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***OFFICIAL*** San Diego (?) Chargers 2016 Offseason Thread (1 Viewer)

Kicking the James Jones tires, apparently...

ETA: Brian Hartline in for a look-see, as well...

 
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I heard on Chargers talk radio this morning that Stevie could be back for week 1, though perhaps a more likely scenario is week 2 or 3. Won't know for sure until they get into his knee in surgery to make a full assessment.

IMO if that is the timeline, there is no need to sign the likes of Jones/Hartline unless there is another injury. Allen, Benjamin, Tyrell, and Inman should be fine, particularly with Gates and Woodhead also being strong targets.

 
The GM, coach, or both must really be feeling the hot seat to go with band-aid solutions like Jones/Hartline.

Even before TEN brought in Andre Johnson I felt like they were going to have to part with at least one talented WR. I keep saying SD should part with a conditional pick for Justin Hunter entering the last year of his contract or even Tre McBride. Hunter just seems like a Rivers receiver to me. Sure, you might be able to wait out the situation and get one of these guys for free but what is an entire August of practices and preseason games worth so they can actually contribute at the start of the year? For that matter Agholor has been underwhelming in PHI and is part of a draft class PHI seems to be distancing itself from. I would be willing to give up a pick for both Agholor/Rowe even if it was non-conditional. 

Of course I still don't know why they simply didn't draft a developmental WR late for better depth. The team picked a punter 6th round of the draft when guys like Mike Thomas(Ole Miss), Kolby Listenbee, Daniel Braverman, Charone Peak, and Jakeem Grant were still on the board. Really, they could have simply signed undrafted Keyarris Garrett and I would rather use a roster spot to develop him than use it on either Jones/Hartline. 

 
Just Win Baby said:
I heard on Chargers talk radio this morning that Stevie could be back for week 1, though perhaps a more likely scenario is week 2 or 3. Won't know for sure until they get into his knee in surgery to make a full assessment.

IMO if that is the timeline, there is no need to sign the likes of Jones/Hartline unless there is another injury. Allen, Benjamin, Tyrell, and Inman should be fine, particularly with Gates and Woodhead also being strong targets.
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I think stevie is toast if they signed james jones already

 
I'd like to see the terms for Jones before passing judgment. I don't think it was a necessary signing... does this say anything about how the team feels about Tyrell or Inman?

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
I think stevie is toast if they signed james jones already
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It does make you wonder what they expect the final prognosis to be if they are moving this fast.

It's a shame, I loved the signing at the time but Johnson has been hurt for so much of the past three years. This could be strike four for a WR in his 30's now.

 
BoltBacker said:
- Most of the league looks at the addition of Mettenberger and shrugs but people are downplaying the complete and utter desperation there is in the league when you don't have a QB. They also ignore how many QB's there are in the NFL in their mid to late 30's. The pirhana feeding frenzy to replace all these guys is coming and the number of pro-style QB's coming out of college seems to be shrinking. Plus, you have more and more 20-something NFL players just retiring just for health reasons.... and most of them haven't been cashing QB sized checks to build a bank account to never need for money again. Not every 39yo QB has the drive of a Brady/Manning and there are only so many legit SB contenders. Why take extra years of punishment if you have no hope of a SB and you have more $ than you will ever be able to spend? Mett may not be the next guy, but he can be a bridge to get to the next guy and in the short term he is familiar with Whis and has started in the league already. Great signing and they should extend him at backup money if they can.
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Any word on how he's doing in camp or thoughts on his place (if any) on the final roster?

 
Positive reports continue on Tyrell Williams. From Chargers Training Camp Notes: August 3, 2016:

The star of the show was WR Tyrell Williams. Williams received almost every snap with the first team Offense, even in 12 Personnel (1 RB/2 WR/2 TE). In 1-on-1 drills he had a stutter step move that got him just enough space to get space on Casey Hayward for a Touchdown. He wasn't done. In red zone drills in 11-on-11s, Williams caught a short dig route with Nick Dzubnar trailing and long-strided his way for another touchdown. He was also matched up with Jason Verrett for a few snaps and had a short completion. Tyrell Williams deserves snaps, I don't care what Wide Receiver the Chargers just signed.
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I've liked what I've seen from Williams so far. If he can improve his concentration, he could be a plus.

Otherwise they need to speed up the John Jefferson cloning project.

 
Tyrell Williams still shining in camp I here. Did he beat Verrett for a long TD? They nicknamed him Tyrell Moss. Lol

 
Oof!

Imagine, for a moment, being Joey Bosa's mother.

