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***Official WIS Sim XIII Draft Thread - The HoVG (1 Viewer)

No more picks except make-ups. Everybody has until Tuesday noon EST to make up their skips (see below).

Three FFA/clusterf*k rounds will be held on Tuesday:

Round 23: noon EST/9AM PST

Round 24: 3PM EST/noon PST

Round 25: 6PM EST/3PM PST

At the top of the hour, make one pick--first come, first served

Other leeg business:

1. League has been set up. See OP for league ID.

2. Let me know if you want to be in a Sim Live division: so far it's Koya, Dr. Detroit, Mr. Phoenix and Spartans Rule

3. Speak up now if you have any objections to Bogart's Hall of Lame team (worst elected Hall of Famers)

 
Eephus said:
No more picks except make-ups. Everybody has until Tuesday noon EST to make up their skips (see below).

Three FFA/clusterf*k rounds will be held on Tuesday:

Round 23: noon EST/9AM PST

Round 24: 3PM EST/noon PST

Round 25: 6PM EST/3PM PST
Click to expand...
 
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Eephus said:
Doug B said:
Bogart said:
Will wait on the decision for "Hall of Lame" or not before making any more picks.
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Looks like you're good for the HOL idea ... no objections raised.
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RIP Dirty Pskov
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Halos was in the forums late last night ... no word :lmao: Pskov was in Sunday morning, but he's barely been on FBG's forums over the last week or so. I figure at some point he'll return and offer a "sorry, guys".

 
oso diablo said:
Doug B said:
Bogart said:
Will wait on the decision for "Hall of Lame" or not before making any more picks.
Click to expand...
Looks like you're good for the HOL idea ... no objections raised.
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this is not an objection, but how good do you think the pitching will be for this team? there really aren't all that many "lame" pitchers in the HOF.
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Depends on how Bogart approaches his team selection. If he picks a bunch of HOF pitchers from the 1930s/40s/50s, those guys will get shelled in this thing, even using top seasons. For example, Lefty Grove and Warren Spahn, though real-life all-timers, are notoriously bad in WIS. Maybe the October WIS tweaks have changed things ... not sure.
 
oso diablo said:
Bogart said:
Potential "Hall Of Shame" lineup:

C - Rick Farrell

1B - George Kelly

2B - Bill Mazerroski

SS - Walter James Vincent "Rabbit" Maranville

3B - Travis Jackson

OF - George Davis

OF - Lou Brock

OF - Tommy McCarthy

Bench: Dave Winfield, Phil Rizzuto, Tony Lazzeri, Joe Tinker

Pitchers: Jim Bunning, Red Faber, Phil Neikro, Eppa Rixey, Red Ruffing, Herb Pennock
Click to expand...
just for the sake of HOF discussion... haven't looked at their respective WIS stats, but these are my picks:OF: Lloyd Waner - only got in due to halo effect of his deserving older brother and their cool nicknames

OF: agree on McCarthy

OF: wanted to argue for Lou Brock, but i'll pick Freddie Lindstrom instead. I know he played more at 3B, and we can put him there if you want.

SS: Maranville is an easy pick

2B: Maz or Johnny Evers

3B: if not Lindstrom, then George Kell

1B: agree on Kelly, also Frank Chance

C: Ferrell and Schalk

P: Rube Marquard, Catfish, Pennock, Jesse Haines, Red Ruffing, Eppa Rixey, Jack Chesbro

Others: Tinker, Rizzuto, Max Carey, Harry Hooper, Earle Combs, Ross Youngs, Chick Hafey, Tony Perez
Click to expand...
 
Eephus said:
oso diablo said:
Bogart said:
Potential "Hall Of Shame" lineup:

C - Rick Farrell

1B - George Kelly

2B - Bill Mazerroski

SS - Walter James Vincent "Rabbit" Maranville

3B - Travis Jackson

OF - George Davis

OF - Lou Brock

OF - Tommy McCarthy

Bench: Dave Winfield, Phil Rizzuto, Tony Lazzeri, Joe Tinker

Pitchers: Jim Bunning, Red Faber, Phil Neikro, Eppa Rixey, Red Ruffing, Herb Pennock
Click to expand...
just for the sake of HOF discussion... haven't looked at their respective WIS stats, but these are my picks:OF: Lloyd Waner - only got in due to halo effect of his deserving older brother and their cool nicknames

OF: agree on McCarthy

OF: wanted to argue for Lou Brock, but i'll pick Freddie Lindstrom instead. I know he played more at 3B, and we can put him there if you want.

