Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Maybe by July...
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***Officialish Detroit Tigers Thread*** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Doctor Detroit
- Start date
whoknew
Footballguy
I bet closes Coke to start the season. With Smyly in the bullpen as the go-to lefty.
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teamramrod
Footballguy
Where is Wille Hernandez when you need him?When pondering the question, please pull up his lifetime stats.I remember this because I loved me some baseball card collecting as a child. There were certain stats that would stick out in your mind from reading them on the back.So here is the million dollar question.What pitcher went 0-13 in one year, that's right the big OFER and in MLB no less, not minors or Japan ball.and went on to win the MVP and Cy Young two years later?Peace
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Hernandez pitched 140 innings, which was pretty amazing for a reliever. He did the job of what two relief pitchers do today.
teamramrod
Footballguy
West Coast (Michigan that is)....
I have April 1st off, who else is around that wants to hang out and watch JV no hit the Twinkies?
Peace
I have April 1st off, who else is around that wants to hang out and watch JV no hit the Twinkies?
Peace
Gopher State
Footballguy
Detroit Tigers: Openly Shopping for a Closer Delays Bruce Rondon's
Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports
The Bruce Rondon era for the Detroit Tigers is on hold.
Just one day after Tigers manager Jim Leyland openly talked about his worry about the closers role to start the season, CBS Sports.com Baseball Insider, Danny Knobler, writes Tuesday that the Tigers are openly looking to acquire a closer via trade.
The Rondon experiment was a of roll the dice from the very start.
Without ever throwing a pitch at the major-league level, the 22-year-old hard throwing Venezuelan was expected to start the year as the Tigers ninth-inning main man.
Control issues, however, have plagued Rondon in his four spring training appearances.
In 3.2 innings, Rondon walked five batters while striking out six. Add the five hits allowed and he carries a WHIP of 2.727.
The main concern appears to be the lack of strikes. Even with such a small sample size, Rondon has a walk rate of 12.3 per nine. A closer look at his minor-league statistics shows that he struggles when reaching a new level.
With the Single-A West Michigan club in 2011, Rondon walked 34 in 40 innings, good enough for a 7.6 walks per nine.
With Toledo—the Tigers Triple-A club last year—he walked seven in eight innings, topping out at 7.9 walks per nine.
Rondon was able to succeed at West Michigan because he simply did not allow base hits. In that 40 innings, Rondon only allowed 22 hits and zero home runs. When you throw in the 61 strikeouts recorded in that number, Rondon’s wildness never came back to hurt him.
Rondon had better control last year in stints with Advanced-A Lakeland and Double-A Erie. In 45 innings with those clubs, Rondon only walked 19. While not outstanding, the walks per nine ratio dropped to roughly 3.8.
The Tigers gambled that he would be able to harness his wildness and—if these reports are true—lost.
After an offseason that saw starting pitcher Rick Porcello offered to anyone who would listen, the Tigers came to spring training without an offer they were willing to take.
What started with Rondon being pulled from his next scheduled appearance to Leyland’s comments on the radio to in effect start trade negotiations via the media has turned what should have been a quiet spring training into a circus.
There are other closers on the market.
Andrew Bailey has lost his job as the Boston Red Sox closer and could be had if the price is right and the Washington Nationals have three closers at the back end of their bullpen.
Wow, trading for a closer this early in the season is going to cost the tigers some good farm talent.
Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports
The Bruce Rondon era for the Detroit Tigers is on hold.
Just one day after Tigers manager Jim Leyland openly talked about his worry about the closers role to start the season, CBS Sports.com Baseball Insider, Danny Knobler, writes Tuesday that the Tigers are openly looking to acquire a closer via trade.
The Rondon experiment was a of roll the dice from the very start.
Without ever throwing a pitch at the major-league level, the 22-year-old hard throwing Venezuelan was expected to start the year as the Tigers ninth-inning main man.
Control issues, however, have plagued Rondon in his four spring training appearances.
In 3.2 innings, Rondon walked five batters while striking out six. Add the five hits allowed and he carries a WHIP of 2.727.
The main concern appears to be the lack of strikes. Even with such a small sample size, Rondon has a walk rate of 12.3 per nine. A closer look at his minor-league statistics shows that he struggles when reaching a new level.
With the Single-A West Michigan club in 2011, Rondon walked 34 in 40 innings, good enough for a 7.6 walks per nine.
