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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2011 Off-Season Thread (2 Viewers)

The trade was conditional and the Redskins are taking a look at former Rams' linebacker Hall Davis. Davis, who stands 6-foot-4, 273 pounds is a rookie out of Louisiana-Lafeyette. The Rams listed him as a defensive end, though Shanahan identified him as a linebacker.

"We'll get a chance to look at him over the next couple of days," Shanahan said.

Asked why the team parted ways with Morris, Shanahan said :"He wasn't going to make our team."
Reid and Maese
Hall was St. Louis’ fifth-round pick from Louisiana-Lafayette. At 6-foot-6, 262 pounds, the Rams’ website lists him as a defensive end, but Shanahan referred to him as a linebacker. In three preseason games, he has three tackles and two sacks.
CSN WashingtonHow many sacks did the Redskins have in 3 preseason games?

 
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Interested in the homers take on this Q:

What will be the respective roles of Cooley and Davis?

TIA
They'll both play a lot, since they're 2 of the 3 best receivers on the team. Neither one is a great blocker but they're both getting better at it. During training camp both have looked good, especially Davis. Cooley has been running mid-range possession-type routes and Davis has run deeper routes, if a training camp pattern means anything in the regular season.
 
I wouldn't read too much into Devin sitting as Shanahan has a history of using preseason games to look at players he's not settled on yet. Devin is still probably the Skins WR2 as only Armstrong and Galloway (at times) have challenged to complement SMoss. It looks like Armstrong will probably make the team, which would be the best story out of Washington - a personable young man with ability, speed & upside. I wished they had the parts to trade for VJax, who would be a great fit for him and the Skins, but, IMO, they have too many aged average players to pull it off.
What leads you to believe that Thomas is the Redskins WR2? He is not listed there on the depth chart. He has not played a single down with the starters and frequently not with the 2nd stringers. All the data points to Thomas being much closer to being on the bubble than a starter.
Marvelous, I'm watching different games than you are -- Thomas played with the 1st team in pre weeks 1 and 2 and played reasonably well (9-78-1 in limited # of quarters.) Having said that, I don't know whether Thomas has an attainable upside. Armstrong is the standout of the preseason and IMO should be WR2 who warrants attention for owners in deep leagues and a must see for dynasty owners. Also, he's an affable young man that you can't help but root for. A rarity these days.

Unfortunately for the Skins, Kelly got hurt again today and will probably be a cut victim (may have been cut w/o the injury.) This enhances Armstrong and Thomas' placement, but it all revolves around McNabb's health (questionable for the opener). From Redskin Park I don't sense the gloom by some re: Thomas. Another WR to possibly consider is Roydell. The drama of "bring you playbook" week.

 
So now what with Malcolm Kelly?Well, the Redskins have three choices: Keep him on the active roster and hope his sore hamstring improves, release him or put him on the season-ending injured reserve list.That's it.
Why isn't he eligible for PUP? Are they past some deadline or something?
I'm too lazy to look it up but I think there is a rule if you practice past a certain point in the pre-season you aren't eligible for the PUP list.
 
Why isn't he eligible for PUP? Are they past some deadline or something?
I should have posted a link with that post. Here it is.

The Redskins cannot list Kelly as physically unable to perform because he did not begin the season on the PUP list, so it now appears Kelly is on shaky ground. Shanahan believes wide receivers must be available to practice to be effective. Kelly has been slowed because of injuries since he joined the Redskins.
On Tuesday, Washington must cut five players. The 53-man roster must be set Saturday. The Redskins already have paid Kelly almost $1.95 million in salary and bonuses. An injury settlement would seem to be the most likely result after Kelly's latest mishap, which Coach Mike Shanahan described as a "setback."
If Shanahan still believes in Kelly, he could instruct General Manager Bruce Allen to assign the former Oklahoma standout to the season-ending injured-reserve list.
 
Why isn't he eligible for PUP? Are they past some deadline or something?
I should have posted a link with that post. Here it is.

