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***official*** Trevor Siemian latest to pilot the Jets! (1 Viewer)

Shutout said:
I agree that I think the Sieman stuff has no legs. That's really my entire reason for visiting this thread. I don't buy it.  I'm not sure about Sanchez not being able to play worse than Manning. It's still a mental position to a large degree and I suspect we will see some plays this year where announcers will imply that "those are the kinds of plays you can't make" and "the kind that Manning wouldn't make".  But that's another topic. My main focus is I don't see either as the "answer" and I certainly don't see Sieman as a legit option here.
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I actually think it's a good topic for this thread. Put me in the camp that believes Thomas is every bit as effective as last year because Sanchez can make all those THROWS, but to expect Sanchez to diagnose defenses pre-snap the way Manning did seems like pure folly imo. That could hurt both the passing game and running game, although Sanchez has been around long enough he would likely still be much better at that than Siemian.

And btw, let's try not to drop any "i"s from Siemian. Even if Paxton Lynch would be all for it.

 
 

Appearing on Sirius XM Radio, ESPN's Adam Schefter said Trevor Siemian has a serious chance to be the Broncos' starting quarterback.
"The Trevor Siemian talk and chatter is real," stated Schefter. "He has a legitimate chance to win the job ... the competition is real." We feel like this may say more about Mark Sanchez than Siemian, whose college resume in no way suggested he might have any chance to become an NFL starter. The fact that first-round pick Paxton Lynch is so clearly behind Siemian and Sanchez may also be a concern.
 

Related: Mark Sanchez, Paxton Lynch
 
Source: Sirius XM NFL Radio 
Jul 18 - 4:05 PM
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So these two teenage whales, Billy and Jenny, are out swimming around the sea.  They spot a large sailboat, and decide to see if they can flip it over.  They are successful,  and the sailors on board start sinking to to bottom of the sea.  Billy says to Jenny, ''Hey, let's go down there and eat those sailors!!'   Jenny says to Billy, ''I'll go down, but I'm not swallowing the seamen!''

 
When offseason work ended, coach Gary Kubiak said that Mark Sanchez and Trevor Siemian were pretty much even in their quest to land that job with rookie Paxton Lynch a bit behind. In an interview with Sirius XM NFL Radio with Tom Pelissero and Bill Polian, though, defensive tackle Sylvester Williamssaid that Kubiak’s message to the team was a bit different.

“Right now, they’re giving all three of those guys equal reps, so I don’t think either one of them has created any advantage at this point, because they haven’t consistently been with the ones yet,” Williams said. “But I think, going into the camp, I think Coach Kub kind of let us know he’s going to go with Mark and give Mark the opportunity to see what he can do and then go on from there.”
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/21/sylvester-williams-kubiak-kind-of-let-us-know-hes-going-with-mark-sanchez/

 
Broncos GM John Elway reiterated that the team's quarterback position is "going to be wide open."
Elway agreed with coach Gary Kubiak that none of the Broncos' quarterbacks did enough in the spring to separate from the pack. Kubiak later said he is "interested" to see how Mark Sanchez and Trevor Siemian "look" in team drills, and revealed that they will "split" first-team reps at the beginning of camp. Kubiak conceded rookie Paxton Lynch struggled with "verbiage, huddle, those types of things" at OTAs and minicamp. It's looking more and more likely that the Broncos' quarterback battle will come down to Sanchez and Siemian.

 
 
Source: Andrew Mason on Twitter 
Jul 27 - 7:44 PM
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Mark Sanchez was benched at Broncos practice on Friday after throwing a bad interception.
In a classic Sanchezian moment, he scrambled to his left, threw off target in the direction of Emmanuel Sanders, and was intercepted by Chris Harris. Sanchez was immediately pulled off the field, and Trevor Siemian closed out practice with the first-team offense. Coach Gary Kubiak insisted nothing should be read into it. "We're trying to go up there every night looking at an equal amount with each kid," said Kubiak. "That'll probably stay consistent here for a couple of weeks."

