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***OFFICIAL*** Washington Redskins 2011 Offseason Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ChrisCooleyFan
- Start date
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/26/jarvis-jenkins-tore-his-acl-thursday-night/Jenkins out for the year with a torn ACL. This is big blow to a defense that has really been playing well. Crap.
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southeastjerome
Footballguy
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUDDDDDDDGE!!! 
Jenkins looked so good out there. I was sure he would make a significant impact this year. His attitude and youth was really a breath of fresh air. This is very disappointing news.
Jenkins looked so good out there. I was sure he would make a significant impact this year. His attitude and youth was really a breath of fresh air. This is very disappointing news.
eakfootball
Footballguy
Jason LaConfora reports Jarvis Jenkins has a torn ACL. Too bad for him, looked good yesterday.
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BallparkFrank
Footballguy
What's the latest on Torain, is he full go in practice and ready to play the majority of the final preseason game? I have him eating up a valuable dynasty slot and am torn on whether to keep or ditch. Any updates would be appreciated.
Seriously. When I saw that he said doctors told him his ACL "felt a little loose" I knew it was over. He was a real darkhorse candidate for defensive rookie of the year. Hopefully he comes back next year at close to 100%.
valhallan
Footballguy
Shanny said he's expected to play the final game. From what I've seen and heard around here, it seems Tim Hightower has the job locked up. He understands the system, attacks the holes, and blocks very well. Torain is still capable of putting up numbers, but I don't see how he can start over Hightower at this point. Helu will also get some looks. Torain is likely getting cut from my dynasty squad.
One observation: The 2nd string OL was (from left to right): Willie Smith, Hurt, Cook, Hicks, Locklear. Hick and Locklear may have been switched. Overall, the 2nd string OL is much worse than the starters. Also, it looks like Capers will not make the team and may not make the practice squad.
fatness
Footballguy
I agree; against the Ravens he made it impossible to cut him. I like the way they use him as a WR -- get him the ball in positions where he can make one move and then be off and running like a kick return. Austin looked good.
fatness
Footballguy
Damn. Just damn. That guy was surprising everyone by playing so well and it looked like he was headed for a starting role at some point this year.Damn.
fatness
Footballguy
John Keim has done 2 in-depth articles since the game and he mentioned how bad the second O-line unit was. Ten observations.
Tale of the tape.
fatness
Footballguy
By the way, read those 2 articles from Keim that I just linked. He goes into a lot of detail.Both lines looked noticeably better than last year. Man I hope that continues throughout the season. Even to have an average o-line and d-line would be so much progress over last year's mess. The d-line does get fooled on cutback runs, and the LB's just look lost in pass coverage if it's more than 5-7 yards downfield, which the Ravens figured out during the second quarter last night. But there was also frequent pressure from the d-line that we never saw last year, and plays were disrupted. Kerrigan needs to calm down and stop the neutral zone infractions, but I think he'll manage that. I saw Cofield in the backfield frequently. Didn't notice Bowen as much. Losing Jenkins is a tough blow. Fred Davis looked good blocking, but the best block of the night was Trent Williams plowing Ray Lewis backwards about 10 yards downfield during Hightower's TD run. There were several good blocks on that play.
I am hoping they can find some OL depth from the roster cuts of other teams. Hicks probably has a roster spot. Locklear too, although he really has not done much to distinguish himself. Cook is probalby making the roster, although if they can find a better backup center, I could see him going to the practice squad. Hurt may or may not be practice squad material. They definately need another player or two for OL depth.
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Sidewinder16
Footballguy
New offer received today and the price has come down. Now just $576 (+ seat activation fee and S&H) per seat.
They stopped sending me emails. Maybe I was kicked off the waiting list after I did not buy tickets the last few years.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
lol, I'm sure if you signed back up on "The List" that you'd receive an e-mail in short order.
