I see it more as underwhelming.
The D better be better than the ‘85 Bears, because the offense isn’t scoring many points.
Last edited by a moderator:
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
***OFFICIAL*** Washington Commanders Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter dgreen
- Start date
The D better be better than the ‘85 Bears, because the offense isn’t scoring many points.
gocats
Footballguy
they have a lot of potential on offense with Mclaurin, Gibson and Golden paired with their other young receivers and TEs. The RBs of Guice, Love and Gibson it's a strong core of players. If Haskins develops into a better Jason Campbell they could be dangerous offensively.
Bottom half in the league in offensive talent (based on draft position). Maybe bottom quarter.
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
As someone who defended Jason Campbell constantly, if Haskins upside is better Campbell, things are looking bleak.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't know if you noticed but Lamar Jackson never even got drafted, so I was way off thinking that he might get over-drafted. Had the Redskins just drafted Bryce Hall at pick #156 and picked up Lamar Jackson as an un-drafted FA it would have been a so much better draft overall. Both of them are 6'1"+ and 200lb+ to compliment Fuller/Darby who are average to small DB's. Of course as another un-drafted FA I still would have loved if they had picked up Bandy from Miami, another small guy.
Morgan did go too early imo as I expected. But Fromm went much lower than I expected at pick #167. A lot of people seem to hate him but I would have loved seeing WAS pick him up at pick #162. Even if you didn't do that, picking up Anthony Gordon(WSU) as an un-drafted FA should have been a no-brainer imo. Especially with the size of practice squads increasing under the new CBA.
Hodgins went #207 to the Bills at a screaming deal imo. Having extra picks at the end of the 6th and anywhere in the 7th round makes so much sense to me. Not only do you get those last few bargains for almost nothing but you get to choose the guys that would otherwise be un-drafted FA's instead of having to "recruit" them at the end of the draft.
If WAS had extra picks late OL depth could have been helped immensely with Prince Tega at #210. What an outstanding value there. Need more picks. More picks. Especially with rosters sizes expanding under the new CBA(and taxi squads expanding).
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Interesting takes here on the WAS draft @ the 20:03 mark....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5R-V9NEf8
.... kind of boils down to "Well, we think Chase is going to be a great player and they took him at #2 just like we thought they would. So they get a 'B' grade". Eesh. I realize some draft sources are going to give you a very candy shell view of the draft("How much did I like their first round pick?") but I always thought PFF prided itself as being more in depth than just giving the Redskins a "B" based on their first round pick. The second best pick(according to them)? Kamren Curl(SS) in the 7th round, WTF?! Let's forget the fact that Geno Stone was still on the board. If either of them are playing while the Redskins are on the field while the $80Million-dollar-man at SS Landon Collins is still on the team something has gone terribly, terribly wrong. So Curl is a glorified ST'er at BEST.
So according to PFF they are giving the Redskins a "B" for using the 2nd pick in the draft to shore up DL and add SS depth in the 7th round. If you could hand pick a roster where those two picks would make the absolute LEAST amount of impact I would argue that would be the Redskins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8i5R-V9NEf8
.... kind of boils down to "Well, we think Chase is going to be a great player and they took him at #2 just like we thought they would. So they get a 'B' grade". Eesh. I realize some draft sources are going to give you a very candy shell view of the draft("How much did I like their first round pick?") but I always thought PFF prided itself as being more in depth than just giving the Redskins a "B" based on their first round pick. The second best pick(according to them)? Kamren Curl(SS) in the 7th round, WTF?! Let's forget the fact that Geno Stone was still on the board. If either of them are playing while the Redskins are on the field while the $80Million-dollar-man at SS Landon Collins is still on the team something has gone terribly, terribly wrong. So Curl is a glorified ST'er at BEST.
So according to PFF they are giving the Redskins a "B" for using the 2nd pick in the draft to shore up DL and add SS depth in the 7th round. If you could hand pick a roster where those two picks would make the absolute LEAST amount of impact I would argue that would be the Redskins.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm the guy that said over and over and over they should just draft Tua if they can't trade down.... and even I think Haskins should have better upside than Cambell(who I didn't hate).
