CabinFever
Footballguy
If they can't beat the Panthers at home, they don't deserve to make the playoffs, no matter what happens the last 2 weeks. Just awful
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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter dgreen
- Start date
Yeah I agree. What a horrible showing tonight. Very disappointing. They really need to figure the defense out in the offseason and hopefully that will not include joe Barry. Offensively they have potential but still need a stronger rushing attack. Right now they aren't playoff caliber will really have to keep building this offseason
MattFancy
Footballguy
What a pathetic performance at home. We're now 2-16 at home on Monday night at FedEx. How is that even possible?
Must win game against a team that has struggled all year and we played like ####. No sense of urgency at all. It was like they didn't even care. Joe Barry has to go after this season. How can you justify keeping him?
Must win game against a team that has struggled all year and we played like ####. No sense of urgency at all. It was like they didn't even care. Joe Barry has to go after this season. How can you justify keeping him?
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Embarrassing performance. But they are who I thought they were.
Regarding barry surprisingly I saw something yesterday that said he would be back next year and that the team has bought into his Vision on defense. They better invest heavily on that side of the ball in the offseason. Seeing the giants defensive investment starting to pay off makes me mad.
MattFancy
Footballguy
The entire offseason should be dedicated to the defense. Maybe a couple OL and a RB, but the defense needs a ton of help.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
Then it'll probably be time for me to quit supporting the team. It is going absolutely nowhere so long as he remains coach of the defense. I have better things to do with my Sundays. Like scooping dog ####. And I don't even own a dog.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
I trust Scott so if he really thinks this then i am ok with giving it another year. But.... what about Gus Bradley as Defensive coordinator? He was with Scott in Seattle i believe.
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I totally agree with your sentiments. While I won't stop rooting for the team, it will definitely be hard to justify carving out time on a Sunday when it could be used for other stuff. Honestly they should have just asked Barry to leave all his stuff right there at the stadium and told him to never come back again.
BTW, on a related note, why the F did Gruden defer the kickoff. Because: a.) our defense blows, b.) we don't play well from behind. Why set us up from the beginning? I get the whole, "We want the ball in the second half" but if you play so much better and balanced with a lead and if your offense is much better than your defense, take the kick. Gruden's poor in-game decision making really irks me. He's obviously designed a potent offense, which means he's a good offensive coordinator...still not sure about him as HC.
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
I'm not a fan of him at HC but at this point, i don't want to blow up the team and make that change and force Cousins(assuming we pay him) to learn a new system. I'm hoping he will grow in to it with Scotts guidance. As you can tell i'm all in with Scott. Can we fire Jay and make Scott coach?
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YEah, I don't want to blow it up either. I would probably give Jay another year but jettison Barry. But I agree sometimes you make a change and it's worse. I do think the offense is decent and I sincerely hope we re-sign Cousins. Most football people I've heard say we should do so which makes me nervous what Snyder will do to disrupt things...
Sorry I am cynical and bitter this morning. :-D
MattFancy
Footballguy
I don't get the deferring the kickoff thing either. Our best unit is the offense. Put them out there first and let them get to work. Our defense has been awful lately, so why let them go out there first and put us in a hole? Kinda reminds me of the fade stuff. Seems like Gruden is just doing stuff to prove a point.
dgreen
Footballguy
I'd be careful with that. There's no guarantee the offense will just keep producing as-is. Remember the 1999 and 2000 Redskins? 1999 offense was awesome with a poor defense. The offense finished 2nd in yards and points. The defense finished 24th in points and 30th in yards (out of 31 teams). That offense was better than this year's offense. Defense was probably pretty similar.
That offseason, they went heavy on the D and didn't do much to improve the offense. I think they had the mentality that the offense would just automatically be good again so they could focus on defense. The defense definitely improved and were good. (Deion Sanders and Bruce Smith each had a good year despite many Redskins fans complaining about those signings.) However, the offense regressed. Brad Johnson wasn't as good. Westbrook was injured and they had nobody to replace him as the WR1 (as if he was a real legit WR1 anyway). Running game was fine but not nearly as good as in 1999.
In general, I think it's a mistake to think you can carry forward production from one year to the next. The league is so week-to-week that I'm not confident in year-to-year carry over. I'm still hugely in favor in of BPA in the draft. If that ends up being offense, so be it. In FA, I'd like to see some top-level defensive signings, but you can't just ignore the offense. What's happening with Jackson and Garcon? We don't know. And are we really comfortable if they both leave and allowing Crowder and Doctson to carry the WR torch? That seems dicey to me. And, as you say, OL and RB are needed.
