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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2011 Off-Season Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DCThunder
- Start date
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
You saw the play at least 20 times- Alex Barron couldn't handle Brian Orakpo, and therefore held him blatantly. The only difference was that on the last play the referee happened to throw a yellow hankie.
fatness
Footballguy
Cowboys drive the length of the field in the last 1:30 or so, 3 seconds left on the clock from somewhere inside the Redskin 10-yard-line, pass to Roy Williams who catches it cleanly in the end zone for a TD, Cowboys celebrate not noticing the flag, Alex Barron flagged for holding again for strangling Brian Orakpo, no TD, game over, Redskins win 13-7.That's all.
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Grades
Overall Offense... C+ : Looked out of synch. Couldn't sustain drives. A couple of drops really hurt closing out the game. However, they made very few mistakes.
QB... C: McNabb's ability to move in the pocket and make good decisions was important. This was an L with Campbell back there. But McNabb clearly isn't in synch with the offense. I'm a huge McNabb fan, but he looked very rusty.
OL...B- : Williams played great. Brown and Hicks played well. Rabach will never be able to block a strong NT. They did not look good run blocking, especially on the right side.
RB....B : Portis ran hard and blocked exceptional. But nobody else did anything.
WR/TE... C : Moss and Cooley played decent. Moss ticks me off with the key drops though. But nobody else was to be found. Amazed that Roydell was the #2 WR. I expect Galloway to see more playing time. Was Davis hurt? If not, he was invisible.
Overall Defense... B : Solid outing against a talented team. Gave up a lot of yards rushing and over the middle (388 total). Pressure on the QB was spotty. Gave up too many 3rd down coversions when it mattered. But they kept Dallas from scoring, and that's what matters.
DL... C : The middle is not holding up. They are really missing a NT that can get push. Kemeotu was average at best, and Haynesworth was horrid. No pressure from the ends, but they held up their men, which is a large part of their job now.
LB... B : Good tackling, just too far downfield. Don't think they have the 3-4 down yet. Often caught out of position on runs and slants. Orakpo may not of had statistics, but I thought he was very impressive last night. I expect this unit to improve throughout the season.
CB/S...A : Only 2 screwups all night. One on the TD where Doughty bit on the run, and one on the dropped coverage on Austin by Buchanon. But Landry played great, Hall was darn good, and Rogers was quietly impressive (still has those bad hands though). Excellent tackling by this unit.
Special teams...C
Punter...D Awful kicks when backed up in their own zone. Muffed hold on extra point. Just terrible.
Kicker...B Pretty good night. Adequate kickoffs. Made the expected kicks.
Coaching...A-
It is so nice to have quiet authority in charge. Team was organized and played hard. Offensive play calling was very good. Runs right and left. Throws to multiple spots on the field. Coached like they were confident in their players. Defensively I expected more blitzing and pressure. I think they were worried about even more big runs and screens against them. But I still want more pressure on the QB. This was an L without the new coaches.
Overall Offense... C+ : Looked out of synch. Couldn't sustain drives. A couple of drops really hurt closing out the game. However, they made very few mistakes.
QB... C: McNabb's ability to move in the pocket and make good decisions was important. This was an L with Campbell back there. But McNabb clearly isn't in synch with the offense. I'm a huge McNabb fan, but he looked very rusty.
OL...B- : Williams played great. Brown and Hicks played well. Rabach will never be able to block a strong NT. They did not look good run blocking, especially on the right side.
RB....B : Portis ran hard and blocked exceptional. But nobody else did anything.
WR/TE... C : Moss and Cooley played decent. Moss ticks me off with the key drops though. But nobody else was to be found. Amazed that Roydell was the #2 WR. I expect Galloway to see more playing time. Was Davis hurt? If not, he was invisible.
Overall Defense... B : Solid outing against a talented team. Gave up a lot of yards rushing and over the middle (388 total). Pressure on the QB was spotty. Gave up too many 3rd down coversions when it mattered. But they kept Dallas from scoring, and that's what matters.
DL... C : The middle is not holding up. They are really missing a NT that can get push. Kemeotu was average at best, and Haynesworth was horrid. No pressure from the ends, but they held up their men, which is a large part of their job now.
