Once and for all Graham or Gronk? (1 Viewer)

[Prositter]

I woudl bet I will have to make the decision at the start of round 2 wheter I shoudl take Graham or Gronk. I woudl like to knwo what you will do.

Graham

pluses:

-Beleives he left 30 catches on the field

-Is easily the #1 target of Brees

-High powered offense

minuses:

-Can he repeat?

-Will the absence of Sean Peyton affect his numbers, or the offenses in general?

-Brres had his best season by leaps and bounds last year can he repeat?

Gronk

pluses:

-High powered offense

-One of Brady's favorite targets and arguably #1 int he red zone

-Brady will put up numbers

minuses:

-Hernandex was hurt for a portion of last year whcih might cut into his numbers

-LLoyd is ont he team and may steal some targets. I have heard the theory about the entire pie gettign bigger, but how big can it get?

-Only one year of history

-Had an injury knock out of college

Where do you stand ont he issue?

 

[Heep]

Graham in redraft, Gronk in dynasty...

 

[Lott's Fingertip]

Graham in redraft, Gronk in dynasty...

Why the difference in dynasty?I see them as about equal... I think Graham is faster and more athletic, but Gronk is a beast and holds onto the ball no matter how hard he is hit.I'll take Graham due to his clearer path to continued elite target numbers.

 

[Run It Up]

Gronk in all formats all universes.

 

[The Real Hipster Doofus]

Graham in redraft, Gronk in dynasty...

Interesting, because I have it the exact opposite. I prefer Gronk straight up by a slight margin, but the fact that Brady is older than Brees makes me lean towards Graham for dynasty.

 

[bengalbuck]

I like Graham better, especially in PPR. He has less competition for targets.

Since last year, NO lost one of their top WRs in Robert Meachem and New England added a WR some are predicting will finish top 10 in Brandon Lloyd.

I see Gronk competing with 3 other elite WR/TEs for targets. Whereas Graham has just Colston and Sproles (who is only on the field about 1/3rd of the snaps).

Arguably, Graham has a little more upside due to the fact that this is only his 4th year of organized football since early high school as he only played one year at Miami as a part-time starter, sparingly as a rookie in 2010 and then the monster season last year. Both guys trajectories are pointing up obviously, but the arrow for Graham is almost straight up.

 

[bengalbuck]

Graham in redraft, Gronk in dynasty...

Interesting, because I have it the exact opposite. I prefer Gronk straight up by a slight margin, but the fact that Brady is older than Brees makes me lean towards Graham for dynasty.

I can see an argument for either in dynasty. One of the things potentially in Gronk's favor is that he is locked up to a long-term deal and Hernandez/Welker are not. I think Welker especially is a guy who NE could decide to let walk after the season as it fits their pattern of letting go of guys a year early instead of overpaying for old guys. If Welker and his 175 targets leaves after next season, Gronk could see his targets take a big jump in 2013...

 

[FavreCo]

Graham in redraft, Gronk in dynasty...

Interesting, because I have it the exact opposite. I prefer Gronk straight up by a slight margin, but the fact that Brady is older than Brees makes me lean towards Graham for dynasty.

This is correct.

 

[Lavachebeadsman]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

 

[Banger]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

 

[Run It Up]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

Guaranteed #1 Redzone target for the pats.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

Guaranteed #1 Redzone target for the pats.

Guaranteed you're a Patriots fan and offer nothing but a biased opinion to this thread. We get it.

 

[Run It Up]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

Guaranteed #1 Redzone target for the pats.

Guaranteed you're a Patriots fan and offer nothing but a biased opinion to this thread. We get it.

As opposed to the other 100% of the posters in here offering there biased opinions?Im confused by your dumb logic. You've confused me with how dumb your logic is.Or 99% rather, cant be counting people calling out the one dissenter simply because he is a pats fan...

 

[Silverstreak]

...as much as I love Gronk, with Hernandez healthy and the addition of Lloyd I like Grahm

 

[Road Warriors]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

Disagree on most of this.Less weapons = more coverage rolled his way. Not necessarily a positive.Team with a bad D - NE / NO situations seems fairly equal at this time.More of a complete player? Unpack this a bit.Younger? Graham DOB: 11/1985 Gronk DOB: 4/1989 I'm not sure this debate is worth the time or effort, though. Both are exceptional talents in great situations with what should be a very long run as the elite pair of TE in the game. Graham may see more targets, Gronk may see more TD opportunities. I might lean Graham in PPR, Gronk in non-PPR, but the gap between these two is small and the gap between this pair and the rest of the TE field is large.