 
 
Source: 9 News Denver 
Jul 29 - 5:15 PM
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Sounds like Kubiak is going to have zero tolerance for stupid mistakes. That smoke may be fire, because Sanchez and dumb mistakes go together like PB&J

 
With the D they have, Siemian can be inserted to see if could be their long term QB. They have the luxury of allowing him to just be a game manager while he gets his feet wet. That's how you find Kurt Warner's. in this league. I'm not sold on Lynch.

 
FWIW Cecil Lamey said today that Sanchez wasn't benched and that the snaps were predetermined before practice.  He also said that Sanchez is ahead of him and he give's Siemian a 5% chance of winning job.  

 
first depth chart released:

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- Notes on the Broncos' depth chart, which was released Monday morning:

... At quarterback, Mark Sanchez and Trevor Siemian are co-No. 1 quarterbacks. Given how the two have split first-team repetitions since the beginning of training camp, the decision does not come as a surprise. Both have been neck and neck with each other since OTAs. First-round pick Paxton Lynch remains the No. 3 quarterback.
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tone1oc said:
FWIW Cecil Lamey said today that Sanchez wasn't benched and that the snaps were predetermined before practice.  He also said that Sanchez is ahead of him and he give's Siemian a 5% chance of winning job.  
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Cecil may be right.  I give him a 23% chance since we are just taking stabs at arbitrary numbers.  

 
Sabertooth said:
That's my point exactly.  What possible factual data could he be basing that on?  It's just fluff.  
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I definitely do not think of Cecil as some oracle or someone whose opinion I weigh heavily in my decision making.  He is at every Broncos practice and is connected to the team FWIW, and I did say FWIW for a reason.  Someone had tweeted asking about Sanchez "benching" and to provide some odds of Siemian winning job, just thought I'd pass it along as he is a FBG, for what that is worth  :D

 
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Sanchez spent some time holding kicks yesterday - back-up QB duty?

I was listening to J and Stokley yesterday on 104.3 - they seem to think Siemian is pulling away.  Seems to make better decisions (Sanchez has a tendancy to make bad mistakes at the wrong time).  They said Siemian's body language is trending up, whereas Sanchez is trending down...what ever that all means.

 
Since I know virtually nothing about Siemian, I'm wondering how his QB presence on the field would affect the fantasy stock of Thomas and Sanders. I'm guessing it can't be good. I just hope Siemian is not 2011 Colts QBs bad (which wrecked the production of a still-good Reggie Wayne).

 
Northwestern alum and season ticket holder here.  Watched Siemian in person many times, everyone always felt he had the look of an NFL QB.  He made some absolutely amazing throws but was also prone to facepalm INTs.  Could move around in the pocket too, when he was splitting with Kain Colter was not always a given that he'd be throwing although 95% of the time that was the case.  Worth a flier in my book.

 
MiniBears said:
Northwestern alum and season ticket holder here.  Watched Siemian in person many times, everyone always felt he had the look of an NFL QB.  He made some absolutely amazing throws but was also prone to facepalm INTs.  Could move around in the pocket too, when he was splitting with Kain Colter was not always a given that he'd be throwing although 95% of the time that was the case.  Worth a flier in my book.
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Thanks for the reply. Is Siemian capable of getting the ball to a pair of outstanding receivers in most situations? I don't mean like 2013 Peyton Manning, but at least competently. Because I think Sanchez looked competent over the weekend, although that was against the Bears' horrible D.

 
moleculo said:
Sanchez spent some time holding kicks yesterday - back-up QB duty?

I was listening to J and Stokley yesterday on 104.3 - they seem to think Siemian is pulling away.  Seems to make better decisions (Sanchez has a tendancy to make bad mistakes at the wrong time).  They said Siemian's body language is trending up, whereas Sanchez is trending down...what ever that all means.
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I think Plummer was the holder when he started. but yeah, the more news that comes out, the stronger the push for Siemian seems to be. Just hoping Lynch puts it all together soon. Dat bootleg....