Heh, I didn't think you got taken off the list even if you died. How else it is 150,000+ or whatever is being claimed?I think it's more likely that you got a spam filter update and that's now blocking those e-mails. They clearly fit the definition of spam, after all.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Yesterday, Shanahan said in his presser that the cut from 90(ish) to 80 was the easy part. Reading between the lines, he basically said it would be guys that weren't NFL quality players anyways. This first round will be the fringe guys that were never going to make the roster like Derek Schouman, Isaac Anderson, Ben Chappell, Eric McBride, Clint Stitser, etc.I don't predict any surprises today. If/when Sellers and Kelly get the axe, it will be after the last preseason game.
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dgreen
Footballguy
Yeah, no reason to cut either of those guys yet. I wouldn't be totally surprised if they cut Kelly today, but I doubt they will. I'd be shocked if they cut Sellers today.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
They are basically waiting until Kelly is healthy before cutting him. Otherwise, they have to cough up an injury settlement. It sounded like Shanahan was hoping he could practice some time this week and participate in the last game, so I don't think Kelly's release comes until later this week.I'm starting to think Sellers may have an outside shot at making the roster. As a backup FB/TE and strong ST player he may have enough value to justify keeping him. I think one of him or Keiland Williams will stay.
massraider
Footballguy
Josh Wilson starting, yeah?
Why not. We are thin at depth at the OL position. If he is flexible to play multiple positions along the line, that would be great. But would he demand too much money for a backup?The Skins should sign Andre Gurode as a final F U to Haynesworth.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
If he's healthy, he should be.
fatness
Footballguy
Yeah, they did. And they cut some names I've never heard.
I heard Chris Russell on ESPN 980 discuss how the roster would shape up some of the positions.
At rb, Hightower, Helu, Torrain, and Young are locks to make the roster. That leave Keiland Williams and Mike Sellers battling for a roster spot. Williams can be 4th RB, bur really is not a RB (and a bit small to be a FB). Sellers is a FB, but not really a TE. Both play special teams. It may come down to would they rather have a 24 year old special teamer or s 36 year old special teamer.
At WR, Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, and Austin are locks. That leave Stallworth, Paul, and Banks battling for 1, maybe, but probalby not 2, roster spots. Russell did not like Banks chances, although most people he has talked to are more optimistic. He thought Banks injury issues make him too questionable to devote a roster spot. Russell also strongly felt Paul is the type of player you want to keep and develop, so he would keep him over Stallworth. I don't think he gave much info on which way people inside the organization were leaning.
At rb, Hightower, Helu, Torrain, and Young are locks to make the roster. That leave Keiland Williams and Mike Sellers battling for a roster spot. Williams can be 4th RB, bur really is not a RB (and a bit small to be a FB). Sellers is a FB, but not really a TE. Both play special teams. It may come down to would they rather have a 24 year old special teamer or s 36 year old special teamer.
At WR, Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, and Austin are locks. That leave Stallworth, Paul, and Banks battling for 1, maybe, but probalby not 2, roster spots. Russell did not like Banks chances, although most people he has talked to are more optimistic. He thought Banks injury issues make him too questionable to devote a roster spot. Russell also strongly felt Paul is the type of player you want to keep and develop, so he would keep him over Stallworth. I don't think he gave much info on which way people inside the organization were leaning.
fatness
Footballguy
Assuming it's shaping up the way Russell says, I think they'll keep Williams over Sellers. Sellers has been declining for years while Williams is not, Sellers can't be a RB (and Williams can), and Williams is a better receiver.
I think they'll keep 6 WR's, and I think Stallworth will be one of them. Regardless of his legal history I don't think I've ever read a bad thing about him from coaches or players on the teams he's been on. And when he's not hurt (which unfortunately he is a lot) he gets open a lot. With a still-questionable O-line and 2 mediocre QB's, the team needs WR's who will be in the right spot at the right time and will get open.