Another lesson, to me at least, from the 1999-2000 Redskins is coaching. There's a story that Snyder asked Norv what he needed to take the next step and Norv told him to just get him the players. They did that (at least on defense) but 2000 was still seen as a failure. They were the Fortune 500 Redskins; spend a fortune, finish 0.500. I'm much higher on coaching than most people seem to be. I think it's VERY important. Norv was a great offensive mind but nothing special as a HC. He's not a top level leader in my mind. I fear Gruden is the same way. He clearly has designed a good offense and has been a successful OC. I'm not sure he's a very good HC, though. His prolonged reaction to the Cousins sack/fumble last night bothered me. Yeah, it was obviously a huge play, but he had this "We just lost" look on his face and such negative body language that has to filter down towards the players. Not that I'm a Pete Carroll lover, but I can see him doing some rah-rah stuff with his defense as they go on the field and doing something to build up his offense as they come off the field. I don't think you have to be a rah rah coach, but you have to remain positive. Gruden's kind of a negative guy when things aren't going well. We know he's ripped players in press conferences and his general attitude during games isn't very inspiring. I'd be fine with moving on from him as the HC. I'm a big believer in HCs being HCs rather than glorified coordinators. This could just be my emotions talking this morning, though. And I'll admit I know very little compared to everyone in the front office. Maybe Gruden is a good HC. I just hope they don't confuse "good offense" with "good head coach".
What a pathetic game plan. Really? You target Vernon Stone Hands Davis 9 times? Talk about deserving to lose. 9 ####### targets for the worst receiver you have? A season high = a loss. Someone should be fired and if the reason was because the Panthers are weak against the TE, they are really idiots. They are weak against good TEs. This guy is a pile of ####.
MattFancy
Footballguy
I still don't understand how we use DeSean Jackson. It's like if he isn't catching deep passes, they don't know what to do with him.
Cousins looked like he was playing not to get hurt. Get rid of the ball to the closest guy as fast as possible because if a defender rolls up your leg and you tear your ACL, your jackpot is gone. Jackson is probably gone and Crowder is going to take his place.
dgreen
Footballguy
Cousins has said many times "I go to where my reads take me." Good defenses make sure his reads take him to the shorter routes and not the bombs to Jackson or the 20-yard dig route to Garcon or the seam to Reed. My uneducated opinion is that "going to where my reads take me" works probably 90% of the time. It's a great way to move the chains and have a good offense. But, he's probably a slave to his reads which isn't helpful in that other 10%.
Asking for trouble if they ask Crowder to take Jackson's place.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
I'm with you on this trend of new quarterback's being slaves to their read. That's fine and all but like you said, a good defense will just give you the look they want you to see so they are predicting what you were doing on offense. Predictability will eventually lead to bad things.
(FYI - I'm not ####ting on cousins, I'm worried/wondering since it appears Prescott has the same tendency)
Carolina DC: 'Guys, make sure you give the appearance that Davis is open, he's our 13th man on defense.' 'In fact, leave him open, he won't catch it even if he's wide open.'
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Shhhhhh.....I worry teams will start to use this strategy on Dez "Catch & Release" Bryant.
Yeah, too bad you don't get an FFL bonus for throwing a good overhand right. Then you would have been in the money. SMH
One thing about Cousins. He's definitely a solid NFL starting QB but he's not that guy who will lift the team up when everything is falling around him, like Rogers or Wilson...he's just not that "innovative."...at least not yet. I think they need to re-sign him but watching this game it makes you wonder if he's the guy who will get you to the playoffs *if* everything else is perfect...
Interesting weekend. Washington fans rooting for Dallas on Sunday night and Bucs fans rooting for Carolina on Monday night. All for a 6 seed.So..... who's rooting for Dallas?
dgreen
Footballguy
Enough about next year.
Playoffs this year are still in sight. Of course, job #1 is winning the last two to get to 9-6-1.
Detroit is at Dallas next Monday night. If the Giants beat Philly Thursday night, that keeps the pressure on Dallas and could easily give Detroit their 6th loss. That's important because Detroit finishes the season against Green Bay. So, if Dallas beats Detroit, it's a lock (barring a tie) that either Detroit or Green Bay will get to 7 losses. One of them will win the division and one will be out of the playoffs (if job #1 is accomplished). If Detroit beats Dallas and GB beats Minnesota, then have to root for Detroit beating GB for the division.
That leaves Tampa. Tampa has two winnable games left against NO and CAR. They just need to lose 1, though, to get to 7 losses.
So, a possible path to the playoffs is 1) Dallas beats Detroit this week, 2) Tampa loses one of their last two, and 3) Redskins win their last two. Since nothing is easy for this team, definitely can't overlook the Bears. But, come on, that's the most winnable game of all the playoff contenders the last two weeks. And then we possibly get a Giants team with nothing to play for in week 17. Of course, it could be a Giants team playing for the division and #1 seed if Dallas loses to Detroit.