 
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BoltBacker said:
I actually think it's a good topic for this thread. Put me in the camp that believes Thomas is every bit as effective as last year because Sanchez can make all those THROWS, but to expect Sanchez to diagnose defenses pre-snap the way Manning did seems like pure folly imo. That could hurt both the passing game and running game, although Sanchez has been around long enough he would likely still be much better at that than Siemian.

And btw, let's try not to drop any "i"s from Siemian. Even if Paxton Lynch would be all for it.
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Totally agree. I think Sanchez can make better throws than Manning, the problem is he may make that better throw into triple coverage for a pick 6.

 
purestrength said:
Thanks for the reply. Is Siemian capable of getting the ball to a pair of outstanding receivers in most situations? I don't mean like 2013 Peyton Manning, but at least competently. Because I think Sanchez looked competent over the weekend, although that was against the Bears' horrible D.
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He's definitely got an NFL arm and delivery, it's his decision making that needed a lot of improvement.  The NU-Ohio State game in 2013 was a great example - he looked like a lottery pick for a good part of that game (see some of his highlights at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=410EINJYzPs) and then made some boneheaded turnovers and NU ended up losing not only this game, but tanking the rest of the season (they were ranked #16 at the time).  There were a few times I watched him zing balls into the corner of the endzone for TDs and thought "this guy's going to be playing on Sundays".  He'd follow that up with a "how on earth did you not see that guy" INT.  Worth a last round flier in dynasty IMHO if he can get coached through the vision/judgment issues.

 
After Week 1 of the regular season, I figure we'll all be scrambling to get Trevor Siemian as a back-up QB on our fantasy teams.

Or maybe not.

 
I can understand them wanting to avoid turnovers by starting Siemian, but that's assuming the bronco defense is equal or better to last years defense that won games on their own. Raise your hand if you think the bronco defense is going to be as good as last years bronco defense. If not, won't they need more production out of the QB position? 

 
BoltBacker said:
I can understand them wanting to avoid turnovers by starting Siemian, but that's assuming the bronco defense is equal or better to last years defense that won games on their own. Raise your hand if you think the bronco defense is going to be as good as last years bronco defense. If not, won't they need more production out of the QB position? 
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:hey: I believe this D will be better.  They are returning 9 of 11 starters - the only two starters who walked are at non-critical positions, and can be replaced with in-house talent. That being said, some of the youngsters have really flashed this pre-season - I'm talking about Bradley Roby (who I think may be better than Talib this year and Cecil Lammey thinks has NFL top 5 CB potential), Shane Ray and Shaq Barrett coming off the edge to spell Ware, Lorenzo Doss (who has about a dozen Pick-6's in camp...he will be a fine nickel/dime CB), and the rookie safeties who have impressed so far (if they ever see the field in regular season).

This D is absolutely nasty, deep, and is flashing more now than they did last year at this time.

 
Well I don't know how anyone can spin that Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan weren't huge contributors last year, so just losing those two guys is a big deal. Then you go on to guys like Ware(after 7 months off is his back even allowing him to practice yet?) and Talib are unlikely to play to the level they did last year. Let's pretend Talib not being able to remember whether he shot himself or not because he was in such a drunken stuper at the the time is a complete non-factor, by the end of the year last season it looked like Talib was crossing over from the "physical CB" side of the line to "clutch-grab-pray" territory made famous by Brandon Browner. One of the guys that was supposed to replace Jackson was Vance Walker and he's out for the year. By my math that means their DL, LB, and DB's have taken a step back.

