***OFFICIAL*** Steelers 2010 Thread (1 Viewer)

[Drunken Cowboy]

This year's first and next year's first won't get them close to the top 10.

FWIW, and I know it's not infallible, but the pick value chart disagrees with you. No way would I see any team with two brain cells to rub together moving two firsts to jump 10 spots or less.(so, in other words, no one but probably the Raiders...and maybe the Redskins). The chart claims two late firsts in the Steelers neck of the woods could get you to the neighborhood of the 10th pick(11th or 12, depending on what the 2nd year's #1 wound up being).

It would barely get them into the 20's and maybe not even that high.

The Steelers certainly didn't give up two firsts to move up to select Polamalu, and that was a move from 26 to 16(with only a 100 point difference in "value" from pick 26 to 31). That cost them a 3rd and a 6th, plus their original one, all from the same draft. If they'd be looking to only move up 10 spots, they aren't going to have to sacrifice multiple #1s.It's all conjecture anyway. You have to find a team willing to move down before you can even start discussing moving up, regardless of the spot or the cost. You could be willing to give up your whole draft, and if a team in the top ten doesn't want to trade, it doesn't matter. To say nothing of the fact that it's just not Pittsburgh's style to unload multiple high picks in draft day trades.

I think you are using 2 picks from this year in your chart. A next year's pick is worth less.

 

[mcintyre1]

The more I hear about what the team needs, the more I want them to trade up for Amukamara. He's everything they need in a CB to pair with Ike Taylor. He's 6'1", thickly built, is experienced in man and press coverage and is a willing run defender (averaged 60 tackles a year his last two years). If Amukamara somehow slides past 10/11, I really want to see them grab him.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Are draft day trades involving players even allowed if there is no CBA?

 

[Frenchy Fuqua]

Seems like a deep draft for CB and OT. I could definitely see them trading down as the first round closes and a team wants to grab a player before the end of Day 1. Maybe they'd do that and take the best CB/OT or look at Rahim Moore, safety from UCLA, in the 2nd. He is a ballhawk. With the Steelers struggles in nickle and dime defenses they could groom him for a year and then have him replace Clark.

 

[treat88]

This year's first and next year's first won't get them close to the top 10.

FWIW, and I know it's not infallible, but the pick value chart disagrees with you.

No way would I see any team with two brain cells to rub together moving two firsts to jump 10 spots or less.(so, in other words, no one but probably the Raiders...and maybe the Redskins). The chart claims two late firsts in the Steelers neck of the woods could get you to the neighborhood of the 10th pick(11th or 12, depending on what the 2nd year's #1 wound up being).

It would barely get them into the 20's and maybe not even that high.

The Steelers certainly didn't give up two firsts to move up to select Polamalu, and that was a move from 26 to 16(with only a 100 point difference in "value" from pick 26 to 31). That cost them a 3rd and a 6th, plus their original one, all from the same draft. If they'd be looking to only move up 10 spots, they aren't going to have to sacrifice multiple #1s.It's all conjecture anyway. You have to find a team willing to move down before you can even start discussing moving up, regardless of the spot or the cost. You could be willing to give up your whole draft, and if a team in the top ten doesn't want to trade, it doesn't matter. To say nothing of the fact that it's just not Pittsburgh's style to unload multiple high picks in draft day trades.

I think you are using 2 picks from this year in your chart. A next year's pick is worth less.

Exactly. A future pick is generally valued at 1 round lower than a pick in the same round this year.Using this draft value chart:

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

Our 1st pick this year plus the 1st next might net us the 19th pick. Points don't have to match exactly but that ball parks it.

The Troy trade was an exceptionally favorable deal for the Steelers. Not a great basis to gauge potential moves.

Regardless, I don't see them making a splash, there is too much value at the positions the team needs that will be there at the current pick. OL, DL, and CB will all be there for the taking.

 

[Stillers Jr.]

