Onside Kick after Safety in NFL? (1 Viewer)

[gradin123]

I haven't seen an onside kick after a safety in the NFL for a long time. I believe they are allowed as I vaguely remember a few from when I was a kid 25 years ago.

I really don't know what the rules are on them though and I can't find a definitive answer anywhere.

In the Cincy/Jets game after the Jets went up by 16 late after a safety I actually thought the Bengals might try one but of course that would involve good coaching which the Bengals don't have (side note: the Clock Mangement at the end of the first half by the Bengals was horrible as it was almost like they were going out of there way to leave the Jets with time left on the clock).

I know you can't use a tee after a safety and most teams punt . Can teams do an onside kick from a punt? And if so does it only have to travel 10 yards like a regular onside from a tee? If so, I really think you could catch teams off guard with a little pouch punt of about 20 yards(I think the receiving team can fair catch but that is only if they figure out what is going on). I think most players probably don't even know the rules.

Does anyone know the exact rules?

 

[aerolaw]

I haven't seen an onside kick after a safety in the NFL for a long time. I believe they are allowed as I vaguely remember a few from when I was a kid 25 years ago.

I really don't know what the rules are on them though and I can't find a definitive answer anywhere.

In the Cincy/Jets game after the Jets went up by 16 late after a safety I actually thought the Bengals might try one but of course that would involve good coaching which the Bengals don't have (side note: the Clock Mangement at the end of the first half by the Bengals was horrible as it was almost like they were going out of there way to leave the Jets with time left on the clock).

I know you can't use a tee after a safety and most teams punt . Can teams do an onside kick from a punt? And if so does it only have to travel 10 yards like a regular onside from a tee? If so, I really think you could catch teams off guard with a little pouch punt of about 20 yards(I think the receiving team can fair catch but that is only if they figure out what is going on). I think most players probably don't even know the rules.

Does anyone know the exact rules?

yes, absolutely you can onside "punt" after a safety. I remember back in about 1980 Shula and the Dolphins did it, i believe against the Bengals, and won the game because of it. I remember also the Bengals were totally befuddled and had no idea what had happened to them. I think i've seen it once or twice since then but dont remember exact details. Boy, we wish we could get a Shula reincarnation. I was thinking the same thing as you after the safety last night....good call

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Remember that as well, but haven't seen it since.

As for the rules - I believe they're exactly the same as a normal onside kick.

 

[JohnDoe]

I also remember the Dolphins doing that back around 83, IIRC. The rules are the same as for a normal onside kick. I don't know what the odds are that the kicking team would recover the kick, maybe the same as a normal onside kick if the opponent is not expecting it.

 

[3 hour lunch]

Wouldn't it be much easier to recover a punt 10 yards upfield, since you can kick it a mile in the air? I'd like to see someone try it, just to see what it looks like.

 

[DropKick]

Remember that as well, but haven't seen it since.As for the rules - I believe they're exactly the same as a normal onside kick.

Rules are the same - which includes interference on catching a ball in the air. So the technique might be different with a punted ball than one kicked from a tee. The ground and the shape of the ball are a big factor when kicked from a tee. I imagine the odds of recovery on a punted ball would be less with the biggest thing on your side being the element of surprise.ETA: One technique might be a low trajectory, intermediate distance punt; maybe 20-25 yards down field.

 

[DropKick]

Wouldn't it be much easier to recover a punt 10 yards upfield, since you can kick it a mile in the air? I'd like to see someone try it, just to see what it looks like.

Can't interfere with catching a ball in the air.

 

[Bayhawks]

Wouldn't it be much easier to recover a punt 10 yards upfield, since you can kick it a mile in the air? I'd like to see someone try it, just to see what it looks like.

Not really. On an onside kick, the kicking team can not interfere with the receiving team's ability to catch the kick. So if the ball is punted really high in the air, the receiving team has the right to catch the ball without being smashed into, as we are accustomed to seeing in onside kick situations. In order for the kicking team to be allowed to hit the players on the receiving team, the ball must hit the ground. That's why we almost always see the kicker trying to bounce the ball off the ground.Punting the ball high would negate that.

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

In the Cincy/Jets game after the Jets went up by 16 late after a safety I actually thought the Bengals might try one but of course that would involve good coaching which the Bengals don't have (side note: the Clock Mangement at the end of the first half by the Bengals was horrible as it was almost like they were going out of there way to leave the Jets with time left on the clock).

