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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (7 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
- Start date
GoBirds
Footballguy
War daddies.....that's good stuff.
Sucks we are all on to next year....will be interesting to see how much Cousins cashes in. He definitely save you a few mil per yesterday.
fatness
Footballguy
If he signs a big deal here, either for 1 year or longer, and performs like this year he'll get booed like crazy. He's not making any friends lately.
Sebowski
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
Where did you see this? Only new thing I found on him is him saying he's finally getting healthy.And now this new news about concern for BOTH of Docton's Achilles
zamboni
Footballguy
Being an effective NFL RB is obviously much more than averaging 4.5+ YPC. It's about moving the chains, getting the tough yards, protecting the ball, and above else for that offense, protecting the QB.CabinFever said:
Kelley does all those other things very well. A Thompson type can complement Kelley for passing duties.
fatness
Footballguy
There's a chance Wade Phillips will be unemployed soon.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/02/wade-phillips-wants-to-stay-with-broncos-laments-being-unemployed/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/02/wade-phillips-wants-to-stay-with-broncos-laments-being-unemployed/
fatness
Footballguy
I saw a third hand report that "Gruden seemed to say that" during his presser. Doctson hasn't said it.
CabinFever
Footballguy
Per Chris Russell on Twitter
Redskins coach Jay Gruden expressed concern with Josh Doctson's (Achilles') health in Monday's season-ending presser.
Reporters present noted a palpable sense of frustration from Gruden when discussing the No. 22 overall pick of last year's draft. Gruden also appeared to suggest Doctson was having issues with both of his Achilles' tendons. Speaking Monday, Doctson would only say he was "feeling well." His situation is very uncertain.
fatness
Footballguy
Rotoworld
Rotoworld's only source is Chris Russell. I've seen nobody else at the presser report it. ("It" = BOTH Achilles being a problem)
babydemon90
Footballguy
I don't thin Cousins saved you any money with this last game. He's still upwards of 20+ mil. Franchise tag is 24 mil, right? Can't see any reason for him to accept a 16 mil a year deal, when he can get 24 mil for one year by standing still - and there isn't anyway he hits FA.
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Gruden:
On the status of WR Josh Doctson:
“I hope he has ramped it up a little by now. This is a unique deal. I can’t even guess for what’s going on with his Achilles, I really can’t. And I think it’s both of them. But the trainers are with him. I’m sure he has his own trainers [and] his own doctors, we have got doctors. Hopefully he can ramp it up, like you say, here in the next couple weeks and start running and moving, because he’s going to be a big part of our plans next year if he’s healthy.”
He said similar things last offseason, and you can't really blame him. He was treated like garbage for three years here. But what's done is done. It's hard enough for teams to get good deals on their QB's when they value the consistency and security of resigning with their teams. Cousins clearly doesn't care about that. That's not the type of player you want to spend big money on. He'll drain our cap for as much as he can get with no concern for how that affects the rest of the team. Meanwhile you have players like this:MikeApf said:
Or Josh Norman trying desperately to stay in Carolina or Brady restructuring his deal in New England every few years to help out the team. That kind of attitude does exist in the NFL and you kind of need a few players like that if you want to build a winning franchise.Sebowski said:
So to the first paragraph, yeah Cousins will get paid, but I'm guessing by someone else. I'd personally be disappointed if we spend more than $20M/year on him. I don't think he'll accept that and I think other teams will pay more, so it will come down to SMC letting him walk.BobbyLayne said:
As for who we get as a replacement, who knows. The good news is we have a pretty good front office when it comes to scouting rookies or finding cheap free agents who come here and fit in pretty well. That seems more valuable than top draft picks if you look at recent history.
But also I'm not convinced it needs to be an elite QB. I think Cousins did as well as he did because he was surrounded by a lot of talent and Gruden's system was a good fit for him. That will make a lot of average quarterbacks look great.
Final prediction: Cousins walks to some garbage team that wants to blow their entire cap on him and surround him with practice squad players and he learns how difficult it is to move the ball when you don't have 4+ great options to throw to. The Redskins find a rookie QB in the draft who may not be great but can serve as a capable starter. The offense still looks top 10 but we improve the defense and we look like an improved team.
MattFancy
Footballguy
So the first order of offseason business to fire Joe Barry, right? No reason for him to be back next season. Our defense just hasn't been very good under him the last 2 seasons.
Next would be to figure out a deal with Cousins. I think we end up franchsing him again. Listening to his interview yesterday, he doesn't seem all that excited about being here, so the only way you can bring him back, is to franchise him, IMO. I'm still not 100% in his corner, but we don't have a better option.
Definitely need to work on bringing back Garcon. Guy does it all out there and plays hard every single play. I'd take a whole team of Pierre Garcons.
The defense desperatley needs to be addressed in the draft and FA. Outside of Norman, Kerrigan, Baker, Smith, and Murphy, the rest of the defense is meh. Get some safety and d-line help.
We also need to look at adding a RB. No offense to Rob Kelley, who did a nice job this year, but he's just not the guy. Find a young guy in the draft and go from there. Chris Thompson should stay though and be more involved.