 

[Banger]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

Guaranteed #1 Redzone target for the pats.

I agree but the same can be said for Graham. Believe me, I love Gronk and have him in a big money dynasty league.

 

[Run It Up]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

Guaranteed #1 Redzone target for the pats.

I agree but the same can be said for Graham. Believe me, I love Gronk and have him in a big money dynasty league.

I dont dispute that at all. I just think the Pats offense (and team) is better, thus more redzone opportunities. I also dont see gronks piece of the pie getting any smaller. He does things no one else on that team (or in the NFL) can do.

 

[Rick James]

Why is Jimmy Graham always touted as the better PPR player than Gronk?

Gronk caught 90 balls last year. Graham caught 99. Is that really significant enough to overcome Gronk's huge lead in TDs and slight lead in yardage?

The answer is obviously no, but I'd like to hear explanations.

 

[Spike]

Being a Pats homer, I see most (if not all) of their games; preseason, regular season and playoffs.

I believe their OL woes (and they are certainly there) could mean more time blocking for Gronk. Also, the additional weapons on offense could mean fewer targets for him this year.

I'd go with Graham in redraft, much as it pains me to say it.

 

[SproutDaddy]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

Guaranteed #1 Redzone target for the pats.

Guaranteed you're a Patriots fan and offer nothing but a biased opinion to this thread. We get it.

As opposed to the other 100% of the posters in here offering there biased opinions?Im confused by your dumb logic. You've confused me with how dumb your logic is.Or 99% rather, cant be counting people calling out the one dissenter simply because he is a pats fan...

I've seen you stink up numerous threads over the past year with your homerism. There are no opinions in this thread that come near the biased opinions that you offer. Pretty sure I'm not alone here in thinking this. My logic is sound and solid. You're confused due to your one dimensional thinking, or you're just dumb.There is no right or wrong answer to this question. I don't understand why people are beating this too death. Both are phenomenal players. I'm a Saints fan, and I have yet to offer an opinion in these threads. Hernandez also sees many red zone targets as Colston does so I wouldn't necessarily say either guy is the #1 target there. If I were trying to choose between the 2past it would come down to the injury factor which Gronk has a history. I remember his back being a huge ? Coming out. Also, Graham is still learning the game so I'd say he still has upside.

 

[Run It Up]

I've seen you stink up numerous threads over the past year with your homerism. There are no opinions in this thread that come near the biased opinions that you offer. Pretty sure I'm not alone here in thinking this. My logic is sound and solid. You're confused due to your one dimensional thinking, or you're just dumb.

No, it isnt.My post was very straight forward, poster was claiming that Grahams role is set in stone, whereas Gronks wasnt.

Which I disagree with completely, I simply stated that Gronk is guaranteed to be the #1 Redzone target for his team, obviously an opinion as im not from the future or a wizard.

Which you apparently felt it was necessary to personally attack me over. Would you have liked me to draw up some charts and graphs that exactly zero other people in this thread have done?

I could talk in depth and in great detail about my opinions of both, I was simply trying to make a point. I personally dont give a #### about if you care how I carry myself, I was just drawing attention to how dumb your logic was. My mannerisms are my own, if you dont like it ignore me, I bring varying shades of content and commentary to this board, I dont expect anyone to agree with me or my opinions - because thats not how life works.

 

[Magic Football Shoes]

People paying market prices for Gronk are going to be disappointed this season. The Pats mix it up from year to year and game to game and have another great TE. He won't be a bust, but I think Graham is the easy call here.

 

[Rick James]

People paying market prices for Gronk are going to be disappointed this season. The Pats mix it up from year to year and game to game and have another great TE. He won't be a bust, but I think Graham is the easy call here.

Do they? Wes Welker has caught 100+ balls in 4/5 seasons and was hurt the other season.

Randy Moss went 1,000/10 for 3 straight seasons before he stopped caring and was traded in year# 4.