I think they'll keep 6 WR's, and I think Stallworth will be one of them. Regardless of his legal history I don't think I've ever read a bad thing about him from coaches or players on the teams he's been on. And when he's not hurt (which unfortunately he is a lot) he gets open a lot. With a still-questionable O-line and 2 mediocre QB's, the team needs WR's who will be in the right spot at the right time and will get open.
I think Niles Paul's fate depends on whether Shanahan believes he will clear waivers. I read last year that Shanahan fully believe and treats the practice squad players as part of the team. So if Paul can pass through waivers, Shanahan basically gets to keep both Paul and another WR. Also, keeping 6 WR seems reasonable if you have both Hankerson and Paul as developmental, rookie WRs. Also, with Armstrong and Austin both in their 2nd year, that is quite a bit of youth at WR. I really believe that if Banks has any setback with his knee between now and cut day, he is heading for IR. Like Russell believes, I don't think they can deveote a roster spot to someone who may not be available to them for many games, especially at the start of the season. If Banks stays healthy through the preseason game and looks explosive, then the Redskins may keep him.
Czabe's theory (and Russell's too, but to a lesser extent) is that they only carry 2 QBs and give Banks the spot that the 3rd QB would take. Then make him active or inactive depending on how his knee is. He believes that Kellen Clemens won't get picked up by anyone and if Beck or Rex gets hurt, then they can resign Clemens.
IMHO, the Sellers v. Williams battle should go to Williams on the age basis alone, although watching Sellers try to hurdle some tackler is always :money:
IMHO, the Sellers v. Williams battle should go to Williams on the age basis alone, although watching Sellers try to hurdle some tackler is always :money:
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Huh, color me wrong.If they were going to dole out an injury settlement anyways, why hang on to him this long? He hasn't been practicing, right?'Sidewinder16 said:
I thought it was very interesting that Ben Chappel was cut yesterday. I thought that was indication that Rex and Beck will play quite a bit in the last preseason game and that they may only keep two QBs.The still have another QB on the roster, Matt Gutierrez. He is in his 4th year and his career stats are 2-2 for 15 yards. He did not have an attempt in 2008 and was apparently out of the league in 2010. But he has completed 100% of his passes.I agree that the age difference give Williams a huge advantage over Sellers. If their special teams play is anywhere near close, they should go with Williams.
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I am thinking that if they got Kelley to practice a day and gave him a few plays in the final preseason game and then cut him without an injury settlement, the Redskins could end up with a grievance from the union and it may be difficult to defend. Kelley has been basically injured the entire preseason except for a few hours the first day of training camp.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I'm not sure it indicates how many QBs may end up on the opening day roster, but I think it's been the plan all along to have Rex and Beck play extensively in this last preseason game. I seem to have heard a few media members comment that a number of teams are treating this last game like the typical 3rd preseason game due to the time lost because of the lock out. With the 'Skins QB battle, it makes sense to get more game film to review of these guys, too.I just hope the 1st team OL doesn't stay out too long. If one of them gets seriously injured :knocksonwood: I think the chances of matching and/or improving on last seasons win total diminishes drastically.
fatness
Footballguy
The Gutierrez bandwagon began quietly in August, 2011, with a seemingly innocuous post by Marvelous.
dehaven123
Footballguy
I would prefer them to keep Paul. It is a lot of youth at WR this year but it would be nice to have those guys get some experience going into next year and the year after when the team is looking to be more competitve.
They got lucky with Torrain last season, let's not push it with Paul.My quick thoughts:
1. Grossman is the starter. He did not play, like most of the starters
2. Beck played the whole first half and did not look particularly good at any point.
3. Rob Jackson started the game and looked pretty good. He will probably make the team.
4. Sellers played a lot. Keiland Williams was only playing special teams. It looks like they are leaning on Sellers over Williams.
5. Anderson Russell and DeJon Gomes were the starting safeties. Otagwe, Landry, and Doughtly all did not play. Those 5 will probably make the final roster.
