***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2011 Off-Season Thread (2 Viewers)

[dgreen]

Maybe Shanahan isn't as concerned about the OL. With big Mike Williams coming back (I assume he is), Trent Williams at LT, Litenstieger or Montgomer at center, maybe a single free agent signing can really shore up the unit. They could also be high on two draft picks from last year, Eric Cook and Selvish Capers.

I definitely assumed Kyle's early praise of the line last Spring was just typical offseason hype. But, it's possible he was being pretty honest. None of us really see much to like, but I will say the blocking (both running and passing) seemed to improve as the year progressed.

 

[dgreen]

Outside shot McNabb is our QB this year? I'm starting to think it.

Not sure if I've said it much here, but I've been saying that I don't think it's a lock that he's gone. If he's still here when the season starts, I honestly think they'll start whoever they think gives them the best chance to win and I think McNabb, of all people, would handle that situation very well regardless of the outcome.

 

[thayman]

No fix at QB and no fix at RT. Those are two places with limited options in free agency.

Notice ARI didn't pick a QB. I'm guessing that'll be Kolb. Outside shot McNabb is our QB this year? I'm starting to think it.

It depends on what happens with the CBA and if guys can be FA after 4 or 6 years (I think it's 4 or 6). There could be some decent options like Robert Gallery out there.As far as QB we should have a pretty high pick next year. Let Grossman or whoever play this year and get the guy of the future with our top 5 pick next year.

 

[Tuco]

I enjoyed reading this from Yahoo's Draft Grades:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A2KJ3Cbuw7xNDn8AdmpNbK5_?slug=sportsxchange-000313960_draft-grades-nfc-east

Washington Redskins: A

Historically known for aggressively trading up in the draft, the Redskins took the opposite strategy in 2011, deftly moving down the board, picking up more selections and still addressing keys area of need. Having run a 3-4 defense for the past few seasons despite fielding a team largely built on 4-3 personnel, the Redskins added a prototypical edge-rusher in Ryan Kerrigan(notes) to pair with Brian Orakpo(notes). While many characterized the Big 10 Defensive Player of the Year as strictly a 4-3 defensive end, Kerrigan actually projects better as an OLB as he doesn't use his hands particularly well, but has burst, agility and great instincts. The Redskins added a classic five-technique defensive end in Clemson's Jarvis Jenkins(notes) in the second round and addressed their need for receivers with size in Miami's Leonard Hankerson and Nebraska's Niles Paul in the third and fifth rounds. No head coach has enjoyed as much success with late-round running backs as Mike Shanahan, and he could have worked his magic again with Roy Helu (Nebraska) and Penn State's Evan Royster in the fourth and sixth rounds. Helu, in particular, is an ideal fit in a zone-scheme, as he can plant his foot and accelerate downhill explosively. In terms of adding multiple players who fit their scheme and will improve the overall talent of their club, no team was more effective this year than the Redskins.

 

[Sebowski]

I enjoyed reading this from Yahoo's Draft Grades:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A2KJ3Cbuw7xNDn8AdmpNbK5_?slug=sportsxchange-000313960_draft-grades-nfc-east

Washington Redskins: A

Historically known for aggressively trading up in the draft, the Redskins took the opposite strategy in 2011, deftly moving down the board, picking up more selections and still addressing keys area of need. Having run a 3-4 defense for the past few seasons....

 

[thayman]

On a side note it looks like Jerry Jones is definitly back in control of the Cowboy's draft.

 

[fatness]

Not sure if I've said it much here, but I've been saying that I don't think it's a lock that he's gone. If he's still here when the season starts, I honestly think they'll start whoever they think gives them the best chance to win and I think McNabb, of all people, would handle that situation very well regardless of the outcome.

I've never been sure McNabb would be gone. I do not think they want him, but just like Haynesworth they're too stubborn to let him go until they get their ridiculous idea of "value" for him. I could easily see them keeping him as QB3 and deactivating him all season long. And I think Haynesworth will be on the team again this year, another dead roster spot.

 

[fatness]

Full draft list

 

[Warrior]

Not sure if I've said it much here, but I've been saying that I don't think it's a lock that he's gone. If he's still here when the season starts, I honestly think they'll start whoever they think gives them the best chance to win and I think McNabb, of all people, would handle that situation very well regardless of the outcome.

I've never been sure McNabb would be gone. I do not think they want him, but just like Haynesworth they're too stubborn to let him go until they get their ridiculous idea of "value" for him. I could easily see them keeping him as QB3 and deactivating him all season long. And I think Haynesworth will be on the team again this year, another dead roster spot.

I don't understand this reasoning. They obviously know he's the best QB on the roster...if they're going to pay him, they'll start him. His contract is the only reason they wouldn't keep him as the starting QB...do you think that deactivating him all season long would somehow save them $?If you're thinking that Shanahan somehow believes he's not the best QB on the team, you're mistaken. Other than taking him out of one game because he didn't know they playbook well enough yet, the only reason they went with Grossman for the later games in the season was because they were out of the playoff hunt and needed to see what they had with Rexy.

 

[thayman]

Not sure if I've said it much here, but I've been saying that I don't think it's a lock that he's gone. If he's still here when the season starts, I honestly think they'll start whoever they think gives them the best chance to win and I think McNabb, of all people, would handle that situation very well regardless of the outcome.

I've never been sure McNabb would be gone. I do not think they want him, but just like Haynesworth they're too stubborn to let him go until they get their ridiculous idea of "value" for him. I could easily see them keeping him as QB3 and deactivating him all season long. And I think Haynesworth will be on the team again this year, another dead roster spot.

