Gr00vus
Footballguy
All the picks were atrocious. And a lot of the play calling in the red zone was horrific.
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***OFFICIAL*** San Diego (?) Chargers 2016 Offseason Thread (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Tau837
- Start date
Tau837
Footballguy
The constant pressure obviously affected Rivers yesterday. I heard on the radio that he was pressured on 20 dropbacks, and every Chargers OL allowed 3 or more except Slauson, so it was coming from all angles. The first 3 interceptions all seemed like plays where Rivers rushed the throws. The last interception wasn't completely on Rivers, there was some blame for Tyrell Williams on that one.
IMO that game yesterday was one where the loss of Allen, Benjamin, and Woodhead all showed up, particularly Allen and Woodhead, who would normally be good outlets for short throws to beat pressure. And it didn't seem like there was much of an adjustment in the playcalling to try to help with the pressure.
Bottom line, they are who we thought they were. Another losing season is almost a foregone conclusion at this point. Will McCoy and the rest of the coaching staff be fired?
IMO that game yesterday was one where the loss of Allen, Benjamin, and Woodhead all showed up, particularly Allen and Woodhead, who would normally be good outlets for short throws to beat pressure. And it didn't seem like there was much of an adjustment in the playcalling to try to help with the pressure.
Bottom line, they are who we thought they were. Another losing season is almost a foregone conclusion at this point. Will McCoy and the rest of the coaching staff be fired?
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
sigh
What was up with Rivers just basically launching up three hail mary's yesterday towards the end of the game instead of moving his team down the field one first down at a time. It was like he gave up and just said I'm chucking it up for anyone. This guy throws for a lot of yards but that's it.
Sebowski
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I dunno.
Just a few months ago plenty of people didn't think this team needed Tunsil or Stanley.
I'll admit, I didn't think Bosa would be as good as he's played.... but if you have that much invested in Rivers it just seems silly to hope and pray you figure out a way to protect him. The cherry on top will be Fluker getting hurt and then they will be on the hook for all that $. I wasn't critical of drafting him, but picking up his 5th year option for $9mil on a declining player was a big mistake imo. Maybe he can keep losing weight and switch to punt returner.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Spanos has had cardboard boxes waiting for the entire team for an entire year. Knowing how the Spanos family operates I assume they've been hitting up the produce section of local grocery stores for YEARS in preparing for this move.Gr00vus said:
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
So the Chargers move to LA. San Diego thirsts for another team. How long before it happens?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't think SD thirsts for another TEAM, I think SD may thirst for competent ownership and a team.
SD has the 8th biggest population in the country, and 2nd biggest population in the state. The NFL wants to be in SD. That's why they are giving the Spanos family lunch money to try to keep them in the city. SD voters shouldn't pay 1 cent to keep the Spanos family in SD.
Marauder
Footballguy
That is a misleading stat. It's not the size of the City that matters, it's the size of the Market. SD is the 28th largest TV market in the US by population. Currently a significant portion of their fan base lives in OC or the IE. If the Chargers move to Inglewood those fans are staying with the team. Anybody who thinks another team is going to be rushing to fill the gap in SD is delusional. It's not going to happen any time soon.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Anyone that thinks that any fan base(even the mighty contingent in OC/IE) is going to rush out to support the product Spanos has been putting on the field for the past several years is delusional. Just wait until Rivers(35yo) drops off.... and we all know it's coming. The Chargers are in contention for a top-5 pick in the draft for the second year in a row. But I'm sure LA fans will shell out NFL ticket prices(at a brand new stadium at that) because there are so few things to do in LA.
Given the option between being extorted for tax money by the Spanos family and watch a horrible product after paying PSL's or...... just about anything else, I'll take the field. I have no idea whether they will ever land another NFL team but with the Spanos family at the helm they don't really have an NFL caliber team now. Do they? I think they are legitimately better than CLE/SF/JAX but after that? For that matter I would take the young nucleus in JAX and all the draft picks CLE has over the SD situation with Spanos. Are we SURE they will finish above CHI? And remember, CHI has lost multiple starting QB's to be lower than SD... SO FAR. Imagine this team without Rivers for a few games.
Marauder
Footballguy
I don't want to get into a discussion about the Spanos's or how successful they will be in LA. That is a different discussion. My only point is that, if the Chargers leave, there is almost zero chance of San Diego getting another NFL team. The SD fans seem to be fine with that and that that's ok. "No NFL team in SD is better than funding a Stadium to keep the Chargers" is a perfectly legitimate opinion. I just hope the SD fans understand that those are their only two choices.