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Well, not that they have invested another 1st rounder into DL.... does anyone else think they should be trying to trade Kerrigan in the last year of his deal or is it just me? With Young(1st rounder) and Sweat(1st rounder) starting at DE, and Ryan Anderson(2nd rounder) backing them up and Allen(1st rounder) more than likely sliding over to DE on run stopping downs it just seems to me that Kerrigan is an asset that they should cash in now. It wasn't a pass rush heavy draft so many of the teams that went into the draft looking for an EDGE player went home empty handed. He isn't cheap and it would be a one year rental, but that also means his new team would only be on the hook for that salary for one season.
- CLE(~$39Mil in cap space) This seems like the most obvious landing spot to me. They could really use someone across from Garrett and with their amount of cap space Kerrigan is a very affordable luxury for a new coaching regime. New regimes are sometimes willing to part with a player cheaper than you might expect. After signing Hooper for too much money and drafting Harrison Byant too high how much would it cost to acquire Njoku before they have to pay him all that money? Or how much would WAS need to add to acquire Greedy Williams?
- TEN(~$21Mil in cap space) They went deep into the playoffs last season and are planning on making another push this season. If they think Tannehill is worth $30mil/season they must plan on their 20201 picks being very, very low.
- NYG(~$17Mil in cap space) Trying to put pressure on Golden to make a decision, but if Golden was coming back I think he would have already been signed. GM trying to keep his job so no reason to waste the cap space to hold onto a draft pick he may not be able to use. If NYG trade for Kerrigan that doesn't effect their compensatory pick formula when Golden signs someplace else so that lightens the impact of giving up a draft pick to acquire Kerrigan.
- NYJ(~$17Mil in cap space) Gase has one foot out the door and may never get another HC gig after this one. Gregg Williams loves his vets and players that conduct themselves like a professional so I think he would love Kerrigan. One year savvy vet rental to give Zuniga time to develop and adjust to the pro game. Another case where the HC needs to worry about holding onto the coaching job more than a 2021 pick imo, he may(likely?) never get a chance to use it.
- MIN(~$13Mil in cap space) I know it looks like MIN is too far up against the cap to really make this happen but in this case I think a player for players trade makes sense. Both Rudolph and Reiff have bad contracts. They just drafted Ezra Cleveland very early, and even added Blake Brandel as a developmental OT so I think they would likely be willing to get out from under the Reiff contract. The Rudolph contract is even worse because of how long it runs. Stefanski and his 2-TE system are moving on to CLE so does Irv Smith take over as the full time guy? Making this trade frees up enough cap space to keep both Cook and Anthony Harris happy AND gives them a pass rusher to team with Hunter. There has even been talk of moving Barr to DE they are so desperate for a DE. Having Kerrigan on a one year deal allows time for Wonnum(a day 3 pick in the draft) to possibly develop. On the WAS side of the trade you are upgrading from Geron Christian(LT)/Jeremy Sprinke(TE) to Reiff(LT)/Rudolph(TE). Which pair helps to make Haskins successful? Sure Reiff/Rudolph are overpaid BUT Haskins is still on his rookie deal and the GIANT Alex Smith salary cap his is set to mercifully come off the cap before you have to make a decision on whether to extend Haskins or not. For that matter WAS is ~$36Mil under the cap right now so they might be able to slide some of the money in the Reiff/Rudolph into the 2020 cap in a restructure anyway. This deal makes too much sense on both sides not too happen.
Surely one of these deals could get done and it makes more sense than wasting Kerrigans last year under contract as a rotational pass rusher behind Young and Sweat, no?
- CLE(~$39Mil in cap space) This seems like the most obvious landing spot to me. They could really use someone across from Garrett and with their amount of cap space Kerrigan is a very affordable luxury for a new coaching regime. New regimes are sometimes willing to part with a player cheaper than you might expect. After signing Hooper for too much money and drafting Harrison Byant too high how much would it cost to acquire Njoku before they have to pay him all that money? Or how much would WAS need to add to acquire Greedy Williams?