Seems to me that when Bill Bellichick has weapons, he uses the crap out of them.

 

[RUSF18]

Why is Jimmy Graham always touted as the better PPR player than Gronk?Gronk caught 90 balls last year. Graham caught 99. Is that really significant enough to overcome Gronk's huge lead in TDs and slight lead in yardage?The answer is obviously no, but I'd like to hear explanations.

Receptions tend to be more consistent year to year, while TDs tend to fluctuate. That's my best effort at explaining it, at least.

 

[Banger]

Why is Jimmy Graham always touted as the better PPR player than Gronk?Gronk caught 90 balls last year. Graham caught 99. Is that really significant enough to overcome Gronk's huge lead in TDs and slight lead in yardage?The answer is obviously no, but I'd like to hear explanations.

Receptions tend to be more consistent year to year, while TDs tend to fluctuate. That's my best effort at explaining it, at least.

In most situations I would agree but Gronk has played 2 years and has 10 and 17 TDs. He's a redzone threat like no other in the league on an incredibly potent offense. I don't think he scores 17 again but 12 sounds about right.

 

[Beerguzzler]

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. You get the guy you can get latest in the draft. Don't see much differentiating them.

 

[Run It Up]

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. You get the guy you can get latest in the draft. Don't see much differentiating them.

Go on.Only a few late round TEs imo with any upside let alone the upside of Gronk or Graham.Pettigrew, Olsen, Gresham and Bennett.

 

[RUSF18]

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. You get the guy you can get latest in the draft. Don't see much differentiating them.

Go on.Only a few late round TEs imo with any upside let alone the upside of Gronk or Graham.Pettigrew, Olsen, Gresham and Bennett.

He's saying if Gronk is sitting there for your 10th overall, and you KNOW he won't be there at 15 but Graham will be, you take someone else at 10 and get Graham at 15.Or vice versa.Key word for this plan being "know".

 

[Run It Up]

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. You get the guy you can get latest in the draft. Don't see much differentiating them.

Go on.Only a few late round TEs imo with any upside let alone the upside of Gronk or Graham.Pettigrew, Olsen, Gresham and Bennett.

He's saying if Gronk is sitting there for your 10th overall, and you KNOW he won't be there at 15 but Graham will be, you take someone else at 10 and get Graham at 15.Or vice versa.Key word for this plan being "know".

Latest between the two, gotchya. I also dont disagree, if Gronk goes right before my pick and Graham is there, I absolutely take him.

 

[Heep]

Graham in redraft, Gronk in dynasty...

Interesting, because I have it the exact opposite. I prefer Gronk straight up by a slight margin, but the fact that Brady is older than Brees makes me lean towards Graham for dynasty.

Gronk is almost 3 years younger and has more competition for targets this year. That's how I looked at it. Im in a 1.5 PPR for TEs draft right now and traded down from 1.01 to 1.06 and landed Graham (with Gronk still on the board)

 

[LHUCKS]

Graham redraft. Gronk for dynasty.

 

[Banger]

Gronk had 144 targets and 90 receptions and Brady threw 611 passes so 23.5% of them went Gronk's way

Graham had 167 targets and 99 receptions and Brees threw for 657 passes so 25.4% of the passes went Graham's way

Looking at those numbers I'm not sure if there's really anywhere for Graham to go target / reception wise and I don't really think Brees can throw many more passes. On the flip side I think it is possible that Brady throws more passes but his pie may shrink a bit % wise. As always with TEs it'll come down to the TDs. I said Graham earlier but as I think about it it's really a coin flip....

 

[Road Warriors]

Why is Jimmy Graham always touted as the better PPR player than Gronk?Gronk caught 90 balls last year. Graham caught 99. Is that really significant enough to overcome Gronk's huge lead in TDs and slight lead in yardage?The answer is obviously no, but I'd like to hear explanations.

For this upcoming season, I would guess that Graham will see 30+ more targets than Gronk, due to the number of weapons each team has. I wouldn't be surprised to see Graham with 15 - 20 more receptions this year. With TDs being a volatile stat, and my projections coming in with this gap in targets and receptions, I'd lean slightly to Graham in PPR redraft this year, as I see that as a more reliable stat projection than TDs.As I stated, the difference between these two ( from a FFL scoring perspective ) is small enough to not matter to me. I'll take either. Happily!