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
So you kind of have to give credit to the folks in San Diego. They didn't bite at the polls, correct?
Tau837
Footballguy
Every year since Telesco arrived, the team's top 2 needs have been OL and DL. He tried unsuccessfully to address OL every offseason, while ignoring DL until the 2016 offseason.
By adding Mebane, Bosa, and Reid (and letting some others walk), he was successful in upgrading the DL. Not that it is where it needs to be, but it is significantly improved.
Unfortunately, his efforts are rebuilding the OL (Fluker, Dunlap, Franklin, Barksdale, Slauson, Hairston, Pulley, Wiggins, Watt, Tuerk, Clark, Burwell, Trevor Robinson) have failed badly. Right now, the Chargers have 2 OL who are worthy of starting, assuming they are complemented by stronger players at the other OL positions. Those 2 are Dunlap and Slauson (whether at C or G). A few of the other guys might be okay as backups, if at the right salary. But overall the OL feels like it is still 3 starter caliber players short of being where it needs to be to take advantage of the talents/styles of players like Rivers and Gordon. And even Dunlap has had trouble staying on the field, so he really isn't a long term solution either.
I agree that picking up Fluker's 5th year option was foolish, and I believe I posted that in this thread. Given where this season sits, and given they should want to get a better look at Pulley during the remaining few games this year to help inform their offseason decisions, they should put Fluker on the bench to protect their ability to cut him with no cap hit after the season.
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DanFouts
Footballguy
Sad day....last Chargers "home" game?
I have been a Chargers fan since 1979. I will still root for them when they move to LA.
It's sad that such a beautiful city has chosen not to support the team....there are always so many opposing fans in the stadium....pathetic to have the Raiders stack the house year after year. If San Diego won't support the team (not packing the stadium, not voting for a stadium, etc), then I really don't blame the team for moving....
I know people blame the owner, etc. but even crappy teams in other cities (Browns, old Saints, Jets) always have better packed stadiums....and this has been going on for years!
I have been a Chargers fan since 1979. I will still root for them when they move to LA.
It's sad that such a beautiful city has chosen not to support the team....there are always so many opposing fans in the stadium....pathetic to have the Raiders stack the house year after year. If San Diego won't support the team (not packing the stadium, not voting for a stadium, etc), then I really don't blame the team for moving....
I know people blame the owner, etc. but even crappy teams in other cities (Browns, old Saints, Jets) always have better packed stadiums....and this has been going on for years!
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Since the Spanos family took over in 1984 their greatest success has been getting Geore W. Bush re-elected in '04. They are described by some as real-estate moguls.... yet somehow having the entire southern California market to themselves for more than a decade and owning a team in a league where the teams make almost a half a BILLION dollars in total revenue per year isn't enough to figure out how to build a stadium.
Then, when they officially try to slither out of the city and the other owners laugh at them and send them "home"..... what!? Nobody will support them in the city they wanted to be in all along?! The poor Spanos family.
1984.
It costs $2.50 for a movie ticket to see a new release like.... Ghostbusters, Police Academy, the Karate Kid, Terminator.
Unless of course you couldn't afford it and chose to stay home to watch Knight Rider, the A-team, and Fame on television.
The first Apple Macintosh computer was sold.
The CD player was introduced.
Mary Decker trips on Zola Budd.
The Ethiopian famine begins.
AIDS is identified.
Spanos becomes majority owner of the Chargers.
That's how long that family has had to build the team up into what it currently has become. They have been working on it since being hungry was a thing in Ethiopia. JFC, Sam Kinison has a better chance of getting to the SB than the Chargers do. Force that entire family in a clown car and let them drive as far north as they want to go. Maybe the good folks in Barrow, Alaska will be grateful to endure their song and dance. I think they will get a much more icy reception by LA fans than they realize but I can't wait to see the crowds they draw in that cavernous new stadium they will be renting by the hour when Kroenke is willing to let them borrow the spare set of keys.
Then, when they officially try to slither out of the city and the other owners laugh at them and send them "home"..... what!? Nobody will support them in the city they wanted to be in all along?! The poor Spanos family.
1984.
It costs $2.50 for a movie ticket to see a new release like.... Ghostbusters, Police Academy, the Karate Kid, Terminator.
Unless of course you couldn't afford it and chose to stay home to watch Knight Rider, the A-team, and Fame on television.
The first Apple Macintosh computer was sold.
The CD player was introduced.
Mary Decker trips on Zola Budd.
The Ethiopian famine begins.
AIDS is identified.
Spanos becomes majority owner of the Chargers.