- TEN(~$21Mil in cap space) They went deep into the playoffs last season and are planning on making another push this season. If they think Tannehill is worth $30mil/season they must plan on their 20201 picks being very, very low.
- NYG(~$17Mil in cap space) Trying to put pressure on Golden to make a decision, but if Golden was coming back I think he would have already been signed. GM trying to keep his job so no reason to waste the cap space to hold onto a draft pick he may not be able to use. If NYG trade for Kerrigan that doesn't effect their compensatory pick formula when Golden signs someplace else so that lightens the impact of giving up a draft pick to acquire Kerrigan.
- NYJ(~$17Mil in cap space) Gase has one foot out the door and may never get another HC gig after this one. Gregg Williams loves his vets and players that conduct themselves like a professional so I think he would love Kerrigan. One year savvy vet rental to give Zuniga time to develop and adjust to the pro game. Another case where the HC needs to worry about holding onto the coaching job more than a 2021 pick imo, he may(likely?) never get a chance to use it.
- MIN(~$13Mil in cap space) I know it looks like MIN is too far up against the cap to really make this happen but in this case I think a player for players trade makes sense. Both Rudolph and Reiff have bad contracts. They just drafted Ezra Cleveland very early, and even added Blake Brandel as a developmental OT so I think they would likely be willing to get out from under the Reiff contract. The Rudolph contract is even worse because of how long it runs. Stefanski and his 2-TE system are moving on to CLE so does Irv Smith take over as the full time guy? Making this trade frees up enough cap space to keep both Cook and Anthony Harris happy AND gives them a pass rusher to team with Hunter. There has even been talk of moving Barr to DE they are so desperate for a DE. Having Kerrigan on a one year deal allows time for Wonnum(a day 3 pick in the draft) to possibly develop. On the WAS side of the trade you are upgrading from Geron Christian(LT)/Jeremy Sprinke(TE) to Reiff(LT)/Rudolph(TE). Which pair helps to make Haskins successful? Sure Reiff/Rudolph are overpaid BUT Haskins is still on his rookie deal and the GIANT Alex Smith salary cap his is set to mercifully come off the cap before you have to make a decision on whether to extend Haskins or not. For that matter WAS is ~$36Mil under the cap right now so they might be able to slide some of the money in the Reiff/Rudolph into the 2020 cap in a restructure anyway. This deal makes too much sense on both sides not too happen.
Surely one of these deals could get done and it makes more sense than wasting Kerrigans last year under contract as a rotational pass rusher behind Young and Sweat, no?
https://twitter.com/AlGaldi
Ron Rivera just told kevinsheehanDC on @Team980 that the #Redskins could have traded Trent Williams for a first-round pick at the NFL Trade Deadline last October. Damn you Brucifer!
Woah...even though it may have been a low first rounder from New England...so much better than the way it ended up!
Ron Rivera just told kevinsheehanDC on @Team980 that the #Redskins could have traded Trent Williams for a first-round pick at the NFL Trade Deadline last October. Damn you Brucifer!
Woah...even though it may have been a low first rounder from New England...so much better than the way it ended up!
Guinis72
Footballguy
Gibson could turn out to be an interesting player. I was surprised they took him at 3.02, when LT/CB was such a glaring need, but he his talents sound very McCaffery-esque. I remember people wondering if he may move to the slot because he was such a good receiver & route runner so Gibson feels a little similar, and is bigger.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I agree the potential seems off the charts. But I would also caution against the "Charles Barkley" effect. For years the NBA would over draft college power forwards that were too short but hey Charles Barkley did it and he's an All-Star. McCaffery may just be one of those strange outliers, it's already been a crazy career for that guy.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Gibson is 6'2", 220. McCaffrey is 5'11 205. So Gibson a good bit bigger. I have never seen Gibson play other than his highlight reels. Seems incredibly fast for that size. He doesn't look big at all. Thunder thighs.
Honestly he reminds me a bit of Eric Dickerson. Similar size. Fast. The NFL will never use RBs like they used Dickerson, so Gibson will hardly put up those kind of numbers, maybe not even 25% of those numbers. I'm just talking the body type and the way he runs.