I don't understand this reasoning. They obviously know he's the best QB on the roster...if they're going to pay him, they'll start him. His contract is the only reason they wouldn't keep him as the starting QB...do you think that deactivating him all season long would somehow save them $?If you're thinking that Shanahan somehow believes he's not the best QB on the team, you're mistaken. Other than taking him out of one game because he didn't know they playbook well enough yet, the only reason they went with Grossman for the later games in the season was because they were out of the playoff hunt and needed to see what they had with Rexy.

Were you around last year?

 

[Harjiran]

Not sure if I've said it much here, but I've been saying that I don't think it's a lock that he's gone. If he's still here when the season starts, I honestly think they'll start whoever they think gives them the best chance to win and I think McNabb, of all people, would handle that situation very well regardless of the outcome.

I've never been sure McNabb would be gone. I do not think they want him, but just like Haynesworth they're too stubborn to let him go until they get their ridiculous idea of "value" for him. I could easily see them keeping him as QB3 and deactivating him all season long. And I think Haynesworth will be on the team again this year, another dead roster spot.

I don't understand this reasoning. They obviously know he's the best QB on the roster...if they're going to pay him, they'll start him. His contract is the only reason they wouldn't keep him as the starting QB...do you think that deactivating him all season long would somehow save them $?If you're thinking that Shanahan somehow believes he's not the best QB on the team, you're mistaken. Other than taking him out of one game because he didn't know they playbook well enough yet, the only reason they went with Grossman for the later games in the season was because they were out of the playoff hunt and needed to see what they had with Rexy.

No, I believe that you're the one who is mistaken. It's not about who is the "best QB" on the team, it's about who is the best fit for Kyle Shanahan's offense, where accuracy and timing are tantamount. Mike Shanahan and Dan Snyder orchestrated the McNabb trade. Kyle Shanahan supposedly had reservations about McNabb but didn't voice them forcefully, perhaps because he's a young guy who thought it best to defer to his Dad and Snyder. Donovan McNabb is obviously a good QB but he just doesn't fit Kyle's system. They never should have traded for him.

 

[Eastwood]

Nice to see the Skins NOT get a C- or D like we've always had the last 5+ years...

Washington Redskins

16. Ryan Kerrigan, linebacker, Purdue.

41. Jarvis Jenkins, defensive end, Clemson.

79. Leonard Hankerson, wide receiver, Miami.

105. Roy Helu, running back, Nebraska.

146. DeJon Gomes, safety, Nebraska.

155. Niles Paul, wide receiver, Nebraska.

177. Evan Royster, running back, Penn State.

178. Aldrick Robinson, wide receiver, SMU.

213. Brandyn Thompson, cornerback, Boise State.

217. Maurice Hurt, guard, Florida.

224. Markus White, linebacker, Florida State.

253. Chris Neild, nose tackle, West Virginia.

Overview: The name of the game for Washington was trading down to recoup picks lost during the forgettable Vinny Cerrato era. But it's not like the Redskins didn't come away with good players. Entering the draft with the NFL's worst-looking roster, the Skins emerged with upwards of seven rookie-year starters. That's exactly the kind of rebuilding movement Washington needs to undergo. Kerrigan, Hankerson, and Helu were extremely productive per-play collegiates. In the late rounds, White and Neild stand out as rock-solid picks. The only reason Mike Shanahan's club doesn't get a full "A" is because it didn't pick up a quarterback.

Grade: A-

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Nice to see the Skins NOT get a C- or D like we've always had the last 5+ years...Washington Redskins16. Ryan Kerrigan, linebacker, Purdue.41. Jarvis Jenkins, defensive end, Clemson.79. Leonard Hankerson, wide receiver, Miami.105. Roy Helu, running back, Nebraska.146. DeJon Gomes, safety, Nebraska.155. Niles Paul, wide receiver, Nebraska.177. Evan Royster, running back, Penn State.178. Aldrick Robinson, wide receiver, SMU.213. Brandyn Thompson, cornerback, Boise State.217. Maurice Hurt, guard, Florida.224. Markus White, linebacker, Florida State.253. Chris Neild, nose tackle, West Virginia.Overview: The name of the game for Washington was trading down to recoup picks lost during the forgettable Vinny Cerrato era. But it's not like the Redskins didn't come away with good players. Entering the draft with the NFL's worst-looking roster, the Skins emerged with upwards of seven rookie-year starters. That's exactly the kind of rebuilding movement Washington needs to undergo. Kerrigan, Hankerson, and Helu were extremely productive per-play collegiates. In the late rounds, White and Neild stand out as rock-solid picks. The only reason Mike Shanahan's club doesn't get a full "A" is because it didn't pick up a quarterback.Grade: A-

Where was this from??

 

[fatness]

Brief summery of each draft pick by John Keim

 

[fatness]

But, in the end, the Redskins surprised all. They didn't draft a quarterback, despite having a record number of choices.

The reason appears to be that the Redskins think they already have that quarterback on the roster.

Head coach Mike Shanahan said John Beck, whom they acquired in an August trade with Baltimore, was his No. 1 rated quarterback coming out of college in 2007. JaMarcus Russell, Brady Quinn and Kevin Kolb were all drafted ahead of Beck.

"It wasn’t even close,” Shanahan said. “He has everything you look for in a quarterback. No. 1 you have to love the game, you have to have the mindset. What I’m looking for is a guy first to work and last to leave. You’ve got to be able to run this offense at a very high level. He can do things with his legs that a lot of quarterbacks can’t do.”