The Redskins cannot list Kelly as physically unable to perform because he did not begin the season on the PUP list, so it now appears Kelly is on shaky ground. Shanahan believes wide receivers must be available to practice to be effective. Kelly has been slowed because of injuries since he joined the Redskins.
On Tuesday, Washington must cut five players. The 53-man roster must be set Saturday. The Redskins already have paid Kelly almost $1.95 million in salary and bonuses. An injury settlement would seem to be the most likely result after Kelly's latest mishap, which Coach Mike Shanahan described as a "setback."
If Shanahan still believes in Kelly, he could instruct General Manager Bruce Allen to assign the former Oklahoma standout to the season-ending injured-reserve list.
Thanks. He's definitely not going to make the roster in a wait-and-see move. Shanny seems to like him so I'd predict IR for him but wouldn't be shocked with a cut.
 
Regarding Kelly being placed on IR, that means he still has to count towards the 53 man roster limit right? And after placing him on IR then they can sign another player, correct?

Or do players placed on IR not count towards the 53 man limit?

 
Regarding Kelly being placed on IR, that means he still has to count towards the 53 man roster limit right? And after placing him on IR then they can sign another player, correct?Or do players placed on IR not count towards the 53 man limit?
They don't count against the 53-man roster.
 
You have to wonder how many former draft picks will be cut this week. Could be as many as four: Kelly, Devin Thomas, Jeremy Jarmon and Justin Tryon. Gut feeling is at least two of those four will be gone. And don’t be surprised if the Redskins try to trade them first. The only one who could yield anything is Jarmon, simply because with him it’s a matter of being a poor fit in a 3-4 more than anything. But once you start offering guys, teams know they’ll likely be cut and will just wait.

And now with TE Dennis Morris traded to St. Louis (for an undisclosed draft pick), there’s a good chance only two draft picks make the roster: LT Trent Williams and LB Perry Riley. I’d be a little surprised if this is the case, but let’s say only three make the roster. Is that a good thing for an aging team? That said, if you’ve seen practice, it would be hard to make a case that more than three should be on the 53-man squad.
John Keim
 
You have to wonder how many former draft picks will be cut this week. Could be as many as four: Kelly, Devin Thomas, Jeremy Jarmon and Justin Tryon. Gut feeling is at least two of those four will be gone. And don’t be surprised if the Redskins try to trade them first. The only one who could yield anything is Jarmon, simply because with him it’s a matter of being a poor fit in a 3-4 more than anything. But once you start offering guys, teams know they’ll likely be cut and will just wait.

And now with TE Dennis Morris traded to St. Louis (for an undisclosed draft pick), there’s a good chance only two draft picks make the roster: LT Trent Williams and LB Perry Riley. I’d be a little surprised if this is the case, but let’s say only three make the roster. Is that a good thing for an aging team? That said, if you’ve seen practice, it would be hard to make a case that more than three should be on the 53-man squad.
John Keim
Chris Russell predicted that a surprise cut could be Chris Horton. With Moore's injury, the Redskins signed Carter, a SS, not a FS. And Carter already knows the defense. Horton is apparently a liability in pass coverage and not a candidate to play FS.
 
fatness said:
Skins also looking for a 3rd down back.
Jason LaCanfora
Not sure what he means by "3rd down back". Sometimes that's just a term used for "receiving back". Kyle Shanahan has already said Portis is their "3rd down back" because of his blocking. It wouldn't surprise me, though, if they are looking for someone who is a better receiver to play in 2 minute drills and run routes. I wonder if that means they are leaning towards giving Portis a fairly heavy workload and don't want him also having to be the receiving back?
 
Mike Wise was suspended from his job at the Washington Post for a month, for the fake report he made on Twitter about Roethlisberger being suspended 5 games. I like Wise but I don't know why the hell he did that. Must have been drunk.

 
Hall Davis was cut a day after they traded for him ???

The Redskins acquired Davis for a conditional draft pick Monday. On that same day, they sent tight end/fullback Dennis Morris to the Rams for another conditional draft pick.

The latest move gets the roster down to 75 from 80. The other cuts: safety Lendy Holmes, offensive lineman Edwin Williams and long snapper James Dearth. Wide receiver Malcolm Kelly was placed on injured reserve.
 
Redskins Coach Mike Shanahan was very clear on Monday, saying Kelly pulled his hamstring. "Obviously, it must be a lot worse than we first thought," Shanahan said. One day later, rather than cut Kelly, the team placed him on IR.