Are Roby/Ray ready to step up and play a much bigger role? Maybe. So if they step up and replace Ware/Talib.... who replaces Roby and Ray from last year? I find Ray particularly interesting because I think the transition from situational "LB" that only passes the QB to an every down LB(assuming he plays more to replace Ware's snaps) will be fun to watch. Before he was drafted it was a near consensus among the draft community he couldn't play LB because he didn't have the athleticism to play in space. You can hide that by being a glorified DE in a limited role on passing downs, not so much as an every down player.

Did Cecil think CJ Anderson had top 5 RB potential last year? Well, he was close. He was top 2 in the regular season on his own team to Ronnie Hillman who Cecil has been saying for years may not even make the roster. 

 
BoltBacker said:
Well I don't know how anyone can spin that Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan weren't huge contributors last year, so just losing those two guys is a big deal. Then you go on to guys like Ware(after 7 months off is his back even allowing him to practice yet?) and Talib are unlikely to play to the level they did last year. Let's pretend Talib not being able to remember whether he shot himself or not because he was in such a drunken stuper at the the time is a complete non-factor, by the end of the year last season it looked like Talib was crossing over from the "physical CB" side of the line to "clutch-grab-pray" territory made famous by Brandon Browner. One of the guys that was supposed to replace Jackson was Vance Walker and he's out for the year. By my math that means their DL, LB, and DB's have taken a step back.

Are Roby/Ray ready to step up and play a much bigger role? Maybe. So if they step up and replace Ware/Talib.... who replaces Roby and Ray from last year? I find Ray particularly interesting because I think the transition from situational "LB" that only passes the QB to an every down LB(assuming he plays more to replace Ware's snaps) will be fun to watch. Before he was drafted it was a near consensus among the draft community he couldn't play LB because he didn't have the athleticism to play in space. You can hide that by being a glorified DE in a limited role on passing downs, not so much as an every down player.

Did Cecil think CJ Anderson had top 5 RB potential last year? Well, he was close. He was top 2 in the regular season on his own team to Ronnie Hillman who Cecil has been saying for years may not even make the roster. 
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well, sure...that's a pessimistic view.  It's possible that Ware is a perennial no-show, Ray doens't advance, Talib never fully recovers, Roby regresses, and the new rookie safeties hit the wall.  There are no guarantees anywhere - there is no sure thing in  football.

Malik is a nice player, sure.  Statistically, he only accounted for 5.5 sacks....guess what - he also had 5 15-yard penalties called against him.  I'm not 100% convinced his entire set of contributions will be missed.

You ask who replaces Ray/Roby if they step up, and that's a good question.  For one, Shaq Barrett spelled Ware when he missed time, so that's the guy.  as for replacing Roby in the slot - it's gonna be either Kayvon Webster or Tandon Doss, both of whom have been flashing.

The one who will be missed is Danny Trevathan, especially in the passing game.  I'm not 100% clear what happens there.  Perhaps he is replaced with TJ Ward and then Simmons comes in as a 3rd safety.

Regardless, watch pre-season. The camp reports say this defense may be better than last years.  in the first PS game (ok, it was against an inept Chicago), the first team D allowed just one first down, and the entire team pitched a shutout, plus scored 9 points of their own.  Von, Ware, and Talib didn't even suit up.  This team is talented and deep.

 
moleculo said:
well, sure...that's a pessimistic view.  It's possible that Ware is a perennial no-show, Ray doens't advance, Talib never fully recovers, Roby regresses, and the new rookie safeties hit the wall.  There are no guarantees anywhere - there is no sure thing in  football.
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Well, I am not assuming Roby regresses. I'm saying if he was a good nickel back he may not be as good a starter, and nobody is proven to replace his role as a nickel back. 

I'm also saying that if your definition of "fully recovering" means being more athletic than before he shot himself.... yeah, I don't think Talib is going to "fully recover". 

Ray may advance, but it's a guess if he can play LB in space. There are plenty of smart folks that didn't think he was every a good prospect to be an NFL level LB coming into the league and I haven't seen anything that points to them being wrong. 