6. Chris Horton only played with the scrubs in the 2nd half. It does not look good for him.
7. Chris Neild played a lot. Anthony Bryant played sparingly and has played sparing though most of the preseaon. I think they are keeping Neild over Bryant.
8. I am not sure what to make of Daute Stallworth. He was playing special teams, so that is a sign that he is on the bubble.
9. Brandon Banks looks good. If he stays healthy between through Saturday, he makes the team.
10. I thought Markus White and Brandyn Thompson helped their cases to make the team.
11. Finally, Matt Guiterez played the whole 2nd half. I think he locked down the 4th qb position.
1. Grossman is the starter. He did not play, like most of the starters
2. Beck played the whole first half and did not look particularly good at any point.
3. Rob Jackson started the game and looked pretty good. He will probably make the team.
4. Sellers played a lot. Keiland Williams was only playing special teams. It looks like they are leaning on Sellers over Williams.
5. Anderson Russell and DeJon Gomes were the starting safeties. Otagwe, Landry, and Doughtly all did not play. Those 5 will probably make the final roster.
6. Chris Horton only played with the scrubs in the 2nd half. It does not look good for him.
7. Chris Neild played a lot. Anthony Bryant played sparingly and has played sparing though most of the preseaon. I think they are keeping Neild over Bryant.
8. I am not sure what to make of Daute Stallworth. He was playing special teams, so that is a sign that he is on the bubble.
9. Brandon Banks looks good. If he stays healthy between through Saturday, he makes the team.
10. I thought Markus White and Brandyn Thompson helped their cases to make the team.
11. Finally, Matt Guiterez played the whole 2nd half. I think he locked down the 4th qb position.
dgreen
Footballguy
He just can't be cut. I really don't care who just misses out on a roster spot in order to make sure Banks is on this team.
dgreen
Footballguy
Just going from what I've seen in preseason games, I'd go with Grossman. Beck just doesn't seem ready. But, if the coaching staff has confidence in Beck and he's shown them enough in meetings and practice, I don't have a problem with him being the starter.
WR is going to be tough. Like I said, Banks has to be on this team. That's going to probably mean the Redskins have to cut a decent WR prospect and hope to get him back on their PS. That's going to be a tough decision.
Assuming Landry and Atogwe are ready to go week 1, I like the starting D. Losing Jenkins sucks, but Carricker can retake his old starting spot and is a good replacement. LB appears to have good depth, but I'm not so sure about DL and DB.
This is going to be a long 9 days. And, once we're to Sunday, September 11, we have to wait until 4 PM.
WR is going to be tough. Like I said, Banks has to be on this team. That's going to probably mean the Redskins have to cut a decent WR prospect and hope to get him back on their PS. That's going to be a tough decision.
Assuming Landry and Atogwe are ready to go week 1, I like the starting D. Losing Jenkins sucks, but Carricker can retake his old starting spot and is a good replacement. LB appears to have good depth, but I'm not so sure about DL and DB.
This is going to be a long 9 days. And, once we're to Sunday, September 11, we have to wait until 4 PM.
On the radio this morning, heard ESPN 980 reported that they learned before last nights game:
1. Redskins are leaning on keeping 7 WRs. Stallworth and Banks were battling for the 7th spot.
2. Torrain and Royster were battling for the final RB spot
3. They are leaning towards cutting Sellers and Goldsten.
Comments from Polian and whoever was with him: Banks beat STallworth with his TD return, Royster did not help himself with a fumble and concusssion, and they understood cutting Sellers to get younger, but not Goldsten.
Jason Reid in the Washington Post still believes Beck is the starter.
1. Redskins are leaning on keeping 7 WRs. Stallworth and Banks were battling for the 7th spot.
2. Torrain and Royster were battling for the final RB spot
3. They are leaning towards cutting Sellers and Goldsten.
Comments from Polian and whoever was with him: Banks beat STallworth with his TD return, Royster did not help himself with a fumble and concusssion, and they understood cutting Sellers to get younger, but not Goldsten.