One of Kelly's teammates, cornerback DeAngelo Hall, has said the team misdiagnosed Kelly's injury at the outset of training camp and didn't learn the severity of it until after Kelly was already exercising the muscle.
LinkSo maybe they misdiagnosed Kelly, and maybe they misdiagnosed Haynesworth awhile back.

 
John Keim covers a bunch of things quickly about the Skins today.

I enjoy his reporting.

5. And now onto the other second-round receiver from 2008, Devin Thomas. Yes, you’d better believe he’s on the bubble. He may still make the team – what other choices do they have? But think about this: He’s on the bubble despite being part of an unimpressive receiving unit; how little must they think of him?

6. Thomas absolutely needs to have a good game Thursday. There’s clearly a lot of debate going on about him in the football offices. He might still make the roster, but it'll be a close call.
12. By the way, put Justin Tryon and Chad Rinehart as other former draft picks on the bubble.
14. The Redskins also released OL Edwin Williams, S Lendy Holmes and LS James Dearth. Williams looked good early in camp; very strong anchor. But he seems to do better in one-on-one situations than in the game. When the Redskins signed Dearth a couple weeks ago it was assumed he'd beat out Nick Sundberg, who looked very shaky early in camp. But Sundberg has actually snapped well the past three weeks in practice and in games. Dearth's snaps always were high in games. Holmes wasn't a surprise. Just no room for him.
 
Countdown to Buster blowing a gasket in 3....2......1.....
:) not sure why they'd keep inferior players like 34, 37 and 48..but I'm not at the practices, so I'm going to defer to those who were. I was hoping the injury to 41 would present an opportunity and he'd get some PT against AZ, but they must like Carter. All Holmes did when I saw him on the field was be in the right place at the right time, making plays. If he fails to catch on elsewhere and go on to a HOF career, I'll be seriously questioning my scouting skills.
 
Interesting conflicting Twitter reports today. Schefter reported that Byron Westbrook was cut. Rick Maese just tweeted that still a part of the team and will play on Thursday.

 
Interesting conflicting Twitter reports today. Schefter reported that Byron Westbrook was cut. Rick Maese just tweeted that still a part of the team and will play on Thursday.
It would be odd to cut him now. Then again, they cut a guy a day after they traded for him.
 
buster c said:
Countdown to Buster blowing a gasket in 3....2......1.....
:lmao: not sure why they'd keep inferior players like 34, 37 and 48..but I'm not at the practices, so I'm going to defer to those who were. I was hoping the injury to 41 would present an opportunity and he'd get some PT against AZ, but they must like Carter. All Holmes did when I saw him on the field was be in the right place at the right time, making plays. If he fails to catch on elsewhere and go on to a HOF career, I'll be seriously questioning my scouting skills.
.(black dot for year 2025 (10 year playing career, 5 year waiting period for HOF).
 
Interesting take on the Skins trade and cut with Morris/Davis and the reasons for it. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5518992

"The NFL Players Association is monitoring a little-known "85-percent rule" in 2010 after two minor trades this week involving rookie players were made, according to union and league sources.

Under the rule, which is only applicable in an uncapped year, any drafted rookie that is cut by his team is guaranteed 85 percent of his first-year minimum-wage $310,000 salary.

However, the union believes the Redskins and Rams circumvented the rule when they exchanged rookie players in separate transactions earlier this week. The Redskins traded rookie tight end/fullback Dennis Morris to the Rams for a future conditional draft pick; the Redskins then acquired rookie linebacker Hall Davis, also for a conditional draft pick.

Davis was cut by the Redskins after he practiced just once, on Tuesday. Davis will not be paid $272,000 he would have been due if the Rams had cut him. The Rams are expected to release Morris when yet they make their final roster cuts this week from 75 to 53.

Davis and Morris were each sixth-round draft choices.

The 85-percent rule applies only to rookies who were drafted in April. There are other quirks -- if a drafted rookie is waived by a team and re-signed by the original club to its practice squad, he will get the difference of the practice squad minimum of $80,000 and the minimum-wage $310,000 -- or $230,000.