Are draft day trades involving players even allowed if there is no CBA?

No...I just read an article where it stipulated it wasn't allowed. Trading picks for picks is ok tho...

 

[5-ish Finkle]

A future pick is generally valued at 1 round lower than a pick in the same round this year.

Fair enough.We agree it's really pointless to discuss anyway, because the Steelers aren't going to trade into the top 10 even if they had the ammunition. Not their M.O. and, as you mention, they have too many areas that need addressed due to age/etc.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

And whoever it was that wants to draft a corner and "dump Ike Taylor" needs to put down the pipe. They certainly need to draft a corner....to play opposite Taylor.

You think that secondary is a problem area now? Take Taylor out of it and put a rookie, even a great one, in his place across from McFadden/Gay. Not a comforting scenario.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And whoever it was that wants to draft a corner and "dump Ike Taylor" needs to put down the pipe.

Yeah that guy is crazy.Ike has been exceptional.

 

[treat88]

And whoever it was that wants to draft a corner and "dump Ike Taylor" needs to put down the pipe.

Yeah that guy is crazy.Ike has been exceptional.

Yep.I may get called crazy, but Ike is Champ Bailey minus the hands. If the guy could catch he'd be widely considered one of the elite corners in the league.As it is, he's just an exceptionally good CB that is an absolute necessity resign.

 

[Godsbrother]

And whoever it was that wants to draft a corner and "dump Ike Taylor" needs to put down the pipe.

Yeah that guy is crazy.Ike has been exceptional.

I like the idea of drafting a corner but that would be for an improvement to McFadden/Gay and not a replacement to Ike.

 

[3C's]

the beard is gone...or will be. charity event scheduled to "shear the beard" to benefit cancer programs at UPMC

 

[Godsbrother]

the beard is gone...or will be. charity event scheduled to "shear the beard" to benefit cancer programs at UPMC

Good. I thought the beard did not play well in SB XLV (perhaps not enough conditioner?). You hate to do it but cuts in football are inevitable.

 

[3C's]

LaMarr out doing good things.

http://www.nike.com/jumpman23/index.html#blog/2362

 

[Sabertooth]

And whoever it was that wants to draft a corner and "dump Ike Taylor" needs to put down the pipe.

Yeah that guy is crazy.Ike has been exceptional.

Yep.I may get called crazy, but Ike is Champ Bailey minus the hands. If the guy could catch he'd be widely considered one of the elite corners in the league.As it is, he's just an exceptionally good CB that is an absolute necessity resign.

Come on, the Packers march it up and down the field at will.

 

[Steeler]

And whoever it was that wants to draft a corner and "dump Ike Taylor" needs to put down the pipe.

Yeah that guy is crazy.Ike has been exceptional.

Yep.I may get called crazy, but Ike is Champ Bailey minus the hands. If the guy could catch he'd be widely considered one of the elite corners in the league.As it is, he's just an exceptionally good CB that is an absolute necessity resign.

Come on, the Packers march it up and down the field at will.

Would you mind limiting your fishing to the superbowl thread? TIA

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Based on criteria in place before the uncapped year, the Steelers will have 2 restricted free agents and 14 unrestricted free agents. The UFAs: RB Mewelde Moore, TE Matt Spaeth, G Trai Essex, Ts Willie Colon and Jonathan Scott, NT Chris Hoke, DE Nick Eason, ILB Keyaron Fox, OLB LaMarr Woodley, CBs William Gay, Anthony Madison, Ike Taylor, P Daniel Sepulveda, LS Greg Warren. The RFAs: QB Dennis Dixon, T Tony Hills

 

[Sabertooth]

And whoever it was that wants to draft a corner and "dump Ike Taylor" needs to put down the pipe.

Yeah that guy is crazy.Ike has been exceptional.

Yep.I may get called crazy, but Ike is Champ Bailey minus the hands. If the guy could catch he'd be widely considered one of the elite corners in the league.As it is, he's just an exceptionally good CB that is an absolute necessity resign.

