***OFFICIAL Yankees offseason thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Workhorse]

Re: Hawkins

Relievers with super low K rates usually get lit up in the American League. Yankee fans are going to hate this guy.

Kudos for LaTroy for getting a team to bite on his after getting downright ridiculously lucky in 07 with the Rockies. Dude put up a .209 BABIP at Coors Field last year to make his overall numbers look respectable.

Yeah, good luck repeating that.

He'll be DFA'd by the All-Star Break.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Ramirez has one pitch, that crazy changeup of his...

The problem is that he ONLY throws that pitch, so hitters are able to time it...

And then it becomes an 80 mph batting practice pitch...

He needs to throw his fastball, even if it is not that great, so that the changeup is a change of speeds...

I don't have much faith that he will ever amount to a consistent reliever...

I actually think Ramirez can be a good change of pace guy in the pen. The key though is that he must throw strikes. His fastball is actually around 90, but his control was really lacking. His change is the type that he can double up and sometimes triple up on it and he has a great drop on it with great arm speed so it is nothing like a batting practice pitch. The issues is though that if he can't get any strikes the change up becomes much less effective. He is still young. BTW, is he the lightest pitcher in the majors? We call him starvin' marvin'

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Ramirez has one pitch, that crazy changeup of his...

The problem is that he ONLY throws that pitch, so hitters are able to time it...

And then it becomes an 80 mph batting practice pitch...

He needs to throw his fastball, even if it is not that great, so that the changeup is a change of speeds...

I don't have much faith that he will ever amount to a consistent reliever...

I actually think Ramirez can be a good change of pace guy in the pen. The key though is that he must throw strikes. His fastball is actually around 90, but his control was really lacking. His change is the type that he can double up and sometimes triple up on it and he has a great drop on it with great arm speed so it is nothing like a batting practice pitch. The issues is though that if he can't get any strikes the change up becomes much less effective. He is still young. BTW, is he the lightest pitcher in the majors? We call him starvin' marvin'

Throwing strikes ais a big problem, but he also just doesn't throw the fastball enough...Triple up? Hell, I;ve seen him quintuple up with that change, and the 5th time it usually ends up in orbit...

 

[Liquid Tension]

Ramirez has one pitch, that crazy changeup of his...

The problem is that he ONLY throws that pitch, so hitters are able to time it...

And then it becomes an 80 mph batting practice pitch...

He needs to throw his fastball, even if it is not that great, so that the changeup is a change of speeds...

I don't have much faith that he will ever amount to a consistent reliever...

I actually think Ramirez can be a good change of pace guy in the pen. The key though is that he must throw strikes. His fastball is actually around 90, but his control was really lacking. His change is the type that he can double up and sometimes triple up on it and he has a great drop on it with great arm speed so it is nothing like a batting practice pitch. The issues is though that if he can't get any strikes the change up becomes much less effective. He is still young. BTW, is he the lightest pitcher in the majors? We call him starvin' marvin'

I would also like to go on record about Farnsworth. I think he is the softest 97 MPH guy in the game. He just seems like a big soft pu%$y. That being said, I think he gets a raw deal. The guy has been effective every place he has gone, but not as much with the Yanks. I think this is directly because of the poor job Torre did with the bullpen. Now I don't want to get into the entire Torre debate as overall he was pretty good as a Yankee manager, but it was not because he was a good tactician and it definitely was not because he knew how to handle a bullpen (he clearly did not), but he was a classy guy who shielded the team from the media extremely well and was well respected by the players.Getting back to Farnsworth, how many times did we hear that Farnsworth can't go more than 1 inning? Joe used to say it all the time and then it was repeated by the announcers. That is such a bunch of junk. Do you know how many times he went more than 1 inning last year? None! That's right Torre was so sure he couldn't go more than 1 inning and that was derived by not even trying him for more than 1 inning even after throwing less than 10 pitches to retire the side in order (which did happen a bunch of times). Well maybe you say he just learned that from 2006? Well you would be partially right... on three occasions Farnsworth did pitch more than an inning and his total line for those 3 outings was 4 2/3 innings, 4 hits, 0 runs, 0 walks and 8 k's. Now I see why Joe didn't think he could pitch more than 1 inning??? Clueless Joe

Torre consistently took guys out of games when they were pitching well and kept going to another guy until the other guy didn't do the job. I wrote on this over and over again. Farnsworth pitches a 1,2,3 inning on 9 pitches and he comes out of the game for Bruney who does the same and then in comes Starvin Marvin who gets shelled and Torre leaves him out there. Switch the players around but it happened all the time. What about riding the hot hand for more than an inning and sparing the bullpen? That concept was lost on Joe. It is not a coincidence that the Yankees guys like Proctor and others were burned out all the time and don't blame the starting pitching as there are some BAD teams that have it much worse than the yanks. Torre simply did not know how to handle a bullpen and not only that would get guys up when he didn't have to (which is more taxing than the average fan thinks - having a full day of not throwing at all is important sometimes.)