John Keim article

 

[Eastwood]

Nice to see the Skins NOT get a C- or D like we've always had the last 5+ years...Overview: The name of the game for Washington was trading down to recoup picks lost during the forgettable Vinny Cerrato era. But it's not like the Redskins didn't come away with good players. Entering the draft with the NFL's worst-looking roster, the Skins emerged with upwards of seven rookie-year starters. That's exactly the kind of rebuilding movement Washington needs to undergo. Kerrigan, Hankerson, and Helu were extremely productive per-play collegiates. In the late rounds, White and Neild stand out as rock-solid picks. The only reason Mike Shanahan's club doesn't get a full "A" is because it didn't pick up a quarterback.Grade: A-

Where was this from??

I believe Rotoworld, I'll go double check in case I'm wrong.

 

[Eastwood]

Another sign of our progress, getting 3 of the 14 best "steals" of the draft and NO reaches!

Steal and Reaches of the Draft

 

[mcintyre1]

Huge Nebraska homer here to throw in my opinions on the trio of Nebraska guys you picked up:

Helu: If you follow these boards closely, you'll know that I've been Helu's biggest proponent on here. That said, I wouldn't hand him the starting job just yet. He definitely has things to improve upon, but if he can learn to trust his body again (he's been constantly dinged in college), he could be a huge get.

Gomes: Criminally underrated. Doesn't have the elite measurables, but this kid is a player. Hits like a sledgehammer. Great instincts in coverage. Terrific knack for forcing fumbles (there are two occasions that I remember where Gomes ran down a player from behind and knocked the ball out right before they crossed the goal line, saving a TD). I know nothing about the Redskins Safeties, but this kid should be playing somewhere.

Paul: Good luck getting production out of him. Nebraska fans have always wanted to like Niles. He's a hometown kid with great measurables, but it just hasn't ever clicked for him. He's inconsistent catching the ball. One game he'll be the hero with 3 TDs and amazing plays. Next game he'll completely disappear, fumble, drop passes, the works. I'd be wary of him sticking on the roster, if not for his special teams play (and he really is an amazing blocker, he should be starting on kick returns as a blocker, if not returner).

 

[fatness]

Good news. We just drafted Terrell Davis and Clinton Portis.

“Coach Shanahan, he said to me when they drafted me that I remind him of Terrell Davis,” Royster said via Mike Jones of the Washington Post.

“With Helu we have something we haven’t had: speed, and he has great hands,” Shanahan said. Then Shanny compared Hulu to Portis as a young player. ”I look at Helu as having that type of ability, that type of speed.”

 

[fatness]

Another sign of our progress, getting 3 of the 14 best "steals" of the draft and NO reaches!

Steal and Reaches of the Draft

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Sebowski]

Another sign of our progress, getting 3 of the 14 best "steals" of the draft and NO reaches!

Steal and Reaches of the Draft

I try not to put too much stock in the after draft ratings stuff, but really liked this

Chris Neild/NT/Washington/Round 7/No. 253: The fact Neild was the second-to-last player selected is mind-blowing. He's a 320-pound slugger who brings his lunch pail to work every day and is a prospect coaches will love. Don't be surprised if he's starting by the end of his rookie season.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/nfl/04/30/draft.steals.reaches/index.html#ixzz1L8Zp6ykH

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

Haynesworth for a QB?

Posted on May 1, 2011 by Rich Tandler

You can add the name of Kyle Orton to the list of possible opening-day starting quarterbacks for the Washington Redskins.

Bill Williamson, the AFC West blogger for ESPN.com, wrote the following in his draft wrap up post:

The rumor mill in Denver is already spinning a Kyle Orton-Albert Haynesworth trade. Washington needs a quarterback and Denver needs defensive tackle. Makes sense, would Denver want to pay Haynesworth?

Orton is being displaced by Tim Tebow as the quarterback for the rebuilding Broncos. New Denver head coach John Fox is switching the Broncos to a 4-3 defense after they ran a 3-4 for two seasons and after not taking any defensive tackles in the draft they will need some.

Orton blossomed into a very competent starting quarterback after being sent to Denver in 2009 as part of the Jay Cutler trade. Any quarterback who can make Brandon Lloyd into an all-pro receiver has to be doing something right.

It would seem that a straight Haynesworth for Orton trade is unlikely given the relative value of the positions and the fact that Albert is, well, Albert. But perhaps Haynesworth as a throw-in would lower the draft pick needed to acquire Orton by a round or two.

It’s a long way from a spinning rumor mill in Denver to a new quarterback in Washington but this is something that bears watching if and when the lockout gets settled.

© 2011, Rich Tandler. All rights reserved.

 

[Sebowski]

I would really, really, prefer Haynesworth go to the AFC so I don;t even have to hear about him as much.

 

[buster c]

Gomes: Criminally underrated. Doesn't have the elite measurables, but this kid is a player. Hits like a sledgehammer. Great instincts in coverage. Terrific knack for forcing fumbles (there are two occasions that I remember where Gomes ran down a player from behind and knocked the ball out right before they crossed the goal line, saving a TD). I know nothing about the Redskins Safeties, but this kid should be playing somewhere.

sounds like the anti-Reid Doughty

 

[ChrisCooleyFan]

2012 Mock Draft

3. Washington Redskins: Matt Barkley, QB, USC. During ESPN's draft telecast this weekend, John Beck's name was floated as a possible starter. So yeah, the Redskins are taking a quarterback early next year.

 

[thayman]

The Redskins selected 12 players in this year's draft, more than any other team.

That is a statement I never thought I would say.

 

[thayman]

The Redskins selected 12 players in this year's draft, more than any other team.

That is a statement I never thought I would say.

 

[Tuco]

The Redskins selected 12 players in this year's draft, more than any other team.That is a statement I never thought I would say.

You can say that again.

 

[Sebowski]

The Redskins selected 12 players in this year's draft, more than any other team.That is a statement I never thought I would say.

You can say that again.