Jason Reid in the Washington Post still believes Beck is the starter.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Kedric Golston??? I would be extremely surprised if they cut Golston, especially after the Jenkins injury. IMO, if that happened it would speak volumes about what they think they have in Darion Scott and Doug Worthington as opposed to what they think about Golston, necessarily.
dgreen
Footballguy
Interesting. I could see the numbers breaking down like this:QB - 2RB/FB - 5WR - 7TE - 3OL - 9DL - 7LB - 8DB - 9K - 1P - 1LS - 1
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Thoughts to add to the soup:
1. Previously I was convinced that Beck would be named starter. After last night's game, I'm uncertain. I have 2 contrary thoughts:
a. Pro-Beck -- previously they were about equal, but Beck seemingly had the advantage re: turnovers and mobility; also while he played the first half last night, the starting OL was with him the whole time. He was NOT playing with a backup OL...that is significant.
b. Anti-Beck -- he looked very shaky last night and over the last two games, he's lost that turnover advantage to me; still has more mobility but turnover advantage is gone.
Was last night's start either symptom of him being one step behind Grossman with the coaching staff giving him one more opportunity to proove himself? Or, was it symptomatic of him being the starter and needing more reps? Or was it symptom of him being backup period, with OL in there just to protect their investment in the important # 2 QB position?
2. WR -- based on what Banks did last night, you have to keep him. You just have to. Those types of returns can make a difference in several more wins for the team, literally. Austin looks equally good and Paul is good too. Toughest position to cut so maybe you DO keep 7: Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Hankerson, Austin, Banks, Paul. Stallworth has performed but they have to cut him loose. They didn't try to "hide" Paul from other teams last night so I think he may be in.
3. 4th RB -- Torrain over Royster
4. Golston may be saved due to Jenkins' injury...I think he looked like a worthy member of the team.
I wish Shanahan would just name a starting QB already. He may be hiding the info from the Giants but he's also hiding it from his own team evidently, and the team needs to know so they can mentally prepare to go into battle vs. the Giants.
1. Previously I was convinced that Beck would be named starter. After last night's game, I'm uncertain. I have 2 contrary thoughts:
a. Pro-Beck -- previously they were about equal, but Beck seemingly had the advantage re: turnovers and mobility; also while he played the first half last night, the starting OL was with him the whole time. He was NOT playing with a backup OL...that is significant.
b. Anti-Beck -- he looked very shaky last night and over the last two games, he's lost that turnover advantage to me; still has more mobility but turnover advantage is gone.
Was last night's start either symptom of him being one step behind Grossman with the coaching staff giving him one more opportunity to proove himself? Or, was it symptomatic of him being the starter and needing more reps? Or was it symptom of him being backup period, with OL in there just to protect their investment in the important # 2 QB position?
2. WR -- based on what Banks did last night, you have to keep him. You just have to. Those types of returns can make a difference in several more wins for the team, literally. Austin looks equally good and Paul is good too. Toughest position to cut so maybe you DO keep 7: Moss, Gaffney, Armstrong, Hankerson, Austin, Banks, Paul. Stallworth has performed but they have to cut him loose. They didn't try to "hide" Paul from other teams last night so I think he may be in.
3. 4th RB -- Torrain over Royster
4. Golston may be saved due to Jenkins' injury...I think he looked like a worthy member of the team.
I wish Shanahan would just name a starting QB already. He may be hiding the info from the Giants but he's also hiding it from his own team evidently, and the team needs to know so they can mentally prepare to go into battle vs. the Giants.
dgreen
Footballguy
Is this comment referring to the return game? I've heard/read several people make comments about how Austin is "almost as good" as Banks in the return game. I just don't see it. Banks is special in the return game.
No, I agree with you. Banks is much better in the return game, because any time he can break one. But Austin seems to have edge as a receiver. So, I think they are both worthy for a slot is what I'm saying. But, I think between Austin vs. Stallworth, you go with Austin, due to his youth.I think we are on the same page there?