Back to Farnsworth 2: He clearly has good stuff. He has a plus curve, plus slider and plus fastball. The fastball would be A+, but it is straight which only makes it plus. I thought he was doing better when they started using the breaking pitches a lot more with him and working backwards. I think if he were allowed to pitch when he was doing well and taking him out as soon as you can see he doesn't have it you would see solid numbers that will help the Yanks. BTW, I went back to 2004 and he had twelve times where he went more than 1 inning and only once did he allow an earned run. I don't think Farnsworth is a stud setup guy at all and he has not been reliable with the Yanks, but I believe showing some confidence in him and allowing him to pitch more when he is "on" and his own confidence would grow and he would be helpful in the pen.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

 

[Liquid Tension]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

 

[Liquid Tension]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

Farns did not set his own rules. In fact I saw him interviewed and he said he had great stuff and after throwing 8 pitches to retire the side he wanted to go back in there, but instead Torre went to Bruney who didn't have it.What makes me think Torre didn't do that with all the guys. When Bruney was on Torre didn't let him continue either. Torre's MO was to let a guy pitch an inning and have him get up almost every day regardless of whether he pitched the inning. It is much easier to pitch 2 innings one day and get a full day rest and then pitch 2 innings and get a full days rest than pitch 4 straight days for 1 inning. Torre never got that and this is why the bullpen was always warn out. Bruney's control stinks but he has very good stuff. It isn't a coincidence that Bruney had an ERA of 2.70, 1.64, and 1.04 in April, May and June, but got lit up the rest of the year.

The Yankees have some good arms in the bullpen that people don't talk about and I am hopeful Girardi can get a lot more out of them than Torre did. Ohlendorf, Bruney, Starvin Marvin and even Britton all have some ability and are young. Of course they are all righties.

 

[Reaper]

Anyone have a feeling Pettite won't come back now.....

I wouldn't if I were him....

That could be the biggest fallout from all of this.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Anyone have a feeling Pettite won't come back now.....I wouldn't if I were him....That could be the biggest fallout from all of this.

Definately, one of the inital thoughts I had. Maybe why the Johan whispers are growing again. But it would display either massive arrogance or ignorance on Pettitte's behalf to commit and then bail. Had he retired, not a single person would have said a word.

 

[Balco]

Hank Steinbrenner is awesome. I think I am going to enjoy his tenure.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

Farns did not set his own rules. In fact I saw him interviewed and he said he had great stuff and after throwing 8 pitches to retire the side he wanted to go back in there, but instead Torre went to Bruney who didn't have it.What makes me think Torre didn't do that with all the guys. When Bruney was on Torre didn't let him continue either. Torre's MO was to let a guy pitch an inning and have him get up almost every day regardless of whether he pitched the inning. It is much easier to pitch 2 innings one day and get a full day rest and then pitch 2 innings and get a full days rest than pitch 4 straight days for 1 inning. Torre never got that and this is why the bullpen was always warn out. Bruney's control stinks but he has very good stuff. It isn't a coincidence that Bruney had an ERA of 2.70, 1.64, and 1.04 in April, May and June, but got lit up the rest of the year.

The Yankees have some good arms in the bullpen that people don't talk about and I am hopeful Girardi can get a lot more out of them than Torre did. Ohlendorf, Bruney, Starvin Marvin and even Britton all have some ability and are young. Of course they are all righties.

I've looked for quotes on his usage, and I've seen nothing to support what you suggest. If you can anything backing that up, I'd love to see it, but based on Torre's many WFAN appearances and just his track record, I think Farns is quite fragile, especially in his own mind:http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/2007/09/kyle...-available.html

the rules about his usage come from Farnsworth himself--

I know this isn't exactly sourced material, but it is somewhat supportive of the notion most Yankee fans espouse, he dictated his situation. If Torre could have ridden him, he would have. There's never been another high profile FA that he hasn't, from Stanton to Gordon to Karsay to Quantril, et al.

 

[Liquid Tension]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

Farns did not set his own rules. In fact I saw him interviewed and he said he had great stuff and after throwing 8 pitches to retire the side he wanted to go back in there, but instead Torre went to Bruney who didn't have it.What makes me think Torre didn't do that with all the guys. When Bruney was on Torre didn't let him continue either. Torre's MO was to let a guy pitch an inning and have him get up almost every day regardless of whether he pitched the inning. It is much easier to pitch 2 innings one day and get a full day rest and then pitch 2 innings and get a full days rest than pitch 4 straight days for 1 inning. Torre never got that and this is why the bullpen was always warn out. Bruney's control stinks but he has very good stuff. It isn't a coincidence that Bruney had an ERA of 2.70, 1.64, and 1.04 in April, May and June, but got lit up the rest of the year.

The Yankees have some good arms in the bullpen that people don't talk about and I am hopeful Girardi can get a lot more out of them than Torre did. Ohlendorf, Bruney, Starvin Marvin and even Britton all have some ability and are young. Of course they are all righties.

I've looked for quotes on his usage, and I've seen nothing to support what you suggest. If you can anything backing that up, I'd love to see it, but based on Torre's many WFAN appearances and just his track record, I think Farns is quite fragile, especially in his own mind:http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/2007/09/kyle...-available.html

the rules about his usage come from Farnsworth himself--

I know this isn't exactly sourced material, but it is somewhat supportive of the notion most Yankee fans espouse, he dictated his situation. If Torre could have ridden him, he would have. There's never been another high profile FA that he hasn't, from Stanton to Gordon to Karsay to Quantril, et al.