Come on, the Packers march it up and down the field at will.

Would you mind limiting your fishing to the superbowl thread? TIA

You Steelers fans with all your sacred cows crack me up. Taylor wouldn't start in Green Bay. Fact.

 

[AhrnCityPahnder]

Lamar Woodley just got franchise tagged.

Also, Sabertooth -- go troll elsewhere.

 

[DawgPoundNJ]

Isn't it an unwritten rule around here to keep the smack out of the team threads?

 

[Sabertooth]

Look, I realize this is a team oriented thread but Pittsburgh's secondary got shredded by Rodgers. Including being beaten on the third and 10 play that helped seal the Packers win. If you want to go on comparing him to Champ Bailey, I won't stop you. But it's pretty silly.

 

[treat88]

Look, I realize this is a team oriented thread but Pittsburgh's secondary got shredded by Rodgers. Including being beaten on the third and 10 play that helped seal the Packers win. If you want to go on comparing him to Champ Bailey, I won't stop you. But it's pretty silly.

As has been said, this isn't the place for it Sabertooth.Is there some hyperbole in my Ike/Champ comparison...maybe. Not nearly so much as you seem to think, and I stand by the comparison. If Ike could catch you wouldn't be posting.That said, there's not nearly so much exaggeration in that comparison as stating that Ike wouldn't start in the GB secondary.Woodson and Williams are great players, without question. But, speaking of sacred cows...Sam Shields? I know you love your little rook UDFA and he had a decent season, but he isn't near the corner Ike is. Maybe some day, not yet.As for Rodgers shredding the secondary...that he did, but Taylor had a very good game. He did give up the big seam route to Jennings, but otherwise he pretty well locked up his man/zone.I'm not sure what motivated you to jump into this thread on this topic but if you feel the need to discuss it further we should move it to a new thread or take it to PM's so minimize the clutter.

 

[Sabertooth]

Look, I realize this is a team oriented thread but Pittsburgh's secondary got shredded by Rodgers. Including being beaten on the third and 10 play that helped seal the Packers win. If you want to go on comparing him to Champ Bailey, I won't stop you. But it's pretty silly.

As has been said, this isn't the place for it Sabertooth.Is there some hyperbole in my Ike/Champ comparison...maybe. Not nearly so much as you seem to think, and I stand by the comparison. If Ike could catch you wouldn't be posting.That said, there's not nearly so much exaggeration in that comparison as stating that Ike wouldn't start in the GB secondary.Woodson and Williams are great players, without question. But, speaking of sacred cows...Sam Shields? I know you love your little rook UDFA and he had a decent season, but he isn't near the corner Ike is. Maybe some day, not yet.As for Rodgers shredding the secondary...that he did, but Taylor had a very good game. He did give up the big seam route to Jennings, but otherwise he pretty well locked up his man/zone.I'm not sure what motivated you to jump into this thread on this topic but if you feel the need to discuss it further we should move it to a new thread or take it to PM's so minimize the clutter.

I meant to say that Ike would force neither Tramon Williams nor Charles Woodson to the bench. He's obviously a ton better than Sam Shields. I meant base package. Ike is very good and he's super strong in run support.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Also, Sabertooth -- go troll elsewhere.

Seriously.

 

[Grid71]

Based on criteria in place before the uncapped year, the Steelers will have 2 restricted free agents and 14 unrestricted free agents. The UFAs: RB Mewelde Moore, TE Matt Spaeth, G Trai Essex, Ts Willie Colon and Jonathan Scott, NT Chris Hoke, DE Nick Eason, ILB Keyaron Fox, OLB LaMarr Woodley, CBs William Gay, Anthony Madison, Ike Taylor, P Daniel Sepulveda, LS Greg Warren. The RFAs: QB Dennis Dixon, T Tony Hills

Makes you wonder what the CBA will have in store for teams protecting players. Owners may push for a transition period to resign players before they can become true UFAs. utpipedown:

 

[infantsam]

Look, I realize this is a team oriented thread but Pittsburgh's secondary got shredded by Rodgers. Including being beaten on the third and 10 play that helped seal the Packers win. If you want to go on comparing him to Champ Bailey, I won't stop you. But it's pretty silly.