With Toledo—the Tigers Triple-A club last year—he walked seven in eight innings, topping out at 7.9 walks per nine.
Rondon was able to succeed at West Michigan because he simply did not allow base hits. In that 40 innings, Rondon only allowed 22 hits and zero home runs. When you throw in the 61 strikeouts recorded in that number, Rondon’s wildness never came back to hurt him.
Rondon had better control last year in stints with Advanced-A Lakeland and Double-A Erie. In 45 innings with those clubs, Rondon only walked 19. While not outstanding, the walks per nine ratio dropped to roughly 3.8.
The Tigers gambled that he would be able to harness his wildness and—if these reports are true—lost.
After an offseason that saw starting pitcher Rick Porcello offered to anyone who would listen, the Tigers came to spring training without an offer they were willing to take.
What started with Rondon being pulled from his next scheduled appearance to Leyland’s comments on the radio to in effect start trade negotiations via the media has turned what should have been a quiet spring training into a circus.
There are other closers on the market.
Andrew Bailey has lost his job as the Boston Red Sox closer and could be had if the price is right and the Washington Nationals have three closers at the back end of their bullpen.
Wow, trading for a closer this early in the season is going to cost the tigers some good farm talent.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I doubt they make any substantial trade for a closer. They have Villarreal, Al Al, Benoit and Coke and I think any of them can handle the closer duties depending on the day. Rondon still needs work, bring him along and then look to make a trade later if you absolutely need to.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Jose Valverde and his agent, Scott Boras, are open to signing a one-year contract if the Tigers are interested.
"Jose Valverde would be thrilled to pitch for the Tigers on a one-year deal," Boras said during a Monday telephone conversation.
If they don't make a trade Valverde could be a short term answer, the price for Valverde has to be right
"Jose Valverde would be thrilled to pitch for the Tigers on a one-year deal," Boras said during a Monday telephone conversation.
If they don't make a trade Valverde could be a short term answer, the price for Valverde has to be right
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
We've been through this before. Closers come and go all the time. My vote to start the year goes to Al Al. 
Saves leaders for 2012:
51 Jim Johnson, Baltimore
48 Fernando Rodney, Tampa Bay
42 R Soriano, NYY
42 Motte, St. Louis
42 Kimbrel, Atlanta
39 Perez, Cleveland
38 Papelbon, Philadelphia
38 A Chapman, Cincinnatti
37 J Nathan, Texas
36 Hanrahan, Pittsburgh
Saves leaders for 2011:
49 J Valverde, Detroit
46 J Axford, Milwaukee
46 Kimbrel, Atlanta
45 Putz, Arizona
44 M Rivera, NYY
43 H Bell, SD
43 D Storen, Washington
40 Hanrahan, Pittsburgh
37 B League, Seattle
36 B Wilson, SF
Saves leaders for 2012:
51 Jim Johnson, Baltimore
48 Fernando Rodney, Tampa Bay
42 R Soriano, NYY
42 Motte, St. Louis
42 Kimbrel, Atlanta
39 Perez, Cleveland
38 Papelbon, Philadelphia
38 A Chapman, Cincinnatti
37 J Nathan, Texas
36 Hanrahan, Pittsburgh
Saves leaders for 2011:
49 J Valverde, Detroit
46 J Axford, Milwaukee
46 Kimbrel, Atlanta
45 Putz, Arizona
44 M Rivera, NYY
43 H Bell, SD
43 D Storen, Washington
40 Hanrahan, Pittsburgh
37 B League, Seattle
36 B Wilson, SF
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I'd rather just take my chances with what they have for right now or look elsewhere.
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Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Still do not understand why they pulled the plug on Rondon after only 3 innings of work. Keep throwing him out there in a couple of non-save situations to see if he can work out his control issues. That is what spring training is for.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
Good point.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
No kidding Borass. He'd be thrilled if his phone would ring once....his wife probably doesn't even call him.Honestly, I think it is a compliment to the 2013 Detroit Tigers that media types and Tiger haters like gopher are making a big deal out of Detroit's closer situation. It tells me that this team is damn good and they are searching for ways to criticize it. Have at it d-bags.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
I'm a little surprised Valverde doesn't have a couple offers out there. I'd add him if I were the Twins. I like his histrionics.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The 2 pitchers I was most happy with leaving the Tigers were Brad Penny & Valverde. If they are going to take a year between pitches they better be a lot better than that.