C'mon, I am not going back to look at all quotes about Farnsworth but I have seen him say (more than once) that he could have pitched a 2nd inning. Look at the numbers I put forth, I mean anyone who has ever played baseball knows that if you throw 8 pitches you can come out for a 2nd inning. Warming up takes more out of you than 8 pitches.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Hank Steinbrenner is awesome. I think I am going to enjoy his tenure.

Hal doesn't know to shut the heck up. if the Yanks were interested why would you tell anyone? Is he that stupid? If you really wanted Santana would you want the Red Sox to know? Just shut the heck up and work on a deal if that is what you want. Somebody needs to put a muzzle on him.Hal, please shut up

 

[Balco]

Hank Steinbrenner is awesome. I think I am going to enjoy his tenure.

Hal doesn't know to shut the heck up. if the Yanks were interested why would you tell anyone? Is he that stupid? If you really wanted Santana would you want the Red Sox to know? Just shut the heck up and work on a deal if that is what you want. Somebody needs to put a muzzle on him.Hal, please shut up

I just picture Cashman listening to the latest Steinbrenner speech with his head buried in his hands, shaking his head.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

Farns did not set his own rules. In fact I saw him interviewed and he said he had great stuff and after throwing 8 pitches to retire the side he wanted to go back in there, but instead Torre went to Bruney who didn't have it.What makes me think Torre didn't do that with all the guys. When Bruney was on Torre didn't let him continue either. Torre's MO was to let a guy pitch an inning and have him get up almost every day regardless of whether he pitched the inning. It is much easier to pitch 2 innings one day and get a full day rest and then pitch 2 innings and get a full days rest than pitch 4 straight days for 1 inning. Torre never got that and this is why the bullpen was always warn out. Bruney's control stinks but he has very good stuff. It isn't a coincidence that Bruney had an ERA of 2.70, 1.64, and 1.04 in April, May and June, but got lit up the rest of the year.

The Yankees have some good arms in the bullpen that people don't talk about and I am hopeful Girardi can get a lot more out of them than Torre did. Ohlendorf, Bruney, Starvin Marvin and even Britton all have some ability and are young. Of course they are all righties.

I've looked for quotes on his usage, and I've seen nothing to support what you suggest. If you can anything backing that up, I'd love to see it, but based on Torre's many WFAN appearances and just his track record, I think Farns is quite fragile, especially in his own mind:http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/2007/09/kyle...-available.html

the rules about his usage come from Farnsworth himself--

I know this isn't exactly sourced material, but it is somewhat supportive of the notion most Yankee fans espouse, he dictated his situation. If Torre could have ridden him, he would have. There's never been another high profile FA that he hasn't, from Stanton to Gordon to Karsay to Quantril, et al.

C'mon, I am not going back to look at all quotes about Farnsworth but I have seen him say (more than once) that he could have pitched a 2nd inning. Look at the numbers I put forth, I mean anyone who has ever played baseball knows that if you throw 8 pitches you can come out for a 2nd inning. Warming up takes more out of you than 8 pitches.

All I'm saying is, everything you are saying is flying in the face of the admittedly at times faulty, conventional wisdom. Torre's use of the bullpen, the words of reporters who are around the team day in and day out and the the logic of the numbers you DO point out. I'm not disagreeing with you logically here, he SHOULD be able to do all you suggest. I've often been frustrated when he's burned through a lineup for a 5-8 pitch inning at times when the pen was fried, the words of the yankee scribes and Torre's past behavior should indicate his usage, regardless of his words. Farns seems like kind of a clown to me anyway, and not exactly the type to man up and make clear his usage, I don't doubt he SAID what you suggest, but I feel like that was more about perception than anything.

 

[shadyridr]

Yikes, Vizcaino signed a 2 yr, 3.5mil deal with Milwaukee. If I knew it would only take 2yrs at 3.5 I wouldve rather they signed Luis than Hawkins.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Yikes, Vizcaino signed a 2 yr, 3.5mil deal with Milwaukee. If I knew it would only take 2yrs at 3.5 I wouldve rather they signed Luis than Hawkins.

Yeah, I agree somewhat, but Viz is a Type A and results in a Sandwich pick, which given the drop off to LaTroy, and the potential in that pick, I don't mind it so much.

 

[Liquid Tension]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

Farns did not set his own rules. In fact I saw him interviewed and he said he had great stuff and after throwing 8 pitches to retire the side he wanted to go back in there, but instead Torre went to Bruney who didn't have it.What makes me think Torre didn't do that with all the guys. When Bruney was on Torre didn't let him continue either. Torre's MO was to let a guy pitch an inning and have him get up almost every day regardless of whether he pitched the inning. It is much easier to pitch 2 innings one day and get a full day rest and then pitch 2 innings and get a full days rest than pitch 4 straight days for 1 inning. Torre never got that and this is why the bullpen was always warn out. Bruney's control stinks but he has very good stuff. It isn't a coincidence that Bruney had an ERA of 2.70, 1.64, and 1.04 in April, May and June, but got lit up the rest of the year.