 

[MikeApf]

OK, now that the draft has been completed, we "supposedly" should have a better idea regarding what the Redskins will do in Free Agency. In the draft, it looks like we got guys who could contribute right away at some key positions. At other positions, we either still have holes or just got guys who may provide depth. With that said, how do you see the Redskins proceeding in Free Agency:

1. Linebacker -- there are at least 1 guy who can contribute right away: Kerrigan will probably start at OLB opposite of Orakpo, so I'll consider that done. Fletcher is coming back, so there's one inside LB. I can see them just rolling with existing talent for the other LB position: Blades, McIntosh, even moving Riley over...don't you think? So not high priority?

2. Defensive Line -- is Jenkins going to play Nose Tackle or Defensive End? If NT, do we go out and get a new Defensive End? If Defensive End, we almost have to go out and get a NT here. What do you see us doing? This still seems to be a higher priority.

3. Secondary -- Safeties seem to be set, with Landry and the guy they just brought in (can't remember his name). What about Corner? Hall is a lock. If they can get Rodgers to come back, he's still as good as what they can get elsewhere probably. Not high priority, right?

4. QB -- most think that the guys on roster now are just placeholders. That said, there are three schools of thought going forward: a.) Beck is the man of the future...no need to get someone different. b.) Go with what we have now and get a QB next year. If Snyder is willing to give Shanahan time, there is nothing wrong with this, even if it takes us longer to rebuild. The only downside to waiting is if there is pressure to win NOW...is this a real dynamic or a ghost of the past? c.) Go out and get someone like Orton who is both young and could win now. I do not like talk of going out and getting someone like Palmer, because that is like McNabb, part 2. Probably the biggest Question Mark for me.

5. RB -- they appear to want to go with what they have. Torrain, when healthy, is a legit starter based on what he showed last year. If they can get one of the new guys to platoon with him, they could be ok at RB next year. I don't see us going and getting a RB in FA...what do you think?

6. WR -- they appear to want to go with what they have. Armstrong as one starter. Hankerson almost certainly is penciled in as another starter. You need one more young guy to plug in...I think they'll try to go with the crew they have now...what do you think?

7. TE -- set, obviously.

8. OL -- still a big question mark. Williams is the only "lock," though I could see them bringing back several of the others, particularly Rabach and Lichtensteiger. But, it seems almost certain that this is the other high priority target out there.

In sum, it seems like their top priorities need to be:

Defensive Line (either NT or end)

1 or 2 Offensive Lineman

Second tier

QB

Corner (if Rodgers is sent packing)

Third tier

Everything else.

What do you think? And who is out there that you would target?

 

[Jason Wood]

What's the angle here? Shanahan really can't be convincing ANYONE, his team included, that he really has confidence in John Beck, right?

 

[dgreen]

1. Linebacker -- there are at least 1 guy who can contribute right away: Kerrigan will probably start at OLB opposite of Orakpo, so I'll consider that done. Fletcher is coming back, so there's one inside LB. I can see them just rolling with existing talent for the other LB position: Blades, McIntosh, even moving Riley over...don't you think? So not high priority?

If Kerrigan's a quality player, then they should have good talent at 3 of the 4 LB positions. Assuming that, I'd live with what we have at the other ILB spot.

2. Defensive Line -- is Jenkins going to play Nose Tackle or Defensive End? If NT, do we go out and get a new Defensive End? If Defensive End, we almost have to go out and get a NT here. What do you see us doing? This still seems to be a higher priority.

I'm sure they'll make a run at Ngata.

3. Secondary -- Safeties seem to be set, with Landry and the guy they just brought in (can't remember his name). What about Corner? Hall is a lock. If they can get Rodgers to come back, he's still as good as what they can get elsewhere probably. Not high priority, right?

Who knows what the cap will be like, but they may also try for Asomugha or some other FA. Not sure they'd go after both Ngata and Asomugha, but one is a strong possibility. But, I agree with you that they are pretty good here and DL is a higher priority. But, I'd fill CB before ILB.

4. QB -- Probably the biggest Question Mark for me.

Yep. No idea what's going to happen here, but I think just about anything is in play.

5. RB -- they appear to want to go with what they have. Torrain, when healthy, is a legit starter based on what he showed last year. If they can get one of the new guys to platoon with him, they could be ok at RB next year. I don't see us going and getting a RB in FA...what do you think?

Agreed. Torain and the draft picks should work.

6. WR -- they appear to want to go with what they have. Armstrong as one starter. Hankerson almost certainly is penciled in as another starter. You need one more young guy to plug in...I think they'll try to go with the crew they have now...what do you think?

As has been the case for years, this will almost certainly leave us without a true WR1. I like Armstrong as a great WR3 and solid WR2. I think it would be crazy to assume Hankerson can come in and successfully fill a WR1 or WR2 spot in his first year. Even if you think he projects to that, it's crazy to think he'll be there in year one.I'd like to see Banks get more offensive snaps in the slot. He could be really dangerous there.Maybe they still believe Kelly can contribute?

8. OL -- still a big question mark. Williams is the only "lock," though I could see them bringing back several of the others, particularly Rabach and Lichtensteiger. But, it seems almost certain that this is the other high priority target out there.

One or two spots almost have to be filled in FA for this to be a good line this year.

 

[Sidewinder16]

What's the angle here? Shanahan really can't be convincing ANYONE, his team included, that he really has confidence in John Beck, right?

Some of the headlines from Shanahan's post-draft presser seem to be misleading, at best. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I can guarantee he didn't name Beck the starter. The WaPo blog account says this: "Pressed further on whether the decision not to draft a quarterback indicated Washington already has its passer on the roster, Shanahan expressed a belief in the ability of John Beck, who was the third string quarterback last season." That's when Shanahan made his positive comments re: Beck. Since Grossman isn't under contract and the McNabb situation is still the McNabb situation, he didn't really have any other QBs to talk about other than Beck. I didn't see any direct quotes that were very outlandish or far-fetched.Was there something he said that you completely disagreed with?

