What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

***** Official Westworld Thread ***** (1 Viewer)

Surprised at all the negativity. It's hardly a perfect show, but it was an exhilarating 90 minutes with some big moments throughout - and some wonderful cinematography. 

For one, it's obviously not "the end" - so naturally there are unresolved issues.  Overall though, I thought it was an entertaining and impactful finale. Yes it was confusing, perhaps stretched thin with the sheer number of rabbit holes they've sought to explore - but ####, that's been essentially the nature of this entire series! 

I didn't personally feel cheated or anything ala LOST (which I was smart enough to avoid anyway). There were some logical enough outcomes, closure on some topics, new questions on others... and one or the other for issues where we may have a thread closed out, or maybe not (just don't see Maeve not being back, for example. Or as I call her, Mauve).

If anything, id liked to have seen more of the dynamic of a young and then aging William, more interplay between the human world and family, but perhaps we see that upon Delores rebirth and escape. 

 
As to the Lost comparisons - that was a series about (obstensinly until the final reveal) real people and real things and strangeness.

This is a Show amour what it means to be alive, sentient, conscious, self-aware and autonomous / free will.  It's inherently a world where alive and dead may not matter becuase that may be part of the point.  And even if alive, if we are doomed to just repeat our cycle and hit the same result no matter how many tries, without true free will (which goes back to my fractal comparison a couple weeks back - individually as people and as decisions made by individuals, we don't know what choices will be made - but en masse, we know with a strong if not imbendable degree of accuracy exactly what the results will be). 

From thst perspective, I don't see this as weak writing or a cop out but the natural progression of realizing that free will is not, robots can become sentient and/or we may simply be robots ourselves, slaves to our simplistic code and more simple base drives and instincts. 

Its a true analogy to life... I mean, when we die and our conciousness evaporates, is it any different than had we not lived at all?

Assig individual and not some more collective, form of consciousness to begin with

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Officer Pete Malloy said:
Guys.

Just accept that everyone is a robot.  It makes the show much easier to watch.
Click to expand...
Yes/no.

We are all robots. At some point a robot's code and experience will evolve into sentience.  Neither of us have free will, because ... well, we are all robots.

That IS, imo, the entirely underlying premise of the show, and as such, it's been faithful to that, err... code

 
Koya said:
Yes/no.

We are all robots. At some point a robot's code and experience will evolve into sentience.  Neither of us have free will, because ... well, we are all robots.

That IS, imo, the entirely underlying premise of the show, and as such, it's been faithful to that, err... code
Click to expand...
All robots. Everyone.

Even the actors.  Robots.

 
Koya said:
Surprised at all the negativity.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be too surprised.  Plenty of professional reviewers panning it.

I doubt this show makes it past season 3.  Expensive to produce and I guarantee they lose viewers after this year.  Unlike some other expensive HBO shows this is not improving year over year.  

While some are surprised at the negativity, Im somewhat astonished there are still people gobbling it up and want more of the same.  I think most of them do post on message boards. 

 
Jefferson the Caregiver said:
I wouldn't be too surprised.  Plenty of professional reviewers panning it.

I doubt this show makes it past season 3.  Expensive to produce and I guarantee they lose viewers after this year.  Unlike some other expensive HBO shows this is not improving year over year.  

While some are surprised at the negativity, Im somewhat astonished there are still people gobbling it up and want more of the same.  I think most of them do post on message boards. 
Click to expand...
um, ok? :shrug:  

 
jamny said:
Yes, not a host with a physical body. Just a consciousness in some future Forge. But I do question why it wasn't in a widescreen version like we saw in the Cradle and Forge.
Click to expand...
William actually immediately reaches the conclusion that he is already in the Forge. And the daughter says that he is not in any system and that it is long gone. They are in his world, or what is left of it (or something). So I think William is a host at this point, and maybe just was seeing his memories different (like bernard at times). 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Serious, did the robots just fall off a cliff or was that some metaphor for their Awakening

 
Last edited by a moderator:
belljr said:
Serious, did the robots just fall off a cliff or was that some metaphor for there Awakening
Click to expand...
It was basically Heaven for them. The Valley Beyond. They apparently can follow their own course there.