Also, a drafted rookie will not be entitled to that 85-percent guarantee if he is cut and claimed on waivers by another team.

One other rookie trade involving sixth-round draft picks between the Cardinals and Eagles also is under scrutiny by the union -- Arizona dealt rookie cornerback Jorrick Calvin for rookie fullback Charles Scott."

 
Hall Davis was cut a day after they traded for him ???

The Redskins acquired Davis for a conditional draft pick Monday. On that same day, they sent tight end/fullback Dennis Morris to the Rams for another conditional draft pick.

The latest move gets the roster down to 75 from 80. The other cuts: safety Lendy Holmes, offensive lineman Edwin Williams and long snapper James Dearth. Wide receiver Malcolm Kelly was placed on injured reserve.
I'm pretty sure I read that part of what makes the pick conditional is that the player would have to make the final roster. Since Davis won't be on the final roster, the 'Skins shouldn't lose a pick.It actually seems like a brilliant way to have traded those players. At the time I wondered why they didn't just swap players with the Rams. Doing the two trades with conditional picks allows the 'Skins to take a look at Davis and lose nothing by not keeping him, while at the same time they still stand to gain a pick if the Rams hang on to Morris.

ETA: Or, they could just be trying to save a couple hundred thousand dollars? (per Brunell4MVP's post)

Seems like a lot of effort to save a relatively little amount of player salary money. It's not like they have a cap to get under.

 
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Interesting take on the Skins trade and cut with Morris/Davis and the reasons for it. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5518992

"The NFL Players Association is monitoring a little-known "85-percent rule" in 2010 after two minor trades this week involving rookie players were made, according to union and league sources.

Under the rule, which is only applicable in an uncapped year, any drafted rookie that is cut by his team is guaranteed 85 percent of his first-year minimum-wage $310,000 salary.

However, the union believes the Redskins and Rams circumvented the rule when they exchanged rookie players in separate transactions earlier this week. The Redskins traded rookie tight end/fullback Dennis Morris to the Rams for a future conditional draft pick; the Redskins then acquired rookie linebacker Hall Davis, also for a conditional draft pick.

Davis was cut by the Redskins after he practiced just once, on Tuesday. Davis will not be paid $272,000 he would have been due if the Rams had cut him. The Rams are expected to release Morris when yet they make their final roster cuts this week from 75 to 53.

Davis and Morris were each sixth-round draft choices.

The 85-percent rule applies only to rookies who were drafted in April. There are other quirks -- if a drafted rookie is waived by a team and re-signed by the original club to its practice squad, he will get the difference of the practice squad minimum of $80,000 and the minimum-wage $310,000 -- or $230,000.

Also, a drafted rookie will not be entitled to that 85-percent guarantee if he is cut and claimed on waivers by another team.

One other rookie trade involving sixth-round draft picks between the Cardinals and Eagles also is under scrutiny by the union -- Arizona dealt rookie cornerback Jorrick Calvin for rookie fullback Charles Scott."
Makes sense. Sucks for Davis and Morris, but I hate when the rules are what they are and then people claim rules were circumvented.
 
Seems like pretty saavy use of the rules to me, though I'd be pissed if I was one of the players of course.
So would I. Now that they've circumvented the rules that way the loophole will disappear, and the question is whether either cut player will try to recover money.
 
Interesting

The real issue here, in our view, isn't whether the spirit of the 85-percent rule was violated. Instead, the transactions -- specifically the Rams-Redskin trade -- could be interpreted as evidence of collusion. Surely, the Rams and Redskins knew what they were doing when swapping two unwanted rookies; they were essentially agreeing to a quid pro quo that gave each team a chance to dump a player while saving $272,000.

There's no specific provision of the CBA's Anti-Collusion clause that addresses this precise issue. But Section 1(e) of Article XXVIII arguably is broad enough to cover this situation, by encompassing any agreement "concerning the terms or conditions of employment offered to any player for inclusion, or included, in a Player Contract."

Either way, the Redskins and Rams may have outsmarted themselves on this one, and in an effort to save $272,000 they may have fueled a broader attack on the league's overall perceived (or actual) lack of player spending in the uncapped year.