Guinis72
Footballguy
Yeah, he is bigger, which I mentioned, I was referring more to what they excel at. The coaching staff has even said he has McCaffery-like talents and they bring the same strengths to the game. Since we have the previous Carolina coaching staff, I would assume they drafted him because he fits into their version of what McCaffery did for them there. We had such big needs at other positions, hadn't had a pick since the 1.02, and chose this guy at 3.02. That tells me he was very important to them and their vision. He's our RB1, IMO, and he'll be the "McCaffery" in the offense that was being run in CAR last year. Is he as good as McCaffery? Probably not, but I do think he can be successful and a valuable fantasy RB, especially in that offense.
I see people having no problem taking Vaughn at 1.10ish in rookie drafts but Gibson's ADP seems more to be in the 2.06-2.12 range. Is this because people think "he was drafted as a WR so he'll play WR"? The Redskins drafted Gibson before Vaughn, he fits perfectly in the RB pass-happy offense Turner likes to run, they've literally compared the two players, they drafted him with their 2nd pick with huge needs in other positions, Chris Thompson is gone, ADP is old, Guice can't stay healthy, and Barber is a JAG. I think his ADP will rise as time goes on and there's a little more clarity on how they plan to use him.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
This is probably true. Rivera has brought in McKissic, Barber, and Gibson. If those are "his guys" I think Gibson has a fairly easy path to a large part of that pie.
Don't forget that Peterson pouted his way out of N.O. in just a few weeks because he thought he should be on the field more than Alvin Kamara. There's a non-zero chance he throws a fit when he doesn't get enough carries and Rivera has already shown that if you aren't fully on board he'll send you to the NFC West for little to no compensation(TWICE) just to get rid of you. And those were players at two positions he really couldn't afford to lose because of team depth. I don't think Rivera will have a lot of patience for Peterson or the M.A.S.H. duo of Guice/Love unless they are available on the field and completely bought into whatever role that is available to them. I certainly don't think he brought in three guys because he expects all these RB's to be active and available in week #1.
NorrisB
Footballguy
Where did you get 6'2'' for Gibson? NFL.com has him at 6'0'' and other sources 6'1''
ffmail4me
Footballguy
There is only one round mound of rebound
Chuck was the greatest. Still hate Jordan for not letting Chuck and the Suns win that title like they should have. AP has been nothing but pure class and a leader here. Thats gotta be attractive to Rivera and I don't see it changing. He also has to realize his standing in the league a little better now than he did in NO. Plus he's broke.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
It was the first thing I saw in google search. Link below. Did not research any further for other sources
https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk00vLXAlIIPqyPfYfjEmALNPh7Hd3w%3A1588276232261&ei=CCyrXp6wD8eEytMPlsiESA&q=antonio+gibson+weight+and+height&oq=antonio+gibson+weight+and+height&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIECCMQJzoHCAAQgwEQQzoECAAQQzoFCAAQgwE6AggAOgcIABAUEIcCOgYIABAWEB5Q7jhY-ElgqUtoAHAAeACAAVSIAawKkgECMjCYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwie1IOF9pDpAhVHgnIEHRYkAQkQ4dUDCAw&uact=5
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Agreed. But realize he's also had just about all the carries he could handle that entire time with the Redskins as well. I seem to remember when he left MIN he was a little taken aback by the fact he couldn't just pick and choose where he would land and he had to accept a time share in N.O. which surprised some people. One would have thought that experience would have made him understand his standing in the league. I'm not rooting against him, but there is definitely a reason 35yo RB's don't get a big workload.Vandelay said:
I mean, I think it did help him realize, along with AZ dumping him. He knows his options are very limited now. He didn't in NO because he hadn't tasted it before.
His workhorse days are behind him for sure, but I could see him getting 100 carries in a fully healthy backfield. And its not going to acrually stay fully healthy.
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
This Alex Smith documentary is crazy. 