I'm all in! Let's do this!!!!!!!!!! And then let's blow up the defense in the off season.
Playoffs this year are still in sight. Of course, job #1 is winning the last two to get to 9-6-1.
Detroit is at Dallas next Monday night. If the Giants beat Philly Thursday night, that keeps the pressure on Dallas and could easily give Detroit their 6th loss. That's important because Detroit finishes the season against Green Bay. So, if Dallas beats Detroit, it's a lock (barring a tie) that either Detroit or Green Bay will get to 7 losses. One of them will win the division and one will be out of the playoffs (if job #1 is accomplished). If Detroit beats Dallas and GB beats Minnesota, then have to root for Detroit beating GB for the division.
That leaves Tampa. Tampa has two winnable games left against NO and CAR. They just need to lose 1, though, to get to 7 losses.
So, a possible path to the playoffs is 1) Dallas beats Detroit this week, 2) Tampa loses one of their last two, and 3) Redskins win their last two. Since nothing is easy for this team, definitely can't overlook the Bears. But, come on, that's the most winnable game of all the playoff contenders the last two weeks. And then we possibly get a Giants team with nothing to play for in week 17. Of course, it could be a Giants team playing for the division and #1 seed if Dallas loses to Detroit.
I'm all in! Let's do this!!!!!!!!!! And then let's blow up the defense in the off season.
dgreen
Footballguy
As long as Seattle can stay in that 2nd seed, I don't think it matters whether you're a 5 or 6 seed. I'd prefer to play Detroit than Atlanta, but neither are all that scary.Interesting weekend. Washington fans rooting for Dallas on Sunday night and Bucs fans rooting for Carolina on Monday night. All for a 6 seed.
His production with Jordan Reed vs without Jordan Reed is concerning. Not just specifically because of Reed but because it's evidence that Cousins could be a guy who needs a good supporting cast around him. So what happens to our offense if we pay him $25M+ and can't afford to surround him with the type of talent he has this year?
On another note regarding the talent on offense, all of Cousins, Jackson, and Garcon have made statements that imply they're not particularly tied down to Washington, and they all have valid personal reasons for feeling that way I think (Cousins was treated like garbage his first 3 years on the team, Jackson still has stronger ties to Philly than he does here, and Garcon wants to be regarded as a #1 guy, I don't think he's happy being just another read who only gets 4-5 targets/game). They might not necessarily want to leave either, but I get the impression we'll have 3 high priced free agents this offseason who aren't interested in any home town discounts. I don't know how that's going to be handled, or how it should be handled, just saying I expect SMC to be facing some particularly tough decisions in a few months and there's a huge range of outcomes that wouldn't surprise me. We could have a lot more work to do on this rebuild than people realize.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Well that sucked.
I don't get why everyone is so confused about the Skins' Monday night record, though. They've been a worse than average football team since 2000, and the average Monday night team during that span has been significantly better than average (even more so before Sunday night took over the mantle as the spotlight game).
if you take a .400ish team and give them a 16 game schedule where most of their games are against the league's upper tier ... OK, you still don't expect 1-15, but probably not that far off. Maybe 4-12 or something.
I don't get why everyone is so confused about the Skins' Monday night record, though. They've been a worse than average football team since 2000, and the average Monday night team during that span has been significantly better than average (even more so before Sunday night took over the mantle as the spotlight game).
if you take a .400ish team and give them a 16 game schedule where most of their games are against the league's upper tier ... OK, you still don't expect 1-15, but probably not that far off. Maybe 4-12 or something.
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All I know is we better take the Bears seriously. I saw this quote by Baker who said, "No way we should have lost to Carolina, yada yada" like the Redskins are some "superior playoff team." We need to get our heads on straight and look at Chicago as a serious opponent or we will get trucked again, mark that down!
dgreen
Footballguy
I agree with the general premise that we shouldn't be surprised about losing to good teams when we're usually not a good team. But, the stat isn't just about MNF. It's about MNF at FedEx Field. They're 2-16 on MNF at home where theoretically you should be slightly better! Over the years, they are a 0.500 team (79-79-1) at FedEx Field in the regular season. That means they are a 0.550 team outside of MNF and 0.111 on MNF. And even if we can make the argument that we probably shouldn't expect a much better W-L record, I think it's the type of losses and the embarrassing performances that stick in fans' minds. It's Vick and the Eagles scoring 59. It's the Jim Zorn double fake FG in a 45-12 loss vs the Giants. It's the pepper spray game against Philly and it's the Steelers fans taking over the stadium when we were 6-2 and playing pretty well.