UPDATE: A league source tells us that the money wouldn't have gone to Davis, but that it would have gone to the other rookies who made the team, distributed based on the number of downs played by the rookies. So, basically, the Rams may have screwed their rookies other than Hall Davis out of their cut of $272,000.
 
The 2008 draft is best forgotten.

Before the 2008 draft, owner Daniel Snyder and Vinny Cerrato, then Washington's executive vice president of football operations, led a Redskins contingent that attended the final workout of standout Oklahoma wide receiver Malcolm Kelly.
Through team spokesman Tony Wyllie, Cerrato said team sources were inaccurate in portraying Snyder as having a role in the selection of Kelly.

"He had a phenomenal workout" before the draft, Cerrato said. "We all made the decision [but] Dan was not involved. He made the trip to [Oklahoma] just to offer support."
Right, "just to offer support." I remember the 2 of them making that trip. Why the hell an NFL owner is/was involved in scouting players is beyond me. What a wreck those 2 guys made.
Not a single draft pick from the class is expected to start Sept. 12 against the Dallas Cowboys, and only three may be on the opening 53-man roster. It seems the success of the class hinges on the performances of Thomas, pass-catching tight end Fred Davis and safety Kareem Moore - who is sidelined to open the season.
As the 2008 draft unfolded, Cerrato executed a questionable plan in an effort to bolster the receiving corps. He traded out of the first round, sending Washington's picks in the first, third and fifth rounds (Nos. 21, 84 and 154 overall) to the Atlanta Falcons for the Nos. 34 and 48 picks in the second round and a fourth-round pick, the 103rd overall.

With three second-round picks, the Redskins selected Thomas, Davis and Kelly. After Pro Bowl tight end Chris Cooley was injured last season, Davis emerged as a force in the passing game.

Washington released punter Durant Brooks (sixth round) during the 2008 season, and quarterback Colt Brennan (sixth round) was released early this August. Offensive lineman Chad Rinehart (third round), cornerback Justin Tryon (fourth round), defensive end Rob Jackson (seventh round) and safety Chris Horton (seventh round) may not make this year's team.
 
John Beck has reportedly signed a contract extension. I guess that means they keep 3 QB's this year and cut Bartel.

 
Prediction: Beck is the Redskins' QB of the future. He'll start after learning under Shanahan for the two or three years that McNabb will remain with the team.
Reports: John Beck signs contract extensionQuarterback John Beck has signed a contract extension with the Redskins, according to various reports. The deal would seem to indicate that the Redskins intend to keep three quarterbacks and that Richard Bartel, who has been competing with Beck for the third-string job, is the odd man out.Donovan McNabb is the entrenched starter and Rex Grossman appears to have a firm hold on the backup spot.The Redskins acquired Beck August 2 from the Baltimore Ravens for cornerback Doug Dutch, who has since been cut.According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Beck agreed to a two-year, $2.25 million contract extension and is now signed for a total of three years at $3.35 million. Rich Campbell of the Fredericksburg Free Lance-Star says Beck signed the deal last week.By Washington Post editors | September 1, 2010; 6:18 PM ET
:X
 
Things to watch for tonight

Thomas needs a big effort or the 2008 second-round receiver will be cut. Thomas is better than Anthony Armstrong and Terrence Austin and certainly Brandon Banks, but he doesn’t seem to be a good fit with this coaching staff. The Redskins wonder whether the speedster will run correct patterns. Coach Mike Shanahan seems intent on creating his roster, so another former draft pick could be released.

Willie Parker needs a miracle finish not to be the odd man out behind Clinton Portis and Larry Johnson. Parker looked good in practices but has done little in preseason games. None of the three is an especially good third-down receiver, and only Portis picks up blitzers, so the Redskins probably will go younger. That means Ryan Torain over Parker.

If the Redskins keep a third blocking tight end, rookie Logan Paulsen and Lee Vickers have both looked good. Tough call, but Vickers might have an edge.

Safety Chris Horton, whose fabulous 2008 rookie season earned him the nickname “Predator,” needs a big effort to avoid being cut. He was so promising, but the Redskins have just become so much better at the position, even with Kareem Moore injured.