Wise Old Owl
Footballguy
I also think NO was just a bad fit for AP. There are timeshares and there are the rotations the saints do which is a whole other level. Here are the carry break downs for the 4 games AP was with the saints:
Game 1: Ingram - 6 / AP - 6 / Kamara - 7
Game 2: Ingram -14/ AP - 4 / Kamara - 5
Game 3: Ingram - 14 / AP - 9 / Kamara - 2
Game 4: Ingram - 8 / AP - 8 / Kamara - 1
There just wasn't room for him and they took away Kamara's production trying to make room for him. It made sense for everyone when they moved him.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I saw this meme comparing Smith’s injury to Theismann’s and it is wild how many similarities there were.This Alex Smith documentary is crazy.
Both played for the Redskins, broke the same two bones in a home game on the same date, were both hit by a three time DPOY, both occurred at the 39 yard line, both games ended 23-21, and both injuries occurred when their Pro Bowl LT was out due to injury.
Theismann was in the booth when Smith’s injury happened. The guy had to have been having serious flashbacks.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Warford recently released and WAS has a ton of unused cap space. As long as the deals weren't too long the OL sure would look more formidable with Jason Peters and Larry Warford starting on the left side while Charles acclimates to the NFL(and hopefully stays out of trouble learning how to be a pro behind one of the best LT's in the history of the division).
I get that Ryan must just be stuck on his asking price and unwilling to budge, but I can't help but think both Eli Apple and Dre Kirkpatrick couldn't be had for cheap. They both have good size and would compliment the corners WAS already has nicely.
Ideally WAS would have traded down and built this thing through the draft, but they should just be filling holes at this point. Especially the holes that could stunt Haskins development.
I get that Ryan must just be stuck on his asking price and unwilling to budge, but I can't help but think both Eli Apple and Dre Kirkpatrick couldn't be had for cheap. They both have good size and would compliment the corners WAS already has nicely.
Ideally WAS would have traded down and built this thing through the draft, but they should just be filling holes at this point. Especially the holes that could stunt Haskins development.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
I'd pay off Alex Smith's contract by cutting him pre-June 1. That dead money would eat up $32M of the $35M remaining cap space in 2020. But get him off the books forever. Freeing up I believe $21M over 2021 and 2022. The team is not going to the SB this year, nor probably the playoffs. And no matter how hard Alex tries he's not gonna be a starting QB in the NFL again. I'd rather have the extra money in 2021 and 2022, after they know what they have or don't have in Haskins.
gocats
Footballguy
gocats
Footballguy
BoltBacker
Footballguy
They could probably restructure though, and I'm sure Smith would gladly take the money early.
Per spotrac.com, Smith's 2020 salary is guaranteed due to injury. Cap hit this year would be $32.2M.
If he is cut after the 2020 season, the cap hit will be $10.8 M., with $21.4M hitting the 2020 cap.
I don't think it really matters when you let Smith go. So the prime issue is to treat him right and help him recover as best he can. If the Redskins really want the cap hit in 2020, they can always cut him in December or January, before the league year ends.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yeah, I was responding to someone that was quoting @Brunell4MVP posting, "That dead money would eat up $32M of the $35M remaining cap space in 2020. But get him off the books forever. Freeing up I believe $21M over 2021 and 2022."Marvelous said:
I was just saying that was a viable plan, I just didn't agree with it. Once they passed on Tua the Redskins are now ALL-IN on Haskins or they will be starting from square one looking for a QB next year. Being all-in on Haskins should mean the team needs to invest to at least give him some semblance of protection on the left side of the OL.
Generally, when you have a new coaching staff I like taking the long view like Brunell4MVP suggests, I just think the Redskins painted themselves into a corner by playing the draft the way they did. Really they have put all the pressure in the world on Haskins and a day 3 OT draft pick to produce immediately in what is likely to be a shorter offseason than normal.
nittanylion
Footballguy
Oh, the times, they are a-changin'...?
https://thefandc.radio.com/redskins-escape-quinton-dunbar-drama
Under the Uncle Brucie regime, he'd likely still be a Redskin...likely because of a lack of 'fair value' in trade. Uncle Brucie didn't know squat about cutting bait and moving on.
Net positive.
https://thefandc.radio.com/redskins-escape-quinton-dunbar-drama
Under the Uncle Brucie regime, he'd likely still be a Redskin...likely because of a lack of 'fair value' in trade. Uncle Brucie didn't know squat about cutting bait and moving on.