Your 21-year-old son is the only NFL draft pick not in training camp. Being an outlier casts a negative light on him; while some fans side with him, others naturally back the team. You believe your son is being dragged through the mud by an organization that has not communicated with Bosa's agent in 10 days, that has yet to propose a contract structure resembling recent deals for a No. 3 overall pick. Oh, and by the way, had the home-state Jaguars drafted your son fifth overall instead of the Chargers at No. 3, none of this would be a problem. 

Well, she is reacting as parents sometimes do.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/07/chargers-joey-bosa-mom-holdout/#lb-photo2163204


Cheryl Bosa, the mother of Joey Bosa, expressed her frustration Sunday about the ongoing contract dispute between the Chargers and her son.— Facebook
+Read Caption
A source authenticated a Facebook comment left by Cheryl Bosa on Sunday afternoon. In it, she voices frustration at the situation. "It bums me out for him so much," she wrote to a friend. "Wish we pulled an Eli Manning on draft day."

Manning, of course, shunned the Chargers before the 2004 NFL Draft.

His father Archie said that he didn't want his son to play for the franchise. The team ultimately drafted Manning first overall anyway only to trade him to the Giants in a package featuring quarterback and No. 4 overall pick Philip Rivers.

While that moment in Chargers history remains something of a soft spot for team fans, it is important to note Bosa has not requested a trade and does not plan to do so, a source said Sunday. Cheryl's comments do not necessarily reflect those of her son. And she, just like seemingly all who are invested in the situation, can't help but wish the entire ordeal was avoided in the first place.

Instead, it continues.

The Chargers will hold their seventh practice of training camp Monday at 3 p.m. Bosa won't be there, as the stalement between the two sides continues.

 
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Bucky86 said:
Oof!

Imagine, for a moment, being Joey Bosa's mother.

Your 21-year-old son is the only NFL draft pick not in training camp. Being an outlier casts a negative light on him; while some fans side with him, others naturally back the team. You believe your son is being dragged through the mud by an organization that has not communicated with Bosa's agent in 10 days, that has yet to propose a contract structure resembling recent deals for a No. 3 overall pick. Oh, and by the way, had the home-state Jaguars drafted your son fifth overall instead of the Chargers at No. 3, none of this would be a problem. 

Well, she is reacting as parents sometimes do.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/07/chargers-joey-bosa-mom-holdout/#lb-photo2163204 Cheryl Bosa, the mother of Joey Bosa, expressed her frustration Sunday about the ongoing contract dispute between the Chargers and her son.— Facebook

+Read Caption
A source authenticated a Facebook comment left by Cheryl Bosa on Sunday afternoon. In it, she voices frustration at the situation. "It bums me out for him so much," she wrote to a friend. "Wish we pulled an Eli Manning on draft day."

Manning, of course, shunned the Chargers before the 2004 NFL Draft.

His father Archie said that he didn't want his son to play for the franchise. The team ultimately drafted Manning first overall anyway only to trade him to the Giants in a package featuring quarterback and No. 4 overall pick Philip Rivers.

While that moment in Chargers history remains something of a soft spot for team fans, it is important to note Bosa has not requested a trade and does not plan to do so, a source said Sunday. Cheryl's comments do not necessarily reflect those of her son. And she, just like seemingly all who are invested in the situation, can't help but wish the entire ordeal was avoided in the first place.

Instead, it continues.

The Chargers will hold their seventh practice of training camp Monday at 3 p.m. Bosa won't be there, as the stalement between the two sides continues.
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this franchise cant do anything right

 
TripItUp said:
Is Benjamin the #2 for certain or is that up in the air?

Any homers know?
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He has been practicing mainly with the second team to date, but it would be a surprise if he is not the #2. His contract certainly suggests they signed him to start.

 
Bucky86 said:
Yeah...I don't know the specifics, and cant decide on who's right or wrong, but either way it seems like a wasted top 3 pick that most likely won't ever be signing an extension with them. 
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The team is very clearly wrong to take the stance it has taken. From San Diego Chargers have not talked with Joey Bosa's agents since training camp started:

The San Diego Chargers and Joey Bosa's agents have not talked since the beginning of Training Camp on July 28, Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio reports.

It has been 10 days since Training Camp started and the San Diego Chargers are still insisting that their nonexistent precedent takes precedence over the precedent that has been set by the rest of the National Football League when it comes to negotiating with top five picks under the current CBA.