The Yankees have some good arms in the bullpen that people don't talk about and I am hopeful Girardi can get a lot more out of them than Torre did. Ohlendorf, Bruney, Starvin Marvin and even Britton all have some ability and are young. Of course they are all righties.

I've looked for quotes on his usage, and I've seen nothing to support what you suggest. If you can anything backing that up, I'd love to see it, but based on Torre's many WFAN appearances and just his track record, I think Farns is quite fragile, especially in his own mind:http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/2007/09/kyle...-available.html

the rules about his usage come from Farnsworth himself--

I know this isn't exactly sourced material, but it is somewhat supportive of the notion most Yankee fans espouse, he dictated his situation. If Torre could have ridden him, he would have. There's never been another high profile FA that he hasn't, from Stanton to Gordon to Karsay to Quantril, et al.

C'mon, I am not going back to look at all quotes about Farnsworth but I have seen him say (more than once) that he could have pitched a 2nd inning. Look at the numbers I put forth, I mean anyone who has ever played baseball knows that if you throw 8 pitches you can come out for a 2nd inning. Warming up takes more out of you than 8 pitches.

All I'm saying is, everything you are saying is flying in the face of the admittedly at times faulty, conventional wisdom. Torre's use of the bullpen, the words of reporters who are around the team day in and day out and the the logic of the numbers you DO point out. I'm not disagreeing with you logically here, he SHOULD be able to do all you suggest. I've often been frustrated when he's burned through a lineup for a 5-8 pitch inning at times when the pen was fried, the words of the yankee scribes and Torre's past behavior should indicate his usage, regardless of his words. Farns seems like kind of a clown to me anyway, and not exactly the type to man up and make clear his usage, I don't doubt he SAID what you suggest, but I feel like that was more about perception than anything.

Fair enough, but I don't see how extending a pitcher for another few outs when he is "on" and hasn't pitched much flies in the face of conventional wisdomBTW, just because a writer says something doesn't mean it is right or even that he is remotely an authority. Most of them don't know that much about the game. I mean Mike and the mad Dog know so little about baseball, but they are the most popular show.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Yikes, Vizcaino signed a 2 yr, 3.5mil deal with Milwaukee. If I knew it would only take 2yrs at 3.5 I wouldve rather they signed Luis than Hawkins.

Yeah, I agree somewhat, but Viz is a Type A and results in a Sandwich pick, which given the drop off to LaTroy, and the potential in that pick, I don't mind it so much.

that makes sense to me. The one thing that goes on behind the scenes that we are not aware of is that it is possible that someone noticed a flaw in the mechanics of a pitcher and the feeling is that signing him you can correct that flaw (even a tiny one) and get him back to pitching better. This probably is NOT the case with Hawkins, but you never know. I remember watching Posada and my tivo and noticing how close he was to the plate during one of the few slumps he had last year. as soon as he backed up he began to hit again. George Brett once said that the best thing he could do when he was in a slump was to back off the plate because the tendency is/was to get more on top of the plate to ensure you reach the outside part of the plate. He said he realized this late in his career though. I always thought that made sense because that tendency is real if you ever played a lot of ball.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

Farns did not set his own rules. In fact I saw him interviewed and he said he had great stuff and after throwing 8 pitches to retire the side he wanted to go back in there, but instead Torre went to Bruney who didn't have it.What makes me think Torre didn't do that with all the guys. When Bruney was on Torre didn't let him continue either. Torre's MO was to let a guy pitch an inning and have him get up almost every day regardless of whether he pitched the inning. It is much easier to pitch 2 innings one day and get a full day rest and then pitch 2 innings and get a full days rest than pitch 4 straight days for 1 inning. Torre never got that and this is why the bullpen was always warn out. Bruney's control stinks but he has very good stuff. It isn't a coincidence that Bruney had an ERA of 2.70, 1.64, and 1.04 in April, May and June, but got lit up the rest of the year.

The Yankees have some good arms in the bullpen that people don't talk about and I am hopeful Girardi can get a lot more out of them than Torre did. Ohlendorf, Bruney, Starvin Marvin and even Britton all have some ability and are young. Of course they are all righties.

I've looked for quotes on his usage, and I've seen nothing to support what you suggest. If you can anything backing that up, I'd love to see it, but based on Torre's many WFAN appearances and just his track record, I think Farns is quite fragile, especially in his own mind:http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/2007/09/kyle...-available.html

the rules about his usage come from Farnsworth himself--

I know this isn't exactly sourced material, but it is somewhat supportive of the notion most Yankee fans espouse, he dictated his situation. If Torre could have ridden him, he would have. There's never been another high profile FA that he hasn't, from Stanton to Gordon to Karsay to Quantril, et al.

C'mon, I am not going back to look at all quotes about Farnsworth but I have seen him say (more than once) that he could have pitched a 2nd inning. Look at the numbers I put forth, I mean anyone who has ever played baseball knows that if you throw 8 pitches you can come out for a 2nd inning. Warming up takes more out of you than 8 pitches.