That's how long that family has had to build the team up into what it currently has become. They have been working on it since being hungry was a thing in Ethiopia. JFC, Sam Kinison has a better chance of getting to the SB than the Chargers do. Force that entire family in a clown car and let them drive as far north as they want to go. Maybe the good folks in Barrow, Alaska will be grateful to endure their song and dance. I think they will get a much more icy reception by LA fans than they realize but I can't wait to see the crowds they draw in that cavernous new stadium they will be renting by the hour when Kroenke is willing to let them borrow the spare set of keys.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Didn't the Spanos family do quite a bit to help out victims of the 2003 and 2007 wildfires? I also heard they have been instrumental in bringing a lot of physical fitness programs to schools and youth football in the area. Haven't they supported local charities to the tune of several million dollars? There's probably a lot of stuff like this that they do.
I agree that they have been mostly terrible as owners, but certainly there is something to be said for millionaires who are motivated to be supportive of their communities.
Sebowski
Footballguy
If they want tax dollars to go towards a stadium they should send their profits back with it. The days of publicly funded stadiums in this state are over. The jig is up, billionaires.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Agreed.
Unfortunately for the owners, the Packers are a publicly held team so their financials have to go public. As it turns out the team in the smallest market in the country made total revenues of nearly half a BBBillion dollars in 2015. The cut from the current TV contract is nearly a quarter of a BBBillion all by itself. Now imagine that instead Green Bay, Wisconsin you have the entire southern California market to yourself for more than a decade.
So any owners crying about needing charity to build a stadium for them to pay their multi-millionaire players is simply barking up the wrong tree. Irwindale.... if you want to see the Chargers play that badly(double entendre intentional) build them a stadium, a cathedral, a memorial, and a Popeye's Chicken franchise. Good luck with all that.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
wormburner
Footballguy
Probably the smart move, but I wonder how tempting the role of spoiler will be with the Chiefs playing for a bye.
Tau837
Footballguy
By that logic, shouldn't they sit all of their good players? How would they field a team, though?
IMO they should protect Rivers' streak of consecutive starts and see how the first half goes. If KC is winning big, take him out in 3Q. However, if Gates gets an early TD, it is worth it to see if they can get him a second for the record.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Yes, especially if they are going to give the ticket-holders for this game a refund.Gr00vus said:
Gr00vus
Footballguy
The Chiefs aren't the Harlem Globetrotters. Their fans didn't pay to see their team take on a patsy. Well, not on purpose anyway.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
That's what they're getting, regardless of whether Rivers plays or not. I'm sure they'd much more enjoy an easy W anyway.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Get him the record so he retires alreadyJust Win Baby said:
Tau837
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
I was re-reading this thread today (yes, I'm a masochist) and thought I would point out that Inman did a solid job this season. @BoltBacker, is it safe to assume you aren't still down on him?
Tau837
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Actually, I completely agree with you. I was too down on him. To me he still isn't really a #2 WR in the NFL on a playoff caliber team but I think he would make a very solid #3 which is much better than I was expecting. To me he just looked "tougher" this year, more mentally than physically. One of the few bright spots of the season imo.
On the other hand I think I was much closer to being right on track for Travis Benjamin than some people that were wildly optimistic about how he was going to play this season. He had and Eddie Royal type impact on this offense as I expected and I think that's being generous.
McCoy is out.
Search for a replacement begins...
Search for a replacement begins...
Tau837
Footballguy
Long overdue. Reportedly, Telesco wanted to keep McCoy... if true, Telesco should be fired as well IMO.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Disagree. I think it was pretty amazing that McCoy was able to keep the Bolts competitive all season considering their injuries.
Despite being part of the unimpressive Belichick coaching tree, my top two choices would be Jim Schwartz and Matt Patricia.
Tau837
Footballguy
Couldn't disagree more. They weren't crushed by injuries in week 1, yet found a way to blow a 17 point 4th quarter lead to KC. Same story in the home loss to the Saints a few weeks later.32 Counter Pass said:
The NFL is a bottom line business. Here are the reasons it was appropriate to fire McCoy:
- 9-23 overall record in past 2 seasons.
- 1-11 division record in past 2 seasons.
- 1-11 record vs. DEN and KC in past 3 seasons.
- Finished last in the division past 2 seasons.
Granted, the other teams in the division have gotten better. And clearly this isn't all on McCoy... Telesco has clearly been a huge part of it, as AJ Smith was before him. Personally, I would have fired both McCoy and Telesco after last season.