The Chargers have not had a top five pick under the current CBA prior to drafting Joey Bosa this year. So, when they tell you that "this isn't how we do business," understand that this is the first time they have ever been in this position and that their argument is ridiculous. They will point to the contracts of veterans like Philip Rivers, Keenan Allen, and Antonio Gates. Do not be fooled by this nonsense. Those players had the ability to negotiate terms other than offset language and bonus payout structures. They could insist on a higher signing bonus, higher annual average value, or longer contract. Those things are not on the table for a draft pick thanks to the current CBA.

That the Chargers have not found a way to get their top-5 pick signed is nothing short of an embarrassment. They are the first team under the current CBA to refuse to come to an agreement this late into August. They are 100% in the wrong and any vegan restaurant metaphors to the contrary are disingenuous at best.

Joey Bosa needs to be in camp and it is on the Chargers front office to make it happen. The clock is ticking.
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The Chargers organization is terrible, and apparently it always will be until the Spanos family sells the team.

 
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this has to be a Spanos move. What GM would seriously be this ignorant and not have their top pick signed already? To say that they don't want to set precedent is just crap. There has already been precedent of other non QBs getting the type of deal he's looking for. I'm a chargers fan at heart but Spanos is really doing his best to lose fans. 

Bosa camp is willing to negotiate. Chargers FO are obtuse

 
Sebowski said:
Huh. I thought Bosa was asking for something only QBs get. That's not right? Did the 4th and 5th pick get the terms Bosa is asking for? 
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From On the Joey Bosa holdout, I call bullsh*t:

By way of a quick recap, the two sides are hung up on two key contractual points: 1) offset language and 2) signing bonus deferment.

For both sides, the entire holdout comes down to a debate of precedent.

The Bosa camp is arguing that since the slotting system, which assigns the length, total value and bonus money in rookie deals based on where the player is drafted was instituted, the precedent has been repeatedly set for top five picks to receive either no offset or no deferment.

For the Chargers part, they would have us believe removing the offset language and/or eliminating the bonus deferment simply isn't done.  They would have us believe they are simply pushing for what all other teams write into their rookie contracts, that they are merely protecting the way they do business and cannot set a new precedent for anyone, especially not a rookie.

But what if the facts paint a different portrait entirely?  What if the Chargers are full of #####?

Fact: Since the slotting system went into effect in 2012 (five drafts), every third overall pick has signed a contract in which either the offset was removed or their signing bonus was paid in full by the end of their rookie season, as Bosa is requesting.

Fact: 16 of the 20 top five picks from 2012-2015 either received their bonus by the end of their rookie season or had the offset language removed from their deal.

Fact: Three of the top five picks, and five of the top seven picks to have signed this year, either have no offset language or will receive their bonus before the end of the 2016 season.

Fact: Both Jared Goff and Jalen Ramsey signed deals which guaranteed them their signing bonus before the end of the 2016 season AND removed the offset language.

What does all this mean? Simply put, it means that while it may not be the "Chargers way" to negotiate the offset language or the timing of the signing bonus, it is how the league conducts its business with its top five picks.  This really makes how they go about their business irrelevant and makes them look petty.

And now the kicker...Joey's camp has reportedly been very upfront about their willingness to compromise on these points by settling for one or the other.  And they have communicated this stance since May. They aren't, as some has reported, holding out for both.  Much to the contrary, it's pretty clear the offset language would become a non-issue if the team would just give some ground on the bonus.

In other words, the Chargers earned the third pick in the draft, entertained trade offers, and elected to draft a player they've coveted for nearly three years.  They made that player the first defensive player off the board, gushed about his having come from a "football family", raved about his work ethic and desire to be great...and then promptly tried to strong-arm he and his super agent into taking a deal no third overall pick has ever accepted in the history of the slotting system because "that's how they do business".  Like I said, I call bullsh*t.

I think what bothers me the most about this whole ordeal is that the Chargers had to know this was the cost of doing business in the top five and they still decided to attempt to strong-arm Tom Condon and Joey Bosa into taking a deal no other third overall pick has accepted in the history of the slotting system.  Frankly, trying to pull this garbage with Tom Condon, of all agents, speaks volumes of just how out of touch they are with the rest of the league and, of course, sheds an unfavorable light on how they go about their business.

So, the question becomes, why won't the Chargers pick up the phone, agree to pay Bosa's bonus out early and get this deal done?  Why on earth do they feel the need to apply leverage and over complicate a situation that should be simple?

Why?  Because If history has shown us anything, it's that the Chargers almost always do things the wrong way.
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:thumbdown:

 
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Wow. So 80% of the top 5 picks have had the offset language removed or received all of their signing bonus by YE. Add to that 3 out of 4 fo the the other top 5 picks this year.

Not a good look for the Chargers.

