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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (4 Viewers)

5 Digits said:
Snyder and just about every other owner will pay out the full salary cap every year. The only way to get more money to the players and less to the owners is to change the cap. When a player demands more money they're not taking from the owner, they're taking from their teammates. This is why I thought Cousins' earlier comment about holding out to ensure he doesn't tank the market for other QB's was particularly stupid and offensive. QB's already command a higher % of a team's cap than they probably should, and even if not, he's still basically saying he feels more loyalty to other QB's than to his own teammates. 
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No they won't.  They will pay out the salary floor.  That's about 89% of the cap IIRC.  And they don't pay it out annually, they pay it out at the end of a 4 year rolling window.  Meaning they can hoard millions of dollars every year and let that earn interest, investment powers, etc.  And even if a team is at the Salary Cap limit, they aren't at a cash payout maximum because there is no such thing.  If they wanted to the Potatoes could give him $100M up front and pro-rate that over up to 5 years at only a $20M cap number per year.  He's not taking anything from any other player, he's taking it from Snyder's ability to squirrel it away.

 
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Owners, get your checkbooks ready: The next big-money QB deals

"The team's designated franchise player for the second year in a row, Cousins is fully guaranteed a $23,943,600 salary for this season and nothing thereafter. If Washington doesn't sign Cousins to a long-term deal before July 17, franchise-tag rules say it cannot negotiate one with him until after the end of its 2017 season. Which means, if they don't get an extension done in the next three weeks, Cousins could become an unrestricted free agent in March. It would cost Washington nearly $35 million to franchise Cousins again in 2018, and $28.8 million to use the transition tag on him. Cousins' 2017 guarantee means he would need much more than Carr to sign by the July 17 deadline, and so far the team has been unwilling to offer him the kind of deal that would entice him away from the promises of unrestricted free agency with multiple teams bidding next spring. The bet here is that he hits the market and gets more than $30 million a year on his new deal, setting a new benchmark for quarterback salaries."

If Cousins gets $30M on the open market next season, good for him. But, what team is going to offer him $30M/year?

 
MattFancy said:
Owners, get your checkbooks ready: The next big-money QB deals

"The team's designated franchise player for the second year in a row, Cousins is fully guaranteed a $23,943,600 salary for this season and nothing thereafter. If Washington doesn't sign Cousins to a long-term deal before July 17, franchise-tag rules say it cannot negotiate one with him until after the end of its 2017 season. Which means, if they don't get an extension done in the next three weeks, Cousins could become an unrestricted free agent in March. It would cost Washington nearly $35 million to franchise Cousins again in 2018, and $28.8 million to use the transition tag on him. Cousins' 2017 guarantee means he would need much more than Carr to sign by the July 17 deadline, and so far the team has been unwilling to offer him the kind of deal that would entice him away from the promises of unrestricted free agency with multiple teams bidding next spring. The bet here is that he hits the market and gets more than $30 million a year on his new deal, setting a new benchmark for quarterback salaries."

If Cousins gets $30M on the open market next season, good for him. But, what team is going to offer him $30M/year?
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SFO will have a head coach that believes in Cousins, a huge hole at QB, a very nice (as of right now) looking 1st year overhaul, multiple picks next year to bring in more receiving weapons, and most importantly a gigantic amount of cap room.

 
Hankmoody said:
SFO will have a head coach that believes in Cousins, a huge hole at QB, a very nice (as of right now) looking 1st year overhaul, multiple picks next year to bring in more receiving weapons, and most importantly a gigantic amount of cap room.
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...and possibly a top 3 pick which they could use on a QB that isn't 30 years old and asking for 30mil. 

 
Hankmoody said:
or on a RB like Guice or an OL to block for him or a stud WR to catch passes from him or ....
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Yeah, but if the hype builds on these 3 QBs everyone is in love with, don't they have to grab one and really start to build something instead of over paying for a 30 year QB when the team still needs years to build a contender? Or do you think Cousins on the hers next year gives them the start of a window for a Super Bowl? 

 
The guy asked if there was a team out there that might pay $30M a year.  I provided one that might, and Cleveland may end up in the same scenario.  If Kizer looks terrible the Browns could have a couple of nice looking drafts under their belt, still have a bunch of picks, and have a coach whose seat is getting warm and is a QB whisperer himself.

Whether they do or not is impossible to know.

 
Hankmoody said:
The guy asked if there was a team out there that might pay $30M a year.  I provided one that might, and Cleveland may end up in the same scenario.  If Kizer looks terrible the Browns could have a couple of nice looking drafts under their belt, still have a bunch of picks, and have a coach whose seat is getting warm and is a QB whisperer himself.