 

[LayinTheSmackDown]

Graham in all formats. 17 Tds is NOT happening again for Gronk.

 

[pizzatyme]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses and both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

Guaranteed #1 Redzone target for the pats.

Guaranteed you're a Patriots fan and offer nothing but a biased opinion to this thread. We get it.

I'm a Colts fan and I agree that Gronk is the #1 redzone target for the Pats. What now?

 

[Detroit Revival]

Ghram. Less weapons around him. Team with a bad defense. More of a complete player. Younger.

I agree with Graham largely because he'll be more of a defined part of the offense while I think the Pats offense may flux a bit. Both have bad defenses a ond both are young but Gronk is 2 years younger (not sure why that's really relevant). I think they'll be very close though.

I don't think you can call Graham more of a complete player. Gronk is a great blocker and was almost a permanent fixture on the Pats offense.

 

[Banger]

Graham in all formats. 17 Tds is NOT happening again for Gronk.

if Gronk had ZERO TDs last year he would have finished the #3 TE, 6 pts behind Hernandez (and would've been #2 in PPR). I don't think it's a stretch to say that 17 TDs and an all time TE record won't be matched again but what is a reasonable number? He had 10 his rookie year and 17 his 2nd year. He would've been the #1 TE with 6 fewer TDs last year (11).

 

[Rick James]

Graham in all formats. 17 Tds is NOT happening again for Gronk.

if Gronk had ZERO TDs last year he would have finished the #3 TE, 6 pts behind Hernandez (and would've been #2 in PPR). I don't think it's a stretch to say that 17 TDs and an all time TE record won't be matched again but what is a reasonable number? He had 10 his rookie year and 17 his 2nd year. He would've been the #1 TE with 6 fewer TDs last year (11).

yeah but Graham caught 9 more balls and had less yardage, so...oh, wait

 

[Lehigh98]

I pass on both and pick up Hernandex a few rounds later at a value.

Not sure who he is but his name has an "x" in it which is pretty badass.

 

[montana_grizzly_bears]

Im with Lehigh on this one, unless your holding a gun to my head I'm taking Hernandez 4 rounds later. Your not going to miss out on much between him and the other 2. (if there are firearms involved than it would be gronk)

 

[Shawn]

Graham in redraft Hernandez in dynasty

 

[fruity pebbles]

Graham in redraft Hernandez in dynasty

You better be sure Hernandez is part of their longterm plans. We know gronk is.

 

[amicsta]

Gronk had 144 targets and 90 receptions and Brady threw 611 passes so 23.5% of them went Gronk's wayGraham had 167 targets and 99 receptions and Brees threw for 657 passes so 25.4% of the passes went Graham's wayLooking at those numbers I'm not sure if there's really anywhere for Graham to go target / reception wise and I don't really think Brees can throw many more passes. On the flip side I think it is possible that Brady throws more passes but his pie may shrink a bit % wise. As always with TEs it'll come down to the TDs. I said Graham earlier but as I think about it it's really a coin flip....

Gronk caught 90/124 not 144 thats 72.6%Graham caught 99/167 thats 59.3%from a percentage standpoint, it would seem graham still has some room to grow from a catch rate standpoint. That would lead to more receptions.

 

[amicsta]

Both players are elite talents, but it would seem to me that Graham has less question marks. Other than Payton not being there, there isnt anything in NO that worries me and that could end up being a non issue. In NE there are just so many weapons, i feel like theres alot more variability in Gronks possible outcomes

 

[Lash]

none of the above

draft Gates in the 5th and watch him put up 85% of Graham/Gronk stats

 

[Lash]

and even though they came in league same year, IIRC Graham is alot older than Gronk

(for dynasty purposes)

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

It's close close enough for me to say Graham in PPR leagues for TEs and Gronkowski in TE leagues that just reward yardage and Tds.

Both are awesome and both will have monster years again.

 

[SproutDaddy]

and even though they came in league same year, IIRC Graham is alot older than Gronk(for dynasty purposes)

That may be true, but Graham has only played football 3 years and doesn't have the back problems Gronk has.