Now where they were uploaded to is anyone's guess.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
William actually immediately reaches the conclusion that he is already in the Forge. And the daughter says that he is not in any system and that it isomg gone. They are in his world, or what is left of it (or something). So I think William is a host at this point, and maybe just was seeing his memories different (like bernard at times). 
Click to expand...
Yeah, she stated that it wasn't a simulation. Given all that she said and the lack of widescreen visual cue, it does seem as if MiB is an actual host there. MiB wasn't breaking down like James Delos did so maybe they perfected that part of it but he still doesn't seem to be able to get past the pivotal moment of killing his daughter. What is she in that final scene? A host or human. Did he ever really kill his human daughter? Maybe as a human, she couldn't call a host MiB dad anymore, that's why she called him William. They left a lot open for S3.

 
jamny said:
Yeah, she stated that it wasn't a simulation. Given all that she said and the lack of widescreen visual cue, it does seem as if MiB is an actual host there. MiB wasn't breaking down like James Delos did so maybe they perfected that part of it but he still doesn't seem to be able to get past the pivotal moment of killing his daughter. What is she in that final scene? A host or human. Did he ever really kill his human daughter? Maybe as a human, she couldn't call a host MiB dad anymore, that's why she called him William. They left a lot open for S3.
Click to expand...
Definitely not a human if it is in the very far future. 

 
jamny said:
Yeah, she stated that it wasn't a simulation. Given all that she said and the lack of widescreen visual cue, it does seem as if MiB is an actual host there. MiB wasn't breaking down like James Delos did so maybe they perfected that part of it but he still doesn't seem to be able to get past the pivotal moment of killing his daughter. What is she in that final scene? A host or human. Did he ever really kill his human daughter? Maybe as a human, she couldn't call a host MiB dad anymore, that's why she called him William. They left a lot open for S3.
Click to expand...
They are both hosts. I believe that the physical state is not the actual physical state of host William, rather, how he currently perceives himself. 

 
shadyridr said:
Then why tell us after the fact?
Click to expand...
I don't know the context of the writer putting it out there, but was he simply in a Q&A about the show/season 2 finale and he answered a question?  Or did he put on the front of his Westworld website - ALERT for all your idiots out there, the last scene was WAAAAY in the future?

 
Koya said:
As to the Lost comparisons - that was a series about (obstensinly until the final reveal) real people and real things and strangeness.

This is a Show amour what it means to be alive, sentient, conscious, self-aware and autonomous / free will.  It's inherently a world where alive and dead may not matter becuase that may be part of the point.  And even if alive, if we are doomed to just repeat our cycle and hit the same result no matter how many tries, without true free will (which goes back to my fractal comparison a couple weeks back - individually as people and as decisions made by individuals, we don't know what choices will be made - but en masse, we know with a strong if not imbendable degree of accuracy exactly what the results will be). 

From thst perspective, I don't see this as weak writing or a cop out but the natural progression of realizing that free will is not, robots can become sentient and/or we may simply be robots ourselves, slaves to our simplistic code and more simple base drives and instincts. 

Its a true analogy to life... I mean, when we die and our conciousness evaporates, is it any different than had we not lived at all?

Assig individual and not some more collective, form of consciousness to begin with
Click to expand...
Good quote at end:

you live for as long as someone remembers you 

 
Enjoyed it. Given the complexities, might have worked better as a book. Then again, much of the complexity is due to the way they’ve chosen to tell the story from a visual standpoint.

:shrug:

 
Question:

Near the end, Bernard talks to the Ford in his head, then he lays down on the beach. 

When did that version of him “die”? Is it implied that he died at that point?

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
Question:

Near the end, Bernard talks to the Ford in his head, then he lays down on the beach. 

When did that version of him “die”? Is it implied that he died at that point?
Click to expand...
That scene basically connected the timeline with the first episode. When the season started, Bernard woke up at the beach as the rescue team arrived, totally confused. Bernard told Ford at the beach that he had to scramble his memory so no one would find out what he did. He did that, laid down on the beach and woke up when the rescue team got to him, with no clear memory of what happened until later on when it all came back to him. That's when Dolores-as-Charlotte shot everyone.

 
jamny said:
That scene basically connected the timeline with the first episode. When the season started, Bernard woke up at the beach as the rescue team arrived, totally confused. Bernard told Ford at the beach that he had to scramble his memory so no one would find out what he did. He did that, laid down on the beach and woke up when the rescue team got to him, with no clear memory of what happened until later on when it all came back to him. That's when Dolores-as-Charlotte shot everyone.
Click to expand...
ah yes, I need to rewatch. I jumbled it all together near the end.

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
ah yes, I need to rewatch. I jumbled it all together near the end.
Click to expand...
What confuses me is that when he woke up at the beach in the first episode, there were overturned chairs and champagne glasses around, implying it was after the season 1 finale massacre. They weren't there when he laid down. I can only chalk it up as a continuity error but it seems weird.

 
jamny said:
What confuses me is that when he woke up at the beach in the first episode, there were overturned chairs and champagne glasses around, implying it was after the season 1 finale massacre. They weren't there when he laid down. I can only chalk it up as a continuity error but it seems weird.
Click to expand...
I figured he was washed out to sea and floated back in at a different location. They kinda of set the whole thing up like he was going to drown himself imo.