Whether they do or not is impossible to know.
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Just talking here. Not arguing. It is also impossible to know if Cousins will get out of the season healthy. Impossible to know if he'll win more than 4 games. Impossible to know if he'll throw more TDs than INTs. We are living in the world of impossibilities! 

 
fatness said:
I like to see guys stay, too, and I think Cousins is a decent QB. But he's gone already. Sure, he'll play this year, but only for the franchise $$$ and not because he wants to be here. I really don't know why that's not obvious to people. The Redskins have offered him $20m/yr.  It's been his turn to counter-offer for months now, and he has not. A guy who wants to be here talks with his agent who then goes to the team with "$20 is far too low and we're thinking more like $28" or some number. Cousins's agent hasn't done that. He's not even negotiating, he's waiting on the Redskins to bring him a shrubbery. That tells you all you need to know.

Let him get overpaid by some crappy team next year, or find out from elsewhere that he wants too much money. Let him play for a team that didn't stack their offense with "weapons" to help him pile up stats.

I think keeping him this year was a good idea, because this could be Gruden's last year. If they take another step backwards this year I think Gruden's gone (contract or no contract) and that would be the logical time to part with Cousins.

The Redskins won't massively overpay him, so his "leverage" isn't working. And I'm glad they won't. There are rookies, there will be vets available next year, there are trades, there is McCoy. We don't need to spend $25m/yr. on a QB who misses the playoffs and scores too few TD's.
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I wouldn't say his leverage isn't working. He'll make $44M between last year and this year, and is set up for either a huge contract or another $35M for one year on top of what he's already got. He and his agent are doing something right.

 
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kutta said:
I wouldn't say is leverage isn't working. He'll make $44M between last year and this year, and is set up for either a huge contract or another $35M for one year on top of what he's already got. He and his agent are doing something right.
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Yep.  Always get a good laugh when someone claims he doesn't have all the chips on his side of the table.

Cousins has played this perfectly, not only maximizing the money but not coming off as the bad guy from a PR perspective.  If the Redskins do tag him as Allen has insisted they will do, that's $78M for 3 years AND he will be a free agent.

Hard to argue he didn't play this perfectly

 
PinkydaPimp said:
We dont know this yet.  Its quite possible that he will not be great this season in which case it would have been a great move.  the reality is we simply wont know who won until we let the situation play out.
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Yeah, we really do. If he's not great this year, they won't pay him and Shanahan will which means he won.

 
DallasDMac said:
And if that happens and he bombs in SF because he isn't surrounded by a super-star receiving squad, then the Redskins will have also won.
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Well, yeah but they will be looking for a QB as well. The toughest task in the NFL. They could have unloaded Cousins for a huge haul, took a dive this year like the Jets are doing and been in position to grab a franchise QB. Cousins will give them enough wins that they won't be able to get one of the top guys. They'll probably draft Lamar Jackson to become the next Bob.

The bottom line is they totally ####ed up unless Cousins washes out over the next 2 years. His numbers mirror Drew Brees over the past 2 years at the same age. He probably won't keep that pace but I'll bet he continues to be a starter. Every team can't have Brees or Rodgers or Brady. But I would take a next tier guy and build a D. You can't build a championship contender without a franchise QB. These guys, right now, are positioning themselves to find that out.

 
lod001 said:
You really need a link to understand that acquiring a franchise QB is the toughest thing to do in the NFL? Seriously?
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Finding Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers is certainly tough. Finding Colt McCoy is really easy. Finding Kirk Cousins, who is the subject here, is somewhere in between and certainly not "the toughest task in the NFL."

 
Well Colt McCoy is no franchise QB. Kirk Cousins was simple luck that he was found. Had Bob performed as a mediocre QB instead of gawd awful, Kirk Cousins may never have been found. Same holds for a HOF QB named Kurt Warner. The bad luck of Trent Green discovered him.

The Browns have been looking for a franchise QB for over 2 decades. 
The Texans have never found one in their history. The best they have come up with was Schaub who could only dream of Kirk Cousins numbers
The Raiders just found their 1st one in 15 years.
The Bills haven't had one in 13 years.
The Viking haven't had a steady franchise level QB for over a decade. Best they have come up with in the last 20 years is Culpepper and he was only good with Moss.
The Bears best was Cutler after swinging and missing for over a decade. 

