but people are downplaying the complete and utter desperation there is in the league when you don't have a QB. They also ignore how many QB's there are in the NFL in their mid to late 30's. The pirhana feeding frenzy to replace all these guys is coming and the number of pro-style QB's coming out of college seems to be shrinking. Plus, you have more and more 20-something NFL players just retiring just for health reasons.... and most of them haven't been cashing QB sized checks to build a bank account to never need for money again. Not every 39yo QB has the drive of a Brady/Manning and there are only so many legit SB contenders. Why take extra years of punishment if you have no hope of a SB and you have more $ than you will ever be able to spend? Mett may not be the next guy, but he can be a bridge to get to the next guy and in the short term he is familiar with Whis and has started in the league already. Great signing and they should extend him at backup money if they can.
- Speaking of extending someone, signing Allen for Hurns-type money was huge. There is just no comparison between these two guys and the deal looks smart now but it will look genius in two years when the salary cap jumps up two more times. I won't be shocked if there is a #3 WR getting close to $11/mil in four years as the league continues to drift to more and more passing driving up the demand for legit weapons. You could make the argument Hurns is already the #3 receiver in Jax behind Robinson/Thomas. This contract is a slam dunk win for SD if Allen stays healthy and in shape.
Still not a Telesco fan but he's white hot on his moves post-draft. The only way this summer could get better is if Spanos would just sell the team.
- Slauson may not be an All-Pro but the difference between what SD has had at C for the past several years and Slauson is HUGE. Charger fans rejoiced that they had solved the OL by drafting Tuerk in the third round but he was coming off a major knee injury and there are many that feel he struggled to stay at 280 during the season in college. Playing at that weight against the Dontari Poe's of the NFL won't work. I like the player but he will definitely benefit from a red-shirt rookie season to recover and build mass for the transition to the NFL.
- Most of the league looks at the addition of Mettenberger and shrugs but people are downplaying the complete and utter desperation there is in the league when you don't have a QB. They also ignore how many QB's there are in the NFL in their mid to late 30's. The pirhana feeding frenzy to replace all these guys is coming and the number of pro-style QB's coming out of college seems to be shrinking. Plus, you have more and more 20-something NFL players just retiring just for health reasons.... and most of them haven't been cashing QB sized checks to build a bank account to never need for money again. Not every 39yo QB has the drive of a Brady/Manning and there are only so many legit SB contenders. Why take extra years of punishment if you have no hope of a SB and you have more $ than you will ever be able to spend? Mett may not be the next guy, but he can be a bridge to get to the next guy and in the short term he is familiar with Whis and has started in the league already. Great signing and they should extend him at backup money if they can.
- Speaking of extending someone, signing Allen for Hurns-type money was huge. There is just no comparison between these two guys and the deal looks smart now but it will look genius in two years when the salary cap jumps up two more times. I won't be shocked if there is a #3 WR getting close to $11/mil in four years as the league continues to drift to more and more passing driving up the demand for legit weapons. You could make the argument Hurns is already the #3 receiver in Jax behind Robinson/Thomas. This contract is a slam dunk win for SD if Allen stays healthy and in shape.
Still not a Telesco fan but he's white hot on his moves post-draft. The only way this summer could get better is if Spanos would just sell the team.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Can anyone that watches Chargers practices this year chime in on where Benjamin(5'10") is lining up? I still think he's going to be Eddie Royal(5'10") from the slot with better YAC because of his speed. I don't see how he's a natural fit in the Floyd(6'5")/Alexander(6'5")/Jackson(6'5") spot on the outside.
Tau837
Footballguy
I haven't been to practice, but I expect Benjamin to line up mostly on the outside. Here is a great article on how Benjamin should fit the Chargers offense. From the article:
Last edited by a moderator:
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Danny Woodhead down with leg injury.
https://twitter.com/sdutgehlken/status/743158121036546048
Biggest scare, by far, of Chargers' spring developing now: RB Danny Woodhead down, being evaluated. Possible leg injury of some sort.