SS: Maranville is an easy pick

2B: Maz or Johnny Evers

3B: if not Lindstrom, then George Kell

1B: agree on Kelly, also Frank Chance

C: Ferrell and Schalk

P: Rube Marquard, Catfish, Pennock, Jesse Haines, Red Ruffing, Eppa Rixey, Jack Chesbro

Others: Tinker, Rizzuto, Max Carey, Harry Hooper, Earle Combs, Ross Youngs, Chick Hafey, Tony Perez
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Those batting squads have almost no slugging ... maybe they shouldn't be worried about having "too good" of a pitching staff.
 
23 . 01 : BougD------------ : Wally Judnich OF

23 . 02 : Kraft------------ : Jack Aker RP

23 . 03 : DrDetroit-------- :

23 . 04 : Arsenal of Doom-- : Lance Johnson OF

23 . 05 : Koya------------- :

23 . 06 : Jfranco---------- : Ken Griffey Sr. OF

23 . 07 : Grecospeare------ :

23 . 08 : MrPhoenix-------- : **** Donovan RP

23 . 09 : Frosty Dungeon--- : Roger Craig RP

23 . 10 : SNC-------------- : Willie Davis OF

23 . 11 : HoosFirst-------- :

23 . 12 : Sammy------------ : Scott Brosius 3B

23 . 13 : SCBF------------- :

23 . 14 : osodiablo-------- : **** McAuliffe SS

23 . 15 : Larry Boy-------- :

23 . 16 : Shakespeare II--- :

23 . 17 : Eephus----------- : Al Oliver OF

23 . 18 : Dirty Pskov------ :

23 . 19 : RnR-------------- : Mo Vaughn 1B

23 . 20 : Pumpnick--------- :

23 . 21 : Doug B----------- : Greg McMichael RP

23 . 22 : TremendousUpside- :

23 . 23 : Bogart----------- :

23 . 24 : Sparty----------- :

 
Doug B said:
Eephus said:
oso diablo said:
Bogart said:
Potential "Hall Of Shame" lineup:

C - Rick Farrell

1B - George Kelly

2B - Bill Mazerroski

SS - Walter James Vincent "Rabbit" Maranville

3B - Travis Jackson

OF - George Davis

OF - Lou Brock

OF - Tommy McCarthy

Bench: Dave Winfield, Phil Rizzuto, Tony Lazzeri, Joe Tinker

Pitchers: Jim Bunning, Red Faber, Phil Neikro, Eppa Rixey, Red Ruffing, Herb Pennock
Click to expand...
just for the sake of HOF discussion... haven't looked at their respective WIS stats, but these are my picks:OF: Lloyd Waner - only got in due to halo effect of his deserving older brother and their cool nicknames

OF: agree on McCarthy

OF: wanted to argue for Lou Brock, but i'll pick Freddie Lindstrom instead. I know he played more at 3B, and we can put him there if you want.

SS: Maranville is an easy pick

2B: Maz or Johnny Evers

3B: if not Lindstrom, then George Kell

1B: agree on Kelly, also Frank Chance

C: Ferrell and Schalk

P: Rube Marquard, Catfish, Pennock, Jesse Haines, Red Ruffing, Eppa Rixey, Jack Chesbro

Others: Tinker, Rizzuto, Max Carey, Harry Hooper, Earle Combs, Ross Youngs, Chick Hafey, Tony Perez
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Those batting squads have almost no slugging ... maybe they shouldn't be worried about having "too good" of a pitching staff.
Click to expand...
The HoL team will have a solid bullpen. But even cherry picking the best years of Wilhelm, Fingers, Sutter, Eck and Gossage won't be that much better than the usual WIS cookie RPs.
 
just for kicks and grins (and because i'm a baseball dork), i looked up the list of most comparable players at B-R for each of the HOF guys below. Noting a few to give a sense of what level of players these guys were. # in ( ) shows how many of his top 10 comps are in the HOF.