McCoy was paid to produce better performance than he has produced, period.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't know why they wouldn't just hire Wade Phillips. They probably should have just made him the HC when they were losing Cam and Marty went crazy because he wasn't allowed to hire his family. People will say "He's a TERRIBLE head coach!"..... ummmm, what have the Bills done since he left? He got the Bills organization closer to the SB than SD has been since Natrone Means was a thing. And Wade did it with Dough Flutie and Rob Johnson at QB.
It wasn't that long ago everyone was running around saying Andy Reid and Jack DelRio were terrible coaches, and they just round rings around the Chargers all season even with glaring holes on their rosters.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
To me Telesco/McCoy are just co-dependent underachievers. And really it wouldn't be surprising to me if they were the cheapest GM/HC duo in the entire NFL last year. How this GM held onto this job this long is beyond me. If for no other reason I hope they fire him before the draft because I simply can't watch the team use a third of their draft capital on inside linebackers.32 Counter Pass said:
I expect the spanos family to search the couch cushions to scrape up enough change to hire a second tier college coach that will work for next to nothing.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I don't know what to think at this point. I'm glad McCoy is gone, but I don't know what to hope for (a good coach, but I have no idea who that might be). Telesco has been a mixed bag, overall I think he's been below average simply because he hasn't done enough to get all pro talent on the lines. It'll look worse on his account if Verret and Gordon continue to miss significant time due to injuries. Hopefully he learns that he's been able to find good talent after the 1st 2 rounds and starts expanding his lower round picks rather than shedding them. If he can't do that, it's time for him to go.
Milkman
Footballguy
I'm not going to sit in here and argue in this thread. Some of this forums best posters are in here and I appreciate their input but Rivers is kinda overrated imo. I started to think he was pretty good but some of the blame has to be put on him for these terrible years. His biggest problem is he is not mobile at all and can't extend plays. I don't think he reads the field great either. I see him looking over the field and deciding who he is going to throw it to before the ball is snapped. He's accurate and a great leader but he needs the best OL money can buy for time and he needs Keenan to stay healthy since he loves throwing to him 15 times a game.
Tau837
Footballguy
In order to call him overrated, you have to have a view on how he is rated. How do you think he is rated? Off the top of my head, without attempting to identify/rank those viewed ahead of him, I would say he is ranked roughly as follows:
By NFL coaches/players: 10-12
By NFL media: 12-18
By non-Chargers fans: 15-25
By Chargers fans: 5-25
IMO none of that equates to being overrated, except those blind homer Chargers fans who have him in the top 5 or so QBs in the league.
Furthermore, it is very challenging to make legit rankings for real NFL football, since how to rank QBs depends on whether a team is playing for near term, long term, or some kind of middle ground, the surrounding personnel, etc.
So who exactly is overrating Rivers, and how are they rating him in the first place?
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
I understand what you're saying, but he really hasn't had a whole lot to work with in a while, particularly in terms of protection (and coaching). There's been a pretty direct correlation between the health of the offensive line and his performance the last 5 or so years, as, yes he's never been even remotely mobile. And I think he's made a lot (and I mean a lot) of receivers look much better than they would be with lower tier QBs throughout his career. He throws a lot to Allen because Allen gets open, he'll throw to whoever gets open in most cases. Sure, he'll force feed Gates when they need guaranteed yardage every now and then because Gates has proven to deliver. But it's not like he's got Odell Beckham, Shepherd and Victor Cruz out there to throw to and he's just dialing in on Dontrell Inman or something.
Milkman
Footballguy
My thought when I wrote that is lots of people consider him an elite QB that has just had terrible coaching and a terrible surrounding cast. 10-12 sounds about right but I'm not sure he's ever been elite. He's had a mega elite TE for much of his early career which might have been what was inflating his numbers a bit. Rivers and peak Gates fit incredibly well together. My thoughts are Gates made Rivers better not the other way around.......and Gates is gone.
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Milkman
Footballguy
He force feeds Allen as well but he's accurate so he can get away with it to some extent. He does need good OL play. Henry Hunter should be a big help as well as Tyrell Williams. If Allen stays healthy that's a pretty good collection of talent to throw to. Hopefully they can get some OL help and Tyrell Williams can develop more this offseason.
Tau837
Footballguy
He was absolutely elite from 2008-2010. That was one of the most dominant stretches of QB play in the history of the game, all things considered. Unfortunately, 2010 was a long time ago, and he has definitely been hampered by poor coaching and a poor supporting cast since then. It's not excuse making, it is what happened.
As for Gates making Rivers, I couldn't disagree more. All you have to do is look at Rivers' performance when Gates missed games or played hurt over the years.
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