LB... B : Good tackling, just too far downfield. Don't think they have the 3-4 down yet. Often caught out of position on runs and slants. Orakpo may not of had statistics, but I thought he was very impressive last night. I expect this unit to improve throughout the season.
CB/S...A : Only 2 screwups all night. One on the TD where Doughty bit on the run, and one on the dropped coverage on Austin by Buchanon. But Landry played great, Hall was darn good, and Rogers was quietly impressive (still has those bad hands though). Excellent tackling by this unit.
Special teams...C
Punter...D Awful kicks when backed up in their own zone. Muffed hold on extra point. Just terrible.
Kicker...B Pretty good night. Adequate kickoffs. Made the expected kicks.
Coaching...A-
It is so nice to have quiet authority in charge. Team was organized and played hard. Offensive play calling was very good. Runs right and left. Throws to multiple spots on the field. Coached like they were confident in their players. Defensively I expected more blitzing and pressure. I think they were worried about even more big runs and screens against them. But I still want more pressure on the QB. This was an L without the new coaches.
fatness
Footballguy
This is what was different.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
I'd like to hear more about how Fred Davis was used. Was he even on the field? I was figuring we'd see 2 TE sets with him, but if that happened it certainly made no impression upon me.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Before analyzing the game or looking ahead to next week I just want to say that as a lifelong Redskin fan living in the DC area with so many fake Cowgirl fans and fans from other cities.
IT IS AN ABSOLUTE JOY TO GO TO WORK ON THE MONDAY AFTER A REDKSIN VICTORY OVER DALLAS!!!
In the past my wife has said thay during football season my mood for the entire week was predicated on whether the Skins won or loss and my FF teams. Last year the Skins were so bad early on that I really stopped caring.
But it's a new era of Redskin football. Yes, they have A LOT of room for improvement but well coached teams find a way to win games like last nite.
IT IS AN ABSOLUTE JOY TO GO TO WORK ON THE MONDAY AFTER A REDKSIN VICTORY OVER DALLAS!!!
In the past my wife has said thay during football season my mood for the entire week was predicated on whether the Skins won or loss and my FF teams. Last year the Skins were so bad early on that I really stopped caring.
But it's a new era of Redskin football. Yes, they have A LOT of room for improvement but well coached teams find a way to win games like last nite.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Not only did he play great, he wasn't given any help that I saw throughout the night against one of the premier pass rushers in the league . . . in his NFL debut in the SNF game. Amazing.Brunell4MVP said:
scoobygang
Footballguy
He gave up a sack, got beat inside for another hurry that probably killed a drive, and had a key false start penalty at the most inopportune time.Williams certainly showed great potential, and deserves plenty of credit for battling 1 on 1 against arguably the best pure pass rusher in the league. But we can't say that he played great. People giving him A-'s are insane.
I also think it needs to be stated. The Redskins got lucky last night. Which is fine. You often get lucky before you get good. But I'm seeing a lot of positive grades for an offense that scored 6 points and gained under 300 yards.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
True. The word "great" is too much, but I came away impressed. I also agree that the win was lucky. The Redskins made fewer self-defeating mistakes than the Cowboys did, which while a testament to discipline and preparation, isn't exactly awe inspiring.
buster c
Footballguy
some observations from last night’s big win:
the Skins scouts got it right with the selection of Silverback. Okung is injured and has yet to play, but if he’s better than #71, he’ll be going to Canton.
I know he’s a “character guy” and all, but Reed D #37 is going to lose ball games this year if they continue to play him. Every time, he’s a step late to the play. Every freaking time.
Is Hunter Smith still available?
98 & 99 look much better playing D-line. At LB, they’re pretty much Lost in Space.
Landry is an animal. He played last night as if he was a pro-bowler. Obviously, SS is where he belongs.
I got to give props to #23 for the play of the game – and for sticking his nose in the scrum a few times. His post-game comments were an eye-rolling display of self-love, but without his play, they lose the game.