ETA:. https://twitter.com/chargersrhenne/status/743163533240655872 (ankle rolled up on, should be fine per coach)
https://twitter.com/sdutgehlken/status/743158121036546048
Biggest scare, by far, of Chargers' spring developing now: RB Danny Woodhead down, being evaluated. Possible leg injury of some sort.
ETA:. https://twitter.com/chargersrhenne/status/743163533240655872 (ankle rolled up on, should be fine per coach)
Last edited by a moderator:
Michael Gehlken @sdutGehlken
Crowd of Chargers teammates surround RB Danny Woodhead while being evaluated. Now walking off under own power.
2:09 PM - 15 Jun 2016
Crowd of Chargers teammates surround RB Danny Woodhead while being evaluated. Now walking off under own power.
2:09 PM - 15 Jun 2016
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I can't see the downside of offering a conditional late round draft pick for Tre Mason. He desperately needs a fresh start someplace after falling to third on the LA rb depth chart.
For SD he might step on the practice field and instantly be the best short yardage back on the team. He looked good in 2014 behind a very young OL and is only 22yo still on his rookie contract. Even if you are still a Gordon-truther...... based on how quickly he was picking up the passing game Gordon might slide into the Woodhead job as his contract expires and the move gives you Mason/Gordon as a backfield in 2017 if Mason gets his head back on straight out from under Gurley's shadow. If it doesn't workout, so what? 2017 draft is supposed to be full of RB's. May as well try to fill the job on the very, very cheap now and save the draft pick for other holes if you can though.
For SD he might step on the practice field and instantly be the best short yardage back on the team. He looked good in 2014 behind a very young OL and is only 22yo still on his rookie contract. Even if you are still a Gordon-truther...... based on how quickly he was picking up the passing game Gordon might slide into the Woodhead job as his contract expires and the move gives you Mason/Gordon as a backfield in 2017 if Mason gets his head back on straight out from under Gurley's shadow. If it doesn't workout, so what? 2017 draft is supposed to be full of RB's. May as well try to fill the job on the very, very cheap now and save the draft pick for other holes if you can though.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
So bosa hold out huh? Didnt think those were possible anymore
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think fan implies you are hoping a player does well. I think a truther implies predicting a player does well despite all evidence to the contrary, most likely because you have been wrong in your assessment of the player in the first place.
Last year Gordon scored 7.7ppg to finish as the #58RB on a per game basis. That falls just behind Ellington(8.1), Joique Bell(8.2), and Antonio Andrews(8.5). None of those guys are even getting drafted. Gordon is being selected as the #33RB in fantasy football for the month of June.
You have my permission to reverse anything you need to.
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Travis Benjamin injured...Severity unknown. May be nothing/who knows.
http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/chargers-travis-benjamin-injured-during-spring-camp/
http://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/football/news/chargers-travis-benjamin-injured-during-spring-camp/
BoltBacker
Footballguy
If the rumors are true that Eric Rowe is falling down the Eagles CB depth chart, I would love to see SD give up a conditional pick to acquire him. Some folks thought his best fit in the NFL was FS anyway, he might win the starting job in SD. Young guy, good upside, great contract but not a favorite of the new coaching staff. SD is desperate for S help.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Eric Rowe - DB - Eagles
The Newark Star-Ledger's Eliot Shorr-Parks believes Eagles second-year CB Eric Rowe is available for trade.
The new coaching staff doesn't seem high on last year's No. 47 overall pick. Rowe entered the spring as a contender to start, but DC Jim Schwartz has buried him on the depth chart behind Leodis McKelvin, Ron Brooks, Nolan Carroll, and Jalen Mills. At 6'1/205, Rowe would draw serious interest if available.
Source: Newark Star-Ledger
Jul 20 - 9:13 AM
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Stevie Johnson torn meniscus
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000678536/article/chargers-wr-stevie-johnson-suffers-torn-meniscus
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000678536/article/chargers-wr-stevie-johnson-suffers-torn-meniscus
Similar threads