Lot of things up in the air with this team, so it should be an interesting offseason.
Next would be to figure out a deal with Cousins. I think we end up franchsing him again. Listening to his interview yesterday, he doesn't seem all that excited about being here, so the only way you can bring him back, is to franchise him, IMO. I'm still not 100% in his corner, but we don't have a better option.
Definitely need to work on bringing back Garcon. Guy does it all out there and plays hard every single play. I'd take a whole team of Pierre Garcons.
The defense desperatley needs to be addressed in the draft and FA. Outside of Norman, Kerrigan, Baker, Smith, and Murphy, the rest of the defense is meh. Get some safety and d-line help.
We also need to look at adding a RB. No offense to Rob Kelley, who did a nice job this year, but he's just not the guy. Find a young guy in the draft and go from there. Chris Thompson should stay though and be more involved.
Lot of things up in the air with this team, so it should be an interesting offseason.
msommer
Footballguy
Well, there is a lot of that you can solve in one off season.
Example with TEN, of eight active OL, five were brought in this year, through FA (incl UDFA) and draft. Mularkey said in the presser yday that he counted 15 contributing rookies on the roster. That's a lot.
You can get Safety and LB assistance in the FA. For pass rush also but if you are tagging Cousins you probably have to go with the draft. RB is likely through the draft but isn't this year loaded?
How's your GM? Because he needs to be reasonably good to pull it off, obviously
CabinFever
Footballguy
GM is now one of the Redskins strengths
Totally agree on every point. MF, get on the phone to Scott McG now and maybe offer him advice over drinks...or scratch that coffee.
dgreen
Footballguy
Two things I'm tired of hearing in regards to Cousins: 1) He's young and 2) He's been treated like garbage.
I don't see how he's been treated like garbage. The worst treatment I can think of is waiting so long to name him the starter in 2015. Other than, his treatment has seemed reasonable.
Having said that, I think Kirk is a good QB and still think he has potential to get better. I don't think he'll ever be great. I'm perfectly ok with giving him a 4-5 year deal at this point. I'm also ok with continuing to draft QBs to see if we can hit something there just in case Kirk fizzles out or if we need a cheaper replacement in 5 years. If Cousins doesn't continue to improve, then he's probably easily replaceable in a couple years.
MattFancy
Footballguy
Agreed on both points. Cousins is not young anymore. He'll be 29 during the preseason. He's in his prime at this point.
How was he treated like garbage? There was no chance Cousins was starting in 2012. Sure, you can make a case that he should have started out the 2013 season, but at that point, it was clearly Griffin's team. Cousins got his chance at the end of 2013 and was so-so. Going into 2014, it was still Griffin's team, although on much shakier ground. Cousins got a chance after Griffin went down and again was so-so. Honestly, going into 2015, there was no reason for Jay/Scot to go with Cousins. He hadn't really shown much at that point. McCoy had played better in 2014 than Cousins. And even early in the 2015 season, Cousins wasn't doing a ton to quiet his doubters. The last year and half is when Cousins really starting playing better. I just don't buy the, "the organization has treated him like crap" line. Why? Because they didn't offer him a huge deal last offseason? Nothing wrong with making him prove he can do it again.
I'm still not 100% sure Kirk is a top QB. Seems to me like he's somewhere on the Stafford/Rivers tier. Guys that are good, but aren't quite good enough to do it all on their own. Kirk played well this year except for some high-profile games (1st Dallas game, Panthers, 2nd Giants game). It seems this system fits him well, but he'll need to do more to get those around him to be better.
One thing that irks me about Kirk is how he doesn't seem all that excited to be here. Listening to him yesterday, he doesn't seem like he has any loyalty to the team. And I get it's a business, but at least act like you want to be here. In one breath he said he isn't trying to squeeze every dollar out of a team, but in the next says that it would be selfish of him to accept a deal that could hurt other QBs going forward. He clearly isn't interested in taking any sort of discount.
I'd love to be treated like garbage to the tune of 20 million for one year's work.
Oy vey...
dgreen
Footballguy
Two estimates I see for cap space next year are $63M and $67M, so let's just assume we'll have about $65M to work with. And another $17-18M can be cleared up by cutting Hall, Lauvao, Steiger, Francois, Paul, and Blackmon.
Norman, Williams, Reed, and Kerrigan are locked up for a while. Scherff and Crowder are still a couple years away from needing extensions.
So I say go ahead and lock up Kirk for 4-5 years, add 1 or 2 defensive studs and a couple role players in FA, and maintain the offense with interior OL and WR signings.
Norman, Williams, Reed, and Kerrigan are locked up for a while. Scherff and Crowder are still a couple years away from needing extensions.