Yeah, tell me it isn't the hardest thing in the NFL to do. If you want to win a SB, you either build a dominate D and hope your QB can manage the game for a season and you luck into a SB win or you get a franchise QB and contend for a decade or more.

 
kutta said:
I wouldn't say his leverage isn't working. He'll make $44M between last year and this year, and is set up for either a huge contract or another $35M for one year on top of what he's already got. He and his agent are doing something right.
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Door #3: Proves to be average and no one gives him a big contract. Something more along the Glennon deal and has to compete. He is betting on himself here, which I think is very admirable, but it isn't a bet I would make after watching him play every snap he has ever taken. If he does end up proving to be an elite QB the Redskins will pony up next year. 

 
Wake up man, that ship sailed.  He would have to be Oswelier bad to not get a massive contract.  If he's average Shanahan is going to have faith that he can get more out of him in his system.  That's how coaches think.

 
I just don't see him being "average" this year.  Imagine if he moves into top 5-8 status with a big season. Will be getting a record contract (temporarily anyway) and not from the Redskins.  

 
Just a reminder of the important Cousins' stats from last year: He finished 13th in TDs, 15th in INTs, and 16th in Wins.

Edit: And he wants to be the highest paid QB in the league.

 
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Sebowski said:
Just a reminder of the important Cousins' stats from last year: He finished 13th in TDs, 15th in INTs, and 16th in Wins.

Edit: And he wants to be the highest paid QB in the league.
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Yeah, win total had nothing to do with the 28th ranked defense the Redskins rolled out. 

Win total equal or better than Luck, Brees, Rivers and Newton. Top 5 in passing yards and yards per attempt. Top 7 in completion percentage and QB rating. 

And he will be the top paid QB in the league at some point in the next year. I just don't see him regressing this year. If anything, he will be better because of his experience. Prime of his career. 

 
Sebowski said:
Just a reminder of the important Cousins' stats from last year: He finished 13th in TDs, 15th in INTs, and 16th in Wins.

Edit: And he wants to be the highest paid QB in the league.
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Those are fair numbers to use but I think you have to be careful using them without some context. Even the win totals are fair for Cousins imo because he hasn't been very "clutch" in his career thus far.

- As you point out he's a proven, better than average QB.

- He's under 30y/o..

- The salary cap is growing faster and when he hits the market it will be higher than when most of the other deals were negotiated.

- You have to factor in the pent up demand in the NFL for even an average QB, or even an unproven QB that you hope might be average but are hoping can be average. And when I talk about demand I'm not just talking about teams with no QB, I'm talking about teams with a QB in their mid to late 30's.

- IMO you have to factor in what "sure thing" QB's cost in terms of draft capital. That's assuming Goff is one of those "sure things". Would you rather spend an extra $5mil/season of your unused $80mil in cap space or give up what the Rams gave up for Goff?

 
efactor said:
Yeah, win total had nothing to do with the 28th ranked defense the Redskins rolled out. 

Win total equal or better than Luck, Brees, Rivers and Newton. Top 5 in passing yards and yards per attempt. Top 7 in completion percentage and QB rating. 

And he will be the top paid QB in the league at some point in the next year. I just don't see him regressing this year. If anything, he will be better because of his experience. Prime of his career. 
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Your fantasy league might give points for yards per attempt and completion percentage, but the NFL doesn't. 

 
lod001 said:
Well Colt McCoy is no franchise QB. Kirk Cousins was simple luck that he was found. Had Bob performed as a mediocre QB instead of gawd awful, Kirk Cousins may never have been found. Same holds for a HOF QB named Kurt Warner. The bad luck of Trent Green discovered him.

The Texans have never found one in their history. The best they have come up with was Schaub who could only dream of Kirk Cousins numbers
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Schaub and Cousins seem pretty comparable to me.

From 2009-2012, Schaub made 2 Pro Bowls, the team was 34-24 during his starts (missed 6 games in 2011), he threw for 15,627yds/90TDs/45INTs/64.7%.

Cousins the last 2 seasons has 1 Pro Bowl, the team is 17-14-1, he's thrown for 9,083yds/54TDs/23INTs/68.3%.

You can also argue that Schaub didn't have the weapons that Cousins has. Schaub was throwing to Andre Johnson and Owen Daniels. Cousins has/had Jackson, Garcon, Crowder, and Reed.

 
Sebowski said:
Door #3: Proves to be average and no one gives him a big contract. Something more along the Glennon deal and has to compete. He is betting on himself here, which I think is very admirable, but it isn't a bet I would make after watching him play every snap he has ever taken. If he does end up proving to be an elite QB the Redskins will pony up next year. 
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No matter how you slice it, the minimum he's going to make in his career is pushing $80M, and the max is much more than that. He's doing just fine.