 

[fatness]

Just a couple notes:

McIntosh is likely gone this year.

S. Moss may be gone this year.

Ngata was franchised by the Ravens.

 

[Jason Wood]

What's the angle here? Shanahan really can't be convincing ANYONE, his team included, that he really has confidence in John Beck, right?

Some of the headlines from Shanahan's post-draft presser seem to be misleading, at best. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I can guarantee he didn't name Beck the starter. The WaPo blog account says this: "Pressed further on whether the decision not to draft a quarterback indicated Washington already has its passer on the roster, Shanahan expressed a belief in the ability of John Beck, who was the third string quarterback last season." That's when Shanahan made his positive comments re: Beck. Since Grossman isn't under contract and the McNabb situation is still the McNabb situation, he didn't really have any other QBs to talk about other than Beck. I didn't see any direct quotes that were very outlandish or far-fetched.Was there something he said that you completely disagreed with?

Your comments are helpful I read about Shanny's comments re: Beck and thought, out of context, how incredulous they appear. It sounds like you took it to be more of his backing the only guy there is to back right now. Would you agree that there's no conceivable way he plans on entering the season with Beck as the odds on starter?

 

[Sidewinder16]

I read about Shanny's comments re: Beck and thought, out of context, how incredulous they appear. It sounds like you took it to be more of his backing the only guy there is to back right now. Would you agree that there's no conceivable way he plans on entering the season with Beck as the odds on starter?

Yes, I think he was simply backing the only guy that's there to back. I don't think his praise was disingenuous, but I also don't think it means anymore than they like having Beck on their roster.At the moment, no, I don't believe Shanahan's plans are for Beck to be the #1. I think Beck will be allowed to compete for the #1 spot, in as much as I don't think Shanahan simply considers him a warm body that can run the scout team. But, I think they'll try to re-sign Grossman and probably go after a veteran through FA/trade and in the end Beck will, at best, be the #2.

 

[Sebowski]

6. WR -- they appear to want to go with what they have. Armstrong as one starter. Hankerson almost certainly is penciled in as another starter. You need one more young guy to plug in...I think they'll try to go with the crew they have now...what do you think?

Totally disagree here. I see them making a play for at least one big time WR. I'd love to get VJax here and resign Santana. Sidney Rice deserves a long look too. Even Ocho would make some sense.

 

[Steed]

I'm trying to find how many trades they made in the draft and how many of them were trading up like they did for Helu. Anyone know?

 

[Sidewinder16]

I'm trying to find how many trades they made in the draft and how many of them were trading up like they did for Helu. Anyone know?

If this lists all of them (and I think it does) then the 'Skins traded down 4 times and traded up once, to get Helu.

 

[Sidewinder16]

6. WR -- they appear to want to go with what they have. Armstrong as one starter. Hankerson almost certainly is penciled in as another starter. You need one more young guy to plug in...I think they'll try to go with the crew they have now...what do you think?

Totally disagree here. I see them making a play for at least one big time WR. I'd love to get VJax here and resign Santana. Sidney Rice deserves a long look too. Even Ocho would make some sense.

I would love to see them re-sign Moss at the right price, which will probably be difficult after a career year in receptions. He was (finally) used so effectively last season as a slot receiver.

 

[fatness]

Would you agree that there's no conceivable way he plans on entering the season with Beck as the odds on starter?

No. I think, given the current state of affairs, that Beck and Grossman would compete for the starting job in training camp and that the winner would start. I also think there may be another veteran QB or QB's added to the roster before the season starts, and it's impossible to speculate on whom. I don't sense that Shanahan is particularly worried about QB this year. He just wants someone who can run the game, not contribute to losing, and can avoid or withstand a beating.

 

[Sidewinder16]

What's the angle here? Shanahan really can't be convincing ANYONE, his team included, that he really has confidence in John Beck, right?

Some of the headlines from Shanahan's post-draft presser seem to be misleading, at best. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I can guarantee he didn't name Beck the starter. The WaPo blog account says this: "Pressed further on whether the decision not to draft a quarterback indicated Washington already has its passer on the roster, Shanahan expressed a belief in the ability of John Beck, who was the third string quarterback last season." That's when Shanahan made his positive comments re: Beck. Since Grossman isn't under contract and the McNabb situation is still the McNabb situation, he didn't really have any other QBs to talk about other than Beck. I didn't see any direct quotes that were very outlandish or far-fetched.Was there something he said that you completely disagreed with?

Your comments are helpful I read about Shanny's comments re: Beck and thought, out of context, how incredulous they appear. It sounds like you took it to be more of his backing the only guy there is to back right now. Would you agree that there's no conceivable way he plans on entering the season with Beck as the odds on starter?

buster, please stop pissing in the Pool. If you have some personal beef w/ Jason, take it to PMs. Your sophomoric name calling is obnoxious and takes away from the thread. He had a legitimate question regarding the ridiculous headlines that were being made following Shanahan's comments on Beck. He wasn't the only one being mislead by them.

 

[Harjiran]

What's the angle here? Shanahan really can't be convincing ANYONE, his team included, that he really has confidence in John Beck, right?

Some of the headlines from Shanahan's post-draft presser seem to be misleading, at best. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I can guarantee he didn't name Beck the starter. The WaPo blog account says this: "Pressed further on whether the decision not to draft a quarterback indicated Washington already has its passer on the roster, Shanahan expressed a belief in the ability of John Beck, who was the third string quarterback last season." That's when Shanahan made his positive comments re: Beck. Since Grossman isn't under contract and the McNabb situation is still the McNabb situation, he didn't really have any other QBs to talk about other than Beck. I didn't see any direct quotes that were very outlandish or far-fetched.Was there something he said that you completely disagreed with?