At FedEx Field, the Redskins are a -111 point differential in 159 games. On MNF at FedEx Field, it's a -241 in 18 games. The two wins on MNF are by 1 and 5 points. Only 6 of the 18 losses are one possession losses, while 6 are by 20+ points.
I'm begging the NFL to spare us a home MNF game for at least one season, ideally two. For some reason, they keep "rewarding" us with these home games.
dgreen
Footballguy
Agree. I bet the Bears players are thinking "Oh good, we get the Redskins. We have a real shot this week."
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
Yeah, the home MNF game record is far more of an anomaly than the overall record since 2000. But most of the stuff written or discussed today has focused on the latter.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
First things first, I didn't mean to imply I wanted Gruden fired, though my wording made it sound like that. But I want Barry GONE. I cannot fathom how he is still around and how he has any support from the front office. He has to be one of if not the flat out worst DC in the league. I simply do not get it.
As for the "we can still make the playoffs" thing, who cares? So they can possibly make it to get blown out in the first round. Big whoop. I don't really get why simply making the playoffs matters when they have zero chance of winning a game if they get there. There is one goal, winning the Super Bowl. And this team has no realistic chance of even sniffing that right now. Zero.
As for the "we can still make the playoffs" thing, who cares? So they can possibly make it to get blown out in the first round. Big whoop. I don't really get why simply making the playoffs matters when they have zero chance of winning a game if they get there. There is one goal, winning the Super Bowl. And this team has no realistic chance of even sniffing that right now. Zero.
We've moved past Code Red into Dark Purple. Black is next. You don't want to get to Code Black.
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dhockster
Footballguy
Those are truly some remarkable stats. For all the Eagles woes, they do tend to show up pretty well in prime time.
dgreen
Footballguy
Good for him. He's lost 25 games here as the HC and I don't think he's publicly taken responsibility very often. IMO, that's what good coaches do: take the blame for losses and praise the players for wins. Looks like his quote still put some on the players (execution), but it's better than his "coaches job is done on Saturday" nonsense or how he's put it all on the players in the past.
dgreen
Footballguy
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
No stat said more about this team than what I saw on Monday night. Top 5 in offense salary. Bottom 5 in defense salary. I'm no Barry fan, but admittedly he is playing with less talent and with injuries they've dipped into the backups.
I'd be more concerned as to why the offense can't operate inside the red zone given all the talent. Is it Kirk? Is it the OL? Is it the WRs? Is it the scheme? They shouldn't struggle there, but they do. I'm sure the coaches and GM know the answer and the more I watch the more I think it's Kirk and the lack of a physical WR. I'm an unabashed Kirk fan, but with all his glorious stats he's not getting it done inside the 20. I don't know why, but I sense he pre-reads the play and the D switches things up on him immediately post snap. Making him have to throw it away too much or go to option 3+. I also think it's a bit of scheme. If Kirk struggles there, why not some WR and RB screens?
They are pretty much what we all thought. A .500 team making progress. But they need to address this D in the offseason, just like we all said they needed to do last season.
I'd be more concerned as to why the offense can't operate inside the red zone given all the talent. Is it Kirk? Is it the OL? Is it the WRs? Is it the scheme? They shouldn't struggle there, but they do. I'm sure the coaches and GM know the answer and the more I watch the more I think it's Kirk and the lack of a physical WR. I'm an unabashed Kirk fan, but with all his glorious stats he's not getting it done inside the 20. I don't know why, but I sense he pre-reads the play and the D switches things up on him immediately post snap. Making him have to throw it away too much or go to option 3+. I also think it's a bit of scheme. If Kirk struggles there, why not some WR and RB screens?
They are pretty much what we all thought. A .500 team making progress. But they need to address this D in the offseason, just like we all said they needed to do last season.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
While I have no doubt the skins are less talented than other D's, that doesn't dismiss Barry's role in their poor performance. Even a less talented DB should know where he's supposed to be at this point in the season. Opposing WRs running wide open down the field for a TD while two DBs stare at each other wondering why the other didn't cover him is inexcusable this late in the season. And yet we see it time and time again with this team. I simply don't see it happening with other teams, even bad ones, with the kind of regularity I see with the skins. And that is all on Barry and his staff.Brunell4MVP said:
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PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
That's right but I still expect them to fight for a win. Dallas too. They've learned that momentum into playoffs is valuable
CabinFever
Footballguy
So am I understanding this correctly, IF the Cowgirls beat the Lions tonight, then as long as the Skins beat the Giants next week (and they are supposedly resting some of their starters) we are in because GB and Lions play each other week 17 and so whoever loses that game will give the Skins their current 6th seed spot?
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
That is my understanding. What happens if Detroit wins though? And are Dallas resting players?