All I'm saying is, everything you are saying is flying in the face of the admittedly at times faulty, conventional wisdom. Torre's use of the bullpen, the words of reporters who are around the team day in and day out and the the logic of the numbers you DO point out. I'm not disagreeing with you logically here, he SHOULD be able to do all you suggest. I've often been frustrated when he's burned through a lineup for a 5-8 pitch inning at times when the pen was fried, the words of the yankee scribes and Torre's past behavior should indicate his usage, regardless of his words. Farns seems like kind of a clown to me anyway, and not exactly the type to man up and make clear his usage, I don't doubt he SAID what you suggest, but I feel like that was more about perception than anything.

Fair enough, but I don't see how extending a pitcher for another few outs when he is "on" and hasn't pitched much flies in the face of conventional wisdomBTW, just because a writer says something doesn't mean it is right or even that he is remotely an authority. Most of them don't know that much about the game. I mean Mike and the mad Dog know so little about baseball, but they are the most popular show.

, conventional wisdom regarding EVERY BEAT writer and EVERY ANNOUNCER who discussed how Farnsworth is used? Do you think they all somehow go this story wrong? This is not about OUR opinions in respect to Farns, I agree, he SHOULD be more availble, but based on any reliable reporting, based on the link I provided, everything we've read states that Farns was used in that manner. A few soundbytes from a guy who was definately on the record being unavailble for multiple games last year don't carry much weight. I don't know how much more simply to state this.

 

[ScottNorwood]

The Yanks could conceivably be the 5th best team in the AL this year (behind the red sox, tigers, indians and angels). The AL is f'n stacked. Any one of those 5 teams would be the best team in the NL.

And the Hawkins signing makes me want to poop blood.

 

[shadyridr]

The Yanks could conceivably be the 5th best team in the AL this year (behind the red sox, tigers, indians and angels). The AL is f'n stacked. Any one of those 5 teams would be the best team in the NL.And the Hawkins signing makes me want to poop blood.

I agree. Im not expecting a playoff berth but theyre building for the immediate future so Im still pretty happy.

 

[Liquid Tension]

The Yanks could conceivably be the 5th best team in the AL this year (behind the red sox, tigers, indians and angels). The AL is f'n stacked. Any one of those 5 teams would be the best team in the NL.And the Hawkins signing makes me want to poop blood.

I agree. Im not expecting a playoff berth but theyre building for the immediate future so Im still pretty happy.

I am expecting the playoffs from the Yankees.

 

[Balco]

The Yanks could conceivably be the 5th best team in the AL this year (behind the red sox, tigers, indians and angels). The AL is f'n stacked. Any one of those 5 teams would be the best team in the NL.And the Hawkins signing makes me want to poop blood.

I agree. Im not expecting a playoff berth but theyre building for the immediate future so Im still pretty happy.

I am expecting the playoffs from the Yankees.

It's possible they may have a couple more trades in them before the season, and if they are hanging around at the all star break they can make more, but that is not a playoff pitching staff. To expect Hughes, Chamberlain, and Kennedy to pitch more than 5 innings feach outing for the full year is asking too much, IMO. And their stupid decision to keep Chamberlain in the rotation (I 100 % believe he is going back to the pen by mid season if not earlier once management wakes up) instead of the bullpen gives the Yankees one of the worst bullpens in the majors.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

The Yanks could conceivably be the 5th best team in the AL this year (behind the red sox, tigers, indians and angels). The AL is f'n stacked. Any one of those 5 teams would be the best team in the NL.And the Hawkins signing makes me want to poop blood.

The Angels may beat the Yankees, and their placement in the AL West will by and large make the question of their "betterness" moot, but I think there's no way they are better than the Yanks.Cleveland, last year not withstanding, I do not think is better than the Yanks. I would call it a push.Sox and Les Tigres, I'll concede the consideration right now, but only Detroit really markedly improved and they sacracifed a lot of depth.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Sox and Les Tigres, I'll concede the consideration right now, but only Detroit really markedly improved and they sacracifed a lot of depth.

They did? Not for 2008.

 

[gadkins]

I came across Phil Hughes Blog if anybody is interested. http://philhughes.wordpress.com/

 

[Rebirtha]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Sox and Les Tigres, I'll concede the consideration right now, but only Detroit really markedly improved and they sacracifed a lot of depth.

They did? Not for 2008.

A lot might be overstating the case, but Maybin would have been a contributor and I think Miller would have put up a better season than the D-Train.

 

[shadyridr]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Good signing if he could play 1B, no risk at all. They also signed Jason Lane a few weeks ago to a minor league deal.

 

[ScottNorwood]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Good signing if he could play 1B, no risk at all. They also signed Jason Lane a few weeks ago to a minor league deal.

Considering Pedro Feliz cost about $9 mill, it's nice to get a similar sucky player for the league min.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

 

[ScottNorwood]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

Glenn Davis?

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

Glenn Davis?

Eric Anthony?

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

Glenn Davis?

Eric Anthony?

Daryle Ward?

 

[pillowpants]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

Glenn Davis?

Eric Anthony?

Daryle Ward?

Enos Cabell?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

Glenn Davis?

Eric Anthony?

Daryle Ward?

Enos Cabell?

Frank DiPino?

 

[Rebirtha]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

Glenn Davis?

Eric Anthony?

Daryle Ward?

Enos Cabell?

Frank DiPino?

Kevin Bass.

 

[Darth Cheney]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

Glenn Davis?

Eric Anthony?

Daryle Ward?

Enos Cabell?

Frank DiPino?