Portis looked to get going late – ironically enough, it was right after they read off his stat line on TV (something like 16 for 36). He looses his feet too easily, but if they can get him into a flow, he can be effective. He was in mid-season form picking up blitzers, blasting dudes right & left.
Love the guy, but 45 Sellers can’t block and can’t catch. He needs to go.
11 looked good on KR’s. Buchanan didn’t field a punt (nor should he) and I saw Moss out there late, which I’d love to see more of. He’s a tough little dude.
Was Galloway even targeted?
Cooley is to Redskin offense (I use that term loosely) what a blanket is to Linus.
How did Armstrong make the team again? 2 dropped TD’s on back to back plays should get him a bus ticket. Make a play on that ball, son!
The contrast between McNabb & 17 JC was apparent. #5 is decisive with the ball and feels/avoids pressure – this is a professional QB. Meanwhile, in TN, JC is still holding onto the ball, unable to decide where to go with it, getting hit and fumbling. He’s got a million dollar arm but it’s going to waste.
This was a lucky win, but what’s that cliché – luck is where hard work/preparation meet opportunity? Clearly, Shanny and staff provided the sideline advantage to the clowns running the show on the other sideline. Enjoy them while you can because ol’ Stretch(face) Jones is going to clean house this coming offseason. Bank it!
the Skins scouts got it right with the selection of Silverback. Okung is injured and has yet to play, but if he’s better than #71, he’ll be going to Canton.
I know he’s a “character guy” and all, but Reed D #37 is going to lose ball games this year if they continue to play him. Every time, he’s a step late to the play. Every freaking time.
Is Hunter Smith still available?
98 & 99 look much better playing D-line. At LB, they’re pretty much Lost in Space.
Landry is an animal. He played last night as if he was a pro-bowler. Obviously, SS is where he belongs.
I got to give props to #23 for the play of the game – and for sticking his nose in the scrum a few times. His post-game comments were an eye-rolling display of self-love, but without his play, they lose the game.
Portis looked to get going late – ironically enough, it was right after they read off his stat line on TV (something like 16 for 36). He looses his feet too easily, but if they can get him into a flow, he can be effective. He was in mid-season form picking up blitzers, blasting dudes right & left.
Love the guy, but 45 Sellers can’t block and can’t catch. He needs to go.
11 looked good on KR’s. Buchanan didn’t field a punt (nor should he) and I saw Moss out there late, which I’d love to see more of. He’s a tough little dude.
Was Galloway even targeted?
Cooley is to Redskin offense (I use that term loosely) what a blanket is to Linus.
How did Armstrong make the team again? 2 dropped TD’s on back to back plays should get him a bus ticket. Make a play on that ball, son!
The contrast between McNabb & 17 JC was apparent. #5 is decisive with the ball and feels/avoids pressure – this is a professional QB. Meanwhile, in TN, JC is still holding onto the ball, unable to decide where to go with it, getting hit and fumbling. He’s got a million dollar arm but it’s going to waste.
This was a lucky win, but what’s that cliché – luck is where hard work/preparation meet opportunity? Clearly, Shanny and staff provided the sideline advantage to the clowns running the show on the other sideline. Enjoy them while you can because ol’ Stretch(face) Jones is going to clean house this coming offseason. Bank it!
The grades on for the offense are way too high. They scored 6 offensive points. My thoughts:QB: B- compared to what we had before, he is good. He kept plays alive by eluding the pass rush multiple times. He does not fumble when hit. But he did miss many throws.Brunell4MVP said:
OL: Passblocking: B They did fairly well, but gave up a sack and McNabb was flushed out of the pocket many times. Run Blocking: D, maybe lower. There were just no holes to run through for most of the game. This was true in preseason too.
RB: B- Portis played well, but had no holes to run through. His blocking and picking up blitzers was excellent. I was not impressed with LJ at all. Sellers dropped two passes.
WR/TE: C- Moss looked good, but had a drop. Cooley looked good. But it's hard to be much above average with no catches from Galloway and Williams, your #2 and #3 WR. Armstrong had two consecutive plays in the corner of the endzone and could not come down with the ball.