Gopher State
Footballguy
No one hates the tigers, now maybe the sox or yankees, vegas odds for tigers to win alcs:No kidding Borass. He'd be thrilled if his phone would ring once....his wife probably doesn't even call him.Honestly, I think it is a compliment to the 2013 Detroit Tigers that media types and Tiger haters like gopher are making a big deal out of Detroit's closer situation. It tells me that this team is damn good and they are searching for ways to criticize it. Have at it d-bags.
Detroit Tigers 4/1
Los Angeles Angels 9/2
New York Yankees 7/1
Texas Rangers 7/1
Tampa Bay Rays 11/1
Boston Red Sox 12/1
Oakland Athletics 16/1
Baltimore Orioles 20/1
Chicago White Sox 20/1
Kansas City Royals 28/1
Cleveland Indians 35/1
Minnesota Twins 50/1
Jays are 15/4?
I would say your a little thin skinned if you think I hate the tigers. Tigers sign/trade for a closer they own the WS. My twins are rebuilding for 2015, we talk about them in "15" I wish the tigers best of luck, loaded team.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
Define cheap, $3-4 million? He would be better served going somewhere else, but it appears the market believes his skills have declined. I would rather take my chances elsewhere, but he is not a bad Plan D.No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
$200If you look back to the beginning of 2010 I've never been a huge Valverde fan, he is the Hispanic Todd Jones. After game 1 of the ALCS I wouldn't care if he ever pitched as a Tiger again, especially in any big game.But the guy was 110 for 118 (93%) in save opportunities in three years as closer, although he was admittedly worthless in any other situation, he was very good in his role. So if it is between trading anything worth the #### to the Cubs for Carlos "Meltdown on base on balls" Marmol and bringing back Valverde to at least be a short-term solution, put me squarely in the Big Potato camp. I like Tyler Clippard also but he's Fernando Rodney with a less effective change. Again, not sure you want to trade anything for a guy like that. Andrew Bailey? Yes, I think he's more in line for what we are looking for and maybe worth something via trade chips. There are other guys out there as well but I think there is too much external panic, I certainly hope the Tigers aren't truly worried. I really think Villarreal in particular and Al Al can be tried in the role with Coke and Benoit closing as needed. Benoit probably still best to bridge as the 8th inning guy but I can see Villarreal handling that role as well. Big fan of his but he did seem nervous under pressure last year, some guys just can't handle the closer's role.Define cheap, $3-4 million? He would be better served going somewhere else, but it appears the market believes his skills have declined. I would rather take my chances elsewhere, but he is not a bad Plan D.No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
If that closer situation isn't resolved by May, I think the Tigers are doomed to 3rd place this year.
Gopher State
Footballguy
A voice of reason, you can get Valverde for pennies on dollar, he has got everthing to prove, a one year deal at the min would be a great dealNo it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
If they didn't win 90 games in this division with me closing, I'd be disappointed.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Tigers don't play the White Sox until July 9th, but have 13 games with them between July 9th and August 13th. July and August like like big months, 32 division games between the 5th of July and the 22nd of August. Only one west coast trip also, that happens in April. After April 21st the furthest west they'll have to go is Texas. 