I was wondering if anyone else was thinking the same thing. IIRC, the Bengals get a first down around the 13yd line with a minute and 19 seconds to go and they rush to call a timeout. I thought at the time, why the heck are they calling a timeout? It makes no sense unless your goal is to make sure you leave some time for NY to come back and score. Just horrific clock management.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Cleveland did an onside safety kick in 2004. Here is the video:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2004091911/2...score#tab:watch

I believe Kellen Winslow was injured on the play as well, IIRC.

 

[massraider]

Remember that as well, but haven't seen it since.As for the rules - I believe they're exactly the same as a normal onside kick.

Rules are the same - which includes interference on catching a ball in the air. So the technique might be different with a punted ball than one kicked from a tee. The ground and the shape of the ball are a big factor when kicked from a tee. I imagine the odds of recovery on a punted ball would be less with the biggest thing on your side being the element of surprise.ETA: One technique might be a low trajectory, intermediate distance punt; maybe 20-25 yards down field.

Players can call a fair catch any time they want.

 

[Bri]

Wouldn't it be much easier to recover a punt 10 yards upfield, since you can kick it a mile in the air? I'd like to see someone try it, just to see what it looks like.

Not really. On an onside kick, the kicking team can not interfere with the receiving team's ability to catch the kick. So if the ball is punted really high in the air, the receiving team has the right to catch the ball without being smashed into, as we are accustomed to seeing in onside kick situations. In order for the kicking team to be allowed to hit the players on the receiving team, the ball must hit the ground. That's why we almost always see the kicker trying to bounce the ball off the ground.Punting the ball high would negate that.

It'd be a tough ball to catch though and one could surely figure this is a decent way to get the receiving team to touch it and cough it up. 11 guys ready to pounce on you, everyone watching with a long delay where he can second guess himself...there's a decent chance the catch is muffed. Like the previous poster, I'd like to see it.I've seen some guys messing around kicking the ball on its side to get it to spiral vertically. They are always goofing around and I never thought this might be useful in a game. I wonder if their goofy kick can go 10 yards. The goof of it is that it's next to impossible to catch with your hands but no worry with your body. Sadly none of this matters because today's punters don't have a clue what placement is-that's a lost art

 

[Bri]

Wasn't it the Bengals that had that guy Travis Dorsch that could both punt and kick well?

 

[cdwood]

Here are my thoughts and admittedly I have not read the NFL rulebook.

I believe that a team may not recover an onside kick after a safety because its written into the rulebook. If the team kicking away the ball following a safety had a choice they would do it kickoff style rather than punt style because they would be able to kick the ball further away and have a better chance at a touch back than they would by punting it. Given you see teams punting it after a safety, I believe the rulebook says that it must be punted rather than kicked off.

On kickoffs, either team can get the ball and obtain possession, the kicking team must kick it 10+ yards in order for them to be able to get possession, or after the receiving team has touched it. On punts, the receiving team can fair catch the ball and the kicking team can only get possession if the receiving team fumbles it.

Given the two above statements, if the kicking team could try an onside kick via punt, the receiving team could just call for a fair catch, and would be much closer to scoring than if the kicking team punted the ball deep.

 

[two_dollars]

Here are my thoughts and admittedly I have not read the NFL rulebook.I believe that a team may not recover an onside kick after a safety because its written into the rulebook. If the team kicking away the ball following a safety had a choice they would do it kickoff style rather than punt style because they would be able to kick the ball further away and have a better chance at a touch back than they would by punting it. Given you see teams punting it after a safety, I believe the rulebook says that it must be punted rather than kicked off.On kickoffs, either team can get the ball and obtain possession, the kicking team must kick it 10+ yards in order for them to be able to get possession, or after the receiving team has touched it. On punts, the receiving team can fair catch the ball and the kicking team can only get possession if the receiving team fumbles it.Given the two above statements, if the kicking team could try an onside kick via punt, the receiving team could just call for a fair catch, and would be much closer to scoring than if the kicking team punted the ball deep.

How are you going to call a fair catch when the ball is pooched forward 7 yards, no more than 4 feet high?

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

I say they just run up and do a rugby-style but really low and as hard as he can kick it. You know, try to bean one of the guys up front.

 

[cdwood]

Here are my thoughts and admittedly I have not read the NFL rulebook.I believe that a team may not recover an onside kick after a safety because its written into the rulebook. If the team kicking away the ball following a safety had a choice they would do it kickoff style rather than punt style because they would be able to kick the ball further away and have a better chance at a touch back than they would by punting it. Given you see teams punting it after a safety, I believe the rulebook says that it must be punted rather than kicked off.On kickoffs, either team can get the ball and obtain possession, the kicking team must kick it 10+ yards in order for them to be able to get possession, or after the receiving team has touched it. On punts, the receiving team can fair catch the ball and the kicking team can only get possession if the receiving team fumbles it.Given the two above statements, if the kicking team could try an onside kick via punt, the receiving team could just call for a fair catch, and would be much closer to scoring than if the kicking team punted the ball deep.