Even these grades may be generous, but the D or lower in the run blocking really hurts the team.
simmonjm
Footballguy
LJ by himself should recieve an F. He had only a handful of carries and when the game is on the line he decides to run out of bounds. I remember on a couple of occasions Portis was getting nice chunks of yardage, LJ comes in and gets stopped for 1 yard.
VaTerp
Footballguy
I don't think LJ desereved a F based on that. Running out of bounds was bad but his thigh put Ware out for the final 6 plays of the Redskins last drive and potentially helped keep that drive going a little longer and taking some more time off the clock.Portis is GREAT in pass pro and runs hard but he simply does not have the burst or vision he displayed earlier in his career. LJ has not looked that good in his limited action in pre-season or last night but I still have a feeling that he will contribute at some point this season. The Skins really need to upgrade at RB next off season.
I think people may be saying too much about it being a "lucky" win. From a Dallas perspective, the loss was well earned. The incredible play call at the end of the first half. The poor pass blocking cost them on the last play of the game. Dallas ran the ball effectively and end up with Barber 8 rushes for 39 yards and Jones 8 rushes for 38 yards. Why throw the ball 48 times when you can run the for almost 5 yards a carry.It was a well earned loss for Dallas.
VaTerp
Footballguy
Quote from my HS basketball coach that I still use to this day.I agree with just about all of this. Devin Thomas had 2 really nice kick returns but I don't remember him getting any snaps at WR. I understand he has been inconsistent and maybe the coaching staff doesnt fully trust him yet but at some point you have to get the guy on the field and see if he can play.
Galloway did absolutely nothing. He is 38 years old and at one time was a very good player but that time passed several years ago. Armstrong as you said had the opportunity to make plays and simply did not. He was a great pre-seaon story but at this point I think you pretty much know what you have in him. He is a fringe roster player in the NFL IMO. Roydell Williams??? I mean really. He hasnt played in 2 years and is clearly no better than a 4th or 5th WR. I really think that Wade should have been kept over him but what do I know.
I do know that I would really like to see #11 get on the field more as a WR. He has flashed some play making ability and I think at some point you have to put him on the field and say "sink or swim." To not play him in favor of guys who are having absolutely zero impact on the game is something that I hope does not continue.
fatness
Footballguy
Yes. Still is.
identikit
Footballguy
Not in the thread subtitle...
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
There were a few times, at least, where both Cooley and Davis were on the field. From memory, they were mostly run plays. Whenever I noted that Davis was on the field it seemed like he was blocking.Not sure that I mind too much the way Moss and Cooley are finding space and getting open, though.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Hey, I agree with buster on something!
Sellers has become a liability on offense, IMO. I appreciate what he's done for, and meant to, this team over the years, but it's time to replace him.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I don't think I'd say they only screwed up twice as a unit. Coverage was blown horribly on that last play. There is no reason Roy Williams should have been that wide open in the end zone.I loved the toughness and aggressiveness we saw out of the DBs as a whole, and there were a lot of plays to praise them for, but this D is still a work in progress, and that includes the secondary.Brunell4MVP said:
scoobygang
Footballguy
All of this fits my definition of a lucky win. The Redskins won because Dallas made a ton of unforced errors. When I think of the drives where Dallas stalled, I don't remember a signature big, timely play from the defense (with the possible exception of the corner blitz forcing a quick throw on one third down). They stalled because Dallas would get in a weird play-calling rut (such as throwing so many smoke screens when it was clear that was one play the Skins could handle). We can say that Orakpo forced Barron's errors, but otherwise the Redskins benefitted from a team making a bunch of errors. And it's not as if the Skins didn't make errors. Some posters are making a lot of improved coaching, but if Jim Zorn had burned two TOs within the first five minutes of the second half, we'd be roasting him.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
It's my understanding that at least one and possibly both of the TOs at the beginning of the second half were the result of technical problems with McNabb's radio helmet. After the second one he was gesturing wildly with his hand by his ear, like a one-handed raise the roof" type gesture.Not excusing it, or saying we wouldn't be killing Zorn (fairly or not) if it had happened when he was at the helm, but I don't know if that was simply a preparedness issue.