Net positive.
fatness
Footballguy
Been away while so I'm reacting to some older posts for a bit.
His arms are too short and he cannot play tackle in the NFL. The Skins wantedd badly to say he was drafted to be a tackle to justify his draft position but IIRC he was the first player in training camp whose position was switched (to guard) because he was so inept at tackle that early on. To his credit he's an all-pro (and to me overrated but still good) guard when he's not hurt.
fatness
Footballguy
I did not read the article which may well have been a good one, but they won 3 games last year. They're not getting better yet.
However, getting rid of Bruce Allen is a gigantic plus since personnel-wise and chain-of-command-wise he utterly sank the team. They should have fired him when he sold the "uncapped season" idea to Snyder with the idea that they'd go to court to fight any blowback. While we all feel the NFL crapped on the Skins the fact is that every other team in the league knew what Bruce Allen did not. That's grounds for firing.
And getting rid of Gruden is a big plus as well. He was lazy and undisciplined and stubborn and insecure and his teams showed it.
So they'll likely get better this year. It just hasn't happened yet. Better drafting should equal better performance.
fatness
Footballguy
I see this draft as a risky one. Gibson, Charles, and Gandy-Golden all need to be on the field a good bit this year for it to be a successful draft.
fatness
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
I'd work out an injury settlement with him. Something human, taking his salary partly into account, but a settlement. I don't think he's ready to try real NFL football yet but we've had a lot of time of "Alex Smith's recovery is amazing so far" and when is it time for him to be on a field practicing?
Where I'm headed with that is that I don't think Alex Smith will, when the time comes, choose to play any more NFL football. His leg is held together with bone from a cadaver and with metal. Nobody in their right mind will ever try to play NFL football with a leg like that and Alex Smith is a smart man. That's the decision he'll eventually make. So it's time to start talk of "hey, if you don't play again we'd like to do this instead" in a human way. His future needs to be decided this year.
fatness
Footballguy
I'll do the defense another time, but they're better than the offense. And don't forget that John Allen can play DE. I think we may see a lot of that this year.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
That was my gripe. It's not that these players have no upside. It just looked more like the type of draft a playoff team might have if they were trying to put their roster over the top more than a team that is more or less rebuilding from the ground up. If you have solid guys all across your roster and you are trying to add pieces that could be "special" then this draft makes more sense but that simply isn't the situation WAS is in even if they weren't completely changing the entire offensive and defensive schemes.fatness said:
For instance just those three picks...
Josh Jones(LT) instead of Gibson
Anthony McFarland(RB) instead of Charles
Bryce Hall(CB) instead of Gandy-Golden
They still could have drafted at least one very good WR with pick #156 or later. Any one of Tyler Johnson, Quintez Cephus, James Procher, or Donavon Peoples-Jones for instance.
Given the current depth chart in WAS Jones and Hall would have logged MAJOR snaps as a rookie and would have been a big upgrade on what they have now. Will Gibson even play enough snaps to make him anything more than a gadget player? If Charles couldn't keep his head on straight in the very, very structured environment of a top college program what will he do when he's given a lot of $ and turned loose to act like an adult? I actually like the Gandy-Golden pick but there were just a ton of good WR's left on the board at the time that pick was made just as well all knew there would be. IMO they would have been better served using a 5th/6th or maybe even a 6th/7th on two WR instead of one. I just felt like the CB's available after Hall(or Robertson) made that position a much bigger priority with the 4th round pick.
Realistically in most drafts, you're lucky to have 2-3 players become valuable contributors. I have zero issue with taking a swing at big upside with Gibson, AGG, or Charles. We need offensive weaponry in the worst way. Chase looks like a sure thing so as long as one of these guys sticks you're shooting par. And if even one of the day 3 guys can become a player getting snaps a couple years from now, this draft goes down as a win.
Skins have stocked the roster with safer, mediocre types for years. We need to find difference makers. You can get your Ryan Anderson and Spencer Long type roster fillers in free agency.
Skins have stocked the roster with safer, mediocre types for years. We need to find difference makers. You can get your Ryan Anderson and Spencer Long type roster fillers in free agency.