Kevin Bass.

Bill Doran?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

I am in the minority I guess, but I think this was a good signing. The guy hits lefties extremely well and this is what the Yanks need. He has a 950 OPS over the last 3 years against lefties and he can play 3rd (and they think 1st). Now I am not sure about his defense as can't say I have watched him, but his ZR and RF rating over the past few years are good.I am a fan of signing specialists if you are the Yankees. This is because the majority of the players won't be pinch hit for, but when you do you want a good matchup. getting a guy who is OK at both is not nearly as valuable as a guy who is a liability on one side, but a solid player the other way.

I assume Duncan would be used as the platoon OF'r giving Matsui, Damon, Abreu rests against lefties. Duncan should play every day against lefties and rotate with those guys, including Melky if he shows he can't hit lefties better.

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

I am in the minority I guess, but I think this was a good signing. The guy hits lefties extremely well and this is what the Yanks need. He has a 950 OPS over the last 3 years against lefties and he can play 3rd (and they think 1st). Now I am not sure about his defense as can't say I have watched him, but his ZR and RF rating over the past few years are good.I am a fan of signing specialists if you are the Yankees. This is because the majority of the players won't be pinch hit for, but when you do you want a good matchup. getting a guy who is OK at both is not nearly as valuable as a guy who is a liability on one side, but a solid player the other way.

I assume Duncan would be used as the platoon OF'r giving Matsui, Damon, Abreu rests against lefties. Duncan should play every day against lefties and rotate with those guys, including Melky if he shows he can't hit lefties better.

I like it too, he's a VERY streaky hitter, and a product of that park, but I still like what he could bring. He was a good defender as a I remember. That said though, and I don't know if was open to them, but I would have liked if they went after Dallas McPherson. He doesn't have Ensberg's "pedigree", but the upside and age are well in his favor and to me, filling this first base slot is about taking the upside reach.

I wonder if this precludes Jason Lane from learning 1b with all these guys in the mix.

 

[Balco]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

I am in the minority I guess, but I think this was a good signing. The guy hits lefties extremely well and this is what the Yanks need. He has a 950 OPS over the last 3 years against lefties and he can play 3rd (and they think 1st). Now I am not sure about his defense as can't say I have watched him, but his ZR and RF rating over the past few years are good.I am a fan of signing specialists if you are the Yankees. This is because the majority of the players won't be pinch hit for, but when you do you want a good matchup. getting a guy who is OK at both is not nearly as valuable as a guy who is a liability on one side, but a solid player the other way.

I assume Duncan would be used as the platoon OF'r giving Matsui, Damon, Abreu rests against lefties. Duncan should play every day against lefties and rotate with those guys, including Melky if he shows he can't hit lefties better.

I like it too, he's a VERY streaky hitter, and a product of that park, but I still like what he could bring. He was a good defender as a I remember. That said though, and I don't know if was open to them, but I would have liked if they went after Dallas McPherson. He doesn't had Ensberg's "pedigree", but the upside and age are well in his favor and to me, filling this first base slot is about taking the upside reach.

I wonder if this precludes Jason Lane from learning 1b with all these guys in the mix.

I loved the McPherson signing by the Marlins. Guy has had some back issues, but still has great potential at 27. I think the Yankees made a good signing here. Ensberg is a nice platoon option at 1st and DH.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

I am in the minority I guess, but I think this was a good signing. The guy hits lefties extremely well and this is what the Yanks need. He has a 950 OPS over the last 3 years against lefties and he can play 3rd (and they think 1st). Now I am not sure about his defense as can't say I have watched him, but his ZR and RF rating over the past few years are good.I am a fan of signing specialists if you are the Yankees. This is because the majority of the players won't be pinch hit for, but when you do you want a good matchup. getting a guy who is OK at both is not nearly as valuable as a guy who is a liability on one side, but a solid player the other way.

I assume Duncan would be used as the platoon OF'r giving Matsui, Damon, Abreu rests against lefties. Duncan should play every day against lefties and rotate with those guys, including Melky if he shows he can't hit lefties better.

I like it too, he's a VERY streaky hitter, and a product of that park, but I still like what he could bring. He was a good defender as a I remember. That said though, and I don't know if was open to them, but I would have liked if they went after Dallas McPherson. He doesn't have Ensberg's "pedigree", but the upside and age are well in his favor and to me, filling this first base slot is about taking the upside reach.

I wonder if this precludes Jason Lane from learning 1b with all these guys in the mix.

Muff dude>hiWTF with the blue text?

 

[Liquid Tension]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

I am in the minority I guess, but I think this was a good signing. The guy hits lefties extremely well and this is what the Yanks need. He has a 950 OPS over the last 3 years against lefties and he can play 3rd (and they think 1st). Now I am not sure about his defense as can't say I have watched him, but his ZR and RF rating over the past few years are good.I am a fan of signing specialists if you are the Yankees. This is because the majority of the players won't be pinch hit for, but when you do you want a good matchup. getting a guy who is OK at both is not nearly as valuable as a guy who is a liability on one side, but a solid player the other way.

I assume Duncan would be used as the platoon OF'r giving Matsui, Damon, Abreu rests against lefties. Duncan should play every day against lefties and rotate with those guys, including Melky if he shows he can't hit lefties better.