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
chicago road trip in order for you??Tigers don't play the White Sox until July 9th, but have 13 games with them between July 9th and August 13th. July and August like like big months, 32 division games between the 5th of July and the 22nd of August. Only one west coast trip also, that happens in April. After April 21st the furthest west they'll have to go is Texas.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
What could Valverde command right now with no market for his services and all the closer spots secured? We already know he would like to return to Detroit.Vet minimum with incentives?No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
You would have to believe Valverde would give us 10-15 more wins than say someone like Coke. I would hope Coke would not blow more than 15 saves.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
I think you're being too kind. It's obvious a muddled closer situation would send Detroit to the basement of the mighty AL Central.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Yeah, why not. Give him $1 million and load the contract with incentives. 30 appearances=$2 million, 30 saves=$3 million more, etc.What could Valverde command right now with no market for his services and all the closer spots secured? We already know he would like to return to Detroit.Vet minimum with incentives?No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
That doesn't sound like a contract Boras would sign off on.Yeah, why not. Give him $1 million and load the contract with incentives. 30 appearances=$2 million, 30 saves=$3 million more, etc.What could Valverde command right now with no market for his services and all the closer spots secured? We already know he would like to return to Detroit.Vet minimum with incentives?No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
teamramrod
Footballguy
Whats 10% of Zero?peace'scrumptrulescent said:That doesn't sound like a contract Boras would sign off on.'Doctor Detroit said:Yeah, why not. Give him $1 million and load the contract with incentives. 30 appearances=$2 million, 30 saves=$3 million more, etc.What could Valverde command right now with no market for his services and all the closer spots secured? We already know he would like to return to Detroit.Vet minimum with incentives?No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
A little bit is better than nada.'scrumptrulescent said:That doesn't sound like a contract Boras would sign off on.'Doctor Detroit said:Yeah, why not. Give him $1 million and load the contract with incentives. 30 appearances=$2 million, 30 saves=$3 million more, etc.What could Valverde command right now with no market for his services and all the closer spots secured? We already know he would like to return to Detroit.Vet minimum with incentives?No it isn't. The guy has always had control issues, we talked about them in here last year when only three or four of us even knew who the #### he was. You have to keep his confidence level up and work out the mechanical issues he has. Keep throwing him back out there can do more harm than good. He's 22 years old and very raw, patience is what is needed with him. Also I'm not opposed to bringing back Valverde on the cheap.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I think you're being too kind. It's obvious a muddled closer situation would send Detroit to the basement of the mighty AL Central.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I think he'll win the spot although I think he may be better served as a middle relief/situational guy. I've always been a Porcello backer, at some point I really do think he'll provide more consistency and be a very solid #4 type starter.
igbomb
Footballguy
I hate the idea of putting Porcello in the pen. The guy has been a really solid #4 starter and is a fantastic option at #5. Contrary to popular belief, the Tigers do NOT have a surplus of starters. Put Smyly in Toledo and make him the first call-up when the inevitabl happens and someone pulls a muscle or gets a blister.I really hope there is no tinkering with the rotation or pen this spring. This team is good to go. Stay healthy, and let's get this thing started.
igbomb
Footballguy
Coke did great work in the playoffs, but he would be a terrible choice for closer. The guy's splits against RHers is not good. He's a lefty specialist that had a great run late last year. Let him play to his strengths.It's also funny to me how Coke used to get skewered by the Detroit fans and now he is everyone's favorite bullpen guy.
tri-man 47
Footballguy
It's hard to determine if this is true improvement from a talented guy or if these spring outings only reflect his general success in early innings. It'd be great if he has taken another step forward with his skills.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Porcello consistently falls apart around the 5th inning when he reaches the order for the 3rd time. Can he progress and get over that barrier? Sure, maybe. Not a bet I'd make though. He's a perfect fit in long relief as the 6th man right now. He will get starts, pitchers get hurt, to prove he can get over that hurdle though. I'd rather open with Smyly as the #5.Still don't see any reason to panic about the 9th either. Give it time, if it's still an issue come Memorial Day then something must be done.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Smyly & Coke as the lefties in the bullpen, Rick P. as the #5 starter.
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
I'm a big Porcello guy but this is not accurate, he has been far from solid. He is madly inconsistent and looks like a different pitcher game to game. Smyly is ready now, he can work as a swing/fill starter and as the main middle relief guy. If he needed more work you send him to Toldeo, but he's one of your ten best arms so you keep him with the big club.'igbomb said:
igbomb
Footballguy
I think Tigers fans have pretty inflated understandings of what a #4 starter is. Last year, the Tigers rotation was #1 in all of baseball by WAR. Yes, they had Verlander, but the back end of the rotation really buoyed that spot. And over the last three years, Porcello is #42 by WAR in all of baseball. Dead even with Shaun Marcum and Matt Garza, and a bit ahead of guys like Kyle Lohse, all with similar numbers of starts.
Tigers fans are spoiled. There haven't been five teams in the last couple years with a better #4, and I'm not sure there would be a better #5 in baseball.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Rick Porcello is godawful. YWIA.
scrumptrulescent
Footballguy
Thatsa pretty good #5/long reliever. TIA
tri-man 47
Footballguy
But he's our godawful.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Glad to see the Porcello-bashing. Mad Max didn't really get going until people in here started bad mouthing him.
I really thought Smyly was going to be the man, but Porcello is looking like he is going to win the job. Porcello has only been adequate the last few years and has not really lived up to the promise of his draft position and great rookie season. It seems though he is showing some signs of life with better pitches and better control. I think the competition for the last starter job has been a good thing and perhaps will propel him to reach his potential.
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