Ware is a 34yo LB with a bad back. I guess it's a pessimistic view to think he may not be the same player in 2016 that he was in 2015. Pessimistic. Realistic. Potatoe. Pototoe.

But let's get back to what you were saying, the broncos defense will be better than they were last year. Do you mean they will give up fewer than 283 yards per game, or give up fewer than 18.5 points per game?

 
BoltBacker said:
Well, I am not assuming Roby regresses. I'm saying if he was a good nickel back he may not be as good a starter, and nobody is proven to replace his role as a nickel back. 

I'm also saying that if your definition of "fully recovering" means being more athletic than before he shot himself.... yeah, I don't think Talib is going to "fully recover". 

Ray may advance, but it's a guess if he can play LB in space. There are plenty of smart folks that didn't think he was every a good prospect to be an NFL level LB coming into the league and I haven't seen anything that points to them being wrong. 

Ware is a 34yo LB with a bad back. I guess it's a pessimistic view to think he may not be the same player in 2016 that he was in 2015. Pessimistic. Realistic. Potatoe. Pototoe.

But let's get back to what you were saying, the broncos defense will be better than they were last year. Do you mean they will give up fewer than 283 yards per game, or give up fewer than 18.5 points per game?
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Points.  I think the defense was handicapped last year by a really poor offense - an offense which led the league in interceptions.  Those interceptions led to some short fields, and points. 

As great as that defense was, they only held one team to < 10 points all season.  They can do better.

 
anyone who has watched Roby extensively--esp during last postseason can see he's not just a really good nickle. he's already one of the best CBs in the game, and I don't take Lammey's word for it. Deion Sanders has said as much.

Jackson is a huge loss as is the loss of Vance Walker. Denver is thinner across the DL position and have taken a huge hit to the interior DL> We will have to see how Gotsis/Crick/et al. fill in, but I don't think they can replicate the interior passs rushing presence Malik brought. But they may not need to. Denver still has the best edge rusher in the league, the best defensive backfield in the league, and the best D coordinator putting players in fantastic position. The depth across the board (outside of the DL) is impressive on D.

Trevathan was a very good ILB, but unless Marshall was injured, he came off the field in passing downs. So we are talking about replacing a guy who was a de facto 2-down LB. Grranted, a very good 2-down LB, but a 2-down LB nonetheless.

The big nickle or the S who comes on in dime situations (Justin Simmons) looks like a natural and an upgrade from last season.

so, the D has the potential (and not pie-in-the-sky potential) to be nearly as good as last year. However, it's not good practice to expect a D to be historically good and I the D lalst year won multiple games on its own--which probably isn't sustainable.

tl;dr version: D looks to be fantastic again, but Denver likely needs better QB and overall offensive play

 
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pick 6 pretty much sealed the deal for Sanchez until Sanchez came in and fumbled (twice!) in the red zone. these guys are going to hand it off a lot and keep the seat warm for Lynch.

 
So I'm backing down from my above statement that the bronco D will be better in 2016 than they were in 2015.  The starters looks just as dominant as ever, but I was pretty disappointed with some of the depth play - losing contain, etc.  My prognosis of a better D overall had to do with camp reports of dominant depth, and that may not be the case.

Regardless - Siemian looked pretty darn good at taking what the D gave him.  He made one bad read and got burned on it - welcome to the first string NFL, kid.  That being said, he never challenged the D deep - I feel like he was playing way conservative (which isn't a bad thing).  his play-action bootleg pass to Green was a thing of beauty.

Sanchez gonna Sanchez.  He had moments where he looked really good - hitting some deep stuff, keeping the defense backed off the LoS, and then he goes and fumbles twice inside of 2:00.  not good.  My assessment is that Sanchez has literally no pocket presence.  Where a QB like Manning or Brady can easily side-step a blitz and just glide around in there, Sanchez feels pressure and finds a lineman to run into.  

At this point, Sanchez is who he is.  Siemian, however, has potential.  We really don't know how good he is.   
 
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