Your comments are helpful I read about Shanny's comments re: Beck and thought, out of context, how incredulous they appear. It sounds like you took it to be more of his backing the only guy there is to back right now. Would you agree that there's no conceivable way he plans on entering the season with Beck as the odds on starter?

buster, please stop pissing in the Pool. If you have some personal beef w/ Jason, take it to PMs. Your sophomoric name calling is obnoxious and takes away from the thread. He had a legitimate question regarding the ridiculous headlines that were being made following Shanahan's comments on Beck. He wasn't the only one being mislead by them.

My post actually added to the thread by noting a few nuggets about Beck's offseason preparation and Shanny's comments on him as a collegian. They have not been reported elsewhere in this thread to my knowledge. But Mr Thin Skin deleted them. And your name calling is as sophomoric and obnoxious as mine. At least I'm not a hypocrite about it.

For the record, if Beck is our starting QB in 2011, I'm lowering my win forecast from 4 to 2.

Pretty lame that Buster's comments were deleted. I didn't see anything offensive there.

 

[thayman]

What's the angle here? Shanahan really can't be convincing ANYONE, his team included, that he really has confidence in John Beck, right?

Some of the headlines from Shanahan's post-draft presser seem to be misleading, at best. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I can guarantee he didn't name Beck the starter. The WaPo blog account says this: "Pressed further on whether the decision not to draft a quarterback indicated Washington already has its passer on the roster, Shanahan expressed a belief in the ability of John Beck, who was the third string quarterback last season." That's when Shanahan made his positive comments re: Beck. Since Grossman isn't under contract and the McNabb situation is still the McNabb situation, he didn't really have any other QBs to talk about other than Beck. I didn't see any direct quotes that were very outlandish or far-fetched.Was there something he said that you completely disagreed with?

Your comments are helpful I read about Shanny's comments re: Beck and thought, out of context, how incredulous they appear. It sounds like you took it to be more of his backing the only guy there is to back right now. Would you agree that there's no conceivable way he plans on entering the season with Beck as the odds on starter?

buster, please stop pissing in the Pool. If you have some personal beef w/ Jason, take it to PMs. Your sophomoric name calling is obnoxious and takes away from the thread. He had a legitimate question regarding the ridiculous headlines that were being made following Shanahan's comments on Beck. He wasn't the only one being mislead by them.

My post actually added to the thread by noting a few nuggets about Beck's offseason preparation and Shanny's comments on him as a collegian. They have not been reported elsewhere in this thread to my knowledge. But Mr Thin Skin deleted them. And your name calling is as sophomoric and obnoxious as mine. At least I'm not a hypocrite about it.

For the record, if Beck is our starting QB in 2011, I'm lowering my win forecast from 4 to 2.

Pretty lame that Buster's comments were deleted. I didn't see anything offensive there.

Some of the mods here don't like being bad mouthed.

 

[Sebowski]

What's the angle here? Shanahan really can't be convincing ANYONE, his team included, that he really has confidence in John Beck, right?

Some of the headlines from Shanahan's post-draft presser seem to be misleading, at best. I haven't actually watched it yet, but I can guarantee he didn't name Beck the starter. The WaPo blog account says this: "Pressed further on whether the decision not to draft a quarterback indicated Washington already has its passer on the roster, Shanahan expressed a belief in the ability of John Beck, who was the third string quarterback last season." That's when Shanahan made his positive comments re: Beck. Since Grossman isn't under contract and the McNabb situation is still the McNabb situation, he didn't really have any other QBs to talk about other than Beck. I didn't see any direct quotes that were very outlandish or far-fetched.Was there something he said that you completely disagreed with?

Your comments are helpful I read about Shanny's comments re: Beck and thought, out of context, how incredulous they appear. It sounds like you took it to be more of his backing the only guy there is to back right now. Would you agree that there's no conceivable way he plans on entering the season with Beck as the odds on starter?

buster, please stop pissing in the Pool. If you have some personal beef w/ Jason, take it to PMs. Your sophomoric name calling is obnoxious and takes away from the thread. He had a legitimate question regarding the ridiculous headlines that were being made following Shanahan's comments on Beck. He wasn't the only one being mislead by them.

My post actually added to the thread by noting a few nuggets about Beck's offseason preparation and Shanny's comments on him as a collegian. They have not been reported elsewhere in this thread to my knowledge. But Mr Thin Skin deleted them. And your name calling is as sophomoric and obnoxious as mine. At least I'm not a hypocrite about it.

For the record, if Beck is our starting QB in 2011, I'm lowering my win forecast from 4 to 2.

Pretty lame that Buster's comments were deleted. I didn't see anything offensive there.

Some of the mods here don't like being bad mouthed.

Back to brass tax....

I hear beck had a great Pro Day!

 

[dgreen]

As the roster stands today (including all drafted players), I assume this is the starting lineup if they were to play this Sunday:

QB McNabb

RB Torain

FB Sellers

WR Armstrong

WR Hankerson

TE Cooley

LT Williams

LG Lichtensteiger

C Rabach

RG Montgomery

RT Heyer

DE Carriker

NT Jenkins

DE Golston

OLB Orakpo

ILB Fletcher

ILB McIntosh

OLB Kerrigan

CB Hall

CB Barnes

FS Atogwe

SS Landry

KR Banks

PR Banks

K Gano

P Bidwell

Any of these guys actually not on the team right now?