I like it too, he's a VERY streaky hitter, and a product of that park, but I still like what he could bring. He was a good defender as a I remember. That said though, and I don't know if was open to them, but I would have liked if they went after Dallas McPherson. He doesn't had Ensberg's "pedigree", but the upside and age are well in his favor and to me, filling this first base slot is about taking the upside reach.

I wonder if this precludes Jason Lane from learning 1b with all these guys in the mix.

I loved the McPherson signing by the Marlins. Guy has had some back issues, but still has great potential at 27. I think the Yankees made a good signing here. Ensberg is a nice platoon option at 1st and DH.

Kind of makes you wonder about Betemit also? He showed a nice glove and some pop in his bat (opposite field HR to LC at Yankee stadium shows some power). He is younger also. The Yankees seem to be hoarding 1st/3b types. Maybe the Yanks will finally move Jeter to CF as I have been asking for since they signed ARod? yeah, I know I am in the minority here as well, but think about how much better the Yanks would be with one or more of the guys at 3rd base in the lineup instead of Melky and IMO the defense would be better if ARod can still play SS (this may be a big if?)

Obviously, I am not a fan of Jeter's defense, but I think he tracks balls GREAT and he is faster than Melky and I bet Jeters total throw would be equal to Melky (who throws great, but takes a very long time to throw)

 

[NY/NJMFDIVER]

Morgan Ensberg signed to a minor league deal.

Link

Jason Lane, Morgan Ensberg...Any other crappy ex-Astros we can acquire?

Is Chris Burke available?

I am in the minority I guess, but I think this was a good signing. The guy hits lefties extremely well and this is what the Yanks need. He has a 950 OPS over the last 3 years against lefties and he can play 3rd (and they think 1st). Now I am not sure about his defense as can't say I have watched him, but his ZR and RF rating over the past few years are good.I am a fan of signing specialists if you are the Yankees. This is because the majority of the players won't be pinch hit for, but when you do you want a good matchup. getting a guy who is OK at both is not nearly as valuable as a guy who is a liability on one side, but a solid player the other way.

I assume Duncan would be used as the platoon OF'r giving Matsui, Damon, Abreu rests against lefties. Duncan should play every day against lefties and rotate with those guys, including Melky if he shows he can't hit lefties better.

I like it too, he's a VERY streaky hitter, and a product of that park, but I still like what he could bring. He was a good defender as a I remember. That said though, and I don't know if was open to them, but I would have liked if they went after Dallas McPherson. He doesn't had Ensberg's "pedigree", but the upside and age are well in his favor and to me, filling this first base slot is about taking the upside reach.

I wonder if this precludes Jason Lane from learning 1b with all these guys in the mix.

I loved the McPherson signing by the Marlins. Guy has had some back issues, but still has great potential at 27. I think the Yankees made a good signing here. Ensberg is a nice platoon option at 1st and DH.

Kind of makes you wonder about Betemit also? He showed a nice glove and some pop in his bat (opposite field HR to LC at Yankee stadium shows some power). He is younger also. The Yankees seem to be hoarding 1st/3b types. Maybe the Yanks will finally move Jeter to CF as I have been asking for since they signed ARod? yeah, I know I am in the minority here as well, but think about how much better the Yanks would be with one or more of the guys at 3rd base in the lineup instead of Melky and IMO the defense would be better if ARod can still play SS (this may be a big if?)

Obviously, I am not a fan of Jeter's defense, but I think he tracks balls GREAT and he is faster than Melky and I bet Jeters total throw would be equal to Melky (who throws great, but takes a very long time to throw)

We are right at the cusp of it being a viable discussion. I agree, realistically, he should be reading for the transition and should move fully next season, but my guess is, he'll want to play it this year and then open new Yankee Stadium at short, which takes us through the 2009 season, which he'll be 35 years old in. Its about the age where Ripken switched, so its an easy sell at that point(theoretically). Yount and Banks had switched in their early 30's, so I hope he's "Captain-like" about it. Unfortunately, St. Joe didn't plant the seeds and it will be one of the first major tempests of the Giradri tenure. He should really be switching next year, but I wouldn't plan on it.The other factor is, do you want to line up a sacrafcial lamb for the slot? Manny Alexander was a halfway decent prospect who seemed to get really shaken and spooked at the spectre of replacing Rip and really fizzled out. Don't know if he would have been anything, but the fan and Ripken reaction didn't help. I'd hate to burn out Betemit, who could be a halfway decent player I think.

 

[Liquid Tension]

It's a health thing with the whole "Only 1 inning" thing with Farnsworth...

His back is in pretty bad shape, and getting him warmed up, brining him into the game, having him sit on the bench and cool down, and then back into the game was thought to increase the likelihood of ineffectiveness/injury...

He has a history of burning out his veteran relievers, so If Torre could have pitched him more, I think he would have...