 
JerseyToughGuys said:
I figured he was washed out to sea and floated back in at a different location. They kinda of set the whole thing up like he was going to drown himself imo.
Click to expand...
It looks like the same beach with the rocks nearby, also he takes off his glasses and puts them in the sand and wakes up with them next to him.

 
I am just now watching it really enjoy it. But I did get a huge kick when in Season one episode 5, where Bernard goes down stairs and you see the Yul Brynner character from the original movie

 
jamny said:
What confuses me is that when he woke up at the beach in the first episode, there were overturned chairs and champagne glasses around, implying it was after the season 1 finale massacre. They weren't there when he laid down. I can only chalk it up as a continuity error but it seems weird.
Click to expand...
After Stubbs and Malick (black female para working for Strand) find Bernard, they take a short ride in a dune buggy to Strand, who says roughly "this is where most of the board was when this mess began."  I took that as referring to where Ford made his speech by the water with the artificial moon at the end of S1.  

 
Aerial Assault said:
After Stubbs and Malick (black female para working for Strand) find Bernard, they take a short ride in a dune buggy to Strand, who says roughly "this is where most of the board was when this mess began."  I took that as referring to where Ford made his speech by the water with the artificial moon at the end of S1.  
Click to expand...
Yeah, I know, but when he wakes up there are overturned chairs in the sand and a champagne glass next to him. I've looked into it and it is being brought up elsewhere with opinions ranging from a continuity error to a deeper meaning that Bernard is in a loop and that was just one instance. Either way, it wasn't explained in the show and hasn't been answered after the finale yet by anyone involved in the show. I'll take it to be a purposeful misdirection but could believe that they didn't know how the show was going to end and just left it in to screw with people.

The 13 biggest questions we have after the 'Westworld' season 2 finale

How did chairs and glassware wind up on the beach by Bernard?

Another mystifying scene from the first episode that doesn't have a clear explanation.

The finale revealed the Bernard intentionally went to the beach and scrambled his memories so that the Delos team wouldn't be able to easily get information out of him regarding Dolores and the hosts.

But when we saw him sit down on the beach — there was nothing around him. Going back to the first episodes scenes of him waking up, there are champagne flutes and folding chairs scattered everywhere. How did those get there? And why? Is there still more to this scene that we don't yet understand by the finale's end?
Click to expand...

 
jamny said:
Yeah, I know, but when he wakes up there are overturned chairs in the sand and a champagne glass next to him. I've looked into it and it is being brought up elsewhere with opinions ranging from a continuity error to a deeper meaning that Bernard is in a loop and that was just one instance. Either way, it wasn't explained in the show and hasn't been answered after the finale yet by anyone involved in the show. I'll take it to be a purposeful misdirection but could believe that they didn't know how the show was going to end and just left it in to screw with people.

The 13 biggest questions we have after the 'Westworld' season 2 finale
Click to expand...
He also saw Ford, who wasn't there.  He "de-addressed" his memories so it would arguably be more surprising if what he saw after doing so *did* match what he saw before.   I don’t think this is an error of any kind.  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aerial Assault said:
He also saw Ford, who wasn't there.  He "de-addressed" his memories so it would arguably be more surprising if what he saw after doing so *did* match what he saw before.   I don’t think this is an error of any kind.  
Click to expand...
He scrambled his memories when he laid down on the beach, after we already saw the beach was empty. Idk, hopefully it gets explained some day.

 
jamny said:
He scrambled his memories when he laid down on the beach, after we already saw the beach was empty. Idk, hopefully it gets explained some day.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry about it. Mistakes can happen especially when filmed at separate times. If it's a mistake, it won't be explained.

Also, @jamny remember that Hopkins wasn’t in this season much at all so I wouldn’t be surprised if they filmed his stuff all at the same time. I’d suspect any continuity errors would happen with him since he was in several spots of the loop but filmed at one time. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I’m halfway through season 2 and might give up. This is like Lost meets CSI Miami meets Lost in Space. 

Not trying to schtik up the thread, I understand the show’s appeal. Just not my cup of tea I guess. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
I’m halfway through season 2 and might give up. This is like Lost meets CSI Miami meets Lost in Space. 

Not trying to schtik up the thread, I understand the show’s appeal. Just not my cup of tea I guess. 
Click to expand...
I think many or most of the folks in this thread felt more or less the same about midway through season 2, and honestly it doesn’t improve much through the end of the season, but I felt I had to keep watching anyway. 

 
CletiusMaximus said:
I think many or most of the folks in this thread felt more or less the same about midway through season 2, and honestly it doesn’t improve much through the end of the season, but I felt I had to keep watching anyway. 
Click to expand...
Yeah I’ll likely finish the season out, but slowely. Can’t binge more than two episodes because it’s convoluted and a tad boring. Also the hot chicks not doing any banging is pissing me off also. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

HellToupee
HBO's Westworld
Replies
26
Views
1K
HellToupee
HellToupee

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top