Potential "Hall Of Shame" lineup:

C: Rick Farrell - Tony Pena / Brad Ausmus (2)

C: Ray Schalk - Jim Sundberg (3)

1B: George Kelly - Bob Watson (0)

1B: Frank Chance - Jack Smith (1)

1B: Tony Perez - Harold Baines (3)

2B: Bill Mazerroski - Frank White (0)

2B: Johnny Evers - Luis Castillo (2)

2B: Tony Lazzeri - Vern Stephens (2)

SS: Walter James Vincent "Rabbit" Maranville - Ozzie and Aparicio (5 - he has a better resume than i remembered)

SS: Joe Tinker - Ozzie Guillen (1 - Rizzuto)

SS: Phil Rizzuto - Jose Offerman (0)

SS/3B - Travis Jackson - Carlos Baerga (1)

3B: George Kell - Bill Madlock (2)

3B/OF: Freddie Lindstrom - Baby Doll Jacobson (2)

Outfielders

OF: George Davis - Bill Dahlen (7 - not lame)

OF: Lou Brock - Tim Raines (4)

OF: Tommy McCarthy - Lance Johnson (1)

OF: Dave Winfield - Eddie Murray / Al Kaline (6 - i wouldn't put him in this HOL group at all)

OF: Lloyd Waner - Willie Wilson (1)

OF: Max Carey - Raines again, Brett Butler (4)

OF: Harry Hooper - Brett Butler (3)

OF: Earle Combs - Mike Tiernan (1)

OF: Ross Youngs - Chick Stahl (1)

OF: Chick Hafey - Ken Williams / Tony Oliva (1)

Pitchers:

Jim Bunning - Mickey Lolich (2)

Red Faber - Dennis Martinez (5)

Phil Neikro - Gaylord Perry (7 - another clear HOFer to me)

Eppa Rixey - Jim Kaat (5)

Red Ruffing - Gus Weyhing (4)

Herb Pennock - David Wells (4)

Rube Marquard - Dolph Luque, Jerry Reuss (0)

Catfish - Tiant / Hershiser (1)

Jesse Haines - Freddie Fitzsimmons (0)

Jack Chesbro - Babe Adams / Carl Mays (2)

 
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Eephus said:
The HoL team will have a solid bullpen. But even cherry picking the best years of Wilhelm, Fingers, Sutter, Eck and Gossage won't be that much better than the usual WIS cookie RPs.
Click to expand...
i don't see why you'd have to pick literal relievers, as opposed to the 10-11 lamest pitchers.
 
Eephus said:
Doug B said:
oso diablo said:
i don't see why you'd have to pick literal relievers, as opposed to the 10-11 lamest pitchers.
Click to expand...
... might as well clear this up right now:Is the HOL team supposed to suck? Is it supposed to be a 120-loss squad?
Click to expand...
Even schtick teams should be semi-competitive. I don't recall Shake Zula's all-Marlins teams being walkovers.
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Considering that Bogart is doing the league a favor by picking up for an AWOL owner ... I think his squad should be allowed to be straight-up competitive. One big reason is that you don't want one division to have an advantage in the WC race.
 
Doug B said:
Considering that Bogart is doing the league a favor by picking up for an AWOL owner ... I think his squad should be allowed to be straight-up competitive. One big reason is that you don't want one division to have an advantage in the WC race.
Click to expand...
don't disagree. but i doubt that any of us is equipped to evaluate this team's strength in advance. I'm less convinced than some of you that a HoL team will be horrible. Sure, it's possible, but i also think it's possible that it could contend for the playoffs. and that's without making allowances for non-lame HOFers.edit to elaborate that i'm not suggesting a team of all catchers and shortstops playing out of position, so my earlier comment about relievers is more of a function of my long-held and firm belief that almost every solid starting pitcher could be transformed into an above average reliever.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Doug B said:
Eephus said:
Doug B said:
oso diablo said:
i don't see why you'd have to pick literal relievers, as opposed to the 10-11 lamest pitchers.
Click to expand...
... might as well clear this up right now:Is the HOL team supposed to suck? Is it supposed to be a 120-loss squad?
Click to expand...
Even schtick teams should be semi-competitive. I don't recall Shake Zula's all-Marlins teams being walkovers.
Click to expand...
Considering that Bogart is doing the league a favor by picking up for an AWOL owner ... I think his squad should be allowed to be straight-up competitive. One big reason is that you don't want one division to have an advantage in the WC race.
Click to expand...
if that's the case, he'll need to bump up the talent at some of those positions. For instance both Tinker and Maranville wouldn't even have been drafted in this while Ozzie would have been. Let him us Ozzie. I think he should also probably have a 1B that's something like .300/.400/.500 and 1-2 OFs with similar stats. Besides that I think he'd be sort of competitve anyway since a lot of our teams are kind of meh anyways.
 