What do you mean by the bolded statement? Torre had plenty of chances to pitch him more than one inning and NEVER did. The fact that he was warmed up and pitched a 1,2,3 inning and his stuff looked good would make you think he would bring him in and get a few more outs and extend the time until you got to Rivera or whoever, but Torre never did. Also, the facts show that when Farnsworth did pitch in more than 1 inning he was very effective, even the 3 times the previous year

Apparently, Farns set his own ground rules, no back to back innings, no back to back days, based on the health of his back. Which I don't intrinsically have a problem with, if he has physical issues, that still would have left him for up to 80 innings a year at optimal health. But there was always something with that guy, a crick, a tweak, and he's out for 4 games.What did you see of Torre to make you think he wouldn't have run this guy like a government mule if he had the chance or choice? Farns was a ####.

Farns did not set his own rules. In fact I saw him interviewed and he said he had great stuff and after throwing 8 pitches to retire the side he wanted to go back in there, but instead Torre went to Bruney who didn't have it.What makes me think Torre didn't do that with all the guys. When Bruney was on Torre didn't let him continue either. Torre's MO was to let a guy pitch an inning and have him get up almost every day regardless of whether he pitched the inning. It is much easier to pitch 2 innings one day and get a full day rest and then pitch 2 innings and get a full days rest than pitch 4 straight days for 1 inning. Torre never got that and this is why the bullpen was always warn out. Bruney's control stinks but he has very good stuff. It isn't a coincidence that Bruney had an ERA of 2.70, 1.64, and 1.04 in April, May and June, but got lit up the rest of the year.

The Yankees have some good arms in the bullpen that people don't talk about and I am hopeful Girardi can get a lot more out of them than Torre did. Ohlendorf, Bruney, Starvin Marvin and even Britton all have some ability and are young. Of course they are all righties.

I've looked for quotes on his usage, and I've seen nothing to support what you suggest. If you can anything backing that up, I'd love to see it, but based on Torre's many WFAN appearances and just his track record, I think Farns is quite fragile, especially in his own mind:http://xmmlbchat.blogspot.com/2007/09/kyle...-available.html

the rules about his usage come from Farnsworth himself--

I know this isn't exactly sourced material, but it is somewhat supportive of the notion most Yankee fans espouse, he dictated his situation. If Torre could have ridden him, he would have. There's never been another high profile FA that he hasn't, from Stanton to Gordon to Karsay to Quantril, et al.

C'mon, I am not going back to look at all quotes about Farnsworth but I have seen him say (more than once) that he could have pitched a 2nd inning. Look at the numbers I put forth, I mean anyone who has ever played baseball knows that if you throw 8 pitches you can come out for a 2nd inning. Warming up takes more out of you than 8 pitches.

All I'm saying is, everything you are saying is flying in the face of the admittedly at times faulty, conventional wisdom. Torre's use of the bullpen, the words of reporters who are around the team day in and day out and the the logic of the numbers you DO point out. I'm not disagreeing with you logically here, he SHOULD be able to do all you suggest. I've often been frustrated when he's burned through a lineup for a 5-8 pitch inning at times when the pen was fried, the words of the yankee scribes and Torre's past behavior should indicate his usage, regardless of his words. Farns seems like kind of a clown to me anyway, and not exactly the type to man up and make clear his usage, I don't doubt he SAID what you suggest, but I feel like that was more about perception than anything.

Fair enough, but I don't see how extending a pitcher for another few outs when he is "on" and hasn't pitched much flies in the face of conventional wisdomBTW, just because a writer says something doesn't mean it is right or even that he is remotely an authority. Most of them don't know that much about the game. I mean Mike and the mad Dog know so little about baseball, but they are the most popular show.

, conventional wisdom regarding EVERY BEAT writer and EVERY ANNOUNCER who discussed how Farnsworth is used? Do you think they all somehow go this story wrong? This is not about OUR opinions in respect to Farns, I agree, he SHOULD be more availble, but based on any reliable reporting, based on the link I provided, everything we've read states that Farns was used in that manner. A few soundbytes from a guy who was definately on the record being unavailble for multiple games last year don't carry much weight. I don't know how much more simply to state this.

Your link doesn't show anything other than for a few games Farnsworth wasn't available at all because of a stiff neck. this has NOTHING to do with our discussion. And if EVERY BEAT WRITER and EVERY ANNOUNCER always made this the case, you would think you could come up with 20 quotes, let alone 1! The facts clearly show that the very few times that Farnsworth DID pitch more than an inning he was VERY good so how in the world did someone conclude he can't pitch more than one inning??? If they did, they were simply wrong because we have yet to see him get hit hard that way? Maybe they are of the opinion that would be the case, but we haven't seen anything to justify that opinion and in fact we have seen the opposite. Not only that I have seen Farnsworth himself say he could have pitched.

You can't show me any quotes and even if you did, that is only an opinion, but I show the facts that he has been good when used in these spots and you laugh?

 

[wilked]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?

Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

 

[Liquid Tension]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

Compared to last year they added starters that will pickup about 25% of the games played (40 starts) and Joba will either add another 20 to that number or be in the bullpen for 4 times as long as last year.After being the clear dominant offense, that should be enough to get them into the playoffs and let it roll from there.

 

[shadyridr]

So did the Yankees do anything to improve the team from last year, this offseason?Surprising for the team with by far the highest payroll

Nope. Not a thing but with the free agents available this offseason what could they have done? IMO they did everything right (ie didnt sign average FAs to big money deals & held onto their young players). Did the Sox do anything to improve their team? Nope