So I say go ahead and lock up Kirk for 4-5 years, add 1 or 2 defensive studs and a couple role players in FA, and maintain the offense with interior OL and WR signings.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I definitely prefer Garcon over Jackson. Crowder has shown he has some of the big play ability that Jackson has. There's not many WRs that can do what Garcon does. Solid run blocker, goes over the middle, good possession guy. That's something you need more than a DJax, IMO.
dgreen
Footballguy
BTW, Cooley said Sunday was Cousins' worst game the last two seasons. Said he missed a lot of reads. The INT on the attempt to Harris showed a pre-snap look they wanted and that he's seen several times this season and Cooley doesn't understand why Cousins didn't look to Crowder (which would have been an easy TD). There was also apparently a play on the final drive that he had Jackson available for a deep TD but dumped it off instead. Cooley says Cousins even looked to Jackson but decided not to throw it for some reason.
Cooley also pointed out that McVay is up the box this season because a rule now allows staff up in the box to communicate with QBs up until about 15 seconds on the play clock. I guess it was previously just staff on the sideline who can do that. That gives McVay the advantage of a high view of the defense and can communicate all of these coverages and alignments to Cousins so there's no excuse (in Cooley's mind) for Cousins to have missed these plays. Cooley also made the good point that this rule should lead to everyone going without a huddle to get as much time as they can seeing the defense line up with open communications. He also thinks the rule should be changed because he sees this leading to bad QBs being able to produce since they'll have everything fed to them and it could have impacts on QB negotiations if you really can get good production from a not-so-good QB going forward.
Cooley also pointed out that McVay is up the box this season because a rule now allows staff up in the box to communicate with QBs up until about 15 seconds on the play clock. I guess it was previously just staff on the sideline who can do that. That gives McVay the advantage of a high view of the defense and can communicate all of these coverages and alignments to Cousins so there's no excuse (in Cooley's mind) for Cousins to have missed these plays. Cooley also made the good point that this rule should lead to everyone going without a huddle to get as much time as they can seeing the defense line up with open communications. He also thinks the rule should be changed because he sees this leading to bad QBs being able to produce since they'll have everything fed to them and it could have impacts on QB negotiations if you really can get good production from a not-so-good QB going forward.
fatness
Footballguy
I don't see any reason not to re-sign them both (Garcon and Jackson). Lost in the highs (6-3-1, Green Bay game) and lows (Falcons, Panthers, and Giants games) and incessant talk about Cousins Cousins Cousins, are the good seasons each of them produced. They're team guys, they play hurt, they don't want to be going anywhere, and I think one or both of them might consider this the best place for them to be. This system fits them both, and they're wanted. I'm not sure either of them will get a huge offer from elsewhere.MattFancy said:
Remember, if they're gone, we're down to Crowder. Doctson is just a rumor at this point and may be Malcolm Kelly. He may be great but he also may never play. And the Redskins run a lot of 3 WR sets. Why dump a load of money on Cousins (who clearly needs good receivers to be productive) if you take away his receivers.
At the beginning of this year and part of the way through it I didn't think I'd be advocating bringing back both of them, but it seems to be the best path for the team now. I'd feel differently if they were strapped for cap money. Cousins will be the big $$$$$ problem to deal with, not Garcon or Jackson.
fatness
Footballguy
I'd give Hall a shot at making the team next year. His body may not hold up but he's a team guy, he'll play cheap, he desperately wants to stay here, and the example set (by team and by Hall) in giving him a last shot would not be lost on other players.dgreen said:
I wouldn't lock up Cousins that long unless the price is reasonable. He's on a loaded offense and still 13th in the league in TD's. This year is who he is. Not the end of last year when he was on a tear, or the beginning of last year when he was close to being benched. He's a middle-to-good QB who isn't going to be more than he was this year.dgreen said:
The Redskins already spend more than any other team does on offensive players. That's why the defense is so bare. Spending much more on Cousins isn't good for the team.
dgreen
Footballguy
It's all in how a deal is structured, so it's hard to say what numbers I'm really for or against. But, I don't mind committing to him for 2-3 years (which I'd see as a 4-5 year contract) and paying him handsomely given all of this cap space. Sure, if it keeps them from upgrading other areas then it may not be worth it. But, I think they can sign him to a lucrative deal AND improve the rest of the team. Remember, our GM said he's not willing to sacrifice the rest of the team in order to sign one guy. I think we all agree with that philosophy. But, I think he can give Cousins something like 5 for $110M (numbers I totally made up and have no idea if they're realistic or not) and still address the rest of the team given their current cap situation. Also, keep in mind that I think Cousins can still get a little better. I understand you don't and I understand taking a position of not wanting to pay him $20M+ per season.
MattFancy
Footballguy
What's so disappointing is that we were sitting at 6-3-1 and coming off a huge SNF win against Green Bay. We just needed to go 3-3 to make the playoffs. Instead we go 2-4 and lose 2 huge games at home. We couldn't find a way to build on the momentum of that GB game. We lost the next 2 to Dallas and Arizona. Our only wins over the last 6 games were at Philly and at Chicago, a combined 10-22. This team choked away a playoff spot. Hearing some of the players say they played not to lose and were nervous is really frustrating.
Saw a couple things on Twitter saying Cousins could get $90M guaranteed on the open market. If that's true, I hope someone else gives him that.