oso diablo said:
Doug B said:
Considering that Bogart is doing the league a favor by picking up for an AWOL owner ... I think his squad should be allowed to be straight-up competitive. One big reason is that you don't want one division to have an advantage in the WC race.
Click to expand...
don't disagree. but i doubt that any of us is equipped to evaluate this team's strength in advance. I'm less convinced than some of you that a HoL team will be horrible. Sure, it's possible, but i also think it's possible that it could contend for the playoffs. and that's without making allowances for non-lame HOFers.
Click to expand...
If we use the list that's been produced, I have a hard time believing a truly HoL would be that competitive. Tinker is so off the charts bad in WIS that its not even funny and Mazeorski isn't much better. Its really tough to be competitive in a WIS league with one much less two OBP killers and that's only the first two positions I looked at. Chance is at best a replacement level 1B and Brock is just horrible. Put it this way, a truly HoL would be a 100 loss team.
 
Reading over the comments during my lunch break, very happy to have Hall of Lame team (my apologies to Halos/Pakov) Thoughts:

1. Need Norwood to get in here and complete his team. He should also probably be allowed to kick any of the Rangers off the team and replace them as he sees fit.

2. The research that I did for the Hall of Lame team list above only took about 30 minutes. I am more than willing to listen to suggestions on who to include and who not to include. Obviously I won't be treading on anyone's player pool at this point. The batting lineup will be much easier than pitching IMO, and if we want better HOFers than that list, just let me know. Could be very shticky. Tinker, Evers and Chance in the lineup at times together, just hoping for the DP. I'm game for anything. I don't think even the worst of the HOF guys would be a pushover. Probably a lot of 2-1 games.

3. Maranville will play and will start. That is all.

 
oso diablo said:
... but i doubt that any of us is equipped to evaluate this team's strength in advance ...
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Mmmm ... we've seen a lot of these guys in past sims. Many of them just have terrible histories of underperfomance in this thing.Now, with the recent October WIS updates, maybe some things have changed. But I'm betting that basic batting performance won't be that different. Most of the tweaks involved fielding.
 
23 . 01 : BougD------------ : Wally Judnich OF

23 . 02 : Kraft------------ : Jack Aker RP

23 . 03 : DrDetroit-------- : Bobby Veach OF

23 . 04 : Arsenal of Doom-- : Lance Johnson OF

23 . 05 : Koya------------- : Vada Pinson OF

23 . 06 : Jfranco---------- : Ken Griffey Sr. OF

23 . 07 : Grecospeare------ : Dave Hollins 3B

23 . 08 : MrPhoenix-------- : **** Donovan RP

23 . 09 : Frosty Dungeon--- : Roger Craig RP

23 . 10 : SNC-------------- : Willie Davis OF

23 . 11 : HoosFirst-------- :

23 . 12 : Sammy------------ : Scott Brosius 3B

23 . 13 : SCBF------------- : **** Bosman RP

23 . 14 : osodiablo-------- : **** McAuliffe SS

23 . 15 : Larry Boy-------- :

23 . 16 : Shakespeare II--- :

23 . 17 : Eephus----------- : Al Oliver OF

23 . 18 : Dirty Pskov------ :

23 . 19 : RnR-------------- : Mo Vaughn 1B

23 . 20 : Pumpnick--------- :

23 . 21 : Doug B----------- : Greg McMichael RP

23 . 22 : TremendousUpside- :

23 . 23 : Bogart----------- :

23 . 24 : Sparty----------- :

 
Outside of Sam Crawford, I think Bobby Veach is the best Tigers player good Tigers fans have never heard of. He had a string of really good seasons from 1915 to 1922 and he was a triples machine making him a good substitution OFer for my team.

 
I am debating going with only 10 pitchers. Have almost 1600 innings and a lot if flexibility... Low inning starters, starters who can relieve etc.

 
Koya said:
I am debating going with only 10 pitchers. Have almost 1600 innings and a lot if flexibility... Low inning starters, starters who can relieve etc.
Click to expand...
I have 10 pitchers and 1921 innings but 333 are from **** Rudolph who is mop-up and really spotty starter. Might add one more, not sure.
 
I'm at 9 pitchers with 1314 innings... going to add a 300-inning mop up/spot guy but not sure if I'll add another after that. Having 3 catchers is a bit of a nuisance.

 
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