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Although, at this point, I don't think it matters all that much what adjective you throw in front "win".IMO, the take away message of the week is that this is a team that is still growing/gelling/learning the playbook. The win was nice, for many reasons, but no one should be deluded into thinking that any one phase of the 'Skins game (O, D, ST) was all that "successful". For every positive that came out of yesterday's game, you can probably find at least as many negatives.Next week will present a new, probably even harder, challenge. I wouldn't be surprised if the 'Skins were 1-1 this time next week, after losing by 3 TDs or more.
VaTerp
Footballguy
The problem was not McNabb's radio. It was that they weren't resetting the play clock properly and did this on at least 3 occasions. They did it to Romo once to but corrected it without Dallas having to burn a timeout. The hand signal McNabb gave means to reset the playclock.To the larger point about this being a lucky win. As someone pointed out earlier luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Even though the offense had it's share of struggles, last nite's game cleared showed the value of the Shanahan's and McNabb. Zorn and Campbell not only would have matched Dallas' mistakes but they would have one upped them.McNabb and the offense moved the ball just well enough to keep favorable field position and give the defense breathers at the right time. They were far from crisp but they did connect on several good plays at the right time. It's clear that this QB and this coaching staff know how to do the little things that help win games and minimize costly mistakes that lose games.In the NFL you have to find a way to win games even when you are not playing at your best. The Skins did that last nite and I am hopeful and confident that this was a sign of things to come.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
The same could also be said about the exact same play being called back-to-back and failing both times (fades to Armstrong).
scoobygang
Footballguy
Or about "taking points off the board."I would have defended Zorn if he had made the same decision there and had the same result, but God knows some fans would have been complaining.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Key development last night. McNabb made no game changing mistakes, no critical INT's. Campbell seemed to tighten up and press during crunch time which was my biggest pet peeve with him. That last clock-killing drive would likely have resulted in some error.
Also, the clock and game mangement were professional for the first time since . . . Marty? Norv? Gibbs I? How much better was it? The team's waste of two early second half timeouts didn't even matter.
Also, the clock and game mangement were professional for the first time since . . . Marty? Norv? Gibbs I? How much better was it? The team's waste of two early second half timeouts didn't even matter.
Fixed
identikit
Footballguy
Looking good...Fixed
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
Santana Moss just ran by Roy Williams and caught another ball he missed. It's getting to be a habit.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
You got to hand it to Andy Herron- he sure knows his Cowboys, as evidenced last night in the game thread:
fatness
Footballguy
I distinctly remember the Dallas WR handing the ball politely to Deangelo Hall, who then scored. Right you are.
identikit
Footballguy
I'm sure he smelled something...
fatness
Footballguy
I would have, too. Ironically, even though I loved the decision to wipe out the FG and keep going for the TD, the team would have been better off just keeping the FG on the board. But you can't tell that when the decision is made, and in the long run the team probably benefits more from going for it. When Zorn went for it in situations like that it was like Don Quixote going after a windmill. With Shanahan, it's more like guts enough to try it plus enough know-how to have a reasonable chance at succeeding. Another ballsy move was the 49-yard FG try.
scoobygang
Footballguy
About 3 inexplicable things had to happen in order for DeAngelo Hall to be in position to make that play, but sure, we'll call that a forced mistake.
TobiasFunke
Footballguy
I'd even go so far as to say there's no "probably" about it. Consider the expected value of first and goal at the 5 for even the worst offense in the history of the NFL- I guarantee you it's well in excess of 3.0. And that's before we even get to the fact that the score at the time was 10-0, meaning it's still a two-possession game with a FG, while a TD would have all but clinched the win.
southeastjerome
Footballguy
Some positives to gleam from last night:
Landry. He was all over. This was his best game as a pro. He was a menace. It looks like we have him in the role where he belongs.
Trent Williams more than held his own. He looks like the real deal.
Other than the two early 2nd half timeouts, this team actually looked organized. I can't really remember the last time I felt that way about this team.
I think we finally found our kicker in Gano. I really like the guy.
Landry. He was all over. This was his best game as a pro. He was a menace. It looks like we have him in the role where he belongs.
Trent Williams more than held his own. He looks like the real deal.