How are you going to call a fair catch when the ball is pooched forward 7 yards, no more than 4 feet high?

Don't need to call a fair catch, in fact, don't even need to touch the ball. The kicking team can only down the ball on a punt unless the receiving team touches it, receiving team still retains possession.

 

[two_dollars]

Here are my thoughts and admittedly I have not read the NFL rulebook.I believe that a team may not recover an onside kick after a safety because its written into the rulebook. If the team kicking away the ball following a safety had a choice they would do it kickoff style rather than punt style because they would be able to kick the ball further away and have a better chance at a touch back than they would by punting it. Given you see teams punting it after a safety, I believe the rulebook says that it must be punted rather than kicked off.On kickoffs, either team can get the ball and obtain possession, the kicking team must kick it 10+ yards in order for them to be able to get possession, or after the receiving team has touched it. On punts, the receiving team can fair catch the ball and the kicking team can only get possession if the receiving team fumbles it.Given the two above statements, if the kicking team could try an onside kick via punt, the receiving team could just call for a fair catch, and would be much closer to scoring than if the kicking team punted the ball deep.

How are you going to call a fair catch when the ball is pooched forward 7 yards, no more than 4 feet high?

Don't need to call a fair catch, in fact, don't even need to touch the ball. The kicking team can only down the ball on a punt unless the receiving team touches it, receiving team still retains possession.

No, it doesn't work that way for the kick after safety.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Here are my thoughts and admittedly I have not read the NFL rulebook.I believe that a team may not recover an onside kick after a safety because its written into the rulebook. If the team kicking away the ball following a safety had a choice they would do it kickoff style rather than punt style because they would be able to kick the ball further away and have a better chance at a touch back than they would by punting it. Given you see teams punting it after a safety, I believe the rulebook says that it must be punted rather than kicked off.On kickoffs, either team can get the ball and obtain possession, the kicking team must kick it 10+ yards in order for them to be able to get possession, or after the receiving team has touched it. On punts, the receiving team can fair catch the ball and the kicking team can only get possession if the receiving team fumbles it.Given the two above statements, if the kicking team could try an onside kick via punt, the receiving team could just call for a fair catch, and would be much closer to scoring than if the kicking team punted the ball deep.

You could have saved yourself a lot of time and embarrassment if you'd just clicked on my link.

 

[DiStefano]

I vaguely remember the Canton Bulldogs trying this in a game against the Chicago Bears on October 29th.

 

[Gadabout]

You certainly couldn't do it in any of the Tecmo Bowl games.

 

[Utter Chaos]

Cleveland did an onside safety kick in 2004. Here is the video:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2004091911/2...score#tab:watch

I believe Kellen Winslow was injured on the play as well, IIRC.

Yes, Winslow broke his leg on that play.

 

[Das Boot]

Cleveland did an onside safety kick in 2004. Here is the video:

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2004091911/2...score#tab:watch

I believe Kellen Winslow was injured on the play as well, IIRC.

Yes, Winslow broke his leg on that play.

Cool play, that ball took a perfect bounce for the Browns to recover.

 

[The Ref]

Unless I am having some sort of brain cramp, the kicking team can elect to punt OR use a tee after a safety, at least in the NCAA.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

Unless I am having some sort of brain cramp, the kicking team can elect to punt OR use a tee after a safety, at least in the NCAA.

A Safety Kick can be any of the following in the NFL:1. punt2. kickoff WITHOUT tee (tees are permitted in the NCAA but not the NFL)3. dropkickMost teams elect to punt because the other two options are going to result in a much shorter kick.

 

[TheWheel]

Umm if you had the choice of a tee why would you punt it?

 

[flc735]

its probably something that's just never practiced by the punter. not a good idea to do an onsides punt if the punter has never done it before.



"Unless I am having some sort of brain cramp, the kicking team can elect to punt OR use a tee after a safety, at least in the NCAA."

if you could use a tee after a safety, everyone would do it that way. having to punt rather than kick off is part of the 'penalty' of the safety. 2 points+defensive team gets the ball+it is punted to them rather than kicked off (field position advantage)

 

[Breesisdaman]

Its in Sean Paytons playbook but they havent got a safety yet to be able to try it out.

 

[HustleBlood]

maybe i am an idiot and prolly really doesnt matter as far as the season goes for the bengals but isnt that how they lost nugent??? torn acl on onside kick