 

[Dexter Manley]

As the roster stands today (including all drafted players), I assume this is the starting lineup if they were to play this Sunday:

QB McNabb

RB Torain

FB Sellers

WR Armstrong

WR Hankerson

TE Cooley

LT Williams

LG Lichtensteiger

C Rabach

RG Montgomery

RT Heyer

DE Carriker

NT JenkinsDE Golston

OLB Orakpo

ILB Fletcher

ILB McIntosh

OLB Kerrigan

CB Hall

CB Barnes

FS Atogwe

SS Landry

KR Banks

PR Banks

K Gano

P Bidwell

Any of these guys actually not on the team right now?

Jenkins is a 5 technique and was drafted to play RDE. He is NOT a NT.Also, I thought Golston was a FA.

I'm assuming Kemo or the backup NT from last year who's name escapes me, would be the starting NT right now.

And I would be shocked if McNabb is on the opening day roster (unless the lockout goes right up until the beginning of the season) let alone that he ever starts another game for the Skins.

Also, I would project Gomes to be the starting nickel back.

 

[Dexter Manley]

More love and information on Beck:http://blog.redskins.com/2011/05/03/looking-at-john-beck-as-a-qb-prospect/

Looking At John Beck As A QB ProspectPosted May 3rd 2011 11:19AM by Matt Terl (author feed)Shortly after the NFL Draft ended, Mike Shanahan addressed the assembled D.C. media. He answered questions about the individual draft picks, about moving up and down the board, about coming away with 12 players ... and about how none of those players was a quarterback.But Shanahan framed the conversation a little differently than most people were. Instead of talking about how he hadn't drafted a quarterback, or the difficulties with Donovan McNabb, or the enigma that is Rex Grossman, he talked favorably about John Beck.Very, very favorably."When John Beck did come out, I had him as the top-ranked quarterback coming out that year, and I didn't even think it was close," Shanahan said. "I've got a lot of confidence in John Beck," Shanahan said."I think the world of him," Shanahan said."He has not disappointed me since he's been here," Shanahan said.Response to this has been ... mixed, shall we say. People are not inclined to believe that a thirty year-old acquired literally for nothing (the Redskins were able to later re-sign the player they gave up for Beck) can suddenly blossom into a viable starter, and I can't really blame them.But what if you view Beck -- despite his age -- as more of a QB prospect just hitting his breakout year, not as an NFL journeyman?Before I get to that, though: I know perfectly well that mounting any sort of defense of The Beck Philosophy is going to get me called an idiot, a rube, a shill, and probably worse. Which is understandable, because Beck's pro career thus far has been underwhelming. He played in just five games after the Dolphins drafted him in the second round (starting four), all in his 2007 rookie year, and even that experience was because Trent Green got concussed (as Trent Green does) and Cleo Lemon couldn't seem to get the job done.In those five games, Beck completed 56.1 percent of his passes for 559 yards with 1 touchdown and 3 interceptions, along with 5 fumbles. The Dolphins won none of those games. Obviously, none of this sounds very promising at all. But Beck was a rookie project; rookie quarterbacks struggle.You can't read too much into the fact that he didn't return to the starting position the next year. Cam Cameron, the head coach that drafted Beck, was fired, and the new head coach brought in his own guys. Beck rode the bench behind those two -- Chad Pennington and Chad Henne -- for a season before being cut. Cameron, by then the offensive coordinator in Baltimore, brought Beck in to back up Joe Flacco for a year before ultimately seeing him traded to the Redskins.So let's all agree that there's not a lot of positives there. Understood. In fact, I'll be even more frank: when I watched Beck in training camp and the preseason last year, nothing notable jumped out at me about his game. (It's worth noting, though, that he now has a year on the bench in this offense, which is exactly how much experience Rex Grossman had in it prior to last year.)But at least one of Shanahan's positives about Beck reflected on his pre-draft rating of the guy, and -- as I mentioned above -- if you think of Beck as a prospect entering his fifth year who might now be ready to take charge, stronger glimmers of hope emerge. His college numbers were very good -- he finished his career as the second all-time leading passer in BYU history -- but that's no surprise. You don't get drafted in the second round of the NFL Draft without SOME promising statistics. It's his non-statistical pre-draft measures that most intrigue me, though. In the run-up to this year's draft, I came across two separate but compatible ways of evaluating quarterbacks in the draft: The Rule Of 26-27-60, and The Parcells Principle. Each of those two philosophies amounts to a checklist that you can apply to QB prospects, and -- taken together -- they form a surprisingly solid indicator of success. (Click throught the links to the original articles to see much more legwork, much of it undertaken by Kevin Ewoldt at Hogs Haven.)So, building off of my "Beck Was Drafted As A Prospect And Maybe Now He's Ready Theory," I dug up his college numbers and put him through the whole checklist. Here are the results.THE RULE OF 26-27-601) Wonderlic of greater than 26? Yes. Wonderlic scores aren't officially released, but Beck has been variously reported as a 34, a 30, and a 35. All of those are greater than 26, so I'm calling it a yes.2) More than 27 college starts? Yes. Beck had 43.3) College completion percentage of 60% or better? Beck finished college completing 62.4% of his passes.Beck sails past the Rule of 26-27-60 without any problem. THE PARCELLS PRINCIPLE1) Must be a senior. Beck was, indeed, a senior when he entered the draft.2) Must be a graduate. Beck had, indeed, graduated when he entered the draft.3) Must be a three-year starter. Beck did indeed start for three years in college.4) Must have 23 wins. This is the one Beck comes closest to missing. His BYU Cougars won 23 games that he started, but Beck left one of those games -- a 2004 contest -- with an injury. I'm giving it to him, but I suppose you could argue it either way.The only prospect in the 2010 draft who also cleared all seven of those hurdles was TCU quarterback Andy Dalton, who happens to be a player that a lot of fans seemed to want the Redskins to select. And Dalton might very well excel in the NFL. But Beck has the undeniable advantage over Dalton of experience -- in the NFL, and in Kyle Shanahan's system. If you think of Beck as a Dalton-level prospect, and you consider the fact that so many quarterbacks struggle in their rookie years, maybe Beck's difficulties in Miami work in his favor now. Maybe the rookie difficulties are out of the way, and he's ready to become a star in Kyle Shanahan's offense. (It happened to Matt Schaub in a similar way; his three Atlanta years are unremarkable at best, as is his first year in Houston. Now he's one of the league's most prolific passers.)Or maybe this is all wishful thinking and John Beck is the quarterback we saw in Miami, nothing more. That's certainly still in play. But -- for all the reasons listed above, plus the fact that Shanahan seems to believe in him -- I'm willing to at least consider the possibility that John Beck could be a legitimate NFL starter, possibly as soon as this season.