Other than the two early 2nd half timeouts, this team actually looked organized. I can't really remember the last time I felt that way about this team.
I think we finally found our kicker in Gano. I really like the guy.
Nightly Mistake
Footballguy
That last kick, the 49-yarder after Shanny changed his mind about punting, was
Dead center, plenty of distance. Awesome.
Harjiran
Footballguy
I agree with all of this. I would add that Devin Thomas was a breath of fresh air on returns. He just looks dangerous back there and I have a feeling that he'll break a few long ones this year. Orakpo also looks good. Portis is hardcore in pass protection. And he didn't have a huge game but McNabb is clearly an upgrade from Jason Campbell. If he stays healthy + the steadying influence of the Shanahans and we just might squeak into the playoffs this year. The offense still has a long way to go though. I really thought Fred Davis would be more of a factor but overall I came away impressed, despite the anticlimactic nature of the final play of the game.
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
fatness
Footballguy
John Keim article comparing his predictions for the game with what actually happened. As usual it's detailed and worth reading.
Snippets:
Snippets:
fatness
Footballguy
From Shanahan's news conference today (copied from Chris Russell on Twitter)
"Albert played hard"
# Shanahan on injuries: "You know I wouldn't tell ya, so why even ask."
"Obviously Doc's our starter at (LG). Stephon has played well through the preseason. I thought Jammal did a good job"
"I think I know em quite well (Houston). They know me, we do know each other."
"I thought Devin did one heck of a job. Devin helped himself last night."
# Shanahan: "# 1 hopefully "Shanahan football" will be scoring a few more points"when asked about players saying they won using his principles about 2 hours ago via web
"The thing I was hoping we would do a better job of was in the red zone."
"At the end of the day, you have to find a way to win. If you win in the NFL, enjoy it because it doesn't happen all the time."
"Albert played hard"
# Shanahan on injuries: "You know I wouldn't tell ya, so why even ask."
"Obviously Doc's our starter at (LG). Stephon has played well through the preseason. I thought Jammal did a good job"
"I think I know em quite well (Houston). They know me, we do know each other."
"I thought Devin did one heck of a job. Devin helped himself last night."
# Shanahan: "# 1 hopefully "Shanahan football" will be scoring a few more points"when asked about players saying they won using his principles about 2 hours ago via web
"The thing I was hoping we would do a better job of was in the red zone."
"At the end of the day, you have to find a way to win. If you win in the NFL, enjoy it because it doesn't happen all the time."
fatness
Footballguy
dgreen
Footballguy
Exactly. For me, it was a win that didn't feel like a win. It's better than losing, but it didn't quite leave me as happy as I expected to be from a win. If that game had been in the middle of the season after some successful weeks, I'd be thrilled just to get a win. But, being game 1, it leaves you wondering if that's what the season will be like.
TankRizzo
Footballguy
quick fantasy question fellas, is Devin Thomas worth keeping on my roster? My WR situation is horrid and I'm thinking of dropping him and picking up Amendola.
the rest of my WRs are as follows, we start 4:
Collie, Austin IND WR 21.6 7 $0.80 2+
Crayton, Patrick SDC WR 0.0 10 $0.20 2+
Jarrett, Dwayne CAR WR 4.4 6 $0.10 2+
Jones, James GBP WR 1.1 10 $0.10 2+
Thomas, Devin WAS WR 0.0 9 $0.10 2+
Ward, Hines PIT WR 11.0 5 $2.70 2+
Wayne, Reggie IND WR 15.9 7 $8.30 2+
the rest of my WRs are as follows, we start 4:
Collie, Austin IND WR 21.6 7 $0.80 2+
Crayton, Patrick SDC WR 0.0 10 $0.20 2+
Jarrett, Dwayne CAR WR 4.4 6 $0.10 2+
Jones, James GBP WR 1.1 10 $0.10 2+
Thomas, Devin WAS WR 0.0 9 $0.10 2+
Ward, Hines PIT WR 11.0 5 $2.70 2+
Wayne, Reggie IND WR 15.9 7 $8.30 2+
GreedoShotFirst
Footballguy
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