Look, I think these guys are intriguing, but in no world would I call any of them "very good". They've all got warts but also have a lottery ticket's chance of turning into a prince if you kiss them in the right spot.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
??? Couldn't you say that about any of the WR's rated in the top 4 or so? After Lamb, Jeudy, Ruggs, and Jefferson they all have a few questions but that doesn't mean they lack talent.
I think all the guys on my list have a very good chance of competing with Harmon(who I also like btw) and possibly beating him out as the #2 WR on the team. IMO those guys have just as good a chance of panning out as a solid part of the passing game as Gandy-Golden. There are serious concerns if he will ever be able to create separation at the pro level. Sure, if he were paired with a Rivers/Winston type QB that will just throw it up to a receiver even when he's in tight coverage he'd have a better chance at success but he's far, far from a sure thing in my book. Seems like a cross between Laquon Treadwell and Kelvin Benjamin to me, maybe a poor mans version of the two. Gandy-Golden is very good when it comes to fighting for the ball and jumping over a defender but it would be tough for anyone to convince me he doesn't have warts to his game as well.
If you don't think any of the guys I mentioned are "very good".... do you think Gandy-Golden is?
Any WR that doesn't go in the first three rounds is already a serious long shot. If you're gonna gamble on one panning out, a 6'4 small school guy who put up really good numbers is a better route than some pedestrian performer from a bigger conference. The only guy in your list who interests me in the slightest is Tyler Johnson and for whatever reason, the NFL hates him. I really liked his tape but the smoke was coming since the Senior Bowl absence.
I suppose it's all relative. Every one of the guys you talked about is an amazing athlete and godlike, if you were to compare them to me.
But when you are comparing them to the others who have significantly more draft capital, no they aren't Very Good. Maybe Above Average, maybe not. But they aren't expected to be, because 32 teams let them go many times over.
They're probably all on par with Gandy Golden in the sense that they are all massive long shots to be fantasy relevent ever.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I'm not sure I agree, but let's say that you are correct.
If a player drafted on day 3 is truly a long shot would you say that player has a better chance to make the final roster if they can contribute on special teams? And if that was the case then do you think Bryce Hall or Gandy-Golden has a better chance of being a better ST contributor to give them a better chance at making the final roster?
I'm saying a long shot to become some level of difference maker, not just hang on the roster. I'm tired of them drafting low ceiling guys over the years just to fill the roster. You can get back of the roster/special teams contributors in free agency. Much rather spend mid round picks on guys who at least have the physical tools.
gocats
Footballguy
yeah it will be interesting to see how they use Gibson, Skins kinda needed a receiver more than a RB. Moses is the worst starter on the team guy is an absolute turnstile 11th in penalties and allowed 5 sacks, Cornelius Lucas was a good tackle for the Bears allowing just 1 sack no penalties. Roullier is a decent center. Schweitzer only allowed 2 sacks last year hoping he's equivalent to Flowers. I think you're underestimating Caleb Wilson he's a better TE than Devin Asiasi who went in the third, not as good of a blocker but a much better receiver.
Last edited by a moderator:
From what I have read, all three are talented but raw players. And in Charles case, also off the field issues.
I am sure Rivera has a lot of say in the draft board since Smith has talked about a team approach to everything. It looks like Rivera wants raw, talented players who he believes he can coach into NFL players.
Also, it is not preordained that these guys will or will not become good players. They may need the right coach, right environment, and/or the right scheme to get them to be good players.
I think the Redskins will be depending on a lot of unproven talent. This is probably expected, with a new coaching staff and coming off a 3 win season.
They definitely need Haskins to keep developing and someone to emerge at LT. Otherwise, we could be talking about draft position in October.
gocats
Footballguy
Scherffs arms are 33 3/8 which is longer than Saadiq Charles and the same length as Ezra Cleveland
https://www.nfl.com/players/brandon-scherff/
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/ezra-cleveland/3219434c-4567-0117-4b64-f3ef088b9fb5
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/saahdiq-charles/32194348-4159-6597-92df-2c5eba7d2e50