 
Sebowski said:
Your fantasy league might give points for yards per attempt and completion percentage, but the NFL doesn't. 
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No actually. Have never played in a fantasy league that rewarded those. 

A high yards per attempt combined with a high completion percentage is an indicator he is an accurate down the field passer, not just a check down artist. Probably why his INTs are higher than you want to see (although not terrible).  

If he improves his play in the red zone, he will move into the top 5-8 range. Having bigger WRs in Pryor and Doctson this year could help along with his maturation process. I see a big season coming. 

 
efactor said:
No actually. Have never played in a fantasy league that rewarded those. 

A high yards per attempt combined with a high completion percentage is an indicator he is an accurate down the field passer, not just a check down artist. Probably why his INTs are higher than you want to see (although not terrible).  

If he improves his play in the red zone, he will move into the top 5-8 range. Having bigger WRs in Pryor and Doctson this year could help along with his maturation process. I see a big season coming. 
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I think Cousins' high yards per attempt combined with a high completion percentage is an indicator that he had Desean Jackson on his team. As a Redskins fan I am really hoping Pryor can have the same impact, but numbers show Desean has been the best in the game at the deep ball for a long time. 
 

And Cousins (and Gruden for that matter) better get better in the redone. Last year was completely pathetic in there. 

 
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Sebowski said:
I think Cousins' high yards per attempt combined with a high completion percentage is an indicator that he had Desean Jackson on his team. As a Redskins fan I am really hoping Pryor can have the same impact, but numbers show Desean has been the best in the game at the deep ball for a long time. 
 

And Cousins (and Gruden for that matter) better get better in the redone. Last year was completely pathetic in there. 
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Man, some of you Redskin fans are tough on your guy. Lol

Guess as a 49er fan, our QB play as been so bad since the days of Jeff Garcia, that a guy like Cousins looks pretty damn good. 

 
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Sebowski said:
I think Cousins' high yards per attempt combined with a high completion percentage is an indicator that he had Desean Jackson on his team. As a Redskins fan I am really hoping Pryor can have the same impact, but numbers show Desean has been the best in the game at the deep ball for a long time.
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Jackson caught 56 balls on 100 targets last year, which is below Cousins' average.  In 2015 it was 30/49.  Yes, his yards per reception was high (17.6 both seasons).

I'm not sure why people are so down on Cousins.  Is it the contract thing?  If he signed 5/100 tomorrow would he suddenly be The Man in your eyes?

Fact is that he's better than any QB this team has had since...I'm coming up blank here.  I can't think of anyone in my adult lifetime who was better.

 
tangfoot said:
Jackson caught 56 balls on 100 targets last year, which is below Cousins' average.  In 2015 it was 30/49.  Yes, his yards per reception was high (17.6 both seasons).
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So on 100 pass attempts to Jackson Cousins averaged 9.86 yards per attempt. That is higher than his 8.11 total for the season. No wonder they don't call you TangMath Lololoololol

 
Sebowski said:
So on 100 pass attempts to Jackson Cousins averaged 9.86 yards per attempt. That is higher than his 8.11 total for the season. No wonder they don't call you TangMath Lololoololol
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I acknowledged the yards per catch, and you ignored my discussion of completion percentage.  Just go ahead and admit that you suffer from The Grass Is Always Greener On The Other Side syndrome.

 
tangfoot said:
I acknowledged the yards per catch, and you ignored my discussion of completion percentage.  Just go ahead and admit that you suffer from The Grass Is Always Greener On The Other Side syndrome.
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The grass is never green for the Redskins. More diferent shades of brown.

 
Hankmoody said:
SFO will have a head coach that believes in Cousins, a huge hole at QB, a very nice (as of right now) looking 1st year overhaul, multiple picks next year to bring in more receiving weapons, and most importantly a gigantic amount of cap room.
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SF will also have a year under their belt playing for Kyle Shanahan while compiling a losing record.  Kyle Shanahan is a guy that few people like working with, and even fewer will like working for. If he brings a winning record that'll smooth that over for awhile, until he doesn't have a winning record. But it's unlikely that he'll have a winning record his first year in SF and it's unlikely that he'll convince anyone that "hey, he's a good guy, support him". He's a richard.

A losing record in the first year of a know-it-all first year HC, followed by a record-breaking contract for a free agent QB when they have needs across the board? Yeah, that'll play out real well.

 
And LOL at taking lod001 seriously about quarterbacks. He thinks Winston is a failure and Newton is a game manager.