As has been said, this isn't the place for it Sabertooth.Is there some hyperbole in my Ike/Champ comparison...maybe. Not nearly so much as you seem to think, and I stand by the comparison. If Ike could catch you wouldn't be posting.That said, there's not nearly so much exaggeration in that comparison as stating that Ike wouldn't start in the GB secondary.Woodson and Williams are great players, without question. But, speaking of sacred cows...Sam Shields? I know you love your little rook UDFA and he had a decent season, but he isn't near the corner Ike is. Maybe some day, not yet.As for Rodgers shredding the secondary...that he did, but Taylor had a very good game. He did give up the big seam route to Jennings, but otherwise he pretty well locked up his man/zone.I'm not sure what motivated you to jump into this thread on this topic but if you feel the need to discuss it further we should move it to a new thread or take it to PM's so minimize the clutter.

I meant to say that Ike would force neither Tramon Williams nor Charles Woodson to the bench. He's obviously a ton better than Sam Shields. I meant base package. Ike is very good and he's super strong in run support.

Nice back-pedalIf pose a reasonable question you'll not get yelled at.newayNot sure how to do it but it's frustrating to watch the Steelers defense on average dominate or at least put us in position to win only to have the big plays on third down or other more important situations prevent us from winning. IMO limiting Rodgers and GB to just over 300 yards was perfectly acceptable as they weren't running the ball and even w/ the to's we came oh so close - but the third downs/big plays killed us.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

- but the third downs/big plays killed us.

This has been a problem in Pittsburgh for the better part of a decade.I fear that, schematically, they feel that it isn't that big of an issue. I do not share that opinion with them....but that and a dollar will get me a dollar.I REALLY hope they are at least open to the idea that, when talking about DBs(CBs far moreso than Safties), putting the ability to tackle above ability to cover when scouting could potentially be going the way of the dinosaur. Too many teams that they need to beat to be in position to win championships run the spread already....I fully expect more of them in the future, as the league moves toward more officiating that caters to "pinball machine" scoring in an effort to market to a global customer base.

 

[Sabertooth]

I think Pittsburgh is built to run and stop the run. But I think Green Bay is on the right track building to pass and stop the pass. I just think with all the rules the NFL has in place to protect QBs and WRs, the paradigm has shifted.

 

[LTF]

I think Pittsburgh is built to run and stop the run. But I think Green Bay is on the right track building to pass and stop the pass. I just think with all the rules the NFL has in place to protect QBs and WRs, the paradigm has shifted.

The Steelers haven't been built to run for years. I know the last two seasons their base set (the offensive set they run the most plays out of) is the 3 WR set. With Roethlisberger they sling it around as much as anyone. It's just when they get a lead with their defense built the way it is they're much more prone to hand the ball off and grind out games. In 2009 when they didn't have that dominant D they slung the ball around as much as anyone, with Roethlisberger having 556 dropbacks (or more if you include times he ran out of designed passing plays) in just 15 games. Defensively, they're built to dominate the LOS but stop deep plays down the field. They've give up those 8 yard outs and slants all game, but they don't want to get beat deep. They figure they'll drop guys back in zones, take away the deep options, and let their front 7 do work, and eventually an opposing QB will make a mistake. I don't think they're necessarily built to just stop the run. Pittsburgh's problem is that their corners past Ike Taylor simply aren't that good. Upgrade that area and they should see a significant difference in play in the back end.

 

[CrossEyed]

The beard is no more.

 

[Barry Jive and The Uptown Five]

The beard is no more.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

The beard is no more.

It will live forever in our memories.