 

[MikeApf]

For kicks I went back and looked at the 2007 draft to see why Shanny said that John was the best QB of that class. Interesting to note that in the first round, JaBustus Russel and Brady Quinn were picked. Then in the second, it went Kolb, Beck and Stanton. So Shanny saw Beck as being better than Kolb with it "not even being close." Amazing when you think about how many folks see Kolb as the big FA savior at QB this year...

1 Oakland Raiders JaMarcus Russell QB Louisiana State

2 Detroit Lions Calvin Johnson WR Georgia Tech

3 Cleveland Browns Joe Thomas OT Wisconsin

4 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Gaines Adams DE Clemson

5 Arizona Cardinals Levi Brown OT Penn State

6 Washington Redskins LaRon Landry SS Louisiana State

7 Minnesota Vikings Adrian Peterson RB Oklahoma

8 Atlanta Falcons Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas

9 Miami Dolphins Ted Ginn Jr. WR Ohio State

10 Houston Texans Amobi Okoye DT Louisville

11 San Francisco 49ers Patrick Willis ILB Mississippi

12 Buffalo Bills Marshawn Lynch RB California

13 St. Louis Rams Adam Carriker NT Nebraska

14 New York Jets Darrelle Revis CB Pittsburgh

15 Pittsburgh Steelers Lawrence Timmons LB Florida State

16 Green Bay Packers Justin Harrell DT Tennessee

17 Denver Broncos Jarvis Moss DE Florida

18 Cincinnati Bengals Leon Hall CB Michigan

19 Tennessee Titans Michael Griffin FS Texas

20 New York Giants Aaron Ross CB Texas

21 Jacksonville Jaguars Reggie Nelson FS Florida

22 Cleveland Browns Brady Quinn QB Notre Dame

23 Kansas City Chiefs Dwayne Bowe WR Louisiana State

24 New England Patriots Brandon Meriweather DB Miami (Fla.)

25 Carolina Panthers Jon Beason MLB Miami (Fla.)

26 Dallas Cowboys Anthony Spencer OLB Purdue

27 New Orleans Saints Robert Meachem WR Tennessee

28 San Francisco 49ers Joe Staley OT Central Michigan

29 Baltimore Ravens Ben Grubbs G Auburn

30 San Diego Chargers Craig Davis WR Louisiana State

31 Chicago Bears Greg Olsen TE Miami (Fla.)

32 Indianapolis Colts Anthony Gonzalez WR Ohio State

2007 - Round 2

SEL # TEAM PLAYER POSITION SCHOOL

33 Arizona Cardinals Alan Branch DT Michigan

34 Buffalo Bills Paul Posluszny MLB Penn State

35 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Arron Sears G Tennessee

36 Philadelphia Eagles Kevin Kolb QB Houston

37 San Diego Chargers Eric Weddle SAF Utah

38 Oakland Raiders Zach Miller TE Arizona State

39 Atlanta Falcons Justin Blalock G Texas

40 Miami Dolphins John Beck QB Brigham Young

41 Atlanta Falcons Chris Houston CB Arkansas

42 Indianapolis Colts Tony Ugoh T Arkansas

43 Detroit Lions Drew Stanton QB Michigan State

44 Minnesota Vikings Sidney Rice WR South Carolina

45 Carolina Panthers Dwayne Jarrett WR USC

46 Pittsburgh Steelers LaMarr Woodley LB Michigan

47 New York Jets David Harris ILB Michigan

48 Jacksonville Jaguars Justin Durant OLB Hampton

49 Cincinnati Bengals Kenny Irons RB Auburn

50 Tennessee Titans Chris Henry RB Arizona

51 New York Giants Steve Smith WR USC

52 St. Louis Rams Brian Leonard RB Rutgers

53 Cleveland Browns Eric Wright CB Nevada-Las Vegas

54 Kansas City Chiefs Turk McBride DE Tennessee

55 Seattle Seahawks Josh Wilson CB Maryland

56 Denver Broncos Tim Crowder DE Texas

57 Philadelphia Eagles Victor Abiamiri DE Notre Dame

58 Detroit Lions Ikaika Alama-Francis DE Hawaii

59 Carolina Panthers Ryan Kalil C USC

60 Miami Dolphins Samson Satele C Hawaii

61 Detroit Lions Gerald Alexander FS Boise State

62 Chicago Bears Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan

63 Green Bay Packers Brandon Jackson RB Nebraska

64 Tampa Bay Buccaneers Sabby Piscitelli SAF Oregon State

So, here's how the QBs went down:

 

[Sidewinder16]

As the roster stands today (including all drafted players), I assume this is the starting lineup if they were to play this Sunday:ILB McIntoshAny of these guys actually not on the team right now?

Isn't McIntosh a FA?Also, IIRC, I heard at least a few comments following the Niles Paul pick about his return abilities. I think there's a decent chance he shares some of the return duties with Banks.