Saw a couple things on Twitter saying Cousins could get $90M guaranteed on the open market. If that's true, I hope someone else gives him that.
dgreen
Footballguy
Cousins leading up to "You Like That" (2012 to game 6 2015):
Games - 20 (15 starts)
391-635-4450-24-27
61.2 completion %, 7.0 Y/A, 3.8 TD%, 4.3 INT%
"You Like That" game through the "How Do You Like Me Now" game (game 7 2015 to game 10 2016):
Games - 20 (20 starts)
486-699-5837-40-10
69.5 completion %, 8.4 Y/A, 5.7 TD%, 1.4 INT%
After "How Do You Like Me Now" (games 11-16 2016):
Games - 6 (6 starts)
148-222-1826-8-5
66.7 completion %, 8.2 Y/A, 3.6 TD%, 2.3 INT%
Those final 6 games, in totality, don't look too horrible compared to his "You Like That" hot streak. But, the problem was he was up and down. He tore up Dallas' D and was very efficient against Philly and Chicago (all on the road). Two wins in those three games. Then there were the Arizona, Carolina, and Giants games with a combined 2 TDs and 4 INTs in those games. Completion % down around 63 and Y/A at 7.3 in those three losses. QB rating in those 6 games were: 120, 77, 116, 78, 104, 74. Very up and down.
I fully believe that last game and that last INT won't play a huge role in salary negotiations. I think it would be dumb to put tons of weight on one game and one pass. But, those last 6 games might hurt him. I'm not sure I fully agree with the popular opinion that "How Do You Like Me Now" was some shot at the team and all about contract negotiations. But, if it was, it's interesting that he failed to deliver after making such a comment.
Games - 20 (15 starts)
391-635-4450-24-27
61.2 completion %, 7.0 Y/A, 3.8 TD%, 4.3 INT%
"You Like That" game through the "How Do You Like Me Now" game (game 7 2015 to game 10 2016):
Games - 20 (20 starts)
486-699-5837-40-10
69.5 completion %, 8.4 Y/A, 5.7 TD%, 1.4 INT%
After "How Do You Like Me Now" (games 11-16 2016):
Games - 6 (6 starts)
148-222-1826-8-5
66.7 completion %, 8.2 Y/A, 3.6 TD%, 2.3 INT%
Those final 6 games, in totality, don't look too horrible compared to his "You Like That" hot streak. But, the problem was he was up and down. He tore up Dallas' D and was very efficient against Philly and Chicago (all on the road). Two wins in those three games. Then there were the Arizona, Carolina, and Giants games with a combined 2 TDs and 4 INTs in those games. Completion % down around 63 and Y/A at 7.3 in those three losses. QB rating in those 6 games were: 120, 77, 116, 78, 104, 74. Very up and down.
I fully believe that last game and that last INT won't play a huge role in salary negotiations. I think it would be dumb to put tons of weight on one game and one pass. But, those last 6 games might hurt him. I'm not sure I fully agree with the popular opinion that "How Do You Like Me Now" was some shot at the team and all about contract negotiations. But, if it was, it's interesting that he failed to deliver after making such a comment.
fatness
Footballguy
I don't know how the cap part of deals works either so we're equally unarmed there. I just wanted to explain a bit more why I think he's at his peak now and isn't going to be more than what he was this year.
There was no steady progress through the year. The problems he has on the field seem internally-generated (choosing to check down instead of hit guys open deep, getting flustered under pressure, losing his idea of where pressure is coming from, chucking games away with killer interceptions). This offense was stacked, loaded, the best he'll ever play on. He's played 2 full seasons with full support of front office, coaching staff, and teammates. Drafts were centered on giving him more weapons. Yes, he's gotten over the yips of his first several starting episodes while Griffin was here, but he still generates his own problems on the field and is 29 now. He's not young and learning. And the team has already spent a boatload of money trying to make him better.
/done
dgreen
Footballguy
The numbers rarely mean what they say, even the "guaranteed" numbers. Even if it is something that "high", it's more about how much of the cap that eats up than how big it looks. The cap is expected to be about $170M next year. If we make a very conservative assumption that the cap won't increase for the next five years, that's $850M. $90M is only 10.5% of that cap which I assume isn't an insane amount for quality QB. And, of course, the assumption the cap won't go up is crazy. I'm sure it will go up so that % drops.
dgreen
Footballguy
Can't argue with much here. I'd like to see him with a better running game. I think he's had to work with less-than-average in that area. He seems to do very well with play action, which is kind of amazing since they don't run that well. And, yeah, I'd like to see him be more "clutch", but I don't think we can expect to just move on from Cousins and find a guy that can produce the way he has AND be clutch.
Several things I've seen have pointed to peak QB period being between 27-33.
Baffled by the bandwagon Cousins fans on the radio and in here. I get that no one called him the 2nd coming of Johnny Unitas, but give the man his due. He's easily in the top half of NFL QBs, and this town would be tearing the entire franchise to shreds if not for his heroics over the past two seasons.
He's well worth the franchise tag, and they would be stupid not to give him 5/100 (or is he actually north of that ballpark now? 5/125?). Don't count on them finding or developing anything better.
He's well worth the franchise tag, and they would be stupid not to give him 5/100 (or is he actually north of that ballpark now? 5/125?). Don't count on them finding or developing anything better.
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STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Im not trying to pile on here but really? I think his two catch-phrases are more memorable then any one play he's made.
With that said, if the Skins have an above average defense they would have won several more games and this is an entirely different conversation.
The NFL is such an exhausting cycle of teams attempting to reinvent the game on the offensive side of the ball when 95% of the SB winners are a result of good defense, good running attacks and limiting turnovers.
The Redskins are loaded offensively but what good is that if you can't stop anybody when it really matters?
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Cousins is single-handedly responsible for them making the playoffs last year and being above .500 this year.
They DON'T have an above average defense. They don't have above average special teams, and they absolutely don't have above average coaching. Very few teams win a superbowl with average-to-below-average QB play. The ones that do are the outliers with exceptional defenses.
dgreen
Footballguy
I'd say he's the 3rd or 4th best player on the team.
I'd put Norman and Williams 1 and 1a, in some order. Then comes Cousins and Reed. I love Reed and think he's probably the top route running, catching, and YAC TE in the game right now, but his injury history and complete inability to block (and the fact that TE is much less important than QB) would probably lead me to give Cousins the 3rd spot.
fatness
Footballguy
I agree, but much of the reason they have a crap defense is they so much of their money on offensive players. https://twitter.com/sp3cul8r/status/805887284872679424
Fair enough, his treatment has been reasonable, but even being drafted behind Griffin was not a situation he wanted for himself, and from his perspective I can at least understand if he doesn't feel any loyalty to the team. Whether you feel it's justified or not doesn't really matter though because this:
is how he feels about it, and if you believe he was given a fair shot here isn't that even more concerning?
You can ALWAYS put your cap space to good use. The money we have available won't be used to justify paying a player more than we would otherwise pay if our cap was tighter (assuming their price fits under the cap either way).dgreen said:
After Capgate a few years ago, Bruce Allen said the penalty was going to hurt us far beyond the two years we had to work under a reduced cap. It restricted our ability to restructure contracts. All those backloaded deals which essentially force cap casualties in the later years can be flattened out in advance if you're going to want to keep a player. Our inability to do that for everyone we wanted to created a cascading effect which I don't think is cleared yet. Even if it is, you can frontload even more deals or let cap space roll over to set yourself up better in the future. SMC will decide what Cousins is worth to the team. If Cousins accepts that price, he stays, if not, he walks. Cap space won't play into it.
I don't think this is true. I posted a few weeks ago about how I don't expect Cousins, Jackson, or Garcon to accept less than their top market price to stay here. Cousins has all but said that's his position and I haven't changed my mind about Jackson or Garcon either. Not that I think they'll both walk, but I think at least one will, and the other will be expensive to keep.
Sebowski
Footballguy
His record the past two seasons including playoffs is 17-15-1. If you think that's due to heroics, you are watching the wrong hero movies. He's Ben Affleck's Batman maybe. Like you're pleasantly surprised when he isn't a complete disappointment. He sure isn't Downey's Iron Man or Christian Bale's Batman with abilities to put entire franchises on their backs. Even succeeding with the likes of a Gwenyth Paltrow or Maggie Gyllenhall love interest. Ugh. Now that's some real heroics right there. What were we talking about? Oh yeah. #### Ben Affleck as Batman.
Sebowski
Footballguy
I don't think he's getting a pass. He gets blasted plenty. The only thing holding me back from being even more critical is that I really think continuity is important. Gruen is single-handedly losing games like a Zorn, so he gets another year in my book. I still don't love I'm though.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/03/hall-of-fame-announces-list-of-15-finalists-for-class-of-2017/
Some good news .. Joe Jacoby one of 15 HoF finalists this year!
Some good news .. Joe Jacoby one of 15 HoF finalists this year!
If we keep Cousins we should definitely keep Garcon. I've noticed that when Reed is hurt, Garcon often provides that mid level receiver Cousins needs so badly.MattFancy said:
Jackson is a unique big play guy and it would be great to keep them both. I think if Jackson was younger and less injury prone I'd say keep him instead but I don't know we'll get a full season out of him again plus I think aging is going to affect him more than Garcon because Jackson relies more on speed that will decline as he gets on the other side of 30. I think Philly is gonna sign Jackson anyway, so we should make Garcon a priority and hope to draft a speedster to stretch the field maybe late in the draft (think Aldrick Robinson type)
fatness
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
The last 2 seasons with Cousins and Gruden have been a series of streaks. 2015 was bad, until the huge comeback in the Tampa Bay game. Then it got real good. This year started 0-2, a bad 0-2, and then they streak to 6-3-1. After that they go 2-4, losing to some teams they should beat. The image of Cousins seems to be based too much on when he's on a roll, hot, and completing passes all over the place. The noticeable stretches of mediocre or bad play need to be factored into that.
Czaban today suggested the Redskins offering Cousins a 5 year deal, $60 million guaranteed, $98 million total value. That's the most I could live with, because I think that's the most the team can live with. If he's insisting on $24 million/year, then he can be franchised one more time or signed and traded, with the money spent upgrading other obvious team needs. The idea of letting him go seems panic-inducing but I keep going back to what Thom Loverro has been asking all year: "Could this team have won 8 games this year with Colt McCoy?" He thinks they could have, and I don't think the bottom drops out if McCoy starts while a rookie is brought along.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Considering that the 2016 Redskins were comprised of a one-dimensional offense, and a defense sporting less than a half-dozen Players on the entire Defensive Roster who would start on almost any other Team in the NFL, 8-7-1 is probably right around where this Team should have ended up. They won a few they should have lost. They lost a few they should have won. Sure it sucks how they wound up 8-7-1, in terms of the progression (6-3-1 to 8-7-1), but I think that's an emotional response that ignores the facts that this was never a complete Team from the beginning. Being a realist, I don't see a Team that made it into the NFC playoff bracket that I think the Redskins could displace outside of the Lions, maybe (with a healthy Riddick, I think they're better)...and remember, as the 6th Seed, we'd be traveling the entire Tournament, and road playoff Teams play with a formidable handicap...
...I'd be willing to bet a significant sum that were a post-Season article published, that polled NFL personnel executives, Head Coaches, and Offensive/Defensive Coordinators and QB Coaches, the reviews of Cousins season would be overwhelmingly positive. One of the afternoon shows on 106.7 guested a respected Redskins beat reporter (it's late, and I'm having a brainfart regarding his name. Mike Jones, maybe?), who made a credible case that Hall of Fame QB does not equal Franchise QB that I found compelling. In my defense of Cousins, it would be preposterous to put him in the same category as any of the elite-to-upper-echelon currently populating the QB position across the NFL, but, especially on a Fantasy Football message board, I think some folks forget just how rare a commodity that is. I think Philip Rivers and Matt Ryan are fair comps for Cousins. Rivers had a tough Season, but they were decimated by the losses of Woodhead and Keenan Allen, Ryan had a career year, but had the support of not one, but two NFL starting-caliber RB, and, when healthy, Julio Jones. Cousins and the Redskins offense/personnel fall somewhere in between...looking at this Team realistically, for them to have been contending for a Playoff Berth in Week 17 was no mean feat. I don't think this offensive personnel was anywhere near deserving the accolades being heaped upon it by some in this Thread. Let's be real: they lacked a dependable playmaking RB all Season (I'm talking in terms of one that opposing DC's had to game-plan to stop), the O-Line had it's ups and downs from game to game (it certainly wasn't good enough to make our RB's look any better than what they really were, Trent Williams had a 4-Week vacation, and Gruden/McVay used every opportunity they had to abandon the run entirely), and as for receiving weapons: Jordan Reed was his usual banged-up self, Vernon Davis wasn't consistent and was forced to play way too many snaps with no Paul and little Carrier to platoon, and they played the entire Season without a true #1 NFL WR - I love Crowder, but he's not starter-caliber in 2WR sets. I love Garcon, but he's a strong #2, at best, and he's not a good enough complimentary WR to play with a borderline #1 like DJax in 2WR sets either, especially in the absence of Jordan Reed, and playing with an ineffective afterthought of a rushing offense. Combine that with a Defense that did them little favors, heck, pretty much hung the offense out to dry, on multiple occasions, and I think that the deeper we got into the Season, they became an easier Team to game-plan for, and that's not necessarily a knock on Cousins.
The guy had 606 Passing Attempts (6th NFL). HOF-Bound Aaron Rodgers (610) is the only QB with 600+ in the Playoff field, and that was a dicey proposition that went down to Week 17, and the Packers improved across the board during their late-season run. Brees, Flacco, Bortles and Wentz are all playing golf right now, as is Palmer (597). Eli (598) and Stafford (594) are close enough to be included in a fair conversation, but both the Giants and Lions are inconsistent, and as #5 and #6 Seeds they're road teams throughout, and the Lions were essentially playing an elimination game in Week 17 (which they lost). By contrast the Redskins finished 21st in Rushing Offense, and more telling, 27th in Rushing Attempts. That's a working definition of one-dimensional, and hardly a recipe for sustained offensive success, and a Playoff run. I'm a slut for the run, and as such, I've read all kinds of stuff written by Coaches and Coordinators who were successful running the ball. A consistent theme involves continuing to run the ball no matter how unsuccessful it might be, in that at some point, it's going to generate some positive yardage, and successful or not, it's taxing on a defense, and as the game winds on, sticking with it wears down a defenses will and leads to a higher degree of success later in the game. Despite the high # of attempts, Cousins finished 7th in QB Rating. Rodgers and Brees were the only other QB with over 600 attempts that finished higher, and Stafford (13th) is the only other one in the aforementioned group to sniff the Top 10. Cousins also finished 3rd in Yards per Attempt (one of only 3 to finish over 8YPA), which is a strong indicator of QB quality, and in his cohort of 600+ attempt passers, including Eli and Stafford, only Rodgers(7) and Stafford (10) threw fewer interceptions than Cousins (12). There's a moderate correlation between # of attempts and mistakes. The Law of Averages clearly states that the more Attempts, the greater the likelihood a mistake will occur, and by all accounts, he fared reasonably well considering the load that was placed on his shoulders by both an unbalanced scheme and a lack of quality personnel in other phases of the offense (RB, O-Line), and an above average, but by no means terrifying, and injury plagued (Reed) group of receivers. Give Cousins 3, 2, or even 1 less Pass Attempt per game and supplement it with 1, 2 or even 3 more rush attempts per game, from more effective personnel, and the resulting percentages put us much closer to the statistical profiles of the more successful Teams in the NFL, and the consistent ratio/recipe for success.
All that being said, I'm undecided at this time about giving Cousins a long-term deal or another 1-year tag, but IMHO he's far down the list of issues this Team has to solve to populate the upper-echelon of NFL Teams. The defense continues to be severely underpopulated with NFL starter-caliber players, our most dynamic RB (Thompson) requires limited touches, and neither Jones or Kelly resemble solutions. Jones isn't who we thought he was, and Kelly is limited, and that's being kind. Far worse is the Gruden/McVay offensive scheme, which McVay himself stated that in optimal circumstances would involve a 35%Run/65%Pass ratio. Also alarming to me is not necessarily how out-of-whack it is that we've got so much invested on the offensive side of the football, but more importantly, what kind of productivity we're getting out of the pieces we have the most invested in. QB's are always going to cost money. At some point you have to write that off. You have to pay a quality Left Tackle. Is everyone else really earning the money they're being paid? I don't necessarily think so. Lots of hard decisions to make that don't involve Cousins. DJax and Garcon are tough decisions. Jackson's speed is truly unique. It's game-changing...plenty of WR play well into their 30's but not so much the burners. That wears out over time, and without it, he's not special. Even with it, he's not a true #1; at best, a 1A/B type. Might be better to cut bait before he loses it, than be stuck with him when the clock strikes...but losing him is going to require some retooling on offense because when he's on the field and healthy he's the only thing besides Reed that defenses have to game-plan to stop, and it's going to limit everyone else if he goes. Garcon is a hard worker, a good example/locker room guy, intense, dependable, and a good run-blocker, and a solid #2 WR, but I don't think he's a 1A/B type that would be the perfect complement to DJax. I'm very, very worried about Doctson. I haven't been this worried about a Redskins WR since Desmond Howard. That fiasco left a scar on my mid-20's that will never heal. It marked the beginning of the end of the wonder years...but I digress.
I'm still a believer in McCloughan, and I want to see how he breaks down the Season and what the plan is, going forward. Based on his history, I'm optimistic he has to see the flaws in the Offensive Scheme, and will address them in some way. I'd like to see him have a come-to-Jesus with Gruden/McVay based around the profile and success the Teams he's had a hand in building have had, versus what Gruden/McVay have so far accomplished with their approach. I'm all for consistency at HC as well, but if the Coach isn't willing to see the flaws in his scheme and adapt, aren't we just spinning our wheels?
...I'd be willing to bet a significant sum that were a post-Season article published, that polled NFL personnel executives, Head Coaches, and Offensive/Defensive Coordinators and QB Coaches, the reviews of Cousins season would be overwhelmingly positive. One of the afternoon shows on 106.7 guested a respected Redskins beat reporter (it's late, and I'm having a brainfart regarding his name. Mike Jones, maybe?), who made a credible case that Hall of Fame QB does not equal Franchise QB that I found compelling. In my defense of Cousins, it would be preposterous to put him in the same category as any of the elite-to-upper-echelon currently populating the QB position across the NFL, but, especially on a Fantasy Football message board, I think some folks forget just how rare a commodity that is. I think Philip Rivers and Matt Ryan are fair comps for Cousins. Rivers had a tough Season, but they were decimated by the losses of Woodhead and Keenan Allen, Ryan had a career year, but had the support of not one, but two NFL starting-caliber RB, and, when healthy, Julio Jones. Cousins and the Redskins offense/personnel fall somewhere in between...looking at this Team realistically, for them to have been contending for a Playoff Berth in Week 17 was no mean feat. I don't think this offensive personnel was anywhere near deserving the accolades being heaped upon it by some in this Thread. Let's be real: they lacked a dependable playmaking RB all Season (I'm talking in terms of one that opposing DC's had to game-plan to stop), the O-Line had it's ups and downs from game to game (it certainly wasn't good enough to make our RB's look any better than what they really were, Trent Williams had a 4-Week vacation, and Gruden/McVay used every opportunity they had to abandon the run entirely), and as for receiving weapons: Jordan Reed was his usual banged-up self, Vernon Davis wasn't consistent and was forced to play way too many snaps with no Paul and little Carrier to platoon, and they played the entire Season without a true #1 NFL WR - I love Crowder, but he's not starter-caliber in 2WR sets. I love Garcon, but he's a strong #2, at best, and he's not a good enough complimentary WR to play with a borderline #1 like DJax in 2WR sets either, especially in the absence of Jordan Reed, and playing with an ineffective afterthought of a rushing offense. Combine that with a Defense that did them little favors, heck, pretty much hung the offense out to dry, on multiple occasions, and I think that the deeper we got into the Season, they became an easier Team to game-plan for, and that's not necessarily a knock on Cousins.
The guy had 606 Passing Attempts (6th NFL). HOF-Bound Aaron Rodgers (610) is the only QB with 600+ in the Playoff field, and that was a dicey proposition that went down to Week 17, and the Packers improved across the board during their late-season run. Brees, Flacco, Bortles and Wentz are all playing golf right now, as is Palmer (597). Eli (598) and Stafford (594) are close enough to be included in a fair conversation, but both the Giants and Lions are inconsistent, and as #5 and #6 Seeds they're road teams throughout, and the Lions were essentially playing an elimination game in Week 17 (which they lost). By contrast the Redskins finished 21st in Rushing Offense, and more telling, 27th in Rushing Attempts. That's a working definition of one-dimensional, and hardly a recipe for sustained offensive success, and a Playoff run. I'm a slut for the run, and as such, I've read all kinds of stuff written by Coaches and Coordinators who were successful running the ball. A consistent theme involves continuing to run the ball no matter how unsuccessful it might be, in that at some point, it's going to generate some positive yardage, and successful or not, it's taxing on a defense, and as the game winds on, sticking with it wears down a defenses will and leads to a higher degree of success later in the game. Despite the high # of attempts, Cousins finished 7th in QB Rating. Rodgers and Brees were the only other QB with over 600 attempts that finished higher, and Stafford (13th) is the only other one in the aforementioned group to sniff the Top 10. Cousins also finished 3rd in Yards per Attempt (one of only 3 to finish over 8YPA), which is a strong indicator of QB quality, and in his cohort of 600+ attempt passers, including Eli and Stafford, only Rodgers(7) and Stafford (10) threw fewer interceptions than Cousins (12). There's a moderate correlation between # of attempts and mistakes. The Law of Averages clearly states that the more Attempts, the greater the likelihood a mistake will occur, and by all accounts, he fared reasonably well considering the load that was placed on his shoulders by both an unbalanced scheme and a lack of quality personnel in other phases of the offense (RB, O-Line), and an above average, but by no means terrifying, and injury plagued (Reed) group of receivers. Give Cousins 3, 2, or even 1 less Pass Attempt per game and supplement it with 1, 2 or even 3 more rush attempts per game, from more effective personnel, and the resulting percentages put us much closer to the statistical profiles of the more successful Teams in the NFL, and the consistent ratio/recipe for success.
All that being said, I'm undecided at this time about giving Cousins a long-term deal or another 1-year tag, but IMHO he's far down the list of issues this Team has to solve to populate the upper-echelon of NFL Teams. The defense continues to be severely underpopulated with NFL starter-caliber players, our most dynamic RB (Thompson) requires limited touches, and neither Jones or Kelly resemble solutions. Jones isn't who we thought he was, and Kelly is limited, and that's being kind. Far worse is the Gruden/McVay offensive scheme, which McVay himself stated that in optimal circumstances would involve a 35%Run/65%Pass ratio. Also alarming to me is not necessarily how out-of-whack it is that we've got so much invested on the offensive side of the football, but more importantly, what kind of productivity we're getting out of the pieces we have the most invested in. QB's are always going to cost money. At some point you have to write that off. You have to pay a quality Left Tackle. Is everyone else really earning the money they're being paid? I don't necessarily think so. Lots of hard decisions to make that don't involve Cousins. DJax and Garcon are tough decisions. Jackson's speed is truly unique. It's game-changing...plenty of WR play well into their 30's but not so much the burners. That wears out over time, and without it, he's not special. Even with it, he's not a true #1; at best, a 1A/B type. Might be better to cut bait before he loses it, than be stuck with him when the clock strikes...but losing him is going to require some retooling on offense because when he's on the field and healthy he's the only thing besides Reed that defenses have to game-plan to stop, and it's going to limit everyone else if he goes. Garcon is a hard worker, a good example/locker room guy, intense, dependable, and a good run-blocker, and a solid #2 WR, but I don't think he's a 1A/B type that would be the perfect complement to DJax. I'm very, very worried about Doctson. I haven't been this worried about a Redskins WR since Desmond Howard. That fiasco left a scar on my mid-20's that will never heal. It marked the beginning of the end of the wonder years...but I digress.
I'm still a believer in McCloughan, and I want to see how he breaks down the Season and what the plan is, going forward. Based on his history, I'm optimistic he has to see the flaws in the Offensive Scheme, and will address them in some way. I'd like to see him have a come-to-Jesus with Gruden/McVay based around the profile and success the Teams he's had a hand in building have had, versus what Gruden/McVay have so far accomplished with their approach. I'm all for consistency at HC as well, but if the Coach isn't willing to see the flaws in his scheme and adapt, aren't we just spinning our wheels?