He's FavreCo, guys, in case you don't know. 

 
fatness said:
SF will also have a year under their belt playing for Kyle Shanahan while compiling a losing record.  Kyle Shanahan is a guy that few people like working with, and even fewer will like working for. If he brings a winning record that'll smooth that over for awhile, until he doesn't have a winning record. But it's unlikely that he'll have a winning record his first year in SF and it's unlikely that he'll convince anyone that "hey, he's a good guy, support him". He's a richard.

A losing record in the first year of a know-it-all first year HC, followed by a record-breaking contract for a free agent QB when they have needs across the board? Yeah, that'll play out real well.
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Congrats on not even paying attention any more.  The guy asked who would pay Cousins if the Potatoheads didn't and let him hit the open market.  I was answering him with a plausible option (two actually).

 
fatness said:
 Kyle Shanahan is a guy that few people like working with, and even fewer will like working for. If he brings a winning record that'll smooth that over for awhile, until he doesn't have a winning record. But it's unlikely that he'll have a winning record his first year in SF and it's unlikely that he'll convince anyone that "hey, he's a good guy, support him". He's a richard.
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Who didn't like working with Shanahan?  Must be a lot since so few did. Lol

His past QBs obviously did, well with the possible exception of Griffin. 

 
PinkydaPimp said:
nope.  so be it.
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I'm torn on the whole situation. This franchise could really use a good QB. It's been far too long that we haven't had a franchise QB here. On the other hand, do they break the bank for a guy that is good, but not great? And also, doesn't seem to really want to be here that badly?

 
(imho)  Any losing team could potentially be willing to pay 30M or more for a QB.  Its not only from a need aspect (too compete).  Its also both a fan draw (ticket revenue) or too appease the fans.  I think the biggest thing that anti-Cousin fans need to consider?  Our Redskins could wind up over compensating to acquire a talented QB.  ala Osweiler

We're gambling at the highest level.  Luckily in some ways, I'm not sure a Dynasty team is truly built.  It looks pretty good overall, although for instance, I'm not sold on the secondary just yet.  But yeah, if we had signed Cousins way earlier, and it was a mistake?  I wouldn't think we could be in much worse a situation.  (Player morale, Confidence, Fan base, news reporters)  Pull an Osweiler, and that may be all she wrote.

Lined out above is a post I started, but opted not to finish..  While reading the current views, it occurred to me that we may be pigeonholing our stance a wee bit.  Glass half-full or half-empty.  What-if Cousins were signed as our !00M QB last Season?  Would ya view that lack of a late Season push any different  How about that Playoff elimination game?  8-7-1 sound like a satisfying Season?  Personally, it wasn't too long ago that I was quite enjoying my team playing with heart, while perceiving a need for an NFL caliber QB. 

Should we even want a QB who cant win a big game for us?  Seriously, this man is on camera shouting "How ya like that" or something.  But then hes reported as having interest in getting a payday in SF?  This aint like saying good bye to Brady folks   Lets move past this charade that the media has parlayed into a tremendous attention grabber..

This is the REDSKINS thread!  Guys dealt w/ the prior QB too long, too.  Its a position on a TEAM..  Lets find our MLB and/or at least our STAR SS, and see if they even like the dude, and wanna give all for the "individual".  Focus on building team chemistry.  Bottom line, This dude wants a payday, and I'm not too sure he sounds like the kinda guy to consider a paycutt for keeping a team together..

 
It can't be just me that thinks this is a dreadful press release that shines more light on the ineptitude of the front office, can it?

ETA:  At least it's me and Aznflyer14.

 
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Sidewinder16 said:
https://twitter.com/WillBrinson/status/887048311622037504

@WillBrinson

Bruce Allen says WAS offered Kirk Cousins $53M gtd. Barely above bare minimum:

2017 salary: $23.9M

2018 trans. tag: $28.7M

Total: $52.6M

3:36 PM - 17 Jul 2017
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I find to be difficult to believe in Bruce Allen's contract offer with his latest contract offer to Kirk Cousins when almost everyone know that he's a pathological liar.  I will admit that Cousins isn't top 10 talented QBs but he's in unenviable situation with low supply / high demand for premium QB.  

 
Are you really going to take the general manager seriously when he either  A.  Can't say the first name of his starting QB after all these years or B.  Calls him "Kurt" on purpose because of some petty issue.  Of course that petty issue being that he isn't RG3.  

Given that Cousins is doing a 2 hour show tomorrow on the competing radio station, I am sure that Cooley will be guns blazing on trashing him

 
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