 
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Yeah, I think the Chargers are wrong on this one. The top rookies are really underpaid (compared to veterans expected to perform similarly), so just give them whatever you can under the CBA's slotting system and be done with it. There's really no need to even negotiate anything. Just give the max that's allowed, including offset language, etc.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Yeah, I think the Chargers are wrong on this one. The top rookies are really underpaid (compared to veterans expected to perform similarly), so just give them whatever you can under the CBA's slotting system and be done with it. There's really no need to even negotiate anything. Just give the max that's allowed, including offset language, etc.
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This. It takes a special type of stupid to screw this up. The Chargers are failing so bad right now.

 
I don't really understand the Chargers' vision of the endgame here. If the team caves in the end, then they unnecessarily cost themselves all this time for Bosa in camp plus all of the negative PR. Are they really willing to stand firm and let Bosa sit out the season over this? If not, WTF are they waiting for?

Is this a Spanos driven thing or a Telesco driven thing? Who is controlling the decision? And WTF is wrong with him/them?

 
Thanks guys. Wow. So stupid. 

As soon as I heard Steve Hartman on the radio blasting Bosa for this I should have known Bosa was on the right side of this one. We're unfortunately stuck with Hartman for a longtime, aren't we? 

 
TripItUp said:
This entire Bosa episode has completely exposed the Chargers front office as buffoons IMHO.
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For those of us who follow the team regularly, it's just more evidence of what we've known for too long.

 
Sebowski said:
That guy think they're playing 100 games in 2016? He counting 7 on 7 practice games or something? 
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MT's sense of humor is incredibly subtle sometimes. Do a search for the number 14 on that page and let me know what you find.

 
Would any of you astute gentlemen be so inclined as to opine about one Mike Bercovici? Used my last pick (#77 out of 80 overall) to take him in a very deep Dynasty Rookie/Free Agent Draft earlier this week, based off of Mark Wimer's glowing praise in a June 29 article about "Most Significant Addition: Rookie QB"...looking like he's worth a long stash? Rivers will be 37 by the end of the 2018-19 Season, and I can hold him for 3 years before having to sign him to a Contract... thanks!

 
nittanylion said:
Would any of you astute gentlemen be so inclined as to opine about one Mike Bercovici? Used my last pick (#77 out of 80 overall) to take him in a very deep Dynasty Rookie/Free Agent Draft earlier this week, based off of Mark Wimer's glowing praise in a June 29 article about "Most Significant Addition: Rookie QB"...looking like he's worth a long stash? Rivers will be 37 by the end of the 2018-19 Season, and I can hold him for 3 years before having to sign him to a Contract... thanks!
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1. Rivers has 4 years remaining on his contract. I see no reason to believe he will not play all of them and start the entire time. He could even go beyond that. So you will very likely have to wait until 2020 for him to potentially have a chance to play.

2. And that is if he makes the team. He has supposedly outplayed Clemens and Mettenberger in training camp, but none of them, including Bercovici, have played well. I have seen it stated multiple times that the backup QB will probably be the guy Rivers wants in the QB room, and I could see that. That likely means Clemens, and he also seems to be well liked by McCoy. IMO Bercovici is most likely to end up on the practice squad.

 
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TripItUp said:
This entire Bosa episode has completely exposed the Chargers front office as buffoons IMHO.
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I thought the same thing of the Melvin Gordon fiasco, and that landed the GM an extension. Now they are going to use their high 1st round RB as a kick returner? 

Wonder why the league didn't give Spanos the LA market after he's had the entire southern California market all to himself for a couple of decades and this is what he's come up with?

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Why the Chargers will probably win 14+ games in 2016.
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I wish they would have just put this reason at the top as it would have saved reading the rest of this ####......

" 9. Manti Te’o has blossomed into a nice three-down NFL linebacker, something many scouts and draft analysts didn’t think he was quick or agile enough to be. Te’o is not a dynamic passing-down linebacker—he struggles against route runners who can change directions smoothly—but his improved sense for keying and diagnosing play designs allows him to stay on the field. That will be the case if the Chargers play nickel in 2016. Pagano prefers dime, but he might not have enough depth at safety for that. "

... I know I can never help thinking, "MORE TE'O!!!!!" when watching the SD defense. Always good for a tackle 8 yards past the LOS, and able to cover all the NFL caliber receivers that are neither quick or agile. 

 
^That Teo positivity stood out to me in reading the article and certainly undermined the credibility of the author. Teo was terrible last season, so any 'blossoming' would have had to happen since then, whereas the writer seems to imply it was seen on the field last season. I can only assume Telesco drafted 2 ILBs this year because he expects to let Teo walk after this season.

 
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