Jeremy Jarmon is being shopped around as a last-minute trade, which is a real shame because the 2009 third rounder isn’t a bust. He simply doesn’t fit in the new 3-4 defense. Neither does linebacker Andre Carter, who probably will leave next season.

After Saturday, figure the Redskins to sign at least three players from leaguewide cuts — probably a receiver, running back and offensive lineman. This roster is far from complete.
 
I think you're right about Beck.
Beck's on-field credentials are actually worse than Grossman's, so it didn't make sense that they would acquire him without thinking he could be more than that (damning with faint praise, I'm sure). He was well regarded and hasn't gotten good coaching or opportunity with either Miami or Baltimore, so I think Shanny believes he's a diamond in the rough. I actually grabbed him as a FA in my deep dynasty league after they traded for him.
 
I've been stopping into this thread periodically over the summer, but haven't followed every post. Can some of you provide your thoughts on what has been seen from Portis this offseason/preseason as well as his outlook for the year? How much is LJ expected to eat into his productivity?

 
Good to see you Mr. Putski.

Portis is the unquestioned RB#1 on the team, having outplayed all the others in training camp. He's also far and away the best blocker among the RB's, so on 3rd-and-long plays he's the obvious choice to be in there. I don't know if any of us know how Shanahan will use them all, but no one has shown they're better than Portis in running or blocking.

Johnson and Parker are likely in a contest to see which one doesn't get cut. And unless something miraculous happens tonight it's likely Parker who will go.

 
A good detailed article about the Redskins/Rams trades that the NFLPA is watching. There would be no actual allegation of wrongdoing until the end of the season, if at all.

Link

This matter isn’t going to be resolved anytime soon because the NFLPA must wait to see what the Redskins do with the $320,000 that traded rookie Dennis Morris was scheduled to earn this season. Before we go further, let’s recap.

The Redskins decided to trade Morris, a sixth-round pick and tight end, to St. Louis this week after they determined that Morris would not make the team. (Mike Shanahan’s exact quote: “He wasn’t gonna make our team.”) Washington got an undisclosed conditional draft pick in return. In a separate transaction, the Redskins traded an undisclosed conditional pick to St. Louis in exchange for Davis.

The trades seemed a bit strange until you read Article XVII, Section 4(m) of the collective bargaining agreement: It states than in a League Year without a salary cap (and 2010 is such a year), 85 percent of a drafted rookie’s salary must be reallocated to other drafted rookies on the team if the drafted rookie is released. The reallocation is based on the other drafted rookies’ playing time. Morris was scheduled to make $320,000, so the Redskins would have had to reallocate $270,000 to the other drafted rookies that make the team if Morris had been released. ESPN.com’s original story about this incorrectly reported that Morris, himself, was due the $270,000, but the story has since been corrected.

This, then, is where the trade comes in. Because the language in the CBA specifically states that the money must be reallocated if the player is released, the Redskins could possibly get around the rule and save the money by trading Morris and letting the Rams cut him. The NFLPA is going to wait and see what the Redskins do with that $270,000 before taking action. No action can be taken until the end of the season because that money can’t be reallocated based on playing time until the season is complete, according to the source.

It’s an interesting situation, especially because the Redskins have three other draft picks (seventh rounders WR Terrence Austin, G/C Erik Cook, and T/G Selvish Capers) in danger of not making the team. Considering the Redskins’ apparent aversion to reallocating 85 percent of a released rookie’s salary, it would seem that Austin, Cook and Capers are strong practice squad candidates if they don’t make the final 53-man roster. (I believe they are anyway.) The Redskins still would have to reallocate the difference between their scheduled salaries and their practice squad salaries, but the amount is at least reduced a bit. Of course, the Redskins could try to trade them as they did Morris. The NFLPA, however, is already on alert.
 
It looks like Anthony Armstrong is in a baseball cap and no pads. Looks like he's a lock.

I think Brandon Banks just made the roster with that kick return, too. He made an absolutely sick cut when it looked like he had no where to go.

 
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What do you do with Banks. Every play he is a threat to take it to the house or put it on the ground!M
Yeah, as electric as he is with the ball in his hands, I think the muffs/fumbles are just too much of a liability. I'd be fine with him spending a year on the PS working